Resistance Twitter 2.0

[d4m10n]

And you're siding with the platform that forces everyone, whether they follow Musk or not, to view his tweets?

Muted Musk the same week this started happening, haven't heard from him since. Maybe get your facts straight before putting fingertips to keys. Also, I'm not "siding" with either platform, just telling you what I've seen while using both of them.

 

[plague311]

Muted Musk the same week this started happening, haven't heard from him since. Maybe get your facts straight before putting fingertips to keys. Also, I'm not "siding" with either platform, just telling you what I've seen while using both of them.

Right, you had to take action to mute someone you weren't even following. It's like you're trying to prove my point for me.

I have my facts perfectly straight and your reply doesn't change anything I've said. You asked me to do some random experiment you made up as if it's evidence of something. Your experience on both of those apps, I promise you, is different from mine. Why? Because you've designed your own echo chamber through use. That's how the apps work.

Glad I could help.

 

[d4m10n]

You asked me to do some random experiment you made up as if it's evidence of something.

Feel free to make up your own. If we're going to say one of them is more of an echo chamber than the other, we'll need some way to test that out. So far I've seen much more left/liberal content on X than I've seen right/illiberal content on Bluesky.

Because you've designed your own echo chamber through use.

Funny how it doesn't even occur to you that someone might deliberately follow people with diverse perspectives.

 

[Thermal]

Funny how it doesn't even occur to you that someone might deliberately follow people with diverse perspectives.

@HitlerWasKindOfInteresting

 

[plague311]

Feel free to make up your own. If we're going to say one of them is more of an echo chamber than the other, we'll need some way to test that out. So far I've seen much more left/liberal content on X than I've seen right/illiberal content on Bluesky.

Which, again, isn't really evidence of anything considering content can be based on cookies from other sites, words you speak, google searches, etc.

My entire point is that there isn't any evidence to support your implication, and "making up" a nonsensical experiment doesn't do anything to help prove either way.

Funny how it doesn't even occur to you that someone might deliberately follow people with diverse perspectives.

We have different definitions of "funny" but ok. I follow all sorts of people I don't agree with for their perspective, but that would be another case of me not having evidence for it. I followed Trump throughout his entire presidency. I follow family who are Trump supporters to see what they're talking about and I come here and read posts from both sides all of the time.

So maybe "funny" wasn't the word you were looking for?

 

[Samson]

And what did you come up with? What is your point here?


Same questions apply to this as to the previous.


You want evidence that Bluesky has as much free speech as Twitter?

Ok, I can do that. In what way would you like it proven? What would you accept as evidence in this case? I just told you how Twitter flags even the term "cisgendered", shadowbans and tags the post. Journalists have been banned from Twitter, it tagged NPR as government funded, and the list goes on. Is that evidence?

Set the terms of what's evidence because I'm saying both platforms are on the same "free speech" level. Why do you think that's not the case? I'm seriously not interested in this petty back and forth bickering. If you have a point to make, just ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ say it. If you want a gotcha moment, feel free to engage someone else. I'm all out of ◊◊◊◊◊ to give.

I think you know why the term cisgendered is objected to by the owner of X.
Does he flag lots of terms or are you generalizing from the particular?
You can bet your boots Bluesky wallows in cisgender as a means to gently stigmatise the overwhelming majority of humans including same sex attracted.
Now I will check this theory.

 

[plague311]

I think you know why the term cisgendered is objected to by the owner of X.

You might not know but I don't give a ◊◊◊◊ what he objects to it. The literal subject is that Twitter isn't an echo chamber and Bluesky is and the argument is that people don't want to see information that offends them and that's why they go to Bluesky. Now you're literally saying that Musk is banning or regulating the term because it offends him. That's the mother ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ literal ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ opposite of ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ free ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ speech. Thank you, Samson, for finally saying the quiet part out loud. I was trying to get someone else to admit it, but you finally did it. Much appreciated.

Does he flag lots of terms or are you generalizing from the particular?

I don't give a rat's ass. I don't go on Twitter because it's a cesspool.

You can bet your boots Bluesky wallows in cisgender as a means to gently stigmatise the overwhelming majority of humans including same sex attracted.
Now I will check this theory.

Here, take my hanky to cry in. Throw it away when you're done.

 

[Samson]

You might not know but I don't give a ◊◊◊◊ what he objects to it. The literal subject is that Twitter isn't an echo chamber and Bluesky is and the argument is that people don't want to see information that offends them and that's why they go to Bluesky. Now you're literally saying that Musk is banning or regulating the term because it offends him. That's the mother ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ literal ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ opposite of ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ free ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ speech. Thank you, Samson, for finally saying the quiet part out loud. I was trying to get someone else to admit it, but you finally did it. Much appreciated.


I don't give a rat's ass. I don't go on Twitter because it's a cesspool.


Here, take my hanky to cry in. Throw it away when you're done.

There is a point to be made.
Where do you go to research a subject and have confidence that you can find the truth?
I find X is that place, even if the version of truth I settle on is wrong.
I also posit this forum is better for the purpose than Bluesky so far.

 

[d4m10n]

My entire point is that there isn't any evidence to support your implication, and "making up" a nonsensical experiment doesn't do anything to help prove either way.

I do not think it is at all nonsensical to search social media sites (any of them) for what kind of public posts are gaining traction on the kinds of issues which might indicate the direction of ideological skew in the content of the site. If the results lean heavily one way or another, that should tell you something about the content of the site itself and perhaps also the search algorithm.

 

[plague311]

There is a point to be made.
Where do you go to research a subject and have confidence that you can find the truth?

The day I use social media as a research tool is the day I have a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ tag on my toe.

I find X is that place, even if the version of truth I settle on is wrong.

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

I also posit this forum is better for the purpose than Bluesky so far.

Duly noted and dismissed.

 

[plague311]

I do not think it is at all nonsensical to search social media sites (any of them) for what kind of public posts are gaining traction on the kinds of issues which might indicate the direction of ideological skew in the content of the site. If the results lean heavily one way or another, that should tell you something about the content of the site itself and perhaps also the search algorithm.

Neat, we'll never agree and I'm done with this conversation with you. Have a good one.

 

[d4m10n]

@HitlerWasKindOfInteresting

Hard to tell whether Godwin's Law applies here.

 

[Samson]

The day I use social media as a research tool is the day I have a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ tag on my toe.

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

Duly noted and dismissed.

I should make clear it is the opinion pieces and news links etc, not the 140 character essays that I read for information leading to the cave high up in the mountain where sits the guru.

 

[d4m10n]

...the question arises, where will these folks post their resistance this time around?

Turns out if you google the site name, you get this list in the top results.

/thread

 

[arthwollipot]

You know what? I'm actually coming around on the "echo chamber" meme. I still think it's false, but it's fooling the dumbest people. So if you think it's true, then don't let me get in the way of your conclusion. Yup, it's an echo chamber. It's just the worst. Stay away. You would hate it.

It is, in fact, a dystopian woke-hole.

 

[jimbob]

Threads devoted to trans issues are tedious but that's not sufficient reason to bring the discussion into other threads.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jimbob

 

[Stout]

So, how's the resistance coming? Are we going to get any good riot footage? Lots of good tips here

 

[LiteBright]

Yeah I take back everything I said about Bluesky being better. The toxic nonsense is increasing daily. The fact that it comes from a different side of the political spectrum doesn't make it any more palatable.

A few days ago I replied to an article about macro-economics with a minor disagreement about its conclusion. It was respectfully worded and I didn't think my take was controversial in any way but I guess it fell slightly outside of the current extreme left-wing orthodoxy on the subject. Within an hour I had dozens of replies telling me I'm stupid, to die, kill myself and every other type of toxic sludge. Not a single disagreement with what I had said, just pure, unadulterated hatred.

Then this morning I noticed I have been blocked by hundreds of accounts out of the blue. I thought this was strange because I don't post much and when I do its usually about economics or sports. Digging into it, I found out why. Apparently the Economist had published an article about a patient suing a well known doctor after transitioning. Even though I have no interest in the subject and hadn't engaged with it whatsoever, I've been put on multiple block lists simply for following the Economist. Bluesky's moderation had also labelled the article and its author an "intolerant". So I went and read the article...there was nothing even slightly intolerant about it. It was a pretty straightforward accounting of the lawsuit in question. I mean seriously...the Economist? Intolerant? You have to be kidding me.

Its sad. It seems there is no space for open, respectful discussion anywhere anymore.

 

[Thermal]

The social media community slowly begins to discover that people are basically ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊.

 

[alfaniner]

Wouldn't it be ironic if everybody leaving had run to TikTok instead? (TikTok is very close to being banned in the US.)

 

[Ron Obvious]

BlueSky sounds like Atheism+ all over again.

 

[arthwollipot]

Yeah a blocklist that blocked everyone following a certain media company is considerably too far. But consider this. You have been blocked by people who think The Economist is extremist. Do you care, really?

 

[Orphia Nay]

Bluesky's moderation had also labelled the article and its author an "intolerant"

Really? Is that all they said?

 

[LiteBright]

Yeah a blocklist that blocked everyone following a certain media company is considerably too far. But consider this. You have been blocked by people who think The Economist is extremist. Do you care, really?

Yes and no. I think the only way to counter hate is with respectful disagreement and discussion. OTOH, people who are already that far gone down the rabbit hole are probably not worth the effort.

The upshot is that these hateful people will cloister themselves into their own little incubators of hate while the rest of the community moves on. They are not helping their cause or drawing anyone to it with their actions which is sad because although trans rights are not a major concern of mine, I do find myself mostly on the same side of the aisle as they are.

 

[LiteBright]

Really? Is that all they said?

Apparently they also briefly suspended the author and then reinstated his account and have now removed the intolerant labels after more consideration.

Bsky is at an inflection point I think. The major influx of new users has overwhelmed their moderation teams and being funded by angel investors with a mission to be a public interest company, they will have difficulty scaling moderation up fast enough. Hopefully they can figure it out on the fly before more considered voices like mine just decide to pack it in. It already seems like the momentum is seriously slowing down.

 

[d4m10n]

Bsky is at an inflection point I think. The major influx of new users has overwhelmed their moderation teams and being funded by angel investors with a mission to be a public interest company, they will have difficulty scaling moderation up fast enough.

Much of old guard don't want the influx of new users; they want to conserve the safe space they built.

https://bsky.app/profile/transcinderella.com/post/3lc7uzc4c3227

https://bsky.app/profile/thedoomshine.social/post/3lco2bguanc2e

https://bsky.app/profile/limeyemily.bsky.social/post/3lcpstvh37227

Hopefully they can figure it out on the fly before more considered voices like mine just decide to pack it in.

I'm good either way.

 

[LiteBright]

Much of old guard don't want the influx of new users; they want to conserve the safe space they built.

https://bsky.app/profile/transcinderella.com/post/3lc7uzc4c3227

https://bsky.app/profile/thedoomshine.social/post/3lco2bguanc2e

https://bsky.app/profile/limeyemily.bsky.social/post/3lcpstvh37227


I'm good either way.

Agreed. BSky needs to decide what it wants to be.

 

[LiteBright]

Well that escalated quickly. It seems like people simply copy and paste users from one block list to another, essentially weaponizing them. 24 hours later, I am now being blocked by over 1500 accounts and am on no less than 57 different block lists on Bsky.

Including, but not limited to...

• Dog Brains and Piss Drinkers - Don't think I qualify as either but opinions may vary
• Gamer Gaters - I'm aware of gamer gate but never posted about it or anything remotely related
• British Bigots - I am neither British nor a bigot
• Debate Me Bros - I have posted <20 times and never asked anyone to discuss or debate anything
• Bigoted Freaks and Centerists - Bigoted? No. Centerist? No. Freak? Debatable.
• Capitalism apologists - I have posted a few times regarding economic issues so maybe this is deserved? I don't know.
• Transphobes and Bigots - I am neither
• Twitter Trolls - not a very good troll with only 20 posts
• Hate Enablers
• Known Pedophiles

All this for *checks notes* following 'the Economist'.

Now its not that I mind people blocking me or curating their own feed in any way they please. In fact, I'd prefer that these hateful animals block me so I don't have to be subjected to their nonsense. But adding me to a list of "known pedophiles" simply for following a media organization that published an article they don't like? That's a bridge too far.

I've noticed several of the beat reporters I follow that are important to my work initially joined BSky but have since stopped posting or left altogether. I am going to join them. I'm not comfortable posting on a platform where I am also on a curated list of pedophiles. Thank goodness I didn't put anything personally identifying in my profile.

 

[arthwollipot]

From X to Bluesky: why are people fleeing Elon Musk’s ‘digital town square’?

Musk’s platform has lost 2.7 million active US users in two months, while its rival has gained 2.5 million

www.theguardian.com

 

[zooterkin]

Well that escalated quickly. It seems like people simply copy and paste users from one block list to another, essentially weaponizing them. 24 hours later, I am now being blocked by over 1500 accounts and am on no less than 57 different block lists on Bsky.

Including, but not limited to...

• Dog Brains and Piss Drinkers - Don't think I qualify as either but opinions may vary
• Gamer Gaters - I'm aware of gamer gate but never posted about it or anything remotely related
• British Bigots - I am neither British nor a bigot
• Debate Me Bros - I have posted <20 times and never asked anyone to discuss or debate anything
• Bigoted Freaks and Centerists - Bigoted? No. Centerist? No. Freak? Debatable.
• Capitalism apologists - I have posted a few times regarding economic issues so maybe this is deserved? I don't know.
• Transphobes and Bigots - I am neither
• Twitter Trolls - not a very good troll with only 20 posts
• Hate Enablers
• Known Pedophiles

All this for *checks notes* following 'the Economist'.

Now its not that I mind people blocking me or curating their own feed in any way they please. In fact, I'd prefer that these hateful animals block me so I don't have to be subjected to their nonsense. But adding me to a list of "known pedophiles" simply for following a media organization that published an article they don't like? That's a bridge too far.

I've noticed several of the beat reporters I follow that are important to my work initially joined BSky but have since stopped posting or left altogether. I am going to join them. I'm not comfortable posting on a platform where I am also on a curated list of pedophiles. Thank goodness I didn't put anything personally identifying in my profile.

How do you find out if you're on a blocklist? And how did you establish it was the following of the Economist that put you on these?

 

[LiteBright]

How do you find out if you're on a blocklist? And how did you establish it was the following of the Economist that put you on these?

There is a site called clearsky that you can use to see your block stats on Bsky. It shows you who is blocking you and the block lists you are part of.

I first noticed I was being blocked by a few dozen accounts which I found odd considering I had barely used the platform at that point. So I created a sock account to have a look at some of the accounts who were blocking me and there found a trans woman who was encouraging her followers to block followers of the economist and this writer, Jesse Singal who had angered the TRA community so much. At that point I was following the economist but not Singal himself so I deduced that it was that connection that was getting me blocked by some of her followers. She even created a specific block list for economist followers (since deleted) that was called something to the effect of 'capitalist pigs'.

Then I looked up this Singal person and made the mistake of following him on my main account to get a sense of what the controversy was all about. Following him opened the flood gates and as of this morning I am now blocked by over 2000 accounts and am on 67 block lists even though I stopped following him a few days later.

To be clear, I have never posted one single thing about the trans community, either pro or con. Every one of my posts on BSky has to do with either sports or economics. But according to the hate mob I am a pedophile who is responsible for multiple genocides. I've been told to kill myself numerous times. I'm really at a loss as to how these people think they are helping win hearts and minds to their cause with this sort of behaviour.

At this point, all I can do is laugh. As toxic as twitter can be, the abuse I have had hurled at me on BSky is orders of magnitude worse. I'm not going back to twitter because I can't stomach supporting Musk. As for BSky, I'm torn on whether to stay and try to help create a community that is free from this type of nonsense or just throw my hands up and leave.

 

[Lithrael]

I think you underestimate how casually people will create blocklists or name blocklists something atrocious. It's a problem if anyone takes the title of some rando's blocklist as anything but someone's expressive whim.

Being on 64 low-effort blocklists mostly means that some people make and collect blocklists as a hobby. What you really want is data on how many people USE these blocklists. ETA oh I missed where you said ~2000. That doesn't really seem like a crazy number considering how easy it is for bored, overengaged social media types to overindulge in plonk. It only takes one mid-popular blogger who hates the Economist's editorial and reccommends a blanket block list to their fans, to do that.

I DO think it's ◊◊◊◊◊◊ and unfortunate how common 'kill yourself' has been normalised over the last decade or so. Kids write it on custom mugs as a joke for their actual friends. It bothers me. People say it over things that my peers would just give a hearty 'f you' about. Yells at cloud

 

[arthwollipot]

I DO think it's ◊◊◊◊◊◊ and unfortunate how common 'kill yourself' has been normalised over the last decade or so. Kids write it on custom mugs as a joke for their actual friends. It bothers me. People say it over things that my peers would just give a hearty 'f you' about. Yells at cloud

Saying that is an instaban on this forum.

 

[Lithrael]

Yeah. It's probably my first genuine 'ok well if I'm out of touch for thinking that, so be it' old person dissonance. It's just not ok.

 

[LiteBright]

It's the same thing with death threats. They used to mean something but they are so commonplace for public figures they lose all meaning. I mean, who isn't getting death threats these days?

 

[TragicMonkey]

It's the same thing with death threats. They used to mean something but they are so commonplace for public figures they lose all meaning. I mean, who isn't getting death threats these days?

Ah, but then when someone follows through it fills the news for a whole week! Such a fuss. Babies.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

There is a site called clearsky that you can use to see your block stats on Bsky. It shows you who is blocking you and the block lists you are part of.

I first noticed I was being blocked by a few dozen accounts which I found odd considering I had barely used the platform at that point. So I created a sock account to have a look at some of the accounts who were blocking me and there found a trans woman who was encouraging her followers to block followers of the economist and this writer, Jesse Singal who had angered the TRA community so much. At that point I was following the economist but not Singal himself so I deduced that it was that connection that was getting me blocked by some of her followers. She even created a specific block list for economist followers (since deleted) that was called something to the effect of 'capitalist pigs'.

Then I looked up this Singal person and made the mistake of following him on my main account to get a sense of what the controversy was all about. Following him opened the flood gates and as of this morning I am now blocked by over 2000 accounts and am on 67 block lists even though I stopped following him a few days later.

To be clear, I have never posted one single thing about the trans community, either pro or con. Every one of my posts on BSky has to do with either sports or economics. But according to the hate mob I am a pedophile who is responsible for multiple genocides. I've been told to kill myself numerous times. I'm really at a loss as to how these people think they are helping win hearts and minds to their cause with this sort of behaviour.

At this point, all I can do is laugh. As toxic as twitter can be, the abuse I have had hurled at me on BSky is orders of magnitude worse. I'm not going back to twitter because I can't stomach supporting Musk. As for BSky, I'm torn on whether to stay and try to help create a community that is free from this type of nonsense or just throw my hands up and leave.

Okay, this reads like something out of an absurdist Jason Pargin novel. I only have your word for this, of course, but 2024 and certain people being what they are, it doesn't even sound surprising to me.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Also, that pedophile thing is so uncalled for. Some time ago the Norwegian branch of Save the Children held an event during Pride where they invited kids for a Pride event, with free snacks and beverages and a drag show. Some deranged far-righter decided that between the drag show and the free food and drinks, it must be a sinister LGBTQ+ ploy to groom the kids and posted some hysterical comments in a comments thread about how StC received literal death threats. I made the mistake of ridiculing him for this later on by calling him out on how he disregarded all the horrible things Drumpf and others did, but was terrified of LGBT events, and he very publicly (in the comments thread, where we post under full names) accused me of 'promoting sexualization of children'.

I wrote a reply where I patiently explained that I've of course never promoted sexualization of children and that the context was that I trolled him once for thinking Save the Children (of all people!) wanted to groom children, but that was actually genuinely scary. I mean, I haven't received threats or angry messages or anything, and I think 99% of people reading the exchange won't take his ramblings seriously (he even accused me of removing comments when moderators started culling his rants, as if I had some sort of magical hacking powers on that news website), but still, that was scary. Some people are just bat ◊◊◊◊ crazy.

Also, it's one of those things that I fear will make actual accusations of SA mean less. The more that word is used as a weaponized insult, the less people will take actual accusations seriously.

 

[plague311]

It's the same thing with death threats. They used to mean something but they are so commonplace for public figures they lose all meaning. I mean, who isn't getting death threats these days?

I decided to spend some time on bluesky this weekend while tending to a sick dog. I can tell you that your experience and mine are nothing alike. I saw several posts calling people "lib tards", swearing at them, etc. and it certainly wasn't one-sided. It's not like "the libs" were getting in jabs and the righties just had to sit back and accept it. There was mild trolling by both sides, but I saw plenty of anti-vax and pro-Trump stuff all over the site.

I didn't see any death threats anywhere at all. I saw a bunch of people implying that they wouldn't be losing sleep if others died, but I can absolutely say the experience you and I had on bluesky was very, very different. Polar opposite, in fact.

 

[Lithrael]

(Replying to Safe-Keeper)

Oh I agree completely with you there, but unfortunately that cat is well out of the bag. Between casual insult use, a nervous-horse-like prescision at identifying genuine threats, and the weird teen purity culture 3.0 that's going around now (16/18 is pedophilia! 20/23 is pedophilia! 40/50 is basically pedophilia too! Two people dating who LOOK like they could be siblings is incest! Writing smut about a character that was once a kid after he's grown up is pedophilia! I'm calling the cops on your fanfiction!) identifying and dealing with genuine abuse just gets more and more difficult. And splash damage to completely unrelated persons gets more likely.