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Question about the Microspheres in the 9/11 dust.

I just read, and for confirmation, reread a second time, the solid waste and garbage incineration of NYC trash streams article you cited in your OP.
Then I performed a control +F (find) operation with the following terms:
Weld, Welding, rods, dust, flux, fly ash, Micro-spheres, 9/11 and WTC---
And found nothing.
However, I am laughing but I don't quite understand why--
Help me out Crazy. Why did you post this link in a 9/11 conspiracies forum.
 
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Fonebone said:
I just read, and for confirmation, reread a second time, the solid waste and garbage incineration of NYC trash streams article you cited in your OP.
Then I performed a control +F (find) operation with the following terms:
Weld, Welding, rods, dust, flux, fly ash, Micro-spheres, 9/11 and WTC---
And found nothing.
However, I am laughing but I don't quite understand why--
Help me out Crazy. Why did you post this link in a 9/11 conspiracies forum.
Click to expand...

The Welding rods used in the world trade center were manufactured in Newyork and they used metal Microspheres from the Fly Ash from the waste incinerators in the welding rod Flux.
 
Fonebone said:
I just read, and for confirmation, reread a second time, the solid waste and garbage incineration of NYC trash streams article you cited in your OP.
Then I performed a control +F (find) operation with the following terms:
Weld, Welding, rods, dust, flux, fly ash, Micro-spheres, 9/11 and WTC---
And found nothing.
However, I am laughing but I don't quite understand why--
Help me out Crazy. Why did you post this link in a 9/11 conspiracies forum.
Click to expand...

The Microspheres Jones found exactly matched fly Ash from waste incinerator fly Ash, Fly Ash was used as the leading component of welding rod Flux since the 1950s.

https://iron-powder.com/iron-powder-for-welding-and-welding-electrodes/
 
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There's iron in plant matter. Plant matter turns into coal, so there's iron in coal. Plant matter makes up most of the mass of paper, so there's iron in paper. When plant matter or coal is burned, there's iron in the ash. The iron reduces (from hydrous iron oxides to magnetite) and condenses into microspheres in the flames, so that's what we find in the ash. The reduced iron in the microspheres has a much higher magnetic susceptibility than the original plant matter or coal, which is why archaeologists can use magnetometer scans to detect the locations of ancient hearths and ancient buildings that have burned, long after all visible traces of ash are gone.

Reuse of coal ash or incinerator ash in welding rods would be a source of higher concentrations of microspheres. But burning paper alone is sufficient to explain their presence.
 
You burn houshold trash - you get magnetic microspheres in the ash.
Same is true when you burn assorted human possessions - like, you know, contents of an office building.
Some researchers years ago demonstrated that you get such spheres when you incinerate old paint with flakes of the oxidized steel it was painted on.
In general, all sorts of urban, industrial or residential ashes contain such iron-rich spheres. It's generally a marker for the previous presence of fires.
 
Myriad said:
There's iron in plant matter. Plant matter turns into coal, so there's iron in coal. Plant matter makes up most of the mass of paper, so there's iron in paper. When plant matter or coal is burned, there's iron in the ash. The iron reduces (from hydrous iron oxides to magnetite) and condenses into microspheres in the flames, so that's what we find in the ash. The reduced iron in the microspheres has a much higher magnetic susceptibility than the original plant matter or coal, which is why archaeologists can use magnetometer scans to detect the locations of ancient hearths and ancient buildings that have burned, long after all visible traces of ash are gone.

Reuse of coal ash or incinerator ash in welding rods would be a source of higher concentrations of microspheres. But burning paper alone is sufficient to explain their presence.
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Yes but the Major source of Microspheres would have been the welding rod Flux and sparks from the steel that's why the concentration was higher than would be expectd, from fire alone.
 
Oystein said:
You burn houshold trash - you get magnetic microspheres in the ash.
Same is true when you burn assorted human possessions - like, you know, contents of an office building.
Some researchers years ago demonstrated that you get such spheres when you incinerate old paint with flakes of the oxidized steel it was painted on.
In general, all sorts of urban, industrial or residential ashes contain such iron-rich spheres. It's generally a marker for the previous presence of fires.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but the higher concentration of Microspheres would have been from the Welding rod Flux and sparks as the Microspheres from the actual fires would be produced at a lower rate, only produced where oxidation and temperature was high enough to produce them.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
Agreed, but the higher concentration of Microspheres would have been from the Welding rod Flux and sparks as the Microspheres from the actual fires would be produced at a lower rate, only produced where oxidation and temperature was high enough to produce them.
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What makes you think there is a higher concentration that expected?
 
theprestige said:
Twenty years ago. Even the truthers don't care anymore.
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Some people still debate Jesus Christ. 2000 years ago!

(There still exists a hard core of unreformable truthers who can't let go. They don't come here any longer. They are sheltering in closely guarded bubbles. Like on Facebook: The open 9/11T-groups are steadily decaying with a half life of something like 15 to 50 years, but some of the larger private groups recently have seen more slow growth than shrinkage)
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
The what should have been the Amount produced by the fires given the limited amount of Oxidation events in those fires produced a limited amount of Microspheres?
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I don't know, nor do I need to know in order to be justified in rejecting your bare assertion as such.

Do you recall Dave Roger's "Unevaluated Inequality Fallacy"?
It states that a claim of the form "A is greater than B" is not validly made out if you cannot provide justifiable values for both A and B, or at least a lower bound for A and an upper bound for B.

You claim:
"The amount found, in dust samples could not have been simply cause by fires, but thousands of welding rods were used in the buildings."

This is two unevaluated inequalities:
  1. A > B, where A is "The amount (of iron microspheres) found, in dust samples" and B is "the amount (of i.ms. in the dust) that could have been caused by the fires". But what is A, and what is B? Without giving us values for a lower bound for A and an upper bound for B, you cannot verify that your claim is true - it is not made out and thus rejected by me
  2. C > A, where C is the amount of microspheres released into the WTC dust by "thousands of welding rods [that] were used in the buildings". Even if we accept for a moment the claim of "thousands" of welding rods (does this imply "less than 10,000" or "less than 20,000"? For you could have said "tens of thousands", if the number was larger than 10,000 or 20,000), you have not made out an argument that gives you a lower bound for the amount of microspheres in the dust from that process. And A again would be the unevluated amount of microspheres found in the dust.

So please, do a little work here to justify your two claimed inequalities by calculating or at least estimating reasonable upper/lower bounds for the various oberved or possible amounts of microspheres in the dust that you allude to.
 
Oystein said:
I don't know, nor do I need to know in order to be justified in rejecting your bare assertion as such.

Do you recall Dave Roger's "Unevaluated Inequality Fallacy"?
It states that a claim of the form "A is greater than B" is not validly made out if you cannot provide justifiable values for both A and B, or at least a lower bound for A and an upper bound for B.

You claim:
"The amount found, in dust samples could not have been simply cause by fires, but thousands of welding rods were used in the buildings."

This is two unevaluated inequalities:
  1. A > B, where A is "The amount (of iron microspheres) found, in dust samples" and B is "the amount (of i.ms. in the dust) that could have been caused by the fires". But what is A, and what is B? Without giving us values for a lower bound for A and an upper bound for B, you cannot verify that your claim is true - it is not made out and thus rejected by me
  2. C > A, where C is the amount of microspheres released into the WTC dust by "thousands of welding rods [that] were used in the buildings". Even if we accept for a moment the claim of "thousands" of welding rods (does this imply "less than 10,000" or "less than 20,000"? For you could have said "tens of thousands", if the number was larger than 10,000 or 20,000), you have not made out an argument that gives you a lower bound for the amount of microspheres in the dust from that process. And A again would be the unevluated amount of microspheres found in the dust.

So please, do a little work here to justify your two claimed inequalities by calculating or at least estimating reasonable upper/lower bounds for the various oberved or possible amounts of microspheres in the dust that you allude to.
Click to expand...

In experiments the amount of Microspheres produced in a Chimney effect were limited by how strong the Oxidation was and how much heat produced.
There fore the Idea that the Chimney effect in the Twin Towers would not have been sufficient to create as large amount of Microspheres as seen in the Dust.
Fan Forced Oxidation greatly Increases the Amount of Microspheres produced, and since thousands of pounds of welding Rods were used in the Construction of the Towers and up to 1/3 The Flux on those welding Rods would have been Metal powder sponge Iron composed of Microspheres from waste Incinerator that used fan forced Oxidation, it is simply more likely that the Majority of the Microspheres are from the Flux on the Welding Rods.
Some Microspheres would have been produced in the fires, but given that the Reduction environment nessary to produce them would be rare, it is more likely they were produced in a fan forced Oxidation with carbon Monoxide at higher temperatures coming from Rust reduced via interactions with Carbon Monoxide.
 
Oystein said:
I don't know, nor do I need to know in order to be justified in rejecting your bare assertion as such.

Do you recall Dave Roger's "Unevaluated Inequality Fallacy"?
It states that a claim of the form "A is greater than B" is not validly made out if you cannot provide justifiable values for both A and B, or at least a lower bound for A and an upper bound for B.

You claim:
"The amount found, in dust samples could not have been simply cause by fires, but thousands of welding rods were used in the buildings."

This is two unevaluated inequalities:
  1. A > B, where A is "The amount (of iron microspheres) found, in dust samples" and B is "the amount (of i.ms. in the dust) that could have been caused by the fires". But what is A, and what is B? Without giving us values for a lower bound for A and an upper bound for B, you cannot verify that your claim is true - it is not made out and thus rejected by me
  2. C > A, where C is the amount of microspheres released into the WTC dust by "thousands of welding rods [that] were used in the buildings". Even if we accept for a moment the claim of "thousands" of welding rods (does this imply "less than 10,000" or "less than 20,000"? For you could have said "tens of thousands", if the number was larger than 10,000 or 20,000), you have not made out an argument that gives you a lower bound for the amount of microspheres in the dust from that process. And A again would be the unevluated amount of microspheres found in the dust.

So please, do a little work here to justify your two claimed inequalities by calculating or at least estimating reasonable upper/lower bounds for the various oberved or possible amounts of microspheres in the dust that you allude to.
Click to expand...

For an estimate on the Tonage of welding rods used, I would have to know, size of welds, and size of Rods used to weld them.
I came across little literature on that that could be verified.
If they used 1/4th 6010, then the tonnage of Rods to weld all the welds would like be around 12 ton of welding rods alone. That would be 24000 pounds of Steel Alloy rods covered in sponge Iron. Notice that's for all welds some welds would be pre welded before assembly, so that would reduce that amount probably in half. The only figures though I remember are for all welds.
 
I stop paying attention for 7 years and still none of yall have spend a few hundred dollars to do experiments on this stuff? Making new microspheres and sending them to a lab, no? Wouldn't just spending the money be more efficient? You should call for a new investigation just to justify your wasted time.
 
MicahJava said:
I stop paying attention for 7 years and still none of yall have spend a few hundred dollars to do experiments on this stuff? Making new microspheres and sending them to a lab, no? Wouldn't just spending the money be more efficient? You should call for a new investigation just to justify your wasted time.
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Teruo Nakamura, believed to be the last Japanese soldier to surrender, held out for 39 years after the war he believed himself to be fighting was already lost. Only another 17 years to go!

Dave
 
Dave Rogers said:
Teruo Nakamura, believed to be the last Japanese soldier to surrender, held out for 39 years after the war he believed himself to be fighting was already lost. Only another 17 years to go!

Dave
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I got kinda bored with arguing demolition stuff after Tony S started talking about his shill conspiracy and Plasco being a demolition. Let's just say that the demolition truthers, like Rocky, went the distance even if they didn't win. I'm really only into JFK now. Maybe some day I'll get back into OKC.
 
MicahJava said:
I stop paying attention for 7 years and still none of yall have spend a few hundred dollars to do experiments on this stuff? Making new microspheres and sending them to a lab, no? Wouldn't just spending the money be more efficient? You should call for a new investigation just to justify your wasted time.
Click to expand...

Why would anybody here want to spend any money at all on proving things that are not their claims, and that they don't believe?
If anyone in the "Truther" "movement" wasn't just after attention and a fat salary, they could have done this themselves. That they have not, speaks volumes.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
Why would anybody here want to spend any money at all on proving things that are not their claims, and that they don't believe?
If anyone in the "Truther" "movement" wasn't just after attention and a fat salary, they could have done this themselves. That they have not, speaks volumes.
Click to expand...

Y'all have been typing the same argument for years. You could've saved untold man hours from just ponying up a bit of money.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
The idea of spending my own money to support someone else's crackpot theory is not one I find appealing.
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The sane approach. That truthers want/expect others to do this work is just further evidence of their own insanity.

And of course most of them really know that if they actually did this work it would merely add to the evidence that makes them look like fools.
 
MicahJava said:
I got kinda bored with arguing demolition stuff after Tony S started talking about his shill conspiracy and Plasco being a demolition. Let's just say that the demolition truthers, like Rocky, went the distance even if they didn't win. I'm really only into JFK now. Maybe some day I'll get back into OKC.
Click to expand...

And you are still incorrect.
 
MicahJava said:
Y'all have been typing the same argument for years. You could've saved untold man hours from just ponying up a bit of money.
Click to expand...

If you ponied up to buy books instead of downloading pirated material from the torrents you might understand how the real world works. And a few people who posted on this board have spent money on research, which you'd know had you done do diligence, and read through all the 9-11 threads before posting. The results where predictable, the 9-11 nutjobs tripped over themselves while moving their goal-posts.

This board alone makes it clear that you can't change the opinions of the willingly stupid. The reason skeptics post on any of the topics here is to speak to the casual person who's come in here via a web search looking for non-BS answers to various subjects. And had you bothered to read through the old threads you'd find some high quality discussions and debates about structural engineering, and physics, and a bunch of other topics that did end with a few minds changing. Both sides showed the math, posted links to non-nutjob websites, and were countered with equally solid counter data on specific points.

You could learn a lot from the old 9-11 threads if learning was a personal objective.
 
MicahJava said:
Y'all have been typing the same argument for years. You could've saved untold man hours from just ponying up a bit of money.
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Why this proved the Microspheres were flyash back in 2007!

Tons of Fly Ash Microspheres from the welding zrods would have been left in the buildings after construction!

Twoofers need to stop being insane everything they found was there naturally, no reason for Debunkers to do anything Twoofers were just Nuts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/V9b2sU6WSii5stvH9
 
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