Psychics and Missing People

KellyJ said:
Our own meg is the guest writer on the blog series today.

You can read it here:
http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/04/4706-pmp-amazing-mom-who-knows-things.html

Thank you, meg, for sharing your story and doing a great job in putting a real life slant on things.

Kelly
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Maybe I should do this in a different thread.

I have to say, I'm so glad I found this forum last year. It's great to be able to "rub elbows" with so many articulate, intelligent people, like Meg, Kelly J, Fowlsound, Ed (where is Ed anyway?), Randfan.....you get the idea...too many too mention. It would be easier to name the not so intelligent folks, but I don't need to go there. Anyway, I'm learning alot, and hopefully building my skills for debate.
 
KellyJ said:
Thank you for contacting him and giving him the blog link. I just don't see the reason for even bringing it up. I hope the reporter will open to understanding what impact this has. I know you did a fine job in acting as a voice of reason amidst this insanity.
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The reason for bringing it up: it attracts viewers, both those who believe and those who don't. I am reminded of a scene from the Howard Stern movie, Private Parts.

Researcher: The average radio listener listens for eighteen minutes. The average Howard Stern fan listens for - are you ready for this? - an hour and twenty minutes.
Pig Vomit: How can that be?
Researcher: Answer most commonly given? "I want to see what he'll say next."
Pig Vomit: Okay, fine. But what about the people who hate Stern?
Researcher: Good point. The average Stern hater listens for two and a half hours a day.
Pig Vomit: But... if they hate him, why do they listen?
Researcher: Most common answer? "I want to see what he'll say next."
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I was out most of the day as our family here in town asked me to be with them while America's Most Wanted filmed the story of their missing daughter, Amber Harris. It should air in May.

Gr8wight said:
I have opened an email correspondence with the reporter who did the story. He basically said that unless the psychics are directly responsible for finding the missing college student, they will not be mentioned again. I outlined my concerns about that, and pointed him to your blog series, Kelly. I'll let you know if anything further comes of it.
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So much for their word that they would not mention the psychics again. The very next day, they do, and for no real reason that I can see:

http://www.nbc4i.com/news/8512983/detail.html

Mr. Stick said:
I've just read Marie Parker's story about her missing friend Audrey http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/03/33106-pmp-sylvia-and-friends-part-ii.html and I watched the clip with Sylvia Brown. I've never seen her "live" before, but I had a pretty good impression of her voice thanks to Randi's commentaries.
That clip made me sick! :mad:
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Marie should have, but did not mention that when she asked Sylvia about the flowery hat, it was all made up. Sylvia said yes to the flowery hat, of course.

elaine said:
I have to say, I'm so glad I found this forum last year. It's great to be able to "rub elbows" with so many articulate, intelligent people, like Meg, Fowlsound, Ed (where is Ed anyway?), Randfan.....you get the idea...too many too mention. It would be easier to name the not so intelligent folks, but I don't need to go there. Anyway, I'm learning alot, and hopefully building my skills for debate.
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I have no idea who Ed is, but I concur on the rest. This has been a great learning experience.

Delphi, you know the saying: "Hell hath no fury like a woman's scorn." That's our meg. :)
 
Hah! Well, perhaps I am just a scorny mom :) I think that after reading that whole fabulous blog of Kelly's, there might be a lot more scornful, angry, feisty people in the world. I hope so. After reading the previous blog articles, I knew how I was feeling about it, and I guess I just wanted to say, "Are you starting to feel angry? Because, you're not alone, there. I'm feeling really angry about this, too."

I think 'angry' is the appropriate emotional response to those articles.

And I think getting people mad about it is just what I want to do. Angry people write letters to the media. Angry people make phone calls to complain. Angry people boycott stuff. Angry people sue. Angry people make hucksters, scam artists, and charlatans pack up and move on.

I hope every one of Kelly's readers gets really, deeply, completely p*ssed off.


Meg
 
Well, I've written to NBCi now, too. Here's what I sent:

To
Craig Robinson - President and General Manager
Stan Sanders - Vice President, News
Jean Nemeti - Director of Community Relations and Programming

Dear NBC4i News Managers,

I was very upset to read your April 5th story headlined "Psychics Search Apartment of Missing OSU Student." I think if you were concerned with accurately portraying the news, a better headline might have been "Hucksters Con Family of Missing OSU Student" or "Scam Artists Victimize Traumatized Father".

No "psychic" EVER has provided useful information that led to finding a missing person. No "psychic" has ever provided useful information that led to a crime being solved. Your station portraying these con artists as providing some kind of useful service, that might actually help find the missing person, was irresponsible. When a phone scam operator practises his art, do you report "Elderly Citizen has Nice Chat With Man Who Says He's From the Bank"?

I encourage you to get your facts straight. Kelly Jolkowski, mother of missing son Jason Jolkowski (http://www.projectjason.org) has started a blog about these "psychic" predators. I encourage you and your staff to read it. http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/03/30606-pmp-introduction-to-psychics-and.html

The heart wrenching stories there by families of missing people should open your eyes to what these "psychics" are really trying to do, which is take advantage of grieving people for their own personal gain.

Your own reporting on "psychics" searching Brian Shaffer's apartment has just added to the publicity and fame of two of these scammers. I'm sure both of them will now assure people that they've "assisted the police on a missing person's case", and that it was reported on NBC4i, allowing people to assume that means they have been checked out and are the "real deal".

These "psychics" do harm. They take money, energy, and time away from families searching for their missing loved ones. Money, energy and time that is better spent doing the activities that might actually find the missing person. They make up stories and cause untold grief, pain and stress to these families.

I hope you will think twice before reporting about this type of activity again.

Personally, I wish you would do some investigative reporting about these scam artists, and put THAT on your news. Expose these frauds for what they are.

Sincerely
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Meg
 
meg said:
Well, I've written to NBCi now, too. Here's what I sent:
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Awesome letter, Meg. I await their response. I'm still po'd that they lied, as they told gr8 that they would not mention it again, and then they did the very next day! (See previous posts with links)

Gotta love angry moms when angry for good reason!
 
Elaine:

Thanks for posting a blog comment to Jennster. Her comment bothered me, and I wanted to respond to it, but I didn't want to alienate her either. Your comment was perfect.
 
Thank you.

I just couldn't let the comment go. The commenter does remind me of a very well intentioned friend I used to have. But you know what they say about intentions.....
 
For the folks who like to write letters, I have two cases here.

Leslie Adams: family has been suspicious of ex-boyfriend from the beginning. He is now in jail for stalking her, but it sounds like he is not confessing, at least not yet. Psychics were brought in before the boyfriend was jailed. I let the family know about the series, but there was no response. I have not seen any follow-up on this.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/6597944/detail.html

Case #2, Sueann Ray. She is deceased, murdered by her ex-husband, just as the family suspected all along. I know the dog searcher personally, and she told me that they came within a 100 ft (or yards...I can't recall) Psychics come on the scene and claim to have led police to near the location of the body. They're probably doing some retrofitting now. I haven't seen any news follow-ups stating that the psychics did indeed pinpoint the location. The family was not quiet in their belief that the ex-husband did something to Sueann, so this was public knowledge. I believe the Ray family has a large, wooded, acreage, so it's not a surprise that Ray put her there, private property, after all.

http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=75340

http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=75813

I wonder what the police there have to say about it? Do they admit that the psychic did lead them to near the body vs what the searcher found? Why did the media still give the psychics credibility?

BTW, the only reason the dog searcher had to quit is because it was on private property, and they had been threatened to stay off. They had no choice but to end the search.
 
KellyJ said:
Poetic justice alert!

I just received a call from the Fxxxxxxxx Scholarship folks in Washington, DC. They read yesterday's blog entry about "The Guarantee?" and they are very upset.

They are not upset with me, but with Diego and what he did. At the time, University Police only gave him a slap on the hands, but the Fxxxxxx folks are ticked off and want to take it further. They said his priveliges/Visa could be revoked, depending upon what the university decides to do.

I xxx'd out part of the scholarship name, since they do searches on it daily, and I don't want them poking around. I offered to delete their name from the blog, but they were ok with it staying.

I think they were pretty shocked to have uncovered this. I told them frankly that I thought the U should confiscate his PC and make sure he did not attempt it again or actually scam someone. I hope they do that. I did ask them to let me know what happens.

So, after all this time, perhaps justice will be served.

Thanks for listening.
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Just a brief update about this:

I called the woman from the scholarship, as I had not heard from her. She said they passed along all of the info to the university, including the blog entry. Since Diego is no longer on the scholarship, they will not be privy to what the university decides to do about him. She did tell me one very interesting thing though. She said that the woman at the university whom she gave all of the info to, acted as if she wasn't surprised at all, leading her to believe he's done this on more than one occasion.
 
KellyJ said:
Awesome letter, Meg. I await their response. I'm still po'd that they lied, as they told gr8 that they would not mention it again, and then they did the very next day! (See previous posts with links)

Gotta love angry moms when angry for good reason!
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To be fair, the reporter I communicated with was the one who did the television segment on the psychics. When he said they would not be mentioned again, I'm sure he meant by him, on the television news. I'm sure he has no hand in what appears on the website.


Edited to add: I replied to the reporter in question thusly.
Mr Bowersock
Thank you for your reply. From the point of view of someone who is skeptical of psychics and their alleged abilities, one of the things that bothers me about the way they are seen in the media is exactly what you describe. The general public sees a news article stating that psychics have been employed to help with a missing persons investigation. There is then no further mention of the psychics regardless of the outcome of the case.
The fact is, no psychic has ever provided information leading directly to the recovery of a missing person, alive or dead. Unfortunately, the general public watching your news broadcast never hears that information. They are left with the impression that employing a psychic in this type of investigation is a reasonable thing to do. It is not.
At best, the psychics will have no effect on the case. At worst, they will cause investigators to spend valuable time running down leads that will never pan out. Ask any missing persons expert. Time is one thing that cannot be spared for spurious investigations. The longer a person remains missing, the lower the odds that they will ever be found alive. And the odds go down fast. As a proponent of skepticism and critical thinking, I feel that it is very important for the public to hear that the psychics' assistance never leads to a successful resolution of a missing persons case.
For more information on psychic detectives, and the impact they can have on the lives of families of missing persons I recommend you read the series of blog articles called Psychics and Missing Persons, at the blog Project Jason: Voice For The Missing.
Thank you once again for your response, and for considering my comments.

Paul Little
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I have not, to date, received a further reply.
 
Gr8wight said:
To be fair, the reporter I communicated with was the one who did the television segment on the psychics. When he said they would not be mentioned again, I'm sure he meant by him, on the television news. I'm sure he has no hand in what appears on the website.


Edited to add: I replied to the reporter in question thusly.


I have not, to date, received a further reply.
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Thanks, Paul for the efforts. I know it may not be that reporter's fault that psychics were again mentioned the very next day, but it is clear that station personnel are not communicating about this. My hope is that someone listens enough to bring it to management's attention. Only with their cooperation will we NOT see more of this.

You do an excellent job of communicating and not appearing like the stereotypical cynical skeptic.
 
Gr8wight said:
Thank you, Kelly. It is an illusion I continue to try and cultivate. :)

It's true.
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Don't worry...your secret's safe with me.

I noticed that another TV station in the city of the same missing person did a report on him, and they did NOT mention psychics.

It's true. :)
 
Here's a cool comment which was left on today's blog story, which is a pretty powerful one, BTW:

"As someone who used to believe in psychics, I can tell you I will never again listen to anything they say."
 
Hey, I'm back and just as pissed as ever after catching up on my reading in this topic.

Quantimbioelectromagnetism (sic). Holy, holy, holy. Can't even spell it right! Every couple hours since I read that post, I'm spontaneously laughing.

"Quantumbioelectromagentism." BWA-HA-HA-HA! My wife probably was wondering why I was laughing in the shower this morning.

Just posted a note to Jennster. Might be a little harsh. Oh, well. People need a clue. It's time to be a little harsh. Fight back. The older I get, the more I relate to De_Bunk's policy. ;)

I'm babbling.

Anyway, meg gets a big kiss for this:

meg said:
Well, I've written to NBCi now, too. Here's what I sent:

I was very upset to read your April 5th story headlined "Psychics Search Apartment of Missing OSU Student." I think if you were concerned with accurately portraying the news, a better headline might have been "Hucksters Con Family of Missing OSU Student" or "Scam Artists Victimize Traumatized Father".

No "psychic" EVER has provided useful information that led to finding a missing person. No "psychic" has ever provided useful information that led to a crime being solved. Your station portraying these con artists as providing some kind of useful service, that might actually help find the missing person, was irresponsible. When a phone scam operator practises his art, do you report "Elderly Citizen has Nice Chat With Man Who Says He's From the Bank"?
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Meg
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Heh. And Meg tells me she doesn't feel as articulate as me. Shoooooot. You win, Meg. You win.

If anybody needs a good swift kick in the crotch, it is the media. Well done!
 
Luke! I missed you. I was telling myself last night that If I did not hear from you by this evening, I was going to call out the dogs. Good to see you.

I saw your note to Jennster. Yes, it may have been a bit harsh, but perhaps that what she and other like-minded people need. I was glad that you and Elaine responded to her so I didn't have to be the "bad guy" in this case.

Are you still working on the dialog? This would be a part 2 for Dawn's story, which was posted yesterday.

Readership has been climbing steadily. People are reading and learning.

Thanks for your support.

Kelly
 
Hmm. Was it cabby or meg who said she didn't feel articulate? I forget now. In either case, they both beat "I'm getting a R sound. And I see a body of water and some trees". :D

KellyJ said:
Luke! I missed you. I was telling myself last night that If I did not hear from you by this evening, I was going to call out the dogs. Good to see you.

I saw your note to Jennster. Yes, it may have been a bit harsh, but perhaps that what she and other like-minded people need. I was glad that you and Elaine responded to her so I didn't have to be the "bad guy" in this case.

Are you still working on the dialog? This would be a part 2 for Dawn's story, which was posted yesterday.

Readership has been climbing steadily. People are reading and learning.

Thanks for your support.

Kelly
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Got called out of the country on business. I was not in a situation where I could work on the dialog. And I wasn't sure whether meg needs my help on that or not.
 
KellyJ said:
...I saw your note to Jennster. Yes, it may have been a bit harsh, but perhaps that what she and other like-minded people need. I was glad that you and Elaine responded to her so I didn't have to be the "bad guy" in this case.
Kelly
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Hey...we gotch yo back :-)
 
oops. I think I got confused as to who was doing what. Luke, do you want to and have time to work on the dialog? If so, go for it. If you don't, I can probably get to it later in the week.

And a big kiss right back atcha. :)
Meg
 
Okay. I've just read Dawn's story, and re-read the dialog that Dawn gave to Kelly, which was then sent to me.

My blood is now in a state of boiling not often seen this far from the sun. I will do this story with the dialog. It will be my pleasure.

First, I have to calm down.
 
Kelly, since the series is nearing the end, I was wondering if you would also like some along the lines of "closing thoughts" for the conclusion. I have a lot of things on my mind about this subject I would like to put down on paper and send to you.

You ever notice that psychics tend to be dumber than a bag of hammers?
 
Luke T. said:
Okay. I've just read Dawn's story, and re-read the dialog that Dawn gave to Kelly, which was then sent to me.

My blood is now in a state of boiling not often seen this far from the sun. I will do this story with the dialog. It will be my pleasure.

First, I have to calm down.
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Multi-quote doesn't seem to be working....

This dialog is from the remote viewing wherein the psychics said Lori was in the cabin. The one psychic then insisted she was right, even though she clearly wasn't. Talk about delusions!
 
Luke T. said:
Kelly, since the series is nearing the end, I was wondering if you would also like some along the lines of "closing thoughts" for the conclusion. I have a lot of things on my mind about this subject I would like to put down on paper and send to you.

You ever notice that psychics tend to be dumber than a bag of hammers?
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Could use the bag of hammers to knock some sense into them?

Yes, I would be happy to have some closing comments from you. Because of the nature of my work and my workload, I don't do much ahead of time. Some call that "fly by the seat of your pants". I have an idea of how I want to close it, which involves something one of the "big names" sent me that I thought was quite profound. I'll add my own summary, of course.

I am open to suggestions and another editorial of sorts from contributors.

Thank you.

Kelly
 
An online acquantance told me that she heard Carla Baron used to be in soft porn movies before she went psycho, er, psychic. Anyone heard that one?

Dawn (from yesterday's blog story) left a nice comment on the blog. She said:

"RSLancastr,

Your very welcome. My only hope is that people will learn from my mistakes and that possibly these so called psychics will understand the emotional trauma they cause. It’s tremendously difficult to ignore someone who calls you and states that they “know” where your loved one is or what’s happened to them. Psychics use tactics that are cruel and manipulative yet they claim that they only want to help. It is my belief that they only want attention or your money. If a psychic makes contact with you hang up the phone or tell them to solve the crime themselves and then they could REALLY be a hero (and then hang up).

After reading what "Anonymous" wrote I feel it was well worth it."

I think she's lurking here, as she said she was pleased to see the help and support I am receiving from the JREF members.

Hi Dawn!:sewelcome:
 
Thankfully I have not had to deal with this kind of trauma and then on top of that the associated charlatans whom no doubt would have me immensly angry.

Is there a link to Dawns story, I have missed it I think.
 
FYI: The psychicpredators.com site should be going up next week sometime, probably more towards the latter part.
 
KellyJ said:
An online acquantance told me that she heard Carla Baron used to be in soft porn movies before she went psycho, er, psychic. Anyone heard that one?
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There are two Carla Barons listed in IMDB. There are no biographical details, but you may remember one from such films as "Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-O-Rama," and the other from the TV show "Dead Famous," where she played "Psychic Investigator."

No photo, no other details like I said. I wouldn't be surprised to find it was the same person.

Ain't allowed to post links, so

www . imdb.com /find?s= all&q=carla+baron
 
I came across this post from a family member of a missing person. It was on a little-used private board on which I posted the link just in case. I'm glad I did. We've started a dialog now.

"Kelly,Last night I poured through the info that you had offered. I had no more posted something regarding Sylvia Browne,in a positive light, that I started reading what you had offered. While I have just the amount of desperation to entertain the psychic route,I must admit that I felt myself rethinking it all. I was quite impressed with that information.I am not finished with it yet,and I am going to read and print it all,but I would like to thank you. I have some serious thinking to do."

Yay!

W, I'll look at your link in a sec....
 
Waddauno said:
There are two Carla Barons listed in IMDB. There are no biographical details, but you may remember one from such films as "Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-O-Rama," and the other from the TV show "Dead Famous," where she played "Psychic Investigator."

No photo, no other details like I said. I wouldn't be surprised to find it was the same person.

Ain't allowed to post links, so

www.imdb.com/find?s=all&q=carla+baron
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The person who told me is pretty reliable as far as info goes. I'm not planning to do anything public with the info, but I would use it if I had to as a trump card if some family member is stuck on using her.

I was just curious iof anyone else had heard that.

Thanks for the look-up!
 
KellyJ said:
I came across this post from a family member of a missing person. It was on a little-used private board on which I posted the link just in case. I'm glad I did. We've started a dialog now.

"Kelly,Last night I poured through the info that you had offered. I had no more posted something regarding Sylvia Browne,in a positive light, that I started reading what you had offered. While I have just the amount of desperation to entertain the psychic route,I must admit that I felt myself rethinking it all. I was quite impressed with that information.I am not finished with it yet,and I am going to read and print it all,but I would like to thank you. I have some serious thinking to do."

Yay!

W, I'll look at your link in a sec....
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I can't believe how much you've accomplished in such a short time, Kelly! Every time I stop by this thread, you and the others have in some way changed the real world for the better. I wish I could do more than cheerlead, but dammit I'll cheerlead my butt off!

You should be proud. You're routing the vultures! :bananalama:
 
This is one of the longer serious threads I have read. No serious derailments or the like. I think KellyJ needs to get an award or some such thing for this thread and the other things she has done.

Well she can have a big pat on the back from me.
 
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