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Project 2025

The Great Zaganza said:
That's just laziness.
People can just pull themselves up by their bootstraps by getting themselves born into a rich family.
Republican donors managed to do it, so everything else could, too, if they just made the effort.
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Pulling yourself up by your boot straps is a perfect thing for the conservatives to tell people. It sounds good, but when you think about it, it is impossible. A boot strap is used to pull boots on. So when they say people need to pull themselves up by their boot straps, I think they are also giving a wink and a nudge.
 
I heard 'pulling yourself up by your bootstraps' was originally a term for something that was completely impossible. Then it got perverted into the weird saying it is today, a kind of rejection of responsibility. We don't need to help those people, they have a responsibility to magically save themselves.
 
maybe pull yourself up by your own bootstraps was the yesteryear equivalent of get ******. so in that sense it still means that.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
Yeah, 'virtue signalling' is just an empty word they like to throw at people they don't like. It's only useful as a litmus test to show that the person you're discussing with isn't arguing in good faith and isn't worth replying to. It's also projection, of course, how often don't you see trumpkins and other far-righters reply with something meaningless just to show the world (and each other) that they are there?
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The Trumpian virtue signalling is everywhere. Of course the 6th of January was a great day, they are all hostages, the election was stolen. If you don't do it you are out.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
I heard 'pulling yourself up by your bootstraps' was originally a term for something that was completely impossible. Then it got perverted into the weird saying it is today, a kind of rejection of responsibility. We don't need to help those people, they have a responsibility to magically save themselves.
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This is true.
 
Stacyhs said:
I think a lot of it is virtue signaling. When push comes to shove, a lot of these public anti-prochoice people would be rushing to a doctor for an abortion when it affects them personally.
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You mean like this guy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZcFdst_SF0
"-- Anti-abortion Colorado Republican Richard Holtorf is confronted about his own girlfriend's abortion by Kyle Clark, and it does not go well"
 
Safe-Keeper said:
I heard 'pulling yourself up by your bootstraps' was originally a term for something that was completely impossible. Then it got perverted into the weird saying it is today, a kind of rejection of responsibility. We don't need to help those people, they have a responsibility to magically save themselves.
Click to expand...

A term used by those who also believe in trickle-down economics.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
I heard 'pulling yourself up by your bootstraps' was originally a term for something that was completely impossible. Then it got perverted into the weird saying it is today, a kind of rejection of responsibility. We don't need to help those people, they have a responsibility to magically save themselves.
Click to expand...

IIRC Heinlein had a major part in that meaning change.
 
For as long as I can recall, "pulling up by the bootstraps" has been an expression for the extraordinary, since it's obviously ironic hyperbole. It's another way of saying "working from nothing." One would apply it as praise to someone who did the seemingly impossible.

Like the "bad apples" example, it's interesting, in an odd sort of way, to see how it has morphed into meaning essentially its opposite.

Of course it also requires bootstraps in the first place. I'm a little reminded of the old Soviet joke. Message is sent to administration, "we are starving, send food." Reply is "tighten belts." Response is "send belts."
 
The leader of Project 2025 is stepping down from his role amid a power struggle over potential government staffing if*Donald Trump*wins in November.

Paul Dans, the director of the project housed at the Heritage Foundation, “will be departing the team”, according to a statement to the Guardian from*Kevin Roberts, the president of Heritage Foundation.

The departure could indicate the project’s work is ending or at least will not be taking such a public role in the lead-up to the November election, though the policy ideas outlined in its extensive conservative roadmap remain public. “Project 2025” has become a shorthand term for its manifesto of conservative policies, but the project includes multiple pillars designed to influence a conservative president.

Dans is leaving “after pressure from Trump campaign leadership” and an “ongoing power rift over staffing control” for a second Trump administration, Roger Sollenberger, a reporter for the Daily Beast, wrote on Twitter/X.

Dans, a*Trump loyalist, worked in personnel-related roles in the first Trump administration, including as chief of staff at the office of personnel management.
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The power struggles in the court of King Trump have already taken a victim.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...025-director-trump?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
 
..
The right-wing policy operation that became a rallying cry for Democrats and a nuisance for Republican nominee Donald Trump is trying to escape the public spotlight and repair relations with Trump’s campaign.
Project 2025, a collaboration led by the Heritage Foundation among more than 110 conservative groups to develop a movement consensus blueprint for the next Republican administration, is winding down its policy operations, and its director, former Trump administration personnel official Paul Dans, is departing. The Heritage Foundation also recently distributed new talking points encouraging participants to emphasize that the project does not speak for Trump.
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They made the common mistake of not realising that at heart Trump is a narcissistic populist. He has no actual ideals or policies. Just words he thinks you want to hear.
 
Trump just threw the project under the wagon, again.
I 100% agree with the columinist who said the whole thing was stupid. If you are going to do something like Project 2025, you plan it in secret, trying to keep it from the public. You don't shout what you are up to in public, in front of God and everybody.
 
Let's assume Harris wins.

Does it mean that from now on, every election against the GOP will be another election against such a project?

The problem is that the cat is out of the bag. Plans have been made. There is not really a coming back from, is it? How do we know they won't try that **** as soon as they have won the next election? And why were they even so 'stupid' to release their plans to the public in advance? It's great to have such an elaborate plan with 900 pages. But why didn't they kept it secret until they have the power?

Project 2025 basically is the manual (for anyone at power) to turn the USA into fascism. Not just some out of world fantasy, but an actual playbook for the steps to 'legally' end democracy in the US.

Is it good that it is out there (so everyone knows what to look for, in case it is going to happen), or is bad that it's out there?
 
We have had these kind of plans from Republican aligned organizations for many Election cycles; the main differences are the explicitness, the strong association of the Candidate with the Authors and the level of Public Awareness.

I predict that After Trump, it will take another failed demagogue or two before the GOP returns to being a democratic party again.
 
carlosy said:
Let's assume Harris wins.

Does it mean that from now on, every election against the GOP will be another election against such a project?

The problem is that the cat is out of the bag. Plans have been made. There is not really a coming back from, is it? How do we know they won't try that **** as soon as they have won the next election? And why were they even so 'stupid' to release their plans to the public in advance? It's great to have such an elaborate plan with 900 pages. But why didn't they kept it secret until they have the power?

Project 2025 basically is the manual (for anyone at power) to turn the USA into fascism. Not just some out of world fantasy, but an actual playbook for the steps to 'legally' end democracy in the US.

Is it good that it is out there (so everyone knows what to look for, in case it is going to happen), or is bad that it's out there?
Click to expand...

It brings to mind a saying Ukraine has repeated several times since they were invaded by Russia.
"It's lucky for us that they are so very stupid."
I'm thinking it was a simple case of overconfidence that Trump was a shoe in so might as well brag about the plan to make him King.
 
carlosy said:
Let's assume Harris wins.

Does it mean that from now on, every election against the GOP will be another election against such a project?

The problem is that the cat is out of the bag. Plans have been made. There is not really a coming back from, is it? How do we know they won't try that **** as soon as they have won the next election? And why were they even so 'stupid' to release their plans to the public in advance? It's great to have such an elaborate plan with 900 pages. But why didn't they kept it secret until they have the power?

Project 2025 basically is the manual (for anyone at power) to turn the USA into fascism. Not just some out of world fantasy, but an actual playbook for the steps to 'legally' end democracy in the US.

Is it good that it is out there (so everyone knows what to look for, in case it is going to happen), or is bad that it's out there?
Click to expand...

Hard to say. Palace intrigue and the thirst for power is a fairly normal state. Democracy is hard. Selflessness is much rarer than selfishness.
 
Actually, it was critically important for Trump that Project 2025 was published:
the guy who thinks it's called "2 Corinthians" and doesn't know which way of a bible is up hardly has the Cred to turn the US into the Most Christian Empire.
His views on Abortion are all over the place, his complete disregard for the sanctity of marriage, and his clear disinterest in seeing anything through that doesn't benefit him means that his supporters knew that what he would need would be people who not only know what to do, but would also be available to do it.

Contrary to what people might think, I doubt Project 2025 has cost Trump any voters.
 
carlosy said:
Let's assume Harris wins.

Does it mean that from now on, every election against the GOP will be another election against such a project?

The problem is that the cat is out of the bag. Plans have been made. There is not really a coming back from, is it? How do we know they won't try that **** as soon as they have won the next election? And why were they even so 'stupid' to release their plans to the public in advance? It's great to have such an elaborate plan with 900 pages. But why didn't they kept it secret until they have the power?

Project 2025 basically is the manual (for anyone at power) to turn the USA into fascism. Not just some out of world fantasy, but an actual playbook for the steps to 'legally' end democracy in the US.

Is it good that it is out there (so everyone knows what to look for, in case it is going to happen), or is bad that it's out there?
Click to expand...
On the one hand, Trump is a unique figure and things won't be the same when he's gone. On the other hand, the movement he brought together (which had been forming for decades) created critical mass and looks like it's going away no time soon.

History won't repeat, but it will rhyme.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Actually, it was critically important for Trump that Project 2025 was published:
the guy who thinks it's called "2 Corinthians" and doesn't know which way of a bible is up hardly has the Cred to turn the US into the Most Christian Empire.
His views on Abortion are all over the place, his complete disregard for the sanctity of marriage, and his clear disinterest in seeing anything through that doesn't benefit him means that his supporters knew that what he would need would be people who not only know what to do, but would also be available to do it.

Contrary to what people might think, I doubt Project 2025 has cost Trump any voters.
Click to expand...

I don't think Trump has ever had more than 40% support. But they tend to show up. This may not cost him votes. But it could very well lead to more people voting for Harris.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Actually, it was critically important for Trump that Project 2025 was published:
the guy who thinks it's called "2 Corinthians" and doesn't know which way of a bible is up hardly has the Cred to turn the US into the Most Christian Empire.
His views on Abortion are all over the place, his complete disregard for the sanctity of marriage, and his clear disinterest in seeing anything through that doesn't benefit him means that his supporters knew that what he would need would be people who not only know what to do, but would also be available to do it.

Contrary to what people might think, I doubt Project 2025 has cost Trump any voters.
Click to expand...
Indeed. It's telling that the one thing trump cared the least about during his presidency, the confirmation and appointing of judges, was the one that is seen as his greatest achievement in office. The effects of those hard right judges is already being seen right now, and they're going to be on the benches for decades.
 
KDLarsen said:
Indeed. It's telling that the one thing trump cared the least about during his presidency, the confirmation and appointing of judges, was the one that is seen as his greatest achievement in office. The effects of those hard right judges is already being seen right now, and they're going to be on the benches for decades.
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That goes to show that Trump either cared a lot more than he let on to. (Which I doubt.)
OR
That his Presidency has always been just vanity and he has just been a useful tool to a powerful cabal of elites.
 
acbytesla said:
That goes to show that Trump either cared a lot more than he let on to. (Which I doubt.)
OR
That his Presidency has always been just vanity and he has just been a useful tool to a powerful cabal of elites.
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Yes, goddamn Trump for handing over the US government to a powerful cabal of elites. If only we could just let independent crusaders like Hillary Clinton, and establishment outsiders like Joe Biden, run the country. /s
 
theprestige said:
Yes, goddamn Trump for handing over the US government to a powerful cabal of elites. If only we could just let independent crusaders like Hillary Clinton, and establishment outsiders like Joe Biden, run the country. /s
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You misinterpreted. The 'handing over' isn't active--Trump would never cede power to anyone, he is Supreme Leader in his own mind. It is handing over in the passive sense, similar to being manipulated by smarter demagogues like Putin. He will willingly 'hand over' anything so long as it assuages his fragile ego.
 
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