Phobias passed down through evolution

[Undesired Walrus]

Two questions: What is evolutionary reason (if any) we as humans more afraid of creepy crawl animals, rats, mice etc than other types of animals?

If there is an evolutionary reason behind that (they are more likely to infect us, they are more abundant, we are less likely to see them coming so have to be extra aware) how does that 'trait' get passed on through our DNA? Where is 'small little animals are dangerous, respond accordingly' within us?


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[Elaedith]

Two questions: What is evolutionary reason (if any) we as humans more afraid of creepy crawl animals, rats, mice etc than other types of animals?

If there is an evolutionary reason behind that (they are more likely to infect us, they are more abundant, we are less likely to see them coming so have to be extra aware) how does that 'trait' get passed on through our DNA? Where is 'small little animals are dangerous, respond accordingly' within us?


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Some people have phobias of larger animals. It is plausible that there are evolutionary reasons for fears of smaller animals being common. Emotion changes attention to create an automatic and unconsciouis bias towards rapid detection of threatening stimuli. This would be more useful in evolutionary terms for stimuli that are more difficult to detect, and that might otherwide not be consciously perceived as threatening (due to small size). It could occur through effects on networks linking emotion with attention in the brain. Those with a predisposition to readily acquire an attentional bias and associated fear response to these stimuli would have a survival advantage. However, the specific mechanism underlying fear learning are debated.
There isn't any evidence as far as I know that people are born with phobias, but there is evidence that fear associations are more readily acquired to some stimuli than others.

 

[fuelair]

https://www.verywell.com/spider-fears-or-arachnophobia-2671679

Over twenty five years ago when Desmond Morris was a big deal in the human things and development field, another (female) author wrote a book presenting the human developments along seashores (African as that was where people were at the time)as the possible basis for same as crabs and related (looked like big spiders) did tend toward pinching and eating if lost or strayed small children became prey by drowning or lack of care.

 

[fuelair]

1967 , The Naked Ape............was the book. I have that and the response book but I have well over 11000 books and most are in three storage sheds, not on shelving due to space requirements vs space availability!

 

[marplots]

These just-so stories suffer from an extreme lack of "prove it."

 

[fuelair]

And, here is the answer book: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/jul/29/elaine-morgan!!!!! And her obituary...

 

[fuelair]

These just-so stories suffer from an extreme lack of "prove it."

Depending on which, of course they do. Absent a time machine/other method of time travel they cannot be proven. Many things suffer from this unfortunate problem. The explanations (and they vary) are simply the best we can do from the information we have that can be partially or fully explained by what we do know.

 

[fuelair]

Oh, that is why there was an answer book to Morris and it made quite as much sense though the two did not agree. And, of course, both may well be wrong or right depending on where and when and how pre-people/later people lived and learned.

 

[Venom]

To your first question:

Maybe cause small or creepy animals are many times poisonous/venomous

And if a particular animal isn't, they are creepy anyway because they look like the dangerous animal...

My educated guess

 

[marplots]

To your first question:

Maybe cause small or creepy animals are many times poisonous/venomous

And if a particular animal isn't, they are creepy anyway because they look like the dangerous animal...

My educated guess

That's a good reason not to eat plants too.

Did anyone notice how many mammals survive by eating bugs/worms/snakes?

"Tell us another story, Pops. Maybe the one about how the lion got its mane."

 

[MikeG]

Two questions: What is evolutionary reason (if any) we as humans more afraid of creepy crawl animals, rats, mice etc than other types of animals?

If there is an evolutionary reason behind that (they are more likely to infect us, they are more abundant, we are less likely to see them coming so have to be extra aware) how does that 'trait' get passed on through our DNA? Where is 'small little animals are dangerous, respond accordingly' within us?

Ancestors who were afraid of, and kept away from, spiders, snakes and rats must have had a higher survival rate than those that didn't if the behaviour is genetic. Well, in a snake- and venomous spider-infested environment, there's every chance that those who avoided those hazards would have had a higher survival rate. Same with rats and mice, which carry diseases.

However, "memes" also survive and mutate. That's all religion is, ultimately. The meme that creepy-crawlies are yucky is passed on as learned behaviour from generation to generation. If you nip it in the bud when your kids are young, they stop the silly squealing when they find a bug, and can actually show curiosity instead

 

[Elaedith]

That's a good reason not to eat plants too.

Did anyone notice how many mammals survive by eating bugs/worms/snakes?

"Tell us another story, Pops. Maybe the one about how the lion got its mane."

Yes, people other than yourself have noticed that mammals eat bugs, worms and snakes. Humans and other species readily acquire aversions to foods that are commonly eaten. There is evidence that biological preparedness contributes to food aversions as well as to phobias.

 

[Darat]

Two questions: What is evolutionary reason (if any) we as humans more afraid of creepy crawl animals, rats, mice etc than other types of animals?

If there is an evolutionary reason behind that (they are more likely to infect us, they are more abundant, we are less likely to see them coming so have to be extra aware) how does that 'trait' get passed on through our DNA? Where is 'small little animals are dangerous, respond accordingly' within us?


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Is there evidence that these are ancient phobias? Humans have lived indeed cohabited with creepy crawlies and rats and the like for a long, long time. Reading histories it would seem our only ancient concerns would be them competing for food with us. And if you spend any time in developing countries you will see very little if any evidence of these phobias being inherent.

 

[Elaedith]

Two questions: What is evolutionary reason (if any) we as humans more afraid of creepy crawl animals, rats, mice etc than other types of animals?

If there is an evolutionary reason behind that (they are more likely to infect us, they are more abundant, we are less likely to see them coming so have to be extra aware) how does that 'trait' get passed on through our DNA? Where is 'small little animals are dangerous, respond accordingly' within us?


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This article contains an explanation and review of evidence for the preparedness theory of phobias (from page 488).

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/46c9/9f0a5935572dd8b19936afef8faa8de25fbf.pdf

 

[alfaniner]

I remember the first few nights after I got my ball python snake for a pet. I was nervous about having it in the same room where I slept, and I didn't really understand why.

 

[Donn]

I think marplots has it. These evolutionary explanations are easy to invent and they feel satisfying, but does that make them fact?

The barrier to explanation in other domains is higher. Why not here too?

 

[marplots]

Yes, people other than yourself have noticed that mammals eat bugs, worms and snakes. Humans and other species readily acquire aversions to foods that are commonly eaten. There is evidence that biological preparedness contributes to food aversions as well as to phobias.

This is true, but not the same as the original claim. The ability/capacity to adopt a behavior under certain environmental conditions (I was taught something) is different than having an evolutionary drive/propensity for that same behavior. It is the difference between instinct and learning.

Food aversion is not the same as the blink reflex, if for no other reason than the complexity of the behavior. And, of course, there are borderline cases where it's hard to pin down how much is innate and how much learned through experience - a la the visual cliff.

 

[Elaedith]

This is true, but not the same as the original claim. The ability/capacity to adopt a behavior under certain environmental conditions (I was taught something) is different than having an evolutionary drive/propensity for that same behavior. It is the difference between instinct and learning.

Food aversion is not the same as the blink reflex, if for no other reason than the complexity of the behavior. And, of course, there are borderline cases where it's hard to pin down how much is innate and how much learned through experience - a la the visual cliff.

What original claim? Nobody has claimed that phobias are due to drives or instincts. The evolutionary preparedness model is about biological constraints on conditioning, and is very similar to innate constraints on the acquisition of food aversion.

 

[marplots]

What original claim? Nobody has claimed that phobias are due to drives or instincts. The evolutionary preparedness model is about biological constraints on conditioning, and is very similar to innate constraints on the acquisition of food aversion.

My mistake then.
I learned some group theory while attempting linear algebra.
Thank you, evolution!

Here's the OP:
Two questions: What is evolutionary reason (if any) we as humans more afraid of creepy crawl animals, rats, mice etc than other types of animals?

If there is an evolutionary reason behind that (they are more likely to infect us, they are more abundant, we are less likely to see them coming so have to be extra aware) how does that 'trait' get passed on through our DNA? Where is 'small little animals are dangerous, respond accordingly' within us?

 

[Elaedith]

My mistake then.
I learned some group theory while attempting linear algebra.
Thank you, evolution!

Here's the OP:
Two questions: What is evolutionary reason (if any) we as humans more afraid of creepy crawl animals, rats, mice etc than other types of animals?

If there is an evolutionary reason behind that (they are more likely to infect us, they are more abundant, we are less likely to see them coming so have to be extra aware) how does that 'trait' get passed on through our DNA? Where is 'small little animals are dangerous, respond accordingly' within us?

A question is not a claim. The question does make the assumption that there is an evolutionary explanation but does not specify the nature of that explanation. There is in fact ample evidence of innate constraints on fear learning which pre-dispose primates, including humans, to acquire some types of fears more readily than others. This research has been applied to phobias specifically, and some of it has been applied specifically to common phobias for animals such as snakes.

 

[marplots]

A question is not a claim. The question does make the assumption that there is an evolutionary explanation but does not specify the nature of that explanation. There is in fact ample evidence of innate constraints on fear learning which pre-dispose primates, including humans, to acquire some types of fears more readily than others. This research has been applied to phobias specifically, and some of it has been applied specifically to common phobias for animals such as snakes.

That's interesting. My understanding is there is a huge gap between observing a behavior in humans and saying there is an underlying evolutionary mechanism for promoting that behavior.

I would be willing to take a look at the fossil evidence though.

 

[fuelair]

That's interesting. My understanding is there is a huge gap between observing a behavior in humans and saying there is an underlying evolutionary mechanism for promoting that behavior.

I would be willing to take a look at the fossil evidence though.

That's the problem.

 

[fuelair]

That's the problem.

noting that nothing of fossil evidence is quite unlikely to tell us though patterns and/or pattern changes due to danger assessments as such are not fossilizable, only theorized.

 

[Jodie]

I think they look at related species to draw conclusions. Apes are terrified of snakes.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/oct/28/science/la-sci-sn-snake-fear-monkeys-20131026

 

[Cat Not Included]

Ancestors who were afraid of, and kept away from, spiders, snakes and rats must have had a higher survival rate than those that didn't if the behaviour is genetic. Well, in a snake- and venomous spider-infested environment, there's every chance that those who avoided those hazards would have had a higher survival rate. Same with rats and mice, which carry diseases.

However, "memes" also survive and mutate. That's all religion is, ultimately. The meme that creepy-crawlies are yucky is passed on as learned behaviour from generation to generation. If you nip it in the bud when your kids are young, they stop the silly squealing when they find a bug, and can actually show curiosity instead

I recall an artile about an old superstition about how a spiderweb on a baby's cradle was good luck. Some researchers got curious and examined this, and determined that a web on a cradle really is good for the baby - the spider catches potentially disease spreading flying insects. Very important when growing up in a pre-vaccination and modern medicine age.

Overall, spiders are not very dangerous at all to humans, but are generally a big help with catching insects that ARE dangerous.

I have no idea, but is fear of spiders actually relatively new? I've got no clue what ancient peoples thought of spiders, but most myths I know of about spiders focus on the spider as a weaver, not as a "icky crawly scary thing".

 

[fuelair]

I recall an artile about an old superstition about how a spiderweb on a baby's cradle was good luck. Some researchers got curious and examined this, and determined that a web on a cradle really is good for the baby - the spider catches potentially disease spreading flying insects. Very important when growing up in a pre-vaccination and modern medicine age.

Overall, spiders are not very dangerous at all to humans, but are generally a big help with catching insects that ARE dangerous.

I have no idea, but is fear of spiders actually relatively new? I've got no clue what ancient peoples thought of spiders, but most myths I know of about spiders focus on the spider as a weaver, not as a "icky crawly scary thing".

This and related are/is why I have noted that there is no way to prove a connection between specific fears/phobias and aspects of evolutionary development. Thus lots of speculating but ultimately no proof without temporal displacement devices/procedures/capabilities!!

And the math says no (except the new guy who claims his math suggests a possibility but no actual procedure/design so far)......

 

[Roboramma]

I would be willing to take a look at the fossil evidence though.

Would you be willing to look at other sorts of evidence? I suspect that they will be more forthcoming than fossil evidence considering we're discussing the evolution of behaviour, which, though not impossible, is hard to see in fossils.

 

[marplots]

Would you be willing to look at other sorts of evidence? I suspect that they will be more forthcoming than fossil evidence considering we're discussing the evolution of behaviour, which, though not impossible, is hard to see in fossils.

Of course. What do you suggest? Gene sequences would be good.

The difficulty will be in connecting a loosely defined, extant behavior to a "before and after" condition demonstrating not only a survival advantage, but one in a context set against other possibilities/counterfactuals we do not see.

Are you thinking something along the lines of the "warrior gene" linked to aggression? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_A#Aggression_and_the_.22Warrior_gene.22

 

[Venom]

This is the big hole in evolutionary psychology I guess

 

[lomiller]

Go back ~7 million years and "the monster under the bed" would have been a very real possibility.