Nearing completion of degree; What did I learn if anything?

[jaydeehess]

I'm tutoring students in freshman algebra. Their midterm review packet asked students the answer to 5 times pi. They were convinced that writing "5 pi" was unacceptable - that their teacher wanted a decimal answer.

This bothers me, but I didn't want to contradict her. Other teachers covering the same material were looking for "5 pi."

In manufacturing, irrational numbers will be truncated, but in this unit students were also being asked to identify numbers as rational vs. irrational and it seemed they were getting a mixed message.

.

My example above was just that, one example.

Another common , nonunderstanable use of calculator would be something like;
16x10⁹/4x10³
Without a calculator , one who understands simple math can see the answer is 4 million( 4x10⁶ )
One can also see the number of keystrokes a calculator would require, and thus the increased opportunity for finger generated mistakes. Understanding the math involved here also makes it obvious that when someone writes the answers down as , for instance 5.2 x10⁷ you know damn well they used a calculator and what button mistakes they made. My co-students were shocked and amazed when I not only told them their answer was wrong but exactly what they did wrong.
Fact is the instructor said, several times, that he would devise question that simply did not require a calculator in most instances, that he was fine with multiples of pi as well.

In circuit design if the desired value of a resistor is calculated to be 400pi then a 1200 ohm resistor will suffice and if one needed more precision then add a 56 ohm resistor in series. One, he said, will not find a 1256 ohm resistor on the shelf. Rounding to the nearest standard value will likely be good enough.

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

A calculator would work for that too though with a high degree of accuracy, especially if math isn't your thing. I think the idea of college algebra is that it is supposed to be a hard weed out class and the straightforward exponent problem is unlikely to be found on a test. My understanding is, at the college I am going to all the problems on the final are hard and not enough time is given to complete them all. I guess I will find out next semester.

 

[DuvalHMFIC]

A calculator would work for that too though with a high degree of accuracy, especially if math isn't your thing. I think the idea of college algebra is that it is supposed to be a hard weed out class and the straightforward exponent problem is unlikely to be found on a test. My understanding is, at the college I am going to all the problems on the final are hard and not enough time is given to complete them all. I guess I will find out next semester.

I'm really not trying to be a jerk here, but you're trolling right? Weed out class implies that it gets people to drop out or change majors. Find me a major that doesn't require college algebra...even music majors have to take college algebra (no offense to music majors). MOST majors are now requiring up to calc 1, even if it's just business calculus. Which, to my understanding, is just calc without the trigonometry. (Makes sense, you're never going to use a sine or cosine in business.)

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

The graduation rate in a community college is quite low. Low 20% for the general population and about 8% for low income students so no I am not trolling, no. I would say the passing rate for college algrebra is probably quite low let me go check. Heres a community college that said the passing rate for algebra in their college is less than 50%; counting those that actually got a grade.

http://www.austincc.edu/powens/advise.htm

Not to be rude but you kind of fell into a common skeptical area of weakness in that you are claiming knowledge in areas based on your personal experience at the school you went to. I.e., You are not a weed so you probably don't know much about the weeds in your class. However, you have probably have heard teachers make comments about people who are struggling and suggesting that they talk in almost every undergraduate class; those are the weeds. I have been going to community college cumulatively for like 9 years over my lifetime so have what could almost be considered work level experience in the area of community college life.

Community colleges are relatively cheap and easy to get into but if you are looking for low student ratio and watered down classes and you have money, your best bet is a private college. I have heard of quite of few people try their luck at community colleges only to transfer to a 4 year college when it didn't work out. I guess

I haven't proved the weed out thing really. I am not sure a weed out class is necessarily all bad. , though Some teachers try to make their classes too hard and people on financial aid don't have the luxury of withdrawing from a class. That might partly explain the low graduation rates for low income people.

I got the 8% graduation rate for low income students statistic from a billboard near my house. I assume its accurate.

If you go to a private college there may be classes that you can use in place of algebra that are easier from what I have heard.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

2. I go to a highly rated community colleg/

Concealing the degree program and college isn't helpful to the alleged request for help, but is instead suggestive of trolling.

4. A description of college algrebra is as follows...

Remedial math. Why do you believe that you can snow us by pretending remedial high school subjects at a community college are more rigorous?

When remedial high school math is the top level of rigor in a "college" degree, the degree is a remedial high school diploma.

5. Considering I did not get much math in high school, math is hard for me.

It's someone else's fault, right. Remember back in high school where you tried to register for math classes, but the school had a pride of lions tearing the children apart who tried to register?

7. If your 5 year old is excel certified I am very proud for you. Its not really a hard class though.

"Excel Certified" is an example of pretentious jargon that fluff degrees are infamous for. Employers can see through this.

Tantamount to "pencil certified". You can do some things with a pencil. But not algebra. I am not "excel certified" nor was it a certification at any of the universities I taught at. I required its use in most of my classes, but it was not a prerequisite because it is so easy to learn.

I do not say my five year old is "excel certified" just as I do not say he is "pencil certified".

He can do fourth grade math with a pencil and with excel. He can't do regression analysis or database management. He can't compose balance sheets, income statements, statements of retained earnings, etc. Those would be college-level skills an employer would be willing to pay for.

8. Probably some people get enough algebra in high school but there are plenty of people who, either didn't get it, or have been away from school for awhile and forgotten it. You know the xxxx-ups

That doesn't magically transform high school remedial classes into something higher.

The attitude matches the fluff pretentiousness - lazy, conning and dim witted frankly. How can you approach an employer with this kind of attitude? One expects the exercise video to have no exercise, but to call editing video clips "Exercise Certification".

Changing your attitude is obviously the problem. Changing to a person who just wants to do a good job at whatever he is tackling.

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

I have a AS degree in Jewelry Manufacturing and Repair and hopefully will have a AS degree in Computer Technology. I did take a temp job in the sanitation department of a food processing plant recently that lasted about a day. The regular staff were paid a fairly high wage there to work the 3rd shift. I was trained immediately in one of the positions the first day and was told that all I had to do was apply and I would be hired at 16$ an hour. Unfortunately it turned out to conflict with my wife's hours so I couldn't take it.

I am guessing that because Jewelry Manufacturing and Repair has the word "Manufacturing" in it, and Computer Technology has the word "Technology" in it. its possible that I could get fast tracked into a management job in a manufacturing plant. So my degrees might be of some worth something after all in the right environment. I really don't think I am actually going to be a straight IT person. At least, I haven't had any response at all with my resumes in that area.

In response to your above post, it makes no sense to me at all. Could you summarize it for me in a short paragraph what you are trying to express?

I expected some pity or ridicule for having gone to community college for 9 years. Ok let me explain what I mean by pity or ridicule.

1. You can pity me for wasting 9+ years of my life to get a degree(s) that won't lead to a degreed position.

2. You can ridicule me for wasting 9+ years of my life to get a degree(s) that won't lead to any position that requires a degree.

I am sure you could find out the name of my college with a google search of my screen name and college, but does it really have any relevance to the conversation I am having about my mad/sad life?

You are possibly right that a excel certification might not be needed but, if you have to learn excel anyway, you might as well get the piece of paper that says you know. There are a number of people in class making a good living doing excel right now but want the paper which is free if you take the class.

 

[DuvalHMFIC]

What information and/or advice were you hoping to glean from this thread, MinnesotaBrant?

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

I was just looking for some brainstorming and it looks like I got some.

A skeptic might say I was asking you to do all the work, but really, I put in a couple suggestions too.

A number of you hit the nail right on the head in that I am pretty more interested in spending every day with my kid rather than working. Some read into that and said wow, "your a genius for being able to spend the whole day with your kid without having to work." Though, I am not sure if they were being sarcastic or what.

So how many CEO's read this thread? Just curious.

At any rate I will have to take a job or two starting 2017 which, conveniently, is when my kid starts kindergarten.

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

The only thing I could add to this is to say my last boss, who had a fairly recent 4 year degree in accounting, had no idea how to use autosum in a spreadsheet. He just typed the numbers into the spreadsheet and used a calculator to total them. I was never that bad but some of us non 1 percenters probably could use an excel certification class. This is an advanced class. I took another, harder class that included word, excel, and access a couple semesters ago. I think these classes are necessary. I can remember writing papers and pounding my head in trying to get the footnotes right in word. In both word and excel it is possible to bug it and lose data if you move things around too much trying to figure out what I was supposed to do. This happened in my last homework and I got a D on it. The undo only goes so far in some cases.

 

[arthwollipot]

I had to explain to someone once how to use copy and paste.

 

[DarthFishy]

Respectful snip...
Regex away repetitive bits of code
Respectful snip...

Script out complex tasks

Respectful snip...
Autohotkey away repetitive clicks and keystrokes
Respectful snip...

These are all excellent suggestions (especially the scripting of complex/repetitive tasks), though I suspect they might be more useful for someone whose already has a specific workflow in place (i.e. already working), rather than somebody who still has to complete college level computing courses.

On the other hand, understanding the old programming mantra "A lazy coder, is a good coder" might help the OP.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

The only thing I could add to this is to say my last boss, who had a fairly recent 4 year degree in accounting, had no idea how to use autosum in a spreadsheet. He just typed the numbers into the spreadsheet and used a calculator to total them. I was never that bad but some of us non 1 percenters...

What's this supposed to mean? That 99% of the people are like you? Au contraire.

We have an anecdote putting down a person with a four year accounting degree, I see. This anecdote does not make remedial high school work more than that.

You aren't going to fool anyone who is in a position of hiring people.

If you aren't thinking about working until 2017, get a degree that is worth the paper it is printed on. Or don't waste your time with college. We were assigned new students every year to take on the role of adviser. We had to sign their registration forms every semester. This is how we stopped people from avoiding the "hard" classes (like remedial high school math) until last. These were the tools you needed - statistics, math, analytical skills - for the upper level courses in management or science or whatever the degree was.

So you looked four years down the line for these kids and talked to them about what else they were doing that would form up a great resume at the completion of their degree. Maybe it was a hockey player, maybe they were working, maybe it was an older student that was actually scared about whether he could compete against these kids 20 years younger than him (their work ethics generally made the kids look lazy).

If you had come into my office I would give you a swift kick in the rear end for bad attitude. The few times I have had to do it, they thanked me later in their career. You can raise kids and still pursue a program with rigor.

The defense to the approach seems to be that it isn't technically cheating. This is what you want to put before an employer? That when assigned a job, you will put forth an effort that is not technically cheating?

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

I think I already explained that I have no choice about what classes to take. The above 4 classes is all the state is willing to pay for. As far as an adviser goes, I do have an adviser that will help me with job seeking once I am done since I am also getting help from vocational rehab. In fact she checked in with me today. For me, math is not a remedial subject for me since I did not complete even elementary algebra in middle school. The took me out mid class and stuck me in a room with 60 screaming kids with 1 teacher who made general waving motions at the blackboard. What was I saying? Oh yeah, Good job in getting your point across. Its kind of hard to make sense of snips from various posts often spread through multiple threads which is often the case. I am going to start putting my foot down on that.

Personally I am betting against passing college algebra.

PS. I never said I cheated. Cheating is against the rules,

 

[DuvalHMFIC]

If you're really having trouble with Excel, word, etc. there are plenty of good Youtube tutorials out there. It's free, and you can watch them while your kid is sleeping.

If you just really feel the need for a more structured setting, try a MOOC, or even plop down 25 bucks and get a one month subscription to Linda.com You can actually get a free month anyhow. Plenty of cheaper and quicker options than taking a class.

 

[John Jones]

For me, math is not a remedial subject for me since I did not complete even elementary algebra in middle school.

Yes, it is a remedial subject for the reason you just described.

Take as much math education as you can. Eventually, a light may go on in your head, and things will suddenly start making sense. That light went on in my head in second year calculus.

This is the same advice I gave my daughters. You can never get too much mathematics.

 

[rjh01]

I had to explain to someone once how to use copy and paste.

Do not knock that sort of thing. I know heaps about Excel. Then someone comes along and shows me something basic and useful about it that I did not know. This has happened to me more than once. Possibly one of the penalties of being 100% self-taught.

 

[arthwollipot]

Do not knock that sort of thing. I know heaps about Excel. Then someone comes along and shows me something basic and useful about it that I did not know. This has happened to me more than once. Possibly one of the penalties of being 100% self-taught.

Yeah, but copy and paste is such a fundamental aspect of the way computers work that I thought anyone who gets anywhere near one would know about it.

I was wrong.

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

Man I am tanking this semester. I just cant get into my classes. The Excel class wants you do to case studies on the basis of business expectations which means they don't tell you what they want all that well. The teacher works hard though and seems to grade fairly.

The database management teacher has required very little homework with only a midterm and a final. This lack of structure is killing me in this class and I am getting a D in it, The midterm was pretty hard with a huge ERD but only had a total of 15 questions so getting a few wrong will kill your grade. The overall point total for the class is really low too. He came off at first as this cool liberal dude but pretty much looks like a hard ass conservative dude (which pretty much describes the IT department in general).

It seems the theme this semester is business type expectations problems and less overall work and I am not getting it. I really needed to put more time into it too so half the problem is me. We got a new Dean so maybe this is her thing. Hopefully I will come around

 

[Dessi]

Hang in there. Even if you don't get much out of your degree program, simply having a degree listed on your resume is a huge advantage, it eases the barrier to entry whenever you start your first job or internship.

 

[DuvalHMFIC]

Most of my classes now only grade you on a midterm and a final. Homework is not graded, or if it is, you're lucky if it's worth 10% of your grade. In my Probability and Statistics class, we were fortunate enough that he decided to give us 3 tests instead of two. So we had our first test over probability in general (2000 level stuff), the second over discrete and continuous probability functions, and it seems our final will be over hypothesis testing and stuff like that. It would have SUCKED to only have 2 tests in that class. This is one class that I just can't wrap my head around. I'm getting an A, but not for understanding. I just do enough practice problems that I can recognize the density function and go through the motions. I have no sense of the motivation behind any of the stuff beyond the 2000 level probabilities.

"Here's a gamma function! Here's how it was derived!" Yes, but how is it applicable to the real world? "Oh, weathermen use it I think."

Thanks for nothing. At least the exponential distribution makes some sense. They use good examples for that. They TELL you chi-square distribution is important, but never really explain why, or what the hell a degree of freedom is.

Okay, sorry for the thread hijack, I just had to vent a little.

 

[Furcifer]

Once you graduate you get a peace of paper that will get you a job. It does not matter if you did not learn much. There will be a lot to learn when you start the new job.

Pun intended?

What you've learned is how to learn. I have a degree (math/physics) and a diploma (mechanical eng.) and a certificate of qualification (4th class operator). Of those, the lesser, the certificate of qualification comes closest to actual practical applied knowledge. And even then it's more of a "I read about that and know how it works" rather than a "School has taught me how to be proficient at it's operation".
As for "cheating" this seems to be the way of the world. We are in a transition. There was a time when using the internet or computers to assist in completing a task was frowned upon. Now the internet is a tool and using it to complete tasks is an important part of work and life in general.
The problem with that is when you have a very specific task to complete, and you rely too heavily on the internet, if you can't find something identical or very close to what you are doing, you are completely and utterly buggered.
Good luck with your Excel certification. From your list of classes and in my experience this will likely be the bullet point on the resume that a recruiter will notice.

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

Most of my classes now only grade you on a midterm and a final. Homework is not graded, or if it is, you're lucky if it's worth 10% of your grade. In my Probability and Statistics class, we were fortunate enough that he decided to give us 3 tests instead of two. So we had our first test over probability in general (2000 level stuff), the second over discrete and continuous probability functions, and it seems our final will be over hypothesis testing and stuff like that. It would have SUCKED to only have 2 tests in that class. This is one class that I just can't wrap my head around. I'm getting an A, but not for understanding. I just do enough practice problems that I can recognize the density function and go through the motions. I have no sense of the motivation behind any of the stuff beyond the 2000 level probabilities.

"Here's a gamma function! Here's how it was derived!" Yes, but how is it applicable to the real world? "Oh, weathermen use it I think."

Thanks for nothing. At least the exponential distribution makes some sense. They use good examples for that. They TELL you chi-square distribution is important, but never really explain why, or what the hell a degree of freedom is.

Okay, sorry for the thread hijack, I just had to vent a little.

I tanked my database management class. I ran the numbers and came up with 66% for homework and 28% on the mid term the teacher apparently got complaints about his mid term so he offered to let you retake it to earn 20 points more and added two more assignments but even if I maxed everything I would be at a D right now. I was too sick so walked out without trying. What was funny was that when I walked in the teacher seemed to be glaring at me. I wonder if he thought I was the one who complained-there is no reason to complain about it as my grade is so low there is no way to recover. I am on cruise control for this class.

I just did my macros homework and the first two case studies worked fine but I got to the last case study which worked until I put in the buttons. Then it smashed to bits. I didn't have time to fix it so patched it up as best as I Could and sent it. If anybody knows where to find some good lessons on macros let me know.

Yeah, advanced math is like that here. Apparently they don't even let you use a calculator.

 

[DuvalHMFIC]

I'm against using calculators in any math class-you need to understand what you're doing and why. In other classes though? Have at it. No reason I should still be doing integrals by hand when I'm trying to learn about mosfets and BJTS in electronics. They're hard enough without adding the math (that I've already learned how to do) slowing me down.

 

[Blue Mountain]

(initial part snipped)

I just did my macros homework and the first two case studies worked fine but I got to the last case study which worked until I put in the buttons. Then it smashed to bits. I didn't have time to fix it so patched it up as best as I Could and sent it. If anybody knows where to find some good lessons on macros let me know.

What product (or products) are you using? Are you referring here to the database or to a spreadsheet, which is where I've seen the word "macro" used most often?

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

What product (or products) are you using? Are you referring here to the database or to a spreadsheet, which is where I've seen the word "macro" used most often?

I am using excel 2013. I guess there is only one way to do a macro from what I heard in class but by the third homework apparently I forgot it,(or made it too complicated). They said to restart it but I tinkered with it instead since I didn't have enough time to restart.

 

[jimbob]

You can record macros or write code. That's two completely different ways that I can think of straight off the top of my head.

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

I am doing advanced functions this week which I hear is hard. I really would like to know what I did wrong with my last macro. I think it had something do to with protecting/unprotecting sheets. I do know about the control down arrow but am not quite sure how to use it.

 

[DuvalHMFIC]

The internet is your friend.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=excel+advanced+functions

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

That should help me with this weeks homework, thanks. Good luck with yours.

 

[DuvalHMFIC]

No problem. Youtube can be a great asset, but it can be difficult to find the YouTuber that really "speaks your language." Give a few vids a spin and don't be shy about cutting them off after a couple of minutes if it's not doing you any good. It always takes me probably 5-6 vids before I find someone that really helps me, and this varies by subject. The only good thing is that most YouTubers will present entire playlists on a subject, so once you find the right person you can kind of "ride with them" for the rest of that class. Though if you try them in a different subject you may not like it at all.

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

Definition of math solver would be a calculator!
Some are allowed and some aren't.
Anyways I am taking college algebra for the second time and it feels different. for instance midterm/final is not 70% of grade its 45%. Correct answers are half the showing the answer/working out the problem is the other half. For the rest of the grade, homework is about half understanding the problem and half typing formulas into your calculator. They have discussion, quizzes, and labs that round out the class. One page of notes is allowed during exams.

Thats good because math people are not alway the best at discussions. programming is a like a combination of math/language so its similar. I am taking Java and the teacher asked people to say something about themselves plus what certifications and experience they have. Nobody said anything about themselves just their certifications. On person who claimed knowledge of a programming language ignored the teacher when asked about it. The Java class is good.

Both classes seem doable.

Youtube has not been that great of an asset because it takes to long to access the information but the class has helps in the form of little tutorials on some problems during the homework. I am probably going faster than its possible to acquire full knowledge of the subject but I am keeping good notes so I should get some kind of grade during the exams.

 

[DuvalHMFIC]

Congrats, and good luck on your classes this semester!

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

Running a B in math so far but how is 31.5 out of a total of 35 points a B? Expect a 100 or so posts like this. Reply when you think clarification is needed, ok?

 

[Spektator]

Running a B in math so far but how is 31.5 out of a total of 35 points a B? Expect a 100 or so posts like this. Reply when you think clarification is needed, ok?

That would be a 90. What's the grading scale? At our university, a B is 81-90, an A is 91-100. That's in our college (Humanities) but the scale is not universal, and in some courses even here a 93 or higher is necessary for an A. Depends on the course.

ETA: Just checked with a STEM teacher, and I was wrong. There in most of the math courses, an 83-93 is a B; an A is 94-98, and an A+ is 99-100.

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

Apparently 90-100 is an A. There was a couple of discussion posts I missed due to not knowing where to post is probably weighing it. Apparently, I can turn it in a couple days late and get partial credit. Posts are 10% of the grade-- as much as all your homework so I better go do it. Quizzes are 15%, Labs are 10% exams are 45%. It's nice to have all these small steps to do so you have a feeling of accomplishment at each step, but it sucks if it takes over your life. I have a hundred pages to read in java. It sounds like the tests in Java will be, "I want you to write a program that does xyz." rather than terms so I better start putting more time into it.

 

[Hans]

What school is really for is to prepare you for work

1. You have to show up
2. You have do what others tell you
3. You have to do stuff you are not interested in
4. You have to work with people
5. You have to do stuff on time
6. You have to write stuff
7. You have to do this for some time

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

What school is really for is to prepare you for work

1. You have to show up
2. You have do what others tell you
3. You have to do stuff you are not interested in
4. You have to work with people
5. You have to do stuff on time
6. You have to write stuff
7. You have to do this for some time

There might not be work at the end of it for me for you even I do complete it. College is a young persons game.

 

[Hans]

There might not be work at the end of it for me for you even I do complete it. College is a young persons game.

I recommend joining the French foreign legion.

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

I recommend joining the French foreign legion.

I do understand that you are some kind of mercenary so that makes sense for you but you have to understand there are so many things wrong with career choice for me.

1. I don't like guns

2. I don't think I can drive the bus.

3. I don't want to do basic again plus I am overage.

4. I have kids.

5. I don't want to die.

6. Foreign legion sucks

7. I have trouble with languages

8. I am watched.

9. I am fat

10. I am/not running away from my past.

 

[DuvalHMFIC]

There might not be work at the end of it for me for you even I do complete it. College is a young persons game.

It all depends. Even though I'm 35 and getting an EE degree, I can pretty much guarantee you I'll never be designing circuits. THAT is a young person's game. On the flip side, I've already talked with companies that are ready to stick me into management once I graduate due to the degree and, more importantly, my previous work experience. It's odd but there are companies that would hire me NOW for management, except I don't have that piece of paper.

So I'll have an EE degree, but probably be middle management for an insurance company or something. At least I can build cool Christmas displays! And circuits is a CHEAP hobby.