Cont: Musk, SpaceX and future of Tesla II

the rest of the cyber truck is huge and weirdly shaped so the bed looks tiny. lot like a giant tall guy with huge muscles looks like he has this really tiny weiner. it’s actually merely a smaller than average sized weiner that looks a lot more tiny due to the rest of the guy being huge
 
he’s right too by the way. musk bought twitter to try and control speech. cost him a lot of money and made it irrelevant instead
 
Musk hired to destroy ISS space station.
What's he going to do, rename it X?
 
No lie, though, it's gonna be fascinating to see what they do to decom the ISS. Will they de-orbit one component at a time? Thats what I would do, probably.

I have an image of Musk riding the ISS into the atmosphere, waving a Stetson like Slim Pickens.
 
Seriously, what kind of expertise does SpaceX have in dealing with Space Debris, apart from Starlink at any time being a hair's breath away from triggering a Kessler Syndrome?

Looks to me like a barely disguised trick of shovelling money his way.
 
Seriously, what kind of expertise does SpaceX have in dealing with Space Debris, apart from Starlink at any time being a hair's breath away from triggering a Kessler Syndrome?

Looks to me like a barely disguised trick of shovelling money his way.

I'm not sure deorbited satellites count as space debris. It's probably more about delivering the decom crews and supplying them while they do the work, and bringing them safely home again once they undock from the last remaining module. So, the usual experience for that kind of thing: Crewed spaceflight to LEO, orbital rendezvous, crewed reentry. All things that SpaceX is demonstrably able to do.

It seems like what NASA (or whoever) is saying is that they'd rather have SpaceX service the decom missions, rather than ULA/Boeing. And that seems like a reasonable decision to me.
 
I'm not sure deorbited satellites count as space debris. It's probably more about delivering the decom crews and supplying them while they do the work, and bringing them safely home again once they undock from the last remaining module. So, the usual experience for that kind of thing: Crewed spaceflight to LEO, orbital rendezvous, crewed reentry. All things that SpaceX is demonstrably able to do.

It seems like what NASA (or whoever) is saying is that they'd rather have SpaceX service the decom missions, rather than ULA/Boeing. And that seems like a reasonable decision to me.

that makes more sense
 
2024 Cybertruck bed dimensions: 51 W x 72.92 L

2024 Ford F-150 bed dimensions: 50.6 W x 67.1 L
Please stop with the inconvenient facts - they're spoiling the narrative!

Elon Musk purchased Twitter and refused to continue censoring democrats' political opposition.
Yet more proof that Musk is a malignant narcissist.

I mean come on! Supporting free speech is one thing, but permitting speech we don't agree with is going too far. :mad:
 
the rest of the cyber truck is huge and weirdly shaped so the bed looks tiny. lot like a giant tall guy with huge muscles looks like he has this really tiny weiner. it’s actually merely a smaller than average sized weiner that looks a lot more tiny due to the rest of the guy being huge
I'm guessing The 'weirdly shaped' bit is what makes you think the bed looks 'tiny'. Conventional pickup trucks have a separate cab and bed body, so the size of each is clearly delineated.

But take a look at this Ford F-150 - which bit looks like huge muscles, and which bit is the tiny wiener?

picture.php
 
All trucks are just fashion statements. In sane countries, if you are in the business of hauling building materials around, you don't ue a truck, you use a van like this: https://images.app.goo.gl/Q1vUjaeSvXTn4GCy6

It has vastly more carrying capacity than probably any truck, the convenience of sides that can be lowered and is probably more efficient.

All trucks are basically just penis extensions, pretty much like all sports cars (I say that as an Audi S3 owner).
You can tell the practical tradies by the van they use.
 
I didn't say **** about the size of the bed, did I? Reading comprehension aside, I'll throw you two a bone:



In non-tech speak, they're **** to use for hauling stuff. I seriously thought that was so clear by what I said, but here we are.
Correct, you did not say **** about the bed and what you did say was very clear, and I will quote you
It pisses me off that it's called a truck. That's not a truck. It's an SUV. If you can't fit anything bigger than a bicycle in the vehicle easily then it's definitely not a truck.


Trucks have an open bed, SUVs are fully enclosed.

I could call the Cybertruck a panel van, but I don't live in a fantasy land where I get to make up my own definitions.
 
apart from Starlink at any time being a hair's breath away from triggering a Kessler Syndrome?

Given Starlink's low orbit, it can't trigger Kessler Syndrome. Starlink satellites are in a low orbit that requires periodic thrust to maintain and without that thrust their interaction with the atmosphere will deorbit them naturally. They can't become space junk.
 
Correct, you did not say **** about the bed and what you did say was very clear, and I will quote you

Trucks have an open bed, SUVs are fully enclosed.

I could call the Cybertruck a panel van, but I don't live in a fantasy land where I get to make up my own definitions.

I have no idea what the hell this even means, but I also don't care. Now that Roger has shown up I'll see myself out. I'm not some Musk hater, I've given him props for things he's done, and I don't use X so I don't care, but there is nothing I hate more than blind fanbois that think Musk does no wrong. Now that we're into the area where implying I give a **** who gets what voice, and you guys enthusiastically patting each other on the back, waiting to see who gets to eat the bread, makes me sad for society. I'll let you all get back to it.
 
I have no idea what the hell this even means, but I also don't care. Now that Roger has shown up I'll see myself out. I'm not some Musk hater, I've given him props for things he's done, and I don't use X so I don't care, but there is nothing I hate more than blind fanbois that think Musk does no wrong. Now that we're into the area where implying I give a **** who gets what voice, and you guys enthusiastically patting each other on the back, waiting to see who gets to eat the bread, makes me sad for society. I'll let you all get back to it.

some people can't think outside of a cult
 
2024 Cybertruck bed dimensions: 51 W x 72.92 L



2024 Ford F-150 bed dimensions: 50.6 W x 67.1 L











Elon Musk purchased Twitter and refused to continue censoring democrats' political opposition.
The Cybertruck tray length is not quite that. The length at the rim is only 66". There is a slope at the cabin wall for some reason.
 
Those are the dimnsions of the short bed offered by Ford.


Fact check: true.

The bed dimensions are similar to, Chevrolet/GMC, Dodge/RAM, Nissan, Toyota etc. There have been tens of millions of them sold over the decades. Most people will still call them trucks, not SUVs.
 
Fact check: true.

The bed dimensions are similar to, Chevrolet/GMC, Dodge/RAM, Nissan, Toyota etc. There have been tens of millions of them sold over the decades. Most people will still call them trucks, not SUVs.

I have not mentioned SUVs.

My point, if it wasn't clear, is that you compared the only bed size of the cybertruck to the smallest bed size of the F-150 without mentioning that it is an optional, smaller than standard size.
 
I have not mentioned SUVs.
True, but plague311 did. A total lie it was too. It's a sad world when purported champions of rationality resort to such tactics. Even sadder when others don't call it out and just keep pushing the narrative.

Most sad of all is when it falls on partisan lines with 'right-wing' posters being being truthful and honest while so-called 'progressives' are the opposite. It really is a crazy world we are living in right now.

My point, if it wasn't clear, is that you compared the only bed size of the cybertruck to the smallest bed size of the F-150 without mentioning that it is an optional, smaller than standard size.

Let's be fair here. First off, compare the Cybertruck to the closest Ford model, the F-150 Lightning. I'll go for the top trim F-150 Lightning® Platinum.
Starting at $91,995
EPA-Estimated Range 300 miles

Specifications
Cab style SuperCrew

Overall length 232.7 in.
Inside Length (at floor) 67.1 in.
Width between wheelhouses 50.6 in.

Base Curb Weight Platinum 6,893 lbs.

Cybertruck
Model: All-wheel Drive

Range (est.) 340 miles

Overall Length 223.7"

Weight 6,603 lbs
So the Cybertruck is 9 inches shorter overall, yet has a longer bed than the standard F-150 Lightning. It's also 4% lighter and has longer (estimated) driving range.

And before the haters latch onto that 'est.' range with their usual lies,
Tesla Cybertruck Foundation Series Beats Tesla's Estimate in Edmunds' EV Range Test
- We put a Tesla Cybertruck Foundation Series through our official Edmunds EV Range Test.

- We achieved 334 miles on our test.

- The Cybertruck is one of the most range-accurate Teslas we've ever tested.
 
then again, the poor sales must be related to something about the truck.

There's a lot of things not to like about the truck. I'm just not sure the actual range of the production model is one of them. And I think maybe people who hate Musk and were never going to buy a Cybertruck aren't the best judges of what not to like about the vehicle.
 
oh ok. i’m just evaluating things on their own merits myself

in any case i think a reduced range and the additional battery draw from towing might have been a consideration for many people but idk just a musk critic talking
 
Considering how much range anxiety puts a lot of people off evs in general, I'd assume it plays a part in purchase decisions for this truck
 
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Considering how much range anxiety puts a lot of people off evs in general, I'd assume it plays a part in purchase decisions for this truck

Sure, but that's a dispassionate, informed decision about the specs of the vehicle. It's not a complaint about the projected range versus the actual range.

Musk said one thing, the actual range is something else. Is this a problem? Did Musk defraud anyone? Actual Cybertruck owners don't seem to think so. Musk haters who were never interested in the product to begin with with seem to think it's perfidious perfidy on Musk's part.
 
The promised range by Musk was 500 miles. That was what people signed up for. Then it was revised down to the actual range. There is an optional battery that takes up a lot of the tray space,

Tesla Cybertruck
Tesla CEO Elon Musk's ideas for a pickup truck were first stated publicly in 2012, envisioning a "Tesla supertruck with crazy torque, dynamic air suspension, and corners like it's on rails." In a 2014 interview with CNN, Musk stated that the Tesla pickup would be the equivalent of a Ford F-150...

2019 concept

The concept Cybertruck was unveiled in Los Angeles in November 2019—the same month, year, and location that the movie Blade Runner was set...

Reservations

Beginning in November 2019, Tesla accepted Cybertruck reservations with a refundable US$100 deposit. On November 23, 2019, Musk tweeted that Tesla had received 146,000 reservations in the first 1.5 days after the unveiling. Musk updated the number of preorders to 250,000 on November 26.

In October 2021, Tesla removed the Cybertruck's pricing and specifications from its website without explanation while still accepting deposits. An updated prototype was spotted undergoing testing in December 2021. The newer prototype could be distinguished from the 2019 concept vehicle by the presence of a large windshield wiper and the omission of the truck's front light bar.

At the 2022 annual shareholders meeting, in response to a question, Elon Musk stated that final specifications and pricing would be materially different from those unveiled on the concept vehicle in 2019.

By the end of November 2023, there were approximately 2 million reservations
Concept vehicles generally don't make it into production unchanged, if at at all (most never get past the concept stage), so it's not surprising that the specifications changed as development continued. People were still making reservations well after the specs were firmed up, and anyone who wasn't happy could pull out at any time.

I don't know why the range was revised downwards, but I suspect it had to do with battery technology not advancing as much as was hoped. The use of 4680 cells may be one factor. When Tesla announced the capacity improvement and cost reduction these cells would bring I was skeptical, especially as they were intending to use a new 'dry' coating technique that looked technically challenging. Nevertheless I'm sure the engineers thought they could do it. This wouldn't be the first time that a battery manufacturer had 'optimistic' goals, nor will it be the last. In fact it's quite normal in the industry.

Another interesting fact is that the Cybertruck's battery box is not completely full (widely reported as being 'half-empty' though this doesn't appear to be true). It looks to me like they could easily have put in enough extra cells to boost the range by 50% (340 to 500 miles) but there may be technical or other reasons (cost, cell production rate?) why they didn't do it.

Point is that this is just the 'foundation' series, which will almost certainly be revised for later mainstream production models. Also the actual range, while less than the originally planned 500 miles, is still greater than the Ford F-150 Lightning which Musk was aiming to match.

Tesla could use higher capacity batteries in the Cybertruck, but that would probably mean buying them from China which is very problematic in the US right now. It will be interesting to see what happens when they start selling Cybertrucks in China. I'm betting the range and price will be much closer to the original concept.

Of course none of this will satisfy the haters, because they don't want to be satisfied. They are only looking for ammunition to attack Musk, Tesla and EVs in general with, and will inflate, distort, or outright lie about anything related to those topics - and when that's not enough they make stuff up.

It's amusing to watch purportedly intelligent 'skeptics' lose their **** over Musk and Tesla, but it doesn't bother me. I'm only interested in the technology and what Tesla is doing to push the boundaries. So far they have done pretty well, but in any game like this there's always a chance they will push it too far and crash and burn. Some of the things they are doing might not seem rational to someone on the outside, but I just found out about Tesla taking autonomous driving to China and the penny dropped. Huge city populations, only 44% of households own a car (52% in urban areas) - seems like robotaxis could be a huge money spinner for whoever manages to make them reliable. And China is exactly where we need it now, as they are the World's biggest CO2 emitters.
 
What disappoints me of that Tesla was creating leading edge products and it's now a shambles. The big Tesla battery has been a game changer for helping the transition to renewable energy. The Tesla cars were a breakthrough in making electric cars a viable consumer product. The Tesla Wall battery was the first viable consumer home storage battery to pair with solar power. With Elon on control it's become a vanity project that Elon is milking to fund his pet personal flights of fancy like Twitter/X.

The FSD debacle is a typical Elon move that debases the Tesla brand and breeds consumer distrust. He continually promises what he can't deliver.
 
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I don't know why the range was revised downwards,
Because the number, like the price, was pulled out of Musk's arse.

Another interesting fact is that the Cybertruck's battery box is not completely full (widely reported as being 'half-empty' though this doesn't appear to be true). It looks to me like they could easily have put in enough extra cells to boost the range by 50% (340 to 500 miles) but there may be technical or other reasons (cost, cell production rate?) why they didn't do it.

The Cybertruck is already very heavy, so weight probably has something to do with. It's also very expensive, so cost is another thing that will have something to do with it.

Of course none of this will satisfy the haters, because they don't want to be satisfied. They are only looking for ammunition to attack Musk, Tesla and EVs in general with, and will inflate, distort, or outright lie about anything related to those topics - and when that's not enough they make stuff up.
Instead of insulting your opponents, why not argue the points?

It's amusing to watch purportedly intelligent 'skeptics' lose their **** over Musk and Tesla, but it doesn't bother me.
Yes it does, otherwise you wouldn't bang on about the Haters all the time.
 
Because the number, like the price, was pulled out of Musk's arse.

Evidence?

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I'm more familiar with the vicissitudes of military procurement. Say the government wants a new tank. They want it to weigh under a certain tonnage, and have a top speed of so much. The contractor delivers a prototype that meets these requirements. Then, between prototype and production, the tank gets loaded with upgrades and additional features. Its weight goes up, its top speed goes down. Nobody pulled any numbers out of their ass. Everyone understood that the ideal tank was a starting point, and that the production model wouldn't match the ideal specs. A lot of times, the ideal specs are there just to set a target for the production model.

Or look at the Have Blue stealth prototype. Ridiculously stealthy shape. Almost completely unflyable shape. So the production F-117 traded away some stealth for a (marginally) more flyable shape. Did Lockheed pull the initial stealth numbers out of its ass? Did they scam the taxpayer, when their production model didn't live up to the promise of the prototype?
 

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