Murders of 4 Idaho College Students - suspect arrested

Skeptic Ginger

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Skeptic Ginger
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There have been more than a few criticisms of the local police that the stabbing deaths of these 4 students in their beds at 3 or 4 in the morning was too much for the local cops to investigate.

Turns out the cops with the help of the FBI were actually doing a very thorough systematic investigation and after ~6 weeks they've arrested a suspect. They have DNA and his car at the scene and he certainly fits the profile. I'm going to say incel (plus a bunch of other stuff) until I see evidence to the contrary.

Idaho Murders Suspect Made One Huge Mistake, Expert Says
Investigators believe Kohberger, 28, was responsible for the grisly slayings of University of Idaho undergrads Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, both 21, and Xana Kernodle and her boyfriend Ethan Chapin, who were both 20. The four were stabbed to death in the early morning hours of Nov. 13, as they slept in their off-campus rental home in the small farming community of Moscow, according to authorities. It remains unclear how, or if, Kohberger knew any of the victims.

Steve Goncalves, Goncalves’ father, told ABC News after Kohberger’s arrest that neither he, nor anyone else in the family knew Kohberger. But he noted that after learning the suspect’s identity, they have started to see connections between Kohberger and Goncalves, though they couldn’t discuss them yet. ...
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... A first-year Ph.D. student and teaching assistant at Washington State University in Pullman, about 10 miles from the crime scene, Kohberger completed a graduate program in criminal justice earlier this year at DeSales University, a Catholic institution in Center Valley, Pennsylvania. ...

... DNA evidence found at the murder scene was a crucial factor in tracking down Kohberger, who was found holed up at his parents’ home in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania, a law enforcement source told the Associated Press. Detectives fed the genetic material found at the home into a public database, which turned up potential family matches, helping police to zero in on Kohberger, according to a source cited by CNN.
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So what mistake did he make?
Investigators also mounted a nationwide search for a white Hyundai Elantra spotted near the victims’ house around the time of the murders, and compiled a list of 22,000 possible matches—finally narrowing it down to Kohberger’s vehicle. He had driven it all the way back from the Pacific Northwest to his parents’ place near the Poconos, where cops got a bead on him “ometime right before Christmas,” a separate source told CNN."If somebody like this was really a student of criminal justice and criminology, then he would understand certain things like Locard’s Exchange Principle,” Giacalone told The Daily Beast, referring to the time-tested forensic theory that “every contact leaves a trace.”

“It shows you the arrogance of people like him, where he thinks he’s smarter than the cops because he read something in a book,” Giacalone continued.
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During his junior year in high school, Kohberger got teased for being overweight, one acquaintance said, recalling that Kohberger showed up the following year “thinner than a rail” and looking for a fight. The former friend, 26-year-old Nick Mcloughlin, said he was at a loss to explain why Kohberger had become, in his words, “100 percent a different person.”
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One thing is for sure - the fat-shaming bullies who drove Kohberger to insanity will never be brought to justice.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
One thing is for sure - the fat-shaming bullies who drove Kohberger to insanity will never be brought to justice.
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If you read a few of the articles, he was the bully in many of them. And he had eating disorder issues, clearly, but by "his senior year" according to the article I quoted, he was "thinner than a rail."

So I think this one is more up the psychotic tree than the bullied fat kid tree.
 
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Little confused why this is in T&E. Won't the trial be a year away or so? Meanwhile, not sure what the specific subject is, what with the volume of USA murders.

The article seems to think the alleged killer made "one big mistake". I count at least four, from the meager reporting. Biggest: he drove his own car to the murder scene. This one is so stupid I have trouble believing it's even real. Next, he chose a killing scene just a few miles from where he worked. That makes his car something that would be quickly noticed (that it's a description match). He left DNA at the scene, that the cops crossed referenced on an Ancestry or 23andMe database or something and nailed his Pennsylvania family for matches? Then he also vanished from his job right after the murders and showed up in the same highly recognizable car that he took to the killings, at the most likely place in the world to find him: his parent's Pennsylvania place where he grew up.

What does it take to get some proper villains nowadays? There was a Reddit story a couple days ago about two losers who killed some poor kid, thinking they planned a foolproof murder. They were in cuffs within like seconds.
 
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Thermal said:
Little confused why this is in T&E. Won't the trial be a year away or so? Meanwhile, not sure what the specific subject is, what with the volume of USA murders.

The article seems to think the alleged killer made "one big mistake". I count at least four, from the meager reporting. Biggest: he drove his own car to the murder scene. This one is so stupid I have trouble believing it's even real. Next, he chose a killing scene just a few miles from where he worked. That makes his car something that would be quickly noticed (that it's a description match). He left DNA at the scene, that the cops crossed referenced on an Ancestry or 23andMe database or something and nailed his Pennsylvania family for matches? Then he also vanished from his job right after the murders and showed up in the same highly recognizable car that he took to the killings, at the most likely place in the world to find him: his parent's Pennsylvania place where he grew up.

What does it take to get some proper villains nowadays? There was a Reddit story a couple days ago about two losers who killed some poor kid, thinking they planned a foolproof murder. They were in cuffs within like seconds.
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Where else should I have put it? :confused: It's fine to move it.

Topic #1) This story dominates the news here and I didn't see any threads on it. Four college students in their early 20s were stabbed to death in their sleep by an unknown intruder 6 weeks ago.

Topic #2) The police were criticized for being a small town cops who shouldn't be handling this kind of crime. Turns out they were doing a fairly good job.

Topic #3) It looks like it's going to be a serial killer story whether these victims were his first or not.

Topic #4) Beautiful white girl murders get way more attention than less attractive and/or brown or black girl murders. No matter how often this comes up, the media will cover a couple brown or black girl murders then go right back to saturated coverage of murdered white girl stories.


As for the killer's one mistake, I agree that article is very poorly written.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Where else should I have put it? :confused: It's fine to move it.
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SI&CE, I'd think.

Topic #1) This story dominates the news here and I didn't see any threads on it. Four college students in their early 20s were stabbed to death in their sleep by an unknown intruder 6 weeks ago.

Topic #2) The police were criticized for being a small town cops who shouldn't be handling this kind of crime. Turns out they were doing a fairly good job.

Topic #3) It looks like it's going to be a serial killer story whether these victims were his first or not.

Topic #4) Beautiful white girl murders get way more attention than less attractive and/or brown or black girl murders. No matter how often this comes up, the media will cover a couple brown or black girl murders then go right back to saturated coverage of murdered white girl stories.


As for the killer's one mistake, I agree that article is very poorly written.
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Seems unusual that a grad student would mass murder three girls and a guy, stabbing them in their sleep. The alleged (he says he didn't do it) killer's background in criminal justice is weird, too. Did police do anything sloppy except for how long it took them to track the guy down?
 
They made an early announcement it was a targeted killing and there was no need for the community to be afraid. That was quickly taken back. A lot of students went home for T-Day and hesitated coming back.

The police kept a lot of things close to the vest, not sure if it might have been better to at least have reported some progress like how many tips they were sorting. They did mention the car in a public announcement looking for more tips.

But in hindsight the police were actually doing a decent job. Not sure how long it took to find some useable DNA. It sounds like they then had to search genetic data bases for relatives. Then they had to match that up with the data on the car or maybe other things, I'm not sure.

While they kept an eye on the suspect who had gone to his parent's house in PA they searched his local residence.

I don't see that the police screwed up in any significant way.


When I saw he was a PhD student I was surprised too. It will be interesting if it turns out he did poorly in that first semester/quarter or if he didn't get needed money for school as a trigger. I also wonder if they are going to connect him to any other murders.

The emerging picture is that of a socially challenged psychopath.
 
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The 'probable cause' papers will be unsealed once Kohberger is extradited back to Idaho.

Until then, we can speculate.

So his father went bankrupt in 2010. In the USA that is not unusual I understand because of medical bills, etc.

His father flew from Pennsylvania to drive Kohberger home from his accommodation in Moscow, Idaho. So they made a 2,500m journey. However, wasn't Kohberger intending to return? If the car was a 2015? or 2011- 2013 model (Hyundai Elantra) registered in his father's name, it suggests Kohberger didn't have the finance or couldn't get the finance to buy a more recent model or one in his own name (he is 28).

I can't help wondering if his father tipped off the police, whilst at the same time getting his attorney to put out the usual statement about loving and standing by their son.

It is interesting this guy studies criminology and studied under a famous forensic psychologist who has written many books on murder and had a close acquaintance with the notorious 'BTK' Radar killer.

Was Kohberger emulating Ted Bundy who was caught:

The only thing they could go on was the fact that the vehicle was stolen from somewhere near the Chi Omega sorority house at Florida State University, where four women were attacked on January 15, 1978.
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https://www.distractify.com/p/how-was-ted-bundy-caught


From wiki:

Earlier on the evening of November 12, two of the four victims, Chapin and Kernodle, were at an on-campus party at the nearby Sigma Chi fraternity from 8 pm to 9 pm.
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So there is that frat thing and the appearance of an all-girl house (except Xana had Ethan Chapin staying with her). Bundy was also said to have asked, 'Have they caught anyone else', although I don't know whether this verified.

Kohberger seems to have targetted one of the victims, either Kaylee, Madison or some say, Xana. Perhaps he wasn't expecting Kaylee or Madison to be in the same bed so killed them both. Possibly Xana and Ethan woke up and they too were attacked. Some are saying Ethan was found in the kitchen next day by one of the two survivors, who were on the ground floor and who had slept in util near midday, having got back about 01:00. The mother of one of the (female) survivors suggested they had heard the noise upstairs so had locked their doors (was it some kind of remote auto lock?). As the police have released very little information, this all remains conjecture.

However, suppose Kohberger deliberately had his car in front of the CCTV parking lot and was hoping for fifteen minutes fame as a mass killer...?

Alternatively, was he an incel with a burning rage at being constantly rejected by females?

His sister is some kind of psychotherapist, which makes me wonder if his family knew only too well their dear son and brother had some kind of mental health problem, as it were, even if only at a low-level consciousness.
 
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Bob001 said:
He doesn't have to agree. He can be compelled.
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Last time I checked, there was a whole ass civil right to not being compelled to give evidence against one's own interest. And that invoking this right was not itself evidence against the defendant.

But you keep working that lynch mob energy. Strange fruit ain't so strange to some, am I right?
 
theprestige said:
Last time I checked, there was a whole ass civil right to not being compelled to give evidence against one's own interest. And that invoking this right was not itself evidence against the defendant.

But you keep working that lynch mob energy. Strange fruit ain't so strange to some, am I right?
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You don't have to testify against yourself. You can't hide evidence, and DNA is evidence, just like a murder weapon or bloody clothes.
The U.S. Supreme Court ruled Monday that police can routinely take DNA samples from people who are arrested but not yet convicted of a crime, and see if the DNA matches any samples from unsolved crimes in a national database.
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https://www.npr.org/2013/06/03/188397999/supreme-court-rules-arrest-dna-collection-reasonable

The Supreme Court has ruled that police can take DNA samples from anybody under arrest for any crimes, regardless of whether DNA is relevant to their arrest. The idea is to be able to connect people under arrest with other unsolved crimes using DNA, but the ruling has some worried about privacy and false accusations.
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https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/police-can-now-take-your-dna-after-any-arrest-91140837/

The U.S. Constitution does not prohibit states from building large DNA databases by collecting samples from everyone arrested for serious crimes, the Supreme Court ruled in a 5-4 decision Monday.
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https://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/supreme-court-upholds-dna-testing-felony-arrests-092140

Your smug indignation doesn't make you right.
 
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theprestige said:
Last time I checked, there was a whole ass civil right to not being compelled to give evidence against one's own interest. And that invoking this right was not itself evidence against the defendant.

But you keep working that lynch mob energy. Strange fruit ain't so strange to some, am I right?
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They searched his apartment with a warrant. There would have been DNA there they could compare to that at the crime scene.
 
Vixen said:
.....
If the car was a 2015? or 2011- 2013 model (Hyundai Elantra) registered in his father's name, it suggests Kohberger didn't have the finance or couldn't get the finance to buy a more recent model or one in his own name (he is 28).
....
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Not to digress too far, but a 10-year-old car can provide perfectly comfortable and reliable transportation. It depends more on care and maintenance than age.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
They searched his apartment with a warrant. There would have been DNA there they could compare to that at the crime scene.
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They had to have enough evidence for probable cause to get the search warrant. Quite possible they had gotten confirmation using DNA from going though his trash. And that doesn't require a warrant or anything other than suspicion. Pretty common technique when tracking down possible suspects with familial DNA links to see if they are a match.
 
marting said:
They had to have enough evidence for probable cause to get the search warrant. Quite possible they had gotten confirmation using DNA from going though his trash. And that doesn't require a warrant or anything other than suspicion. Pretty common technique when tracking down possible suspects with familial DNA links to see if they are a match.
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One of the news articles said they traced his DNA through relatives that had their DNA in one of those ancestry data bases. That would give one enough cause to get his specific DNA at some point to confirm he was the descendant they were looking for.

As for the vehicle, again if the news is accurate, they looked through 22,000 car registrations. I can see them narrowing that down to nearby cars to start with. Now they have a car registration name that goes with the name on their ancestry search.

I think there was some meticulous data searching going on here.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
There have been more than a few criticisms of the local police that the stabbing deaths of these 4 students in their beds at 3 or 4 in the morning was too much for the local cops to investigate.

Turns out the cops with the help of the FBI were actually doing a very thorough systematic investigation...snip...
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Sadly, I think too many of us are influenced by the TV CIS style programmes and think everything can be done in a day. Forensic work can take weeks and even months to come to a conclusion.
 
I am hoping that what I have seen written about this crime is largely wild speculation, although the police have said it is the worst murder scene they have ever witnessed. If half of it is true, I am hoping the perpetrator fries and I would pay for a front seat to watch it. (Some reports say Idaho still has firing squad execution. However, that would be too 'honourable' for this guy. Firing squad was reserved for commissioned officers during the war.)

I mention this, because one report claims a body part of Kaylee was removed (she was apparently far more viciously mutilated than any of the others). If so, this would mirror Ted Bundy, who did the same.

Both Kaylee and Madison - who were in the same bed - sent a series of ten text messages to Kaylee's ex, Jack DuCouer (he is ruled out) between two and three. The murders happened between three and four.

Many are saying there is a link with Kaylee and that Kohberger had once sent her 27 unanswered texts two years ago. He had been at WSU just four months as a first year post grad PhD but may have visited some two years back. Others claim that Madison and Xana were the targets as they both served at the Mad Greek (which had a vegan option) and either both or one was able to make comments about difficult customers on the restaurant database. Kohberger had been pinged there and was known to have made inappropriate comments to female diners and also at bars. He had also been pinged at the accommodation, apparently, on the night of the killings (seems he was not so smart after all, if so).

Kohberger followed all three females on Instagram, so appears to be premeditated (stalking).

Looking at the sheer size of Ethan, the other victim, boyfriend of Xana, I can't help thinking Kohberger - if it was him - arrived very well-prepared to have managed to fight him off, even if Ethan was initially asleep in his bed.

Once Kohberger is extradited back to Idaho later today (live at 3:00 New York time) probable cause as to his being a suspect will be unsealed by Idaho prosecutors.
 
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UPDATE:

(Pastor)Jesu's Gabriel PENA(AZ) Gen x ����������
@JesusGa05753255
·
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Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger spotted for first time since arrest

https://foxnews.com/us/idaho-murder-suspect-bryan-kohberger-spotted-first-time-since-arrest��-"Watch & pray ��Idaho murderer ��2 Timothy 3��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������World-News Watch ����
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twitter

https://twitter.com/JesusGa05753255/status/1610343467867340801?s=20&t=39aRP7LhofPPcaz-HtAHZA
 
Thermal said:
Holy ****, he was spotted briefly walking?!? I feel so updated!
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:p


Either the following report is BS, maybe an attention seeking inmate, he's psychotic, or he's going for that insanity plea:

Idaho Murder Suspect Accused of Bizarre Jail Antics by Female Inmate
The man accused of killing four University of Idaho students in their beds has allegedly spent his time in jail taunting guards and attempting to expose himself to a female inmate, according to a report.

... Valerie Cipollina, 50, spoke to DailyMail.com about her experience of spending six hours in a cell near Kohberger’s at the facility after being detained herself early on New Year’s Day on a domestic violence charge.

Cipollina says she heard Kohberger repeatedly shouting “I cut them, I’ll cut you,” in taunts directed at guards in the jail. “You come in here and I’ll cut you,” Cipollina claimed Kohberger yelled at one guard. “I’m going to pee on your face. Do what you want with me, I don’t give a ◊◊◊◊.”

According to the outlet, Cipollina could see Kohberger’s upper body through the glass of his cell from where she was locked up in the jail. She said she didn’t realize who he was at first but heard workers at the facility describe him as “the guy who killed those college students.” Cipollina also claimed he repeatedly lifted his shirt up and she heard a guard telling Kohberger to put his pants back on. ...

The website also claims that Cipollina heard Kohberger singing the line ***** my enemies and [my] foes” from the Lil Wayne song “Multiple Flows,” along with “violent and misogynistic” lyrics from the Puerto Rican rapper Bad Bunny, though the report did not cite specific examples.

After being told to shut up by one guard, Kohberger allegedly replied by screaming: “Come in all of you. You scared of me? You should be scared of me. You’re going to do nothing to me because I’m going to cut all of you up,” allegedly adding: “Come into this cell and I’ll show you I’m a creeper.”
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William Parcher said:
Both options are coming from the Daily Mail. What happened to you?
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I said the claim might be BS. Not sure what you are on about.

Is it not possible he's acting weird in the jail?

1) Totally made up
2) Made up by the inmate
3) Setting the stage for an insanity plea
4) He is actually that insane*

*As opposed to just plain psycho-killer insane
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
I said the claim might be BS. Not sure what you are on about.

Is it not possible he's acting weird in the jail?

1) Totally made up
2) Made up by the inmate
3) Setting the stage for an insanity plea
4) He is actually that insane*

*As opposed to just plain psycho-killer insane
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It would seem totally out of character for Kohberger to have acted like a violent drunk in a police cell, given he claims to be innocent and wants to be 'exonerated' ASAP. Either this lady is lying in exchange for cash or she mistook some other person inside with her for Kohberger. Maybe a drunk who recognised him and started some 'cut me up' banter.

All very strange. If true, that can be used in evidence against him.
 
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/03/us/bryan-kohberger-idaho-killings-extradition-tuesday/index.html

The Monroe County Correctional Facility warden informed officials that Kohberger has been a “model prisoner” who has not caused any problems during his time in detention, according to a source familiar with Kohberger’s status at the facility.

Kohberger, considered a maximum status prisoner, is being held in a cell monitored by an officer at all times.

He has been “quiet” and “followed directions,” according to the source.
 
Jungle Jim said:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/03/us/bryan-kohberger-idaho-killings-extradition-tuesday/index.html

The Monroe County Correctional Facility warden informed officials that Kohberger has been a “model prisoner” who has not caused any problems during his time in detention, according to a source familiar with Kohberger’s status at the facility.
Kohberger, considered a maximum status prisoner, is being held in a cell monitored by an officer at all times.

He has been “quiet” and “followed directions,” according to the source.
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That’s your problem. Unless the statement comes from a spokesperson for the facility, why should anyone take notice of it?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I said the claim might be BS. Not sure what you are on about.
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It's absurd.

First, that this woman came into contact with the Daily Mail at all is worth scrutinizing. It's quite random. They've been known to just make stuff up to see how many outlets uncritically repeat it. I did some digging and at least the woman apparently exists and geographically the story is plausible.

Second, all she knows is someone else in the jail said that the person acting up was the guy. She wouldn't know him from Adam.

It's NYE, she's just been arrested, probably not sober and essentially in the drunk tank / holding cell, and some guy in a nearby cell is acting like a lunatic. Which is pretty standard especially on NYE, and some random tells her that this is the guy and she believes it. This isn't a small jail. The capacity is in the hundreds.

It's unlikely the jail design is such that their priority inmates are within view of the holding cell, but I've admittedly seen some dumb jail setups where suicide watch is visible from intake....

How this got to the Daily Mail is an interesting question. That it went anywhere and that other news orgs are amplifying it without independently confirming is a good example of the problems with modern media.
 
Side question: If he had fought extradition, so what? How often does one state actually refuse to extradite a suspect to another state? (I realize international extradition is more complicated.)
 
Bob001 said:
Side question: If he had fought extradition, so what? How often does one state actually refuse to extradite a suspect to another state? (I realize international extradition is more complicated.)
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Pretty much never.

Generally he could force the states to adhere to a formal process (Governor's Warrant, etc.) and then attack any defects in that process. Also a claim that he's not the person being sought or make some other argument about the demanding state having no recognizable claim or is going to treat them illegally, etc.

Which good luck with that one.

It's beyond rare for fighting extradition to be a good idea. As a general rule if someone is arrested in state A and state B wants to extradite, any time spend in state A while fighting extradition is not going to count against any sentence he gets in state B. The red tape around this can take months and a holding state usually isn't going to be all that eager to allow release on bond.


So just going to the demanding state and dealing with the case there is usually best.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Looks like the consensus is 1) Totally made up.
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Given there is evidence she exists and the town they said she was arrested in is actually in the correct location for the jail I'd lean more towards her being gullible while spending time in the drunk tank.

Now how on earth this ends up as an "exclusive" in a London "newspaper" is a whole thing though. Maybe social media or something? It isn't like the fail has beat reporters in the Poconos...
 
Two news sources, CNN and some local paper I don't want to hunt for, support the 'totally made up' hypothesis.


In other news of the weird kind:

Fox: Idaho murders: FBI directed Indiana police to pull over Bryan Kohberger, seeking video images of his hands
A Federal Bureau of Investigation surveillance team tracked Idaho quadruple murder suspect Bryan Kohberger and his father on a cross-country road trip from Washington State to Pennsylvania and asked Indiana police to pull him over, a law enforcement source told Fox News.

The law enforcement source told Fox News that the FBI surveillance team was seeking video images of Kohberger as well as his hands.
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Then there is this, more from Fox News, making me wonder if they waited for anyone to answer the door:

Idaho murders: PA police say 'force was used' when search warrant was executed at Kohberger [PA] home
STROUDSBURG, Pa. — Law enforcement officials broke windows and doors when executing an overnight search warrant in the arrest of Idaho quadruple murder suspect Bryan Kohberger, Pennsylvania police said Tuesday.

Pennsylvania State Police Maj. Christopher Paris said during an afternoon press conference that "force was used" to gain access to the Kohbergers' home during the early morning hours of Dec. 30 in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania.

"There were multiple windows that were broken, I believe, to gain access, as well as multiple doors," Paris said during the press conference Tuesday afternoon, adding that Bryan Kohberger's parents were home at the time.

Paris said that preparations for the search warrant's execution began on the evening of Dec. 29 and added that around 50 "tactical assets" were on scene.
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Tero said:
This case will require some physical evidence at the crime scene. Apparently he left DNA, and if he will agree to a sample, it may be over at that point.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/01/idaho-student-murders-bryan-christopher-kohberger

bar owner says he is creepy
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...comments-brewery-staff-customers-ow-rcna63847
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"Serulneck said Kohberger would ask the female staff or customers who they were at the brewery with, where they lived and what their work schedule was. He said if the women blew him off, “he would get upset with them a little bit,” noting that one time he called one of his staff members a disparaging term when she refused to answer his questions."

Certainly supports the incel hypothesis.
 
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