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Moo juice

Reivax

Critical Thinker
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
259
Does anyone here drink 'raw' milk, as in, fresh from the cow? I ask because my family has recently been offered some, free of charge, from an acquaintance dairy farmer. I understand that there is some debate about the health benefits/risks associated with its consumption. This arises due to the fact that raw milk is unhomogenized and unpasteurized.

What do you guys and girls think?

(If I do decide to drink it and get ill, that sucks. But I'm not going to hold any of you responsible, the decision is mine alone.) :p

Thanks in advance for your replies!
 
Does anyone here drink 'raw' milk, as in, fresh from the cow? I ask because my family has recently been offered some, free of charge, from an acquaintance dairy farmer. I understand that there is some debate about the health benefits/risks associated with its consumption. This arises due to the fact that raw milk is unhomogenized and unpasteurized.

What do you guys and girls think?

(If I do decide to drink it and get ill, that sucks. But I'm not going to hold any of you responsible, the decision is mine alone.) :p

Thanks in advance for your replies!
Milk stored at modern dairies are partially pasteurised anyway - before it goes into the holding vat.

Of 3 generations of my mother's dairy farming family drinking fresh milk from their farm, the only problem I have been aware of was my brother reacting with hives due to the richness of the "real" milk (us being the townies).

Given the health controls imposed on modern dairies these days, I very much doubt there are many/any health risks from drinking dairy fresh milk.

Oh, and yum....:drool:
 
A lot of the illnesses that used to be passed in the milk are now under control - like brucellosis. My state is brucellosis-free. If the dairy animals are not ill, and if the dairy has good practices for handling the milk, I say go for it.

I have dairy goats and drink and use the raw milk all the time BUT I know for a FACT that my goats have no illness because I draw blood at intervals and send it to the lab to have it tested. I also know that I handle the milk properly - in stainless containers that have been sterilized, chilled immediately and so on. As long as those things are true you are OK.

FYI homogenization is just to mix the milk up so it does not separate. See, the fat globules in cow milk are very large, and for this reason the cream rises readily to the top. What the homogenization does is break up these fat globules into much smaller pieces so that the cream will no longer rise to the top but stays a part of the milk. Goat milk, having very tiny fat globules, is naturally homogenized but that word just means that it all stays together as a whole - there is no health benefit to homogenization, it does not take out bacteria or anything.
 
I drank lots of raw milk as a kid. Not because of any real or imagined health benefits, just because the bulk tank was right there and the grocery store was all the way in town. :D

Raw milk is not the "Instant Disease Juice" a lot of people around here would have you believe. When taken from healthy cows in a clean environment it's perfectly fine to drink.

Enjoy.
 
I drank lots of raw milk as a kid. Not because of any real or imagined health benefits, just because the bulk tank was right there and the grocery store was all the way in town. :D

Raw milk is not the "Instant Disease Juice" a lot of people around here would have you believe. When taken from healthy cows in a clean environment it's perfectly fine to drink.

Enjoy.
And when it's not it often makes people sick and sometimes kills them.
Raw milk can harbour such wonderful organisms as almonellosis, campylobacteriosis, brucellosis, yersiniosis, listeriosis, staphylococcal enterotoxin poisoning, streptococcal infections, tuberculosis, E. Coli. and even rabies; with one US study showing coliform bacteria in ~62% of samples tested.
No significant health benefit, some risk. Not worth it.
Previous thread.
 
What do you guys and girls think?

Thanks in advance for your replies!

Hopefully your dairy farmer friend has some Brown Swiss dairy cows, these are the ones that have the best chocolate milk.
 
And when it's not it often makes people sick and sometimes kills them.
No significant health benefit, some risk. Not worth it.
Previous thread.

Where is the quote from? I searched online but could not find it... except right here on this forum... I'd like to read your source. Thanks!
 
Raw milk is probably pretty safe.

However, if you don't get it all the time, it is so valuable for making other things, so I personally would do that rather than drink it. Paneer, mozzarella, and clotted cream, for instance.
 
Raw milk is probably pretty safe.

However, if you don't get it all the time, it is so valuable for making other things, so I personally would do that rather than drink it. Paneer, mozzarella, and clotted cream, for instance.

Agreed! Hooray, another cheese maker!
 
As a youngster, hubby used to drink it (in a glass, okay?) straight from the cow and still warm.
 
Hey, there's nothing wrong about sucking it straight from the moo! (also, then you know it's pretty fresh)
 
Where is the quote from? I searched online but could not find it... except right here on this forum... I'd like to read your source. Thanks!
I believe it's from a documentary in the LA listeria outbreak (28 dead), referenced in one of the other raw milk threads.
ETA it may not be an exact transcription but it is accurate.
 
Another "The Glass is Always half-empty" type of post...

:rolleyes:

Please tell us that's sarcasm. This is not a question of being pessimistic but acknowledging a risk - one which is pointless and idiotic to take. Honestly, why do this? There is extremely minimal if any added health benefit and clearly a potentially serious risk, even if you "know" it's safe and the risk is modest. Maybe if you have your own cow and are REALLY hard up for cash-? :boggled: Sounds like something out of a Jack n the beanstalk story.
 
This is not a question of being pessimistic but acknowledging a risk - one which is pointless and idiotic to take. Honestly, why do this?

But, but...but..it's for free!

But seriously, how big is the risk?
We used to drink a lot of fresh cow milk and my grandparents probably drank it exclusively.
You cannot let your life be ruled and dictated by all kinds of things that might just possibly happen.
 
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TB is carried by raw milk.

This is from the NM state livestock board website:

Once the most prevalent infectious disease of cattle and swine in the United States, bovine TB caused more losses among U.S. farm animals in the early part of the twentieth century than all other infectious diseases combined. Begun in 1917, the Cooperative State/Federal TB Eradication Program, which is administered by Veterinary Services, State animal health agencies, and U.S. livestock producers, has nearly eradicated bovine TB from the Nation's livestock population.

Source.

Modern veterinary practices are FAR advanced from what they once were. There would be NO POINT in doing any of that, if the animals continued to carry the exact same amount of disease! Not only do the states use very strict regulations about things like dairy cattle and goats, the USDA is also very strict. These scientific measures actually work. That means the dairy animals of today are far healthier, and carry far less pathogens, then the dairy animals of 100 years ago.

A lot of people have a knee-jerk reaction to the idea that raw milk could possibly be safe. Pasteurization is a wonderful tool, but it's even more wonderful if the diseases are wiped out (just like some diseases in human beings have been wiped out), or the animals are inoculated and routinely tested for disease and so it makes no sense to continue worrying about them *at the same rate*.

Am I saying it's 100% safe everywhere all the time for everyone? NO. I am not saying that. What I am saying is the risk is nowhere NEAR what it used to be, thanks to modern veterinary practices and regulations imposed by states and government.

This is from an article about the listeriosis outbreak that I *think* is the one referred to earlier:

Alta-Dena was then the largest dairy in California, and Listeria was never found in its milk or herds. It was found in abundance at the Jalisco plant, where unlicensed employees were being allowed to pasteurize milk.

and from the same article:

In the end, the exact cause of the contamination remained unknown. The pasteurization methods were faulty, the Jalisco plant was unsanitary and, contrary to the jury verdict, the raw milk from Alta-Dena remained the primary suspect.

Source.

And the most recent outbreak of listeriosis is from cantaloupe. Yes; it *can* be in raw milk, but it can also be in cantaloupe. It can be just about anywhere.

Also, please be aware that pasteurization will not stop listeriosis.

If you are a reasonably healthy person who does not have a compromised immune system, then in this day and age it is not nearly as risky for you to drink raw milk which has come from healthy tested animals and is handled properly. The risk is no where near what seems to be being said here. This isn't the dark ages; we have proven scientific methods for reducing disease in livestock, such as vaccinations and better management practices, and they actually work. And frankly you can still be at some risk drinking or eating anything whatsoever.
 
Does anyone here drink 'raw' milk, as in, fresh from the cow? I ask because my family has recently been offered some, free of charge, from an acquaintance dairy farmer. I understand that there is some debate about the health benefits/risks associated with its consumption. This arises due to the fact that raw milk is unhomogenized and unpasteurized.

What do you guys and girls think?

(If I do decide to drink it and get ill, that sucks. But I'm not going to hold any of you responsible, the decision is mine alone.) :p

Thanks in advance for your replies!

I have drank "raw" milk and consider fresh from the teat (with a bit of chilling) to be the best tasting milk around. I wouldn't recpmmend it for every one, as it is extremely difficult to keep for any length of time in this state. The big problems with most consumer milk are in the high heat fast pasteurization which dramatically alters the taste, and in the homogenization and blending of the milk from multiple entire herds of animals. I prefer unhomogenized milk pasteurized using the slow and low (low heat ~ 145°F for ~30 minutes) method, which come from heritage breed family milk cows,...but it is difficult and expensive to be so choosey.
 
FYI homogenization is just to mix the milk up so it does not separate.

It's possible to buy unhomogenized (but still pasteurized) milk commercially.

BTW, since this thread is somewhat random anyways, check out this milk. It might not seem like anything remarkable at first glance, but read through the customer reviews to see how glorious it really is.
 
I grew up on raw milk, and find the stuff now available pretty much unpalatable. That said, a good part of this had to do not with the rawness, but with the fact that it was also unhomogenized, unskimmed milk from grass fed guernsey cows. It was rich, creamy and delicious. It was also rigorously tested and monitored by a family farm that took great pride in its product.

I know many people would contend that milk is milk and you can't tell the difference, but I have tasted enough truly fine milk to know that it makes a difference what kind of cows produced it, and what they ate.

If you trust the testing and sanitation of the farm in question, then I see no reason not to drink the milk. If you like the idea but don't quite trust the rawness, perhaps you could pasteurize it yourself. I don't think it's all that hard to do.
 

Read this: Link and then read this.

The FDA published that news release before their test results were even in. And once the test results were in, exonerating that farm... where is the news release for that?

I'll be the first to admit there are some goofy people on the "let's all drink raw milk because god wants us to" band wagon. But there are some EQUALLY goofy people on the "raw milk can kill you from 30 paces" band wagon. And unfortunately some of them work for the FDA.
 
This is actually a big debate in New Jersey right now. It is illegal to sell raw milk in the state, for health reasons. So people are driving to Pennsylvania to get their raw milk. As an Animal Science professor, I don't see the issue in raw milk IF the dairy is run in a clean manner, with proper testing, etc. The problem is, the IF part. Some dairies are run quite nicely, others not so much. But with proper oversight, I don't understand why our state doesn't revise the current ban.
 
Free milk? Fresh from the farm? Good heavens, yes, take it! There are few things better, in my opinion. Real cream for your berries or coffee.. yum! Others have already brought up making cheese, making your own butter is also quite easy, and so delicious.

If you are concerned, you know, it also is quite simple to pasteurize the milk at home.
 
As a youngster, hubby used to drink it (in a glass, okay?) straight from the cow and still warm.

Um, I see nothing wrong with this. We used to squirt it right into our mouths when we were milking the cows. You get enough pressure that you don't even have to get close to the utters. I remember it being nice and warm but actually a little too creamy for my taste.
 
But, but...but..it's for free!

But seriously, how big is the risk?
We used to drink a lot of fresh cow milk and my grandparents probably drank it exclusively.
You cannot let your life be ruled and dictated by all kinds of things that might just possibly happen.
From the FDA:
Have any illnesses or deaths been caused by consuming raw milk products?

Based on CDC data, literature, and state and local reports, FDA compiled a list of outbreaks that occurred in the U.S. from 1987 to September 2010. During the 27-year period, there were at least 133 outbreaks due to the consumption of raw milk and raw milk products. These outbreaks caused 2,659 cases of illnesses, 269 hospitalizations, 3 deaths, 6 stillbirths and 2 miscarriages. Because not all cases of foodborne illness are recognized and reported, the actual number of illnesses associated with raw milk likely is greater.
[Bolding mine]
Note that this compilation started after the 1985 LA listeria outbreak, which killed 48 people, caused by cheese made from unpasteurised milk.

So, some risk, no benefits, no thanks.
 
From the FDA:
[Bolding mine]
Note that this compilation started after the 1985 LA listeria outbreak, which killed 48 people, caused by cheese made from unpasteurised milk.

So, some risk, no benefits, no thanks.

Are you reading the same thread you're posting in?
 
TB is carried by raw milk.
So is rabies......... There have been at least two cases of people in the US requiring treatment after consuming unpasteurised milk from cows with rabies, there are ~150 cases of bovine rabies in the US each year.
 
So is rabies......... There have been at least two cases of people in the US requiring treatment after consuming unpasteurised milk from cows with rabies, there are ~150 cases of bovine rabies in the US each year.

alarm·ism
noun \ə-ˈlär-ˌmi-zəm\
Definition of ALARMISM
: the often unwarranted exciting of fears or warning of danger

*ETA

Most healthy people who drank the milk or cream are not at risk for contracting rabies, Garner said. However, people with certain medical conditions, including suppressed immune systems or oral sores, should call the Health Department to determine whether post-exposure treatment is needed.

Delicious Sauce
 
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Wow
Some, like Wisconsin raw-milk champion Max Kane, dismiss infectious disease altogether: "The bacteria theory's a total myth," Kane told one interviewer. "It allows us to have an enemy to go after similar to how it is with terrorism. It's food terrorism."
The loons are out.........

And I learned something I didn't know before, Edsel Ford died of brucellosis from raw milk.
 
Wow
The loons are out.........

And I learned something I didn't know before, Edsel Ford died of brucellosis from raw milk.
... in 1943 ...

Oh, and the Wiki entry for him has this as "citation required" and cause of his death as stomach cancer...
 
Having worked on a dairy farm, you couldn't pay me to drink raw milk from cows. It's disgusting.
 
Free milk? Fresh from the farm? Good heavens, yes, take it! There are few things better, in my opinion. Real cream for your berries or coffee.. yum! Others have already brought up making cheese, making your own butter is also quite easy, and so delicious.

If you are concerned, you know, it also is quite simple to pasteurize the milk at home.

And again, from my personal perspective, low heat over longer time is much better (less affects taste) than brief periods of high heat. It is time consuming and thus more expensive to do this in a large dairy operation, but at home the time is your own and the taste difference is significant. From the standpoint of the typical bacteria in milk it doesn't much matter if you heat the milk to 145 for 30 minutes or to 280 degrees for 2 seconds, but from a taste standpoint, which is my primary concern, the difference between the gently warmed milk and singed moo-juice is distinct and easily discernable.
 
And again, from my personal perspective, low heat over longer time is much better (less affects taste) than brief periods of high heat. It is time consuming and thus more expensive to do this in a large dairy operation, but at home the time is your own and the taste difference is significant. From the standpoint of the typical bacteria in milk it doesn't much matter if you heat the milk to 145 for 30 minutes or to 280 degrees for 2 seconds, but from a taste standpoint, which is my primary concern, the difference between the gently warmed milk and singed moo-juice is distinct and easily discernable.

From my own very small experiments with my own family and our fresh goat milk, we could not taste a difference between milk pasteurized at 145F for 30 minutes or 165F for 15 seconds. The latter I found easier and faster to do.
 
From my own very small experiments with my own family and our fresh goat milk, we could not taste a difference between milk pasteurized at 145F for 30 minutes or 165F for 15 seconds. The latter I found easier and faster to do.

Perhaps the slightly higher goat-milk fats and slightly lower sugar content make a difference. It may be the partial carmelizations of bovine lactose that messes with the flavor. One the other hand the amino acid chains and content of goat and cow milk are very different as well, and in goat milk the medium length chains are much more resitant to changes in temperature than the ones found in cow milk.
 

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