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Medium finds missing woman in UK river

Vixen said:
You are just not getting that the public knows only 10% of what the police knows. The detectives leading this were the highly specialised Serious and Organised Crime squad. You know, softly, softly...?


Very little of what they have done is by accident.

BTW the press get tip-offs from the police all the time.
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Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that you meant to write "Serious Organised Crime Agency" (a thing that actually existed), I still doubt that they were involved in this investigation, what with their ceasing to exist in 2013: A bloody decade ago.

Also, Softly, Softly was a TV show. Not real, to clarify.
 
Vixen said:
You have it back to front. Mr. Rothwell rings Lancs Police. Someone at Lancs police tips off Mr. Neill (maybe someone he knows as it is a close-knit community) is how it happens. Not that we know whether this happened but there would be nothing remarkable about Mr. Neill having turned up because of a dicky bird whispering in his ear.
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That's not what you said just now.
IMV more likely Mr. Neill had a tip-off, as did Mr. Rothwell -the tip off being from police and detective sources as it was known the tide was due to rise as of that date due to the new moon - spring tides and all that.
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junkshop said:
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that you meant to write "Serious Organised Crime Agency" (a thing that actually existed), I still doubt that they were involved in this investigation, what with their ceasing to exist in 2013: A bloody decade ago.

Also, Softly, Softly was a TV show. Not real, to clarify.
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SIO Rebecca Smith of Lancs Police heads the Serious and Organised Crime division.


Softly, softly is actually a saying.

Are we now going to have a long argument?
 
Vixen said:
SIO Rebecca Smith of Lancs Police heads the Serious and Organised Crime division...
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This may well be the case, however I have been unable to verify it. Do you have a citation, or a link, or something?

ETA: You claimed an unevidenced 'squad', I countered with an evidenced, but defunct 'Agency', and you come back with an unevidenced 'division'.
You're not just making **** up, are you? Pleaae tell me that's not the case. Provide evidence that the Lancashire Police has a 'Serious and Organised Crime squad', or a 'Serious and Organised Crine division', and that Rebecca Smith it's head.

Vixen said:
...Softly, softly is actually a saying...
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A fair cop, I was being a facetious arse there, sorry.

Vixen said:
...Are we now going to have a long argument?
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I hope not, but only time will tell.
 
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Vixen said:
Jack by the hedge said:
Just because I can't read the police's minds doesn't mean any obviously mad thing you can think of their doing might be true. Also there is absolutely no hint of a serious organised crime here.

You're pretending (I hope) to imagine the police had a good idea of when and where the body would appear and didn't just go there and find it themselves.

Instead, you propose, they chose some obscure guy who lives in another town and told him when and where to look. And they contacted a freelance photographer to come along and photograph the events.

Well, why? Why would it be important for the police to deliberately fail to find the body themselves?

What was their plan if it had rained and Rothwell hadn't bothered to turn up?
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You have it back to front. Mr. Rothwell rings Lancs Police. Someone at Lancs police tips off Mr. Neill (maybe someone he knows as it is a close-knit community) is how it happens. Not that we know whether this happened but there would be nothing remarkable about Mr. Neill having turned up because of a dicky bird whispering in his ear.
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He doesn't "have it back to front". The suggestion that Roswell was tipped off by the police came from you:
Vixen said:
IMV more likely Mr. Neill had a tip-off, as did Mr. Rothwell -the tip off being from police and detective sources as it was known the tide was due to rise as of that date due to the new moon - spring tides and all that.
Click to expand...
 
Vixen said:
Answering two different posts in two different contexts.
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Nope, the context for the post that you claimed had it back to front was your suggestion that the police tipped off Roswell.

To refresh your memory, here's the chain of posts from one to the other:
Vixen said:
It might well be the case he just happened to be passing. However, as someone who is sceptical that 'things happen accidentally' insofar if one looks at the sequence of events that leads up to most 'accidents' or 'chance' events, things are rarely accidental at all. Did the appearance of Ms. Bulley's body, the psychic medium and the press photograph all convene by random chance? I don't know. Maybe. IMV more likely Mr. Neill had a tip-off, as did Mr. Rothwell -the tip off being from police and detective sources as it was known the tide was due to rise as of that date due to the new moon - spring tides and all that.
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Jack by the hedge said:
You're just making up any old mad **** now to get a reaction. Right?

You appear now to be trying to convince us you believe Rothwell and Neill were both advised by the police to go to the river, as the police had looked at the tide tables and decided this would be an auspicious time for searching.

Are you going to tell us why you imagine the police might think it important to encourage some obscure, self-described medium who lives miles away to travel there to find the body and for Neill to be there to photograph him?

If the police had an insight as to when the body was likely to appear, why did they not just look for it themselves? This appears quite unhinged.
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Vixen said:
You are just not getting that the public knows only 10% of what the police knows. The detectives leading this were the highly specialised Serious and Organised Crime squad. You know, softly, softly...?


Very little of what they have done is by accident.

BTW the press get tip-offs from the police all the time.
Click to expand...

Jack by the hedge said:
Just because I can't read the police's minds doesn't mean any obviously mad thing you can think of their doing might be true. Also there is absolutely no hint of a serious organised crime here.

You're pretending (I hope) to imagine the police had a good idea of when and where the body would appear and didn't just go there and find it themselves.

Instead, you propose, they chose some obscure guy who lives in another town and told him when and where to look. And they contacted a freelance photographer to come along and photograph the events.

Well, why? Why would it be important for the police to deliberately fail to find the body themselves?

What was their plan if it had rained and Rothwell hadn't bothered to turn up?
Click to expand...

Vixen said:
You have it back to front. Mr. Rothwell rings Lancs Police. Someone at Lancs police tips off Mr. Neill (maybe someone he knows as it is a close-knit community) is how it happens. Not that we know whether this happened but there would be nothing remarkable about Mr. Neill having turned up because of a dicky bird whispering in his ear.
Click to expand...
 
junkshop said:
This may well be the case, however I have been unable to verify it. Do you have a citation, or a link, or something?

ETA: You claimed an unevidenced 'squad', I countered with an evidenced, but defunct 'Agency', and you come back with an unevidenced 'division'.
You're not just making **** up, are you? Pleaae tell me that's not the case. Provide evidence that the Lancashire Police has a 'Serious and Organised Crime squad', or a 'Serious and Organised Crine division', and that Rebecca Smith it's head.
Click to expand...



Well, there is a Wikipedia natation of...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancashire_Constabulary

G Division
Headquarters; encompassing the Force Intelligence Department (F.I.D), Serious Organised Crime Unit (S.O.C.U) and Special Branch (S.B)
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Though, the head of it wasn't indicated, good idea. I expect it as the next gish gallopb, trying to bring organized crime into the conspiratorial undercover police psychic narrative. Are clandestine submarine(s) next, for the release of the body, in the hypothetical arguments that are the cluster **** of this thread?
 
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Mojo said:
Nope, the context for the post that you claimed had it back to front was your suggestion that the police tipped off Roswell.

To refresh your memory, here's the chain of posts from one to the other:
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Yeah, context is the surrounding aspects of what one says. Changing what you specifically said is just a change of text, not context.
 
Vixen said:
Softly, softly is actually a saying.
Click to expand...

Yes, or rather it's half of a saying: "softly, softly, catchee monkey". And it has a meaning; take care not to alarm your target if you want to catch it.

I'm genuinely puzzled. You clearly imply you were not merely naming the old tv drama about police detectives. In that case, what relevance did you feel that saying has to this case?
 
Vixen said:
It might well be the case he just happened to be passing. However, as someone who is sceptical that 'things happen accidentally' insofar if one looks at the sequence of events that leads up to most 'accidents' or 'chance' events, things are rarely accidental at all. Did the appearance of Ms. Bulley's body, the psychic medium and the press photograph all convene by random chance? I don't know. Maybe. IMV more likely Mr. Neill had a tip-off, as did Mr. Rothwell -the tip off being from police and detective sources as it was known the tide was due to rise as of that date due to the new moon - spring tides and all that.
Click to expand...


If the police had that information at hand.... why on Earth would they bother "tipping off" a pretend-spiritualist, such that said pretend-spiritualist could be the one to find the body?

Why wouldn't the police simply have used that intelligence to post officers in that part of the river and thus find the body themselves (and, by doing so, make themselves look competent and professional)?


Note that I don't actually put it beyond the police to have tipped off a press photographer, but only to be present when the police found the body - it's hardly unknown for brown envelopes to change hands on that basis (even if the copper in question only gets something like £50 - it's easy money for a quick phone call/text, and "nobody gets hurt"). But I can conceive of no reason whatsoever why the police would tip off a fraudulent "medium" - and not only that, one who was from well outside the local area and was thus very unlikely to have any existing relationships with any of the relevant police officers on the case.
 
Vixen said:
SIO Rebecca Smith of Lancs Police heads the Serious and Organised Crime division.


Softly, softly is actually a saying.

Are we now going to have a long argument?
Click to expand...


Firstly, as you've already been told, the Serious Organised Crime Agency (SOCA - and note it was never called the "Serious and Organised Crime Agency") went out of existence several years ago. Its successor organisation is called the National Crime Agency (NCA).

Secondly, Detective Superintendent Rebecca Smith has never had anything whatsoever to do with either SOCA or NCA. She's simply a detective in the CID at Lancashire Police.

Why do you make stuff up so often? Do you never bother to do any actual research?
 
junkshop said:
This may well be the case, however I have been unable to verify it. Do you have a citation, or a link, or something?

ETA: You claimed an unevidenced 'squad', I countered with an evidenced, but defunct 'Agency', and you come back with an unevidenced 'division'.
You're not just making **** up, are you? Pleaae tell me that's not the case. Provide evidence that the Lancashire Police has a 'Serious and Organised Crime squad', or a 'Serious and Organised Crine division', and that Rebecca Smith it's head.
Click to expand...


Vixen has pulled all of the above straight out of her nether regions.

Smith is simply a Detective Superintendent in the Lancs Police CID.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-smith-3360a8127

Furthermore, in a fairly common-or-garden missing persons enquiry where the missing person was judged to be vulnerable and at risk of harm, nothing more than a regular CID team would ever be deployed. The notion that Bulley's disappearance would ever have been categorised as "serious" crime (let alone organised crime....) is simply ridiculous. Vixen is lying or mistaken. My money is on the former.
 
LondonJohn said:
If the police had that information at hand.... why on Earth would they bother "tipping off" a pretend-spiritualist, such that said pretend-spiritualist could be the one to find the body?

Why wouldn't the police simply have used that intelligence to post officers in that part of the river and thus find the body themselves (and, by doing so, make themselves look competent and professional)?


Note that I don't actually put it beyond the police to have tipped off a press photographer, but only to be present when the police found the body - it's hardly unknown for brown envelopes to change hands on that basis (even if the copper in question only gets something like £50 - it's easy money for a quick phone call/text, and "nobody gets hurt"). But I can conceive of no reason whatsoever why the police would tip off a fraudulent "medium" - and not only that, one who was from well outside the local area and was thus very unlikely to have any existing relationships with any of the relevant police officers on the case.
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Ah, then he must have been an undercover officer himself.

The problem with conspiracy theories, beside the lack of acceptance of simple probabilistic chance. One ridiculous conspiratorial hypothetical feeds into another.

ETA: That a certain set of conditions is probabilistically unlikely doesn't mean that it can't happen. Just that on average it will tend to happen less often than a more probable set of conditions. Winning the lottery vs just losing it, again (respectively). What's his psychic being an undercover officer is just beyond the pale of probability and into pure conspiratorial fantasy.
 
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LondonJohn said:
If the police had that information at hand.... why on Earth would they bother "tipping off" a pretend-spiritualist, such that said pretend-spiritualist could be the one to find the body?

Why wouldn't the police simply have used that intelligence to post officers in that part of the river and thus find the body themselves (and, by doing so, make themselves look competent and professional)?


Note that I don't actually put it beyond the police to have tipped off a press photographer, but only to be present when the police found the body - it's hardly unknown for brown envelopes to change hands on that basis (even if the copper in question only gets something like £50 - it's easy money for a quick phone call/text, and "nobody gets hurt"). But I can conceive of no reason whatsoever why the police would tip off a fraudulent "medium" - and not only that, one who was from well outside the local area and was thus very unlikely to have any existing relationships with any of the relevant police officers on the case.
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Ah, but don’t forget, according to Vixen, the medium is an undercover policeman, so it would be the police tipping off the police. Not sure that makes any more sense, but there you are.
 
Vixen said:
Seen on twitter: More proof that the Simpsons predict the future. This is from the Moonshine River episode 2012.


52828018036_aa81363a70_c.jpg



<sfx theme from the Twilight Zone>
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That still does not appear in that episode, in fact there isn't anything even close to that picture. Its Season 24 Episode 1 if anyone else wants to double check.
 
Agatha said:
That still does not appear in that episode, in fact there isn't anything even close to that picture. Its Season 24 Episode 1 if anyone else wants to double check.
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I instinctively thought it was near-certain that this was a fake, altered/concocted by some saddo in his/her bedroom for some sort of strange assumed kudos. But I didn't have the inclination to look into it further.

Some people are sufficiently gullible and credulous to accept this sort of stuff at face value. Most critical thinkers are not.
 
Agatha said:
That still does not appear in that episode, in fact there isn't anything even close to that picture. Its Season 24 Episode 1 if anyone else wants to double check.
Click to expand...


Wait, we were supposed to think that was an actual frame from an actual Simpson's episode?

I suppose some modern animated shows might use a style where objects and characters are pasted slapdash over backgrounds without regard to scale or perspective, but The Simpsons isn't one of those.
 
Myriad said:
Wait, we were supposed to think that was an actual frame from an actual Simpson's episode?
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My spirit guide tells me we will shortly be supposed to think that Vixen was never taken in by it and only in passing mentioned the episode it was supposedly from because something something.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Yes, or rather it's half of a saying: "softly, softly, catchee monkey". And it has a meaning; take care not to alarm your target if you want to catch it.

I'm genuinely puzzled. You clearly imply you were not merely naming the old tv drama about police detectives. In that case, what relevance did you feel that saying has to this case?
Click to expand...


Well, obviously the police wouldn't want to tip the conspirators off that they had found the body, so they called in a cop who was working undercover as a medium, and sent for a press photographer to take pictures.
 
LondonJohn said:
If the police had that information at hand.... why on Earth would they bother "tipping off" a pretend-spiritualist, such that said pretend-spiritualist could be the one to find the body?

Why wouldn't the police simply have used that intelligence to post officers in that part of the river and thus find the body themselves (and, by doing so, make themselves look competent and professional)?
Click to expand...

If they did that, they'd be letting the cat out of the bag. Everyone would figure out that the cops have tide charts. Once that's known, what's to stop the bad guys from using tide charts?

No, it had to be this way. It had to be a medium who discovered the body so that the secret tide charts wouldn't become public knowledge.
 
phiwum said:
If they did that, they'd be letting the cat out of the bag. Everyone would figure out that the cops have tide charts. Once that's known, what's to stop the bad guys from using tide charts?

No, it had to be this way. It had to be a medium who discovered the body so that the secret tide charts wouldn't become public knowledge.
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We all know that the only person that can stop a bad guy with a tide chart is a good guy Medium with a tide chart.
 
junkshop said:
This may well be the case, however I have been unable to verify it. Do you have a citation, or a link, or something?

ETA: You claimed an unevidenced 'squad', I countered with an evidenced, but defunct 'Agency', and you come back with an unevidenced 'division'.
You're not just making **** up, are you? Pleaae tell me that's not the case. Provide evidence that the Lancashire Police has a 'Serious and Organised Crime squad', or a 'Serious and Organised Crine division', and that Rebecca Smith it's head.



A fair cop, I was being a facetious arse there, sorry.



I hope not, but only time will tell.
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I am not going to argue about facts. Might I suggest you look up the facts of the case.
 
Vixen said:
I am not going to argue about facts. Might I suggest you look up the facts of the case.
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That's been evident for 50+pages. There's a raging torrent of other posts you might want to hide from answer since that one you avoided.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Yes, or rather it's half of a saying: "softly, softly, catchee monkey". And it has a meaning; take care not to alarm your target if you want to catch it.

I'm genuinely puzzled. You clearly imply you were not merely naming the old tv drama about police detectives. In that case, what relevance did you feel that saying has to this case?
Click to expand...

Of course I can remember the tv series Softly Softly and even the theme tune which is vaguely not dissimilar to 'Through the Night of Doubt and Sorrow', which could even be my signature tune here sometimes.

However, I knew of the phrase before the aptly name series; apposite because these guys do not give you a running commentary whislt they investigate. So there is your answer your bewilderment as to 'How come I don't know what what they might have been doing? Der, I haven't seen it in the DAILY HORROR so it can't be true until I have'.
 
LondonJohn said:
Firstly, as you've already been told, the Serious Organised Crime Agency (SOCA - and note it was never called the "Serious and Organised Crime Agency") went out of existence several years ago. Its successor organisation is called the National Crime Agency (NCA).

Secondly, Detective Superintendent Rebecca Smith has never had anything whatsoever to do with either SOCA or NCA. She's simply a detective in the CID at Lancashire Police.

Why do you make stuff up so often? Do you never bother to do any actual research?
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Have a go at the person who made the claim.
 
Vixen said:
Of course I can remember the tv series Softly Softly and even the theme tune which is vaguely not dissimilar to 'Through the Night of Doubt and Sorrow', which could even be my signature tune here sometimes.

However, I knew of the phrase before the aptly name series; apposite because these guys do not give you a running commentary whislt they investigate. So there is your answer your bewilderment as to 'How come I don't know what what they might have been doing? Der, I haven't seen it in the DAILY HORROR so it can't be true until I have'.
Click to expand...

So how is it that you know the minutiae of the case, even down to the 'deep undercover operatives? Or perhaps you don't and your numerous posts have been made up out of whole cloth?
 
LondonJohn said:
Vixen has pulled all of the above straight out of her nether regions.

Smith is simply a Detective Superintendent in the Lancs Police CID.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-smith-3360a8127

Furthermore, in a fairly common-or-garden missing persons enquiry where the missing person was judged to be vulnerable and at risk of harm, nothing more than a regular CID team would ever be deployed. The notion that Bulley's disappearance would ever have been categorised as "serious" crime (let alone organised crime....) is simply ridiculous. Vixen is lying or mistaken. My money is on the former.
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I have to say I am shocked but hardly surprised by the level of ignorance about the case.
 
Rebecca Smith is SIO head of Serious and Organised Crime at Lancs Police. I am astonished that people have no idea of some of the breakthrough cases she has been involved in, usually around the Blackpool/Fylde area but she was brought in to head the Nicola Bulley disappearance with forty highly specialist detectives under her. This isn't just County Lines and minor serious crime, these cases she has busted have been mafia-led drug smuggling gangs.

 
Vixen said:
You disingenuously introduced the topic of the SOCA.
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Do you have problems with short term memory? Maybe reading comprehension? I did not introduce SOCA, disingenuously or otherwise.


ETA: From your own three-year-old youtube link, Smith is, or was then, head of the Force Serious Crime Team.

Not
Vixen said:
...SIO head of Serious and Organised Crime at Lancs Police...
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Not head of
Vixen said:
..the Serious and Organised Crime division...
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Nor the
Vixen said:
...highly specialised Serious and Organised Crime squad...
Click to expand...
 
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junkshop said:
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that you meant to write "Serious Organised Crime Agency" (a thing that actually existed), I still doubt that they were involved in this investigation, what with their ceasing to exist in 2013: A bloody decade ago.

Also, Softly, Softly was a TV show. Not real, to clarify.
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Certainty was. From the same era, Crown Court is now being rebroadcast on the Talking Movies channel. 50 years on.
 
Vixen said:
Rebecca Smith is SIO head of Serious and Organised Crime at Lancs Police. I am astonished that people have no idea of some of the breakthrough cases she has been involved in, usually around the Blackpool/Fylde area but she was brought in to head the Nicola Bulley disappearance with forty highly specialist detectives under her. This isn't just County Lines and minor serious crime, these cases she has busted have been mafia-led drug smuggling gangs.

Click to expand...


That video was from three years ago. She's now a Detective Superintendent in general CID.
 
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