Marcellus Williams' imminent execution

Chris_Halkides

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"A Missouri judge held an evidentiary hearing Wednesday over the innocence claim of death row inmate Marcellus Williams, whose quest to prove he did not murder a woman in 1998 has been complicated by contaminated DNA evidence." CNN From what I can gather, there was none of Mr. Williams' DNA on the knife. However, the prosecutor (and others?) handled the knife without gloves.

"Bailey’s office has also suggested that other evidence points to Williams’s guilt, including testimony from a man who shared a cell with Williams and said he confessed, and testimony from a girlfriend who claimed she saw stolen items in Williams’s car. Williams’s attorneys, however, contended that both of those witnesses were not reliable, saying they had been convicted of felonies and were motivated to testify by a $10,000 reward offer." Guardian. USA Today wrote, "Williams' attorneys have argued that both informants stood to benefit from their cooperation with prosecutors, and that their stories sometimes changed or conflicted with other details about the killing. Both witnesses have since died." Jailhouse informants are not highly regarded as sources of information.

Michael Cohen wrote, "There is no physical or forensic evidence linking Williams to the crime scene. Fingerprints taken at the crime scene were inexplicably destroyed. Neither bloodied footprints nor hair at the crime scene could be linked to to Williams." MSNBC. USA Today wrote, "Among the evidence police collected: bloody shoeprints and fingerprints, a knife sheath and the suspect's hair collected from Gayle's shirt, hands and the floor." I cannot possibly think of a good reason to destroy fingermark evidence. Microscopic examination of hair followed by mitochondrial DNA testing is highly probative.

His execution is set for tonight.
EDT
The Innocence Project summed up the testimony of the two witnesses: "Both of these individuals were known fabricators; neither revealed any information that was not either included in media accounts about the case or already known to the police. Their statements were inconsistent with their own prior statements, with each other’s accounts, and with the crime scene evidence, and none of the information they provided could be independently verified."
 
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I saw this comment after a linked NYT article:

"He was accused of killing Felica Gayle. Their only evidence was two witnesses, his girlfriend and a girl he met in jail, and that he had the laptop that the victim owned. But the two girls knew each other AND his girlfriend gave him the laptop. If anything, I think the girlfriend is the murderer and the girl he met in jail is trying to cover up for her. Plus, the prosecutors found out the person who killed Gayle wasn't wearing a glove, so they took a DNA test and the DNA didn't match William's DNA. He is innocent, and his girlfriend should be the suspect, not him."

Adds some detail if these facts are correct.
 
I saw in one of the links that Williams said the laptop was given to him by one of the witnesses who testified against him and that the jury didn't hear this. This would potentially implicate her in some type of involvement with the crime either directly or indirectly and give another motive to for her to testify against him. But the fact the jury didn't hear this (not clear why) looks to be only one of many things wrong with this case.
 
The sad thing is he's already dead. This is Missouri we're talking about. No chance anyone pardons him and it seems the legal system is more concerned about looking right than being right.

I feel bad for him. He's in a **** place and no one can save him. It's one of the only reasons I hope there is a hell. So that everyone that was complicit in him being put to death gets a first class ticket.
 
From the Hill

"Moments before, the Supreme Court denied his emergency requests to halt the execution. The three justices appointed by Democratic presidents, Justices Sonia Sotomayor, Elena Kagan and Ketanji Brown Jackson, voted to block it."

This is so fundamentally ridiculous that a man's execution splits on party lines.
 
Blame the people you love so much. Trump put the judges on the bench that blocked it.
I believe it is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time.
Truth before tribe should be the model in criminal justice.
 
Predictably, the SCOTUS allowed the execution to go ahead.

Supreme Court allows execution of Marcellus Williams in Missouri, denying bid for delay

The Supreme Court on Tuesday rejected a bid to stop the execution of Missouri death row inmate Marcellus Williams, who was convicted in the 1998 stabbing death of Felicia Gayle in a St. Louis suburb.

Williams, who has maintained his innocence, is set to be put to death by lethal injection at 6 p.m. CT.

Whether guilty or innocent, he'll be dead in a few minutes.

I don't know whether he did it or not, but this case sure smells like a dead mackerel.
 
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Disclaimer that I am very anti capital punishment. I've been paying a little attention to this, probably less than I should have.

It shakes faith in the judicial/legal system at large. From what I've read and seen, there was more than enough evidence to stop it if just for a little more time to look further.

People like to think that there are no executions for innocent people. Time has shown that death row prisoners have been exonerated with less evidence. It's a sad day.

And yeah, to make it political, I think Trump's SC picks helped let it happen.
 
Disclaimer that I am very anti capital punishment. I've been paying a little attention to this, probably less than I should have.

It shakes faith in the judicial/legal system at large. From what I've read and seen, there was more than enough evidence to stop it if just for a little more time to look further.

People like to think that there are no executions for innocent people. Time has shown that death row prisoners have been exonerated with less evidence. It's a sad day.

And yeah, to make it political, I think Trump's SC picks helped let it happen.
Yes Newsweek makes it explicit

"Marcellus Williams' death penalty case pitted liberal Supreme Court justices against conservative justices and the divide among the court is something rarely seen in requests for stays of execution."

https://www.newsweek.com/marcellus-williams-missouri-execution-creates-supreme-court-divide-1958926
 
Another grave, racist injustice. May his memory be a blessing.
 
The Intercept reported, "While that review [of the Marcellus Williams case] was ongoing for most of the last six years, the board never submitted a final report or recommendation to the governor, as the law requires. Instead, last June, Gov. Mike Parson announced that he was rescinding his predecessor’s order, effectively dissolving the panel that had been reinvestigating the case...Asaro claimed that Williams had scratches on his face the day of the murder, yet no foreign DNA was recovered from under Picus’s fingernails...loody shoeprints found at the scene were a different size than Williams’s feet. Fingerprints lifted by investigators were deemed unusable by the state and then destroyed before the defense had a chance to analyze them."

I don't consider myself an expert in fingerprints and fingermarks, but "unusable" is vague. A fingermark might not be of sufficient quality to allow an identification, but it might be sufficient for an exclusion: Suppose that a fingermark was a plain whorl and a person's reference print was a radial loop. That would exclude the maker of the reference print as the donor of the mark.
 
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It seems that evidence became irrelevant, only discussion of due process.
I guess you could say even Antonin Scalia would concede due process was completely abandoned by the state on multiple occasions.
This case is a real mystery to outsiders who admire America and its vital place in world security and culture.
We do not want Russia, China, or Islam ruling the world, yet this case looks designed by the paradigm of evil.

As a footnote I would observe this case was settled with Joe Biden as president, and expect a backlash saying it was nothing to do with him or the prosecutor candidate.
Yes I get that, independence of the judiciary and so on.
 
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The sad thing is he's already dead. This is Missouri we're talking about. No chance anyone pardons him and it seems the legal system is more concerned about looking right than being right.

I feel bad for him. He's in a **** place and no one can save him. It's one of the only reasons I hope there is a hell. So that everyone that was complicit in him being put to death gets a first class ticket.
It's also an election year.
 
More than a shadow

An odd aspect of the case is why in 2023 the governor dissolved the board that the previous governor had constituted and which had been examining the conviction. MIP This case may turn out to be another one like Todd Willingham: a case without proof of innocence but with a truckload of reasonable doubt.
 
the disadvantage of poverty

Todd Willingham and Larry Swearingen were white, and both were executed. Billy Wayne Cope was innocent (despite having Wayne as his middle name), and he died in prison. There is a thread here on Mr. Swearingen, and perhaps there is one on Mr. Willingham; therefore, everyone can make up his or her own mind on their respective cases. If you are upper middle class and obviously innocent (Duke lacrosse 3), you have a great shot at exoneration. If you are upper middle class and might be innocent (Michael Peterson), your odds don't look so good.
 
EDT
The Innocence Project summed up the testimony of the two witnesses: "Both of these individuals were known fabricators; neither revealed any information that was not either included in media accounts about the case or already known to the police. Their statements were inconsistent with their own prior statements, with each other’s accounts, and with the crime scene evidence, and none of the information they provided could be independently verified."

I am really not a fan of the innocence project these days. I realize they are lawyers presenting the best case for their clients, but people accept their assertions at face value as if they were a neutral party. Most of that link are flat out lies of omission.
 
incentivizing the witnesses

I am really not a fan of the innocence project these days. I realize they are lawyers presenting the best case for their clients, but people accept their assertions at face value as if they were a neutral party. Most of that link are flat out lies of omission.
Your comment is conclusory; for example, please specify the lies of omission. A later link that I provided to the Minnesota Innocence Project can be consulted for more information on the two witnesses. One of the two witnesses was a jailhouse informant who received a monetary reward ($5000?). The other witness, Laura Asaro, may have provided Mr. Williams with the laptop, which prompts the question of how she obtained it. She may have also received money.
 
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The BBC has an article. Interesting points,

The victim's family had supported a life sentence instead of the death penalty, while local prosecutors had pressed to have the conviction overturned.

Also concerned about the DNA, the local prosecuting attorney, Wesley Bell, requested a hearing.
But at that point it was discovered that the DNA evidence was spoiled from someone in the prosecutor's office touching the knife without gloves, and the hearing was cancelled.
"This outcome did not serve the interests of justice," Mr Bell said in a statement on Tuesday.
"If there is even the shadow of a doubt of innocence, the death penalty should never be an option."
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz9p518j0nqo

If even the oroginal prosecutor felt that execution was wrong, and there were evidentiary failures then we can be fairly certain there are problems with the case.
 
Your comment is conclusory; for example, please specify the lies of omission. A later link that I provided to the Minnesota Innocence Project can be consulted for more information on the two witnesses. One of the two witnesses was a jailhouse informant who received a monetary reward ($5000?). The other witness, Laura Asaro, may have provided Mr. Williams with the laptop, which prompts the question of how she obtained it. She may have also received money.

Have you actually read the court documents or are you taking the innocence projects proclamation as gospel truth? Because you should be able to see exactly what I am talking about. It is a lawyer presenting their best case.

For example -

Their #1: he did not leave DNA evidence. But that doesn't exclude him committing the crime. The DNA on the knife is from the prosecution touching the knife after best practices of the time were used to not find his DNA. They present this as if there is an obvious other suspect, and we don't know who's DNA it is. There is also no proof that the perpetrators left ample forensic evidence. Hair, fingerprints, could be from any number of guests in the victims house.

#2 - they say no evidence besides witnesses testimony, but then admit to thr laptop from her home that he sold. They exclude the other items from her home that were found is his car. They exclude that 2 other witnesses to his confession were shared with the defense but never called. They simply say the witnesses have lied in the past. They claim the gf was incentivised but she never accepted any money or favor. They claim nothing they shared was not in public knowledge. The police say they provided non public information.

#3 - back to DNA, when the people responsible for the DNA are known and we know why.

#4 - really hate the inclusion of the family. Their are plenty or people now that believe the family thinks he was innocent. They don't. They just didn't want the death penalty.
 
hair and footprints

The size of the bloody shoe print was different from Mr. Williams shoe size; there is only a narrow time frame in which such a print could have been left. The hair(s) came from Lisha Gayle's shirt. The St. Louis Post Dispatch indicated that DNA testing on the hair samples excluded Mr. Williams.
 
The size of the bloody shoe print was different from Mr. Williams shoe size; there is only a narrow time frame in which such a print could have been left. The hair(s) came from Lisha Gayle's shirt. The St. Louis Post Dispatch indicated that DNA testing on the hair samples excluded Mr. Williams.

Before we get into the weeds of the case, do you agree with my assessment of the innocenceproject, and if not, what do you disagree with?
 
The size of the bloody shoe print was different from Mr. Williams shoe size; there is only a narrow time frame in which such a print could have been left. The hair(s) came from Lisha Gayle's shirt. The St. Louis Post Dispatch indicated that DNA testing on the hair samples excluded Mr. Williams.
In the Bain case in New Zealand, Robin had a smaller footprint than David. While a small foot can make a larger imprint with sliding etc, it is generally impossible for the converse.
This was one of many singular data points proving David innocent.
I haven't checked if the print was too small for Williams to make or the converse.
 
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I am pretty tough on crime, and I find this an outrage.
I am not in favor of total abolition of Captial Punishment, but I would reserve it for extreme cases..mainly serial killers where the evidence is overwhelming and the indivisual is never going to be rehalibitated..
 
I am pretty tough on crime, and I find this an outrage.
I am not in favor of total abolition of Captial Punishment, but I would reserve it for extreme cases..mainly serial killers where the evidence is overwhelming and the indivisual is never going to be rehalibitated..

He had 16 felony convictions, mulitple armed robberies, and was in jail on a 20 year sentence for robbery when he was charged with this crime. Stabbing a woman 43 times to death. During his many stints in prison, he amassed over 100 violations, with verbal and physical fights with inmates and correction officers at the time of this conviction.

I am indifferent to the death penalty, but I don't think people even realize the person this man was.
 
He had 16 felony convictions, mulitple armed robberies, and was in jail on a 20 year sentence for robbery when he was charged with this crime. Stabbing a woman 43 times to death. During his many stints in prison, he amassed over 100 violations, with verbal and physical fights with inmates and correction officers at the time of this conviction.

PI am indifferent to the death penalty, but I don't think people even realize the person this man was.
You have plenty of detail there, but which bits are relevant?
Are there other suspects?
This forum is good for coming to some sort of concensus on these cases and probably being correct.
 
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You have plenty of detail there, but which bits are relevant?
Are there other suspects?
This forum is good for coming to some sort of concensus on these cases and probably being correct.

Eh it's more in regards to dudlbs point about never being rehabilitated. I don't think his is a case of that necessarily but all things considered at the time I wouldn't see it as a stretch of the imagination.

As for the case, there are no other suspects really. The premise of the IP is to sow doubt in the court of public opinion because all their legal options were ineffective. I really don't like what that has caused, with thousands(millions?) of people earnestly believing we murdered an innocent man, when at best someone could argue this case might not be the best example of capital punishment use.

For example Chris mentioned the laptop being given to him by his gf. What is the source of that? Williams. And people will argue that confidently as if his word should have weight in this. Because honestly, they can't give a defense of him selling the laptop days after the murder and having other items from her house in his car without making this a conspiracy. What is the actual defense of it? He robbed her after the murder, before the murder, or just so happened to be framed with forethought for a crime he wasn't accused of while already behind bars?

All the defense for reasonable doubt is not exculpatory. Like his DNA not being found. Or a random hair on the victims shirt. In a carpeted house with visitors, it could have gotten on it at anytime. They will try to exclude the testimony that his gf said he had scratches when the victim didn't have any under her nails. But he could have had cuts from anything, didn't need to be related. They showcase that as inconsistent but it is not important. They say she was incentivised but she received no payment. They call her a liar because she has lied in court before. But they don't mention he has also lied in court before, not that it would crack the top of the list of his crimes.

I will have to look into this bloody shoe thing but everytime I get to the source of one of these claims they are never really a strong defense, just a trial lawyer throwing anything to give a possibility of doubt. That is their job.
 
I for one was convinced by the media, but happy to pivot.
It would be helpful to have another plausible suspect.
The shoe print in the Bain case was quite distinct, being in blood.
It seems unlikely here.
 
I for one was convinced by the media, but happy to pivot.
It would be helpful to have another plausible suspect.
The shoe print in the Bain case was quite distinct, being in blood.
It seems unlikely here.

I am trying to find the original court documents so if anyone knows a link could save me some time. From the appeals cases, the shoe prints are only mentioned in regards to the defense trying to introduce the possibility of him being an accomplice in the crime. An expert testified to two different size shoes but on cross acknowledged them to be the same shoes.

Likewise, the unidentified shoe impressions do not support an accomplice instruction. Williams’ expert testified that several shoe impressions, including some made in blood, were found near the body. The expert initially testified that the impressions were made by two different shoes. However, on cross-examination, he conceded that the same shoe made all the impressions. Moreover, both Cole and Asaro testified that Williams told them he was alone when he killed Gayle. Evidence that one set of shoe impressions was found near the body does not support an instruction that Williams was an accomplice.

To reintroduce that as exculpatory is just grasping in my opinion.

I saw in one of the links that Williams said the laptop was given to him by one of the witnesses who testified against him and that the jury didn't hear this. This would potentially implicate her in some type of involvement with the crime either directly or indirectly and give another motive to for her to testify against him. But the fact the jury didn't hear this (not clear why) looks to be only one of many things wrong with this case.

They didn't allow it because it was here say. The prosecution rightly pointed out that Williams could testify to that himself, which he choose not to. Really I don't see any reason to consider this important. A murderer lied when asked where he got something he probably wouldn't otherwise likely have. What was he gonna say, I stole it after murdering some lady?
 
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An odd aspect of the case is why in 2023 the governor dissolved the board that the previous governor had constituted and which had been examining the conviction. MIP This case may turn out to be another one like Todd Willingham: a case without proof of innocence but with a truckload of reasonable doubt.

Not to pick on you but this is another thing that annoys me. Williams exhausted 15 appeals, on a 25 year old case. The review board had 6 years to come up with a recommendation in regards to his innocence. Exactly how much longer is this suppose to go on? Why does dissolving this after 6 years look bad for the governor and not for Williams?

Your links keep going on about the DNA when we know the source. They don't mention that. It's all obfuscation.
 
The overall impression I'm getting is not that people think he's necessarily innocent, but that there's enough doubt to justify not killing him. As someone else pointed out, killing someone should be reserved for lock tight, heinous crimes.

Killing him against the family's wishes can add guilt and stress to that family as well. It's not always just about Williams. Maybe the family doesn't want the thought that they played a role in his death banging around in their heads for the rest of their lives.
 
I'm always amazed that any less than the true slam-dunk no question about it murderers make it to execution. Like, the multi year guaranteed appeals process should pretty much airtight a wrongful execution? It's not like we are lopping off heads so fast in in such high numbers that a few will slip through the cracks.
 
forensic evidence, part 1

"Police said they found bloody shoeprints and fingerprints, a knife sheath, and the suspect’s hair on Gayle’s shirt, hands, and the floor. The suspect left the house with Gayle’s purse and jacket, and her husband’s laptop." Michigan Chronicle I only have time for a quick comment right now. If all the hair samples were from the same individual, this weakens the argument that they arrived via innocent transfer.
 
Have you actually read the court documents or are you taking the innocence projects proclamation as gospel truth? Because you should be able to see exactly what I am talking about. It is a lawyer presenting their best case.

For example -

Their #1: he did not leave DNA evidence. But that doesn't exclude him committing the crime. The DNA on the knife is from the prosecution touching the knife after best practices of the time were used to not find his DNA. They present this as if there is an obvious other suspect, and we don't know who's DNA it is. There is also no proof that the perpetrators left ample forensic evidence. Hair, fingerprints, could be from any number of guests in the victims house.

#2 - they say no evidence besides witnesses testimony, but then admit to thr laptop from her home that he sold. They exclude the other items from her home that were found is his car. They exclude that 2 other witnesses to his confession were shared with the defense but never called. They simply say the witnesses have lied in the past. They claim the gf was incentivised but she never accepted any money or favor. They claim nothing they shared was not in public knowledge. The police say they provided non public information.

#3 - back to DNA, when the people responsible for the DNA are known and we know why.

#4 - really hate the inclusion of the family. Their are plenty or people now that believe the family thinks he was innocent. They don't. They just didn't want the death penalty.

Somehow the Innocence Project left this part out:

On August 31, 1998, Williams was arrested on unrelated charges and incarcerated at the St. Louis City workhouse.   From April until June 1999, Williams shared a room with Henry Cole. One evening in May, Cole and Williams were watching television and saw a news report about Gayle's murder.   Shortly after the news report, Williams told Cole that he had committed the crime.   Over the next few weeks, Cole and Williams had several conversations about the murder.   As he had done with Laura Asaro, Williams went into considerable detail about how he broke into the house and killed Gayle.

After Cole was released from jail in June 1999, he went to the University City police and told them about Williams' involvement in Gayle's murder.   He reported details of the crime that had never been publicly reported.

In November of 1999, University City police approached Asaro to speak with her about the murder.   Asaro told the police that Williams admitted to her that he had killed Gayle.   The next day, the police searched the Buick LeSabre and found the Post-Dispatch ruler and calculator belonging to Gayle.   The police also recovered the laptop computer from Glenn Roberts.   The laptop was identified as the one stolen from Gayle's residence.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/mo-supreme-court/1450636.html

Really, if he nothing to with it, why did he have so much of her stuff?
 
Somehow the Innocence Project left this part out:



https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/mo-supreme-court/1450636.html

Really, if he nothing to with it, why did he have so much of her stuff?

There's a huge difference between being somehow involved with the victim and being the murderer.

Also, my problem with this jailhouse snitching is that it's information not known to the public - but presumably known to the police. How are you controlling for the possibility that th is police withheld some details from the public, but fed them to their "witness"?
 
There's a huge difference between being somehow involved with the victim and being the murderer.

Also, my problem with this jailhouse snitching is that it's information not known to the public - but presumably known to the police. How are you controlling for the possibility that th is police withheld some details from the public, but fed them to their "witness"?

He had her stuff in his trunk. What, he just stole it and some other guy later that same night broke in and murdered her? What a coincidence.
 
He had her stuff in his trunk. What, he just stole it and some other guy later that same night broke in and murdered her? What a coincidence.

History is full of weird coincidences.

Maybe take a step back and acknowledge that some crimes just aren't solvable without lay-ass dot-connecting nonsense.

Or at least acknowledge that such lazy shenanigans won't convince here.
 

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