Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire III

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P.J. Denyer said:
I will confirm for anyone that wasn't aware, when I was studying for CIMA none of the units covered firefighting or automotive design/repair. ACA or ACCA might have been different, but in my experience they were less likely to get their hands dirty!
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The closest I got to getting my hands dirty during my Big4 career was doing stock counts in grubby warehouses. Apart from that it was lots of spreadsheeting in comfy offices.
 
Darat said:
I think it was their shared history of being in unfulfilling relationships with men and how all their lives they had felt stifled, their road trip was both a metaphorical and literal escape from these dissatisfactions.
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;)
Sounds like one of those 'friends to lovers' lesbian romances
 
JayUtah said:
Nope.



Don't forget you're the one who insinuated expertise, and tried to back it up with statements like, "I had five years of physics," and "I'm a scientist," and "I have two Master's equivalents in accounting." As I said: if you don't want people asking how you know what you insinuate that you know, come up with a better basis for your arguments than, "Because I say so."



Nope. But you were awfully reluctant to reveal it. Now I know why.



You're not a psychologist either.



True. They're a conspiracy theorist when they propose conspiracy theorists. And in your case, it's not that you have a different viewpoint. You have a wrong viewpoint, predicated on speaking confidently from ignorance.
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If you recall, you asked me if I had studied physics and I politely responded, accordingly, in response to your question. You also asked if I was a scientist, and again, I responded factually and straightforwardly. You insisted that I could not be a postgraduate and I pointed out that my two chartered accountancy designations were achieved precisely on the basis of my being a STEM postgraduate. In addition, the professional bodies' webpage itself together with Gov.UK confirms they are internationally recognised as Masters equivalent for formal educational purposes. You were the one who asked and I replied.

If I were to ask you what your profession was and you replied, 'Police officer'. would you think it honest and fair for me to later constantly claim on social media that you bragged and boasted that you were a Police Officer, trying to make people believe you were a bighead, when AFAYAC you were simply giving a straight answer to a straight question and the accusation of bragging would be a problem with my attitude, not yours?
 
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Vixen said:
If you recall, you asked me if I had studied physics and I politely responded, accordingly, in response to your question. You also asked if I was a scientist, and again, I responded factually and straightforwardly. You insisted that I could not be a postgraduate and I pointed out that my two chartered accountancy designations were achieved precisely on the basis of my being a STEM postgraduate. In addition, the professional bodies' webpage itself together with Gov.UK confirms they are internationally recognised as Masters equivalent for formal educational purposes. You were the one who asked and I replied.

If I were to ask you what your profession was and you replied, 'Police officer'. would you think it honest and fair for me to later constantly claim on social media that you bragged and boasted that you were a Police Officer, trying to make people believe you were a bighead, when AFAYAC you were simply giving a straight answer to a straight question and the accusation of bragging would be a problem with my attitude, not yours?
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You do realize that most of us commenting here have read this and your other threads? As such, we know this comment is complete and utter ********.
 
Vixen said:
If you recall, you asked me if I had studied physics and I politely responded, accordingly, in response to your question.
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Nope.

It was several days before you admitted that your study was at the high school level. This was in response to your insinuation that you understood enough physics to endorse the arguments made by professionals in the MS Estonia case.

You also asked if I was a scientist, and again, I responded factually and straightforwardly.
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Nope.

Someone else pointed out that you were not a scientist, and you asserted that in fact you were. Again, it was several days before you revealed that you were a practitioner of the "science" of accountancy.

You insisted that I could not be a postgraduate and I pointed out that my two chartered accountancy designations...
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Nope.

Someone else pointed out that you were not a psychologist, and you asserted that you were a "psychology post-graduate." This led to you trying to equivocate between your claims to have once written a psychology paper in college and your later irrelevant certifications in accountancy.

You were the one who asked and I replied.
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Nope.

Aside from me asking what your qualifications in physics were, all the rest were you claiming expertise when challenged by others. In all cases you were evasive and misleading until a final answer was obtained. And as I wrote at length—and you still haven't addressed—almost all your claims here insinuate some form of personal authority that you refuse to substantiate. You're not being bullied. You're simply being held accountable to your claims and insinuations.

Now that we're clearing up your misremembered past, are you going to address the rather large elephant in the room: Carol Vorderman?
 
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SpitfireIX said:
As I've noted in the past, correctly and relevantly calling attention to your apparent incompetence in a field where you're claiming to be an expert is not abuse, even if it hurts your feelings.




What I said was that you didn't understand the difference between tax fraud and tax avoidance, because you claimed that Degorce was charged with tax fraud, when all he'd done was invest in a questionable tax shelter. And I stand by that assertion.




Second, when I pointed this out to you, you strongly implied that tax avoidance ought to be a crime, and insinuated that the fact that it isn't is somehow proof of your fantasy that Britain still largely adheres to Victorian social stratification. :rolleyes:

As a side note, something I didn't pick up on before is that you refer to Degorce as "co-partner," when he actually founded and currently runs the fund. You presumably did this in an attempt to inflate Sunak's importance and role in the firm, when, as I've mentioned, he was only a junior partner. In fact, one article I read from The Guardian referred to Degorce as "Sunak's boss at Theleme."

And one final note, I saw an article that referred to the amount Degorce owed as £8m, which you may have misread as £80m.
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Well OK, 'charged' was not the right phrase but he was forced to pay the tax bill as were the others he enticed into his brilliant idea. As I said before, unless you have a copy of the partnership agreement you cannot know what the agreed division of labour, profits and salaries are. Likewise you cannot know for sure it is a formalized 'blind trust arrangement' because Sunak will not reveal the name of the Trustee. For example, say you have three people - usually professionals such as lawyers or accountants, or whatever - then how they decide to set it up is entirely up to them. One could simply be retired and giving 100% of the investment, one could be remunerated on the basis of 80% of the profits (perhaps he's the one with the USP and acumen who will attract clients based on his past record), Partner C, might just be happy to draw a monthly salary. They might agree to spilt the remaining profits of 15% to the investor and 5% to Partner C. This is all drawn up in a contract. Your claim that Sunak 'only owned 5% and no longer works there is ergo meaningless, He might still be a partner for all you know and might still be on a retainer for dividends and what have you as soon as the 'blind arrangement' ceases to be an issue for the Ministerial Code.

https://x.com/BrightOcular/status/1763652090805584146


Well Mr. Murthy, Sunak's father-in-law has retired from Infosys but his daughter retains 1% of the £800bn share value. As for the link to Tata and/or JLR; it is probably labyrinthe but follow the money and it easily explains why there is an embargo on naming the Land Rover vehicle and the fact it was likely an EV fire, judging by its appearance.
 
Vixen said:
As I said before, unless you have a copy of the partnership agreement you cannot know what the agreed division of labour, profits and salaries are. Likewise you cannot know for sure it is a formalized 'blind trust arrangement' because Sunak will not reveal the name of the Trustee.
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A privately-held company and a blind trust have nothing to do with each other.
 
Vixen said:
Well OK, 'charged' was not the right phrase but he was forced to pay the tax bill as were the others he enticed into his brilliant idea. As I said before, unless you have a copy of the partnership agreement you cannot know what the agreed division of labour, profits and salaries are. Likewise you cannot know for sure it is a formalized 'blind trust arrangement' because Sunak will not reveal the name of the Trustee. For example, say you have three people - usually professionals such as lawyers or accountants, or whatever - then how they decide to set it up is entirely up to them. One could simply be retired and giving 100% of the investment, one could be remunerated on the basis of 80% of the profits (perhaps he's the one with the USP and acumen who will attract clients based on his past record), Partner C, might just be happy to draw a monthly salary. They might agree to spilt the remaining profits of 15% to the investor and 5% to Partner C. This is all drawn up in a contract. Your claim that Sunak 'only owned 5% and no longer works there is ergo meaningless, He might still be a partner for all you know and might still be on a retainer for dividends and what have you as soon as the 'blind arrangement' ceases to be an issue for the Ministerial Code.

https://x.com/BrightOcular/status/1763652090805584146


Well Mr. Murthy, Sunak's father-in-law has retired from Infosys but his daughter retains 1% of the £800bn share value. As for the link to Tata and/or JLR; it is probably labyrinthe but follow the money and it easily explains why there is an embargo on naming the Land Rover vehicle and the fact it was likely an EV fire, judging by its appearance.
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So no actual evidence then.
 
JayUtah said:
A privately-held company and a blind trust have nothing to do with each other.
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He claims ALL of his business interests are in a 'blind trust arrangement'. This is just a generic header for the Ministerial Code Registers of Interest. Good Law Project requested information about the name of the person/people acting as Trustee/s and they were told by the Cabinet Office that the information was withheld. It doesn't inspire confidence that Sunak does not have any interest in Tata either for himself or via his family. If it was at genuine arm's length as is the accepted criteria then he shouldn't have any problem holding out his hands and showing there is no personal interest there.
 
Vixen said:
He claims ALL of his business interests are in a 'blind trust arrangement'. This is just a generic header for the Ministerial Code Registers of Interest. Good Law Project requested information about the name of the person/people acting as Trustee/s and they were told by the Cabinet Office that the information was withheld. It doesn't inspire confidence that Sunak does not have any interest in Tata either for himself or via his family. If it was at genuine arm's length as is the accepted criteria then he shouldn't have any problem holding out his hands and showing there is no personal interest there.
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What evidence do you have that the vehicle the fire started in was an EV or hybrid?
 
JayUtah said:
A privately-held company and a blind trust have nothing to do with each other.
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The idea of the Trustee/s is to ringfence the company/companies completely away from the person who needs to step away to claim no conflict of interest. What the company does is neither here nor there. AFAICS for it to be authentic it needs to be legally formalized. It is possible Sunak has don e this but without disclosing who the Trustee/s is, I am sceptical there is any such arrangement and there is no supervision to ensure it is genuinely blind.

Just the Right Honourable friend's declaration it is blind.
 
Vixen said:
The idea of the Trustee/s is to ringfence the company/companies...
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No. A blind trust has nothing to do with companies. You're still conflating this with company stewardship, which you apparently hastily Googled early in the process and decided mattered here. And you don't have the right idea of company stewardship, either.

AFAICS for it to be authentic it needs to be legally formalized.
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There is no requirement for external recognition of a trust, blind or otherwise. If a valid contract exists between trustee and beneficiary, it is authentic.

I am sceptical there is any such arrangement and there is no supervision to ensure it is genuinely blind.
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Your skepticism is noted and disregarded as being based on faulty information.
 
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Vixen said:
Well Mr. Murthy, Sunak's father-in-law has retired from Infosys but his daughter retains 1% of the £800bn share value. As for the link to Tata and/or JLR; it is probably labyrinthe but follow the money and it easily explains why there is an embargo on naming the Land Rover vehicle and the fact it was likely an EV fire, judging by its appearance.
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Follow what money exactly? The only link I can see is owning part of Infosys that is an Indian company. And Tata is also an Indian company. Is that your connection?
 
Here_to_learn said:
Follow what money exactly? The only link I can see is owning part of Infosys that is an Indian company. And Tata is also an Indian company. Is that your connection?
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Sunak has handed Tata a contract for a Jaguar Land Rover plant and electric car battery factory. Tata will receive a taxpayers' subsidy that it never needs to pay back. Sunak has not told the taxpayer how much this taxpayer subsidy is but the press estimates it to be at least £500m. Perhaps you can now see why Sunak doesn't want this deal to go pear shaped because of brand reputational damage to JLR vehicles catching fire and the public perception of EV's being a car park fire hazard. His father-in-law is a close friend of Mr. Tata.
 
Vixen said:
Sunak has handed Tata a contract for a Jaguar Land Rover plant and electric car battery factory. Tata will receive a taxpayers' subsidy that it never needs to pay back. Sunak has not told the taxpayer how much this taxpayer subsidy is but the press estimates it to be at least £500m. Perhaps you can now see why Sunak doesn't want this deal to go pear shaped because of brand reputational damage to JLR vehicles catching fire and the public perception of EV's being a car park fire hazard. His father-in-law is a close friend of Mr. Tata.
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You brought up stock in Infosys in the discussion. How does that fit into your theory?
 
Vixen said:
Sunak has handed Tata a contract for a Jaguar Land Rover plant and electric car battery factory. Tata will receive a taxpayers' subsidy that it never needs to pay back. Sunak has not told the taxpayer how much this taxpayer subsidy is but the press estimates it to be at least £500m. Perhaps you can now see why Sunak doesn't want this deal to go pear shaped because of brand reputational damage to JLR vehicles catching fire and the public perception of EV's being a car park fire hazard. His father-in-law is a close friend of Mr. Tata.
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Which might be remotely relevant if the fire had not started in a diesel car.
 
Vixen said:
Perhaps you can now see why Sunak doesn't want this deal to go pear shaped because of brand reputational damage to JLR vehicles catching fire and the public perception of EV's being a car park fire hazard.
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Frantically trying to establish a motive for Sunak does not establish that the car was an EV.

This is another hallmark of conspiracy theories. Rather than establish according to fact what actually happened, they focus on "soft" claims like motive and opportunity to insinuate their way around the empty corpus delicti.
 
Here_to_learn said:
You brought up stock in Infosys in the discussion. How does that fit into your theory?
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Sunak says he gave his shares in Infosys to his wife so that means he no longer has an interest in it. Therefore, it is not a conflict of interest - goes Sunak's logic - to give multi-million pound contracts to Infosys. Likewise, with his claim he has had nothing to do with the company he co-founded in 2010, Theleme, putting out a statement he no longer has anything to do with it. But who believes he just left behind £536m? It's clear, he thinks going 'blind' means he doesn't have to declare interests he certainly does have. Of course he has an interest in Infosys via his spouse. I wouldn't be surprised if he has handed over his partnership at Theleme to one of his daughters and she gets the dividends instead. Of course he has interests. Of course he will gain from the Tata contract in one way or another is my view, because he has not been transparent and that is why I am sceptical.
 
Here_to_learn said:
Follow what money exactly? The only link I can see is owning part of Infosys that is an Indian company. And Tata is also an Indian company. Is that your connection?
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AlQaeda-Iraq.jpg
 
Vixen said:
Therefore, it is not a conflict of interest - goes Sunak's logic - to give multi-million pound contracts to Infosys.
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Where did Sunak say this?

But who believes he just left behind £536m?
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Your personal incredulity is not evidence.

It's clear, he thinks going 'blind' means he doesn't have to declare interests he certainly does have.
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"Clear" because you say so?

You can either prove he has those interests and knows about them, or you can't.

Of course he has an interest in Infosys via his spouse.
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"...because I say so."

I wouldn't be surprised if he has handed over his partnership at Theleme to one of his daughters and she gets the dividends instead.
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Imagination is not evidence.

Of course he has interests.
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"...because I say so."

Of course he will gain from the Tata contract in one way or another is my view, because he has not been transparent and that is why I am sceptical.
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Your skepticism seems to feed quite voraciously off your imagination.
 
Vixen said:
Sunak says he gave his shares in Infosys to his wife so that means he no longer has an interest in it. Therefore, it is not a conflict of interest - goes Sunak's logic - to give multi-million pound contracts to Infosys. Likewise, with his claim he has had nothing to do with the company he co-founded in 2010, Theleme, putting out a statement he no longer has anything to do with it. But who believes he just left behind £536m? It's clear, he thinks going 'blind' means he doesn't have to declare interests he certainly does have. Of course he has an interest in Infosys via his spouse. I wouldn't be surprised if he has handed over his partnership at Theleme to one of his daughters and she gets the dividends instead. Of course he has interests. Of course he will gain from the Tata contract in one way or another is my view, because he has not been transparent and that is why I am sceptical.
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What contract has he given to Infosys and what does that have to do with cars?
 
Why do you keep dodging people correcting you Vixen? Why are you repeatedly ignoring Jay's request that you provide evidence of the accusation you levelled at him?

Well I mean we all know the reason I just wonder if you're able to admit it.
 
Vixen said:
Sunak says he gave his shares in Infosys to his wife so that means he no longer has an interest in it...
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You claimed this before but it took mere seconds to look it up and confirm that is untrue. Do you remember?

Nobody who had to abide by the ministerial code could fail to be aware that their spouse's interests count equally to their own.

Your sentence is ambiguous. If you meant "that means he no longer has an interest" to be an expression of Sunak's opinion then I don't believe you. Show us where he said that. If you meant it as your own opinion, then we already showed you it's not true so why are you repeating it?
 
Vixen said:
Sunak has handed Tata a contract for a Jaguar Land Rover plant and electric car battery factory. Tata will receive a taxpayers' subsidy that it never needs to pay back. Sunak has not told the taxpayer how much this taxpayer subsidy is but the press estimates it to be at least £500m. Perhaps you can now see why Sunak doesn't want this deal to go pear shaped because of brand reputational damage to JLR vehicles catching fire and the public perception of EV's being a car park fire hazard. His father-in-law is a close friend of Mr. Tata.
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He tries to minimise the damage done to JLR- by releasing a 'deep fake' video and pictures of a JLR vehicle ON FIRE....
That then proceeds to burn out an entire carpark....

(Add 'minimise' to the ever increasing number of things that has a new 'vixen-meaning'....)
It isn't as if this is exactly unknown with their vehicles, reliability issues have plagued them for decades...

And then has Jenny/Jeremy of public relations to put out a story about it not being an EV (hybrid or other) implicating dozens of people in a criminal conspiracy- all of whom have to remain silent...

But then stupidly allows the public inquiry into the carpark fire to go ahead (meaning even MORE people are going to have to be included in the conspiracy- after all you have an entire team investigating it- surely after they finish they investigations and either nothing is reported at all, or the report is also 'faked' they will not all go- 'hmm thats not we found, oh well, nothing we can do about that, off to the next case'

The sheer stupidity of this 'conspiracy theory' makes flat earthers and moon landing conspiracy nuts look positively sensible by comparison....
:jaw-dropp
 
JayUtah said:
Where did Sunak say this?



Your personal incredulity is not evidence.



"Clear" because you say so?

You can either prove he has those interests and knows about them, or you can't.



"...because I say so."



Imagination is not evidence.



"...because I say so."



Your skepticism seems to feed quite voraciously off your imagination.
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It's enshrined in many facets of law. Spouse has joint rights in many areas. Considered so close they are excused from giving evidence against each other in a criminal trial. Unless there is a specific will the spouse gets everything should one of them die (in the UK). A spouse has the right to carry on living in the spousal home should the other half die, ceteris parabus. So the idea of passing one's wealth over to the spouse and then claiming not to have an interest is nonsense.
 
Here_to_learn said:
What contract has he given to Infosys and what does that have to do with cars?
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It characterises his secretive behaviour, which was evidence requested as to whether he would do any such thing as to cover up the Luton Airport car park fire by embargoing confirmation of brand, model and year of car and that it was a hybrid.
 
Dabop said:
He tries to minimise the damage done to JLR- by releasing a 'deep fake' video and pictures of a JLR vehicle ON FIRE....
That then proceeds to burn out an entire carpark....

(Add 'minimise' to the ever increasing number of things that has a new 'vixen-meaning'....)
It isn't as if this is exactly unknown with their vehicles, reliability issues have plagued them for decades...

And then has Jenny/Jeremy of public relations to put out a story about it not being an EV (hybrid or other) implicating dozens of people in a criminal conspiracy- all of whom have to remain silent...

But then stupidly allows the public inquiry into the carpark fire to go ahead (meaning even MORE people are going to have to be included in the conspiracy- after all you have an entire team investigating it- surely after they finish they investigations and either nothing is reported at all, or the report is also 'faked' they will not all go- 'hmm thats not we found, oh well, nothing we can do about that, off to the next case'

The sheer stupidity of this 'conspiracy theory' makes flat earthers and moon landing conspiracy nuts look positively sensible by comparison....
:jaw-dropp
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Sunak doesn't need to put out a fake video, he has the power of embargo. He does have a slick political team backed by think tanks who produce all kinds of creative videos for him.

The front view video is a red herring. Just some guy on Twitter/x claiming to be able to read the numberplate.
 
Vixen, is this statement from a press release published by BF&RS true?

BF&RS said:
...The vehicle involved was diesel-powered – it was not a mild hybrid, plug-in hybrid or electric vehicle...
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Yes or no, no equivocation, no tangents, no squirrels.

Yes or no. Is it true?
 
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Vixen said:
It's enshrined in many facets of law.
* * *
So the idea of passing one's wealth over to the spouse and then claiming not to have an interest is nonsense.
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Most of that drivel was irrelevant to anything I asked. However, in your haste to conflate marital rights with obligations to avoid conflicts of interest, you keep neglecting that spouses are bound under those obligations. Sunak giving something to his wife does not free either of them up to manipulate it without being obliged to disclose it.

Why are you avoiding clarifying your accusation against me for what you alleged I said about Carol Vorderman? Please address this.
 
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