Ed Indictment in Breonna Taylor case.

[Bikewer]

Just announced, one of the officers was indicted for “reckless endangerment” for apparently shooting into adjacent apartments.
None of the officers actually involved in the shooting were charged, the investigation showed they were acting properly.

This has been pretty apparent from the time that fairly detailed accounts of the incident became public.... The death of Taylor was a tragic accident but not criminal. The officers did not go to the wrong address, they were looking for Taylor’s boyfriend.
They did have a “no knock” warrant, and the boyfriend did open fire on them as they forced their way in.
They returned fire and Taylor caught a bullet. Tragedy, but no “murder”...

Nonetheless, various activists interviewed, including one of the state representatives, continue to call for “justice” and believe there must be some way to charge the other officers.
Demonstrations and protests are already occurring.

 

[Thermal]

Still don't get this. The cops shot blindly into the dark in a residential area. No idea if there were children in there, or how many. If that's not reckless endangerment I don't know what is.

 

[whoanellie]

Just announced, one of the officers was indicted for “reckless endangerment” for apparently shooting into adjacent apartments.

None of the officers actually involved in the shooting were charged, the investigation showed they were acting properly.



This has been pretty apparent from the time that fairly detailed accounts of the incident became public.... The death of Taylor was a tragic accident but not criminal. The officers did not go to the wrong address, they were looking for Taylor’s boyfriend.

They did have a “no knock” warrant, and the boyfriend did open fire on them as they forced their way in.

They returned fire and Taylor caught a bullet. Tragedy, but no “murder”...



Nonetheless, various activists interviewed, including one of the state representatives, continue to call for “justice” and believe there must be some way to charge the other officers.

Demonstrations and protests are already occurring.

Her name is Breonna.
The police were not looking for the boyfriend that Breonna was living with (the one who opened fire). The alleged drug dealer was an ex boyfriend of Breonna's.

 

[portlandatheist]

A few thoughts on Breonna's shooting:
Why did the cops request a search warrant in the first place and why did the judge issue it? I think that is the first question that needs to be asked. After reading the wiki article on the shooting, this is seriously a head scratcher.
The warrant was not for:
The drug house in question
The primary suspect in question
The packages in question received in the mail that may have contained drugs.
The residence of Breonna Taylor was secondary, at best, to all of these better targets for a search warrant.
Even if she was receiving drugs via the mail, that should not be enough to justify serving a warrant like that: breaking down the door in the middle of the night.

As for the cops:
the indicted cop fired completely blindly into through a curtained patio door not knowing who he was firing at. That is clearly reckless. It was reckless not knowing who was even inside before serving the warrant in the first place.
One of the cops returned fire only after being shot himself. No way a grand jury is going to indict for murder as some people clearly wanted.

 

[pgwenthold]

No one was indicted for the murder of Breonna because they couldn't actually determine who actually shot her. There were a couple of cops firing away, and they don't know who was responsible. Therefore, trying to charge either one, the defense would be "how do you know it wasn't the other person?"

Therefore, all you need to do to get away with murder is to have multiple people shooting. Im sure that would work for a gang drive-by shooting, right?

Who is the murderer and who is the conspirator? Oh, we can't tell. Ok, let them all go free....

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Breona was a bystander.

People in other apartments were bystanders.

Killing Breona: not wrong.

Potentially harming or killing anyone else: wrong.

The law is funny sometimes.

Breona's death is less of an offense than some distress and anxiety the neighbors were placed in.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

No one was indicted for the murder of Breonna because they couldn't actually determine who actually shot her. There were a couple of cops firing away, and they don't know who was responsible. Therefore, trying to charge either one, the defense would be "how do you know it wasn't the other person?"

Therefore, all you need to do to get away with murder is to have multiple people shooting. Im sure that would work for a gang drive-by shooting, right?

Who is the murderer and who is the conspirator? Oh, we can't tell. Ok, let them all go free....

Also, make sure to fire a half-dozen or so extra rounds after you've made the kill.

Striations and markings change with every shot, apparently a few rounds being fired between the bullet used for evidence and the bullet fired by the forensic examiner to compare can get that tossed out.

 

[Bob001]

.....
This has been pretty apparent from the time that fairly detailed accounts of the incident became public.... The death of Taylor was a tragic accident but not criminal. The officers did not go to the wrong address, they were looking for Taylor’s boyfriend.
They did have a “no knock” warrant, and the boyfriend did open fire on them as they forced their way in.
They returned fire and Taylor caught a bullet. Tragedy, but no “murder”...
....

But the prosecution's claim now is that they did announce themselves. That kinda invalidates the point of a "no knock" warrant. It means that there was no urgent need to access the apartment. Once the cops could have given the residents more time to answer. They could have called on the phone and said "Police! Let us in!" They could have hit their sirens and used bullhorns outside.

Paradoxically, if the police had actually executed it as a "no knock" warrant they might have been inside yelling "Police!" before the couple could even wake up, let alone reach for a gun.

And how is it self-defense for the cops to kill the person who is NOT shooting at them? Charge them with manslaughter and let a jury decide if they were justified.

 

[rockinkt]

No one was indicted for the murder of Breonna because they couldn't actually determine who actually shot her. There were a couple of cops firing away, and they don't know who was responsible. Therefore, trying to charge either one, the defense would be "how do you know it wasn't the other person?"

Therefore, all you need to do to get away with murder is to have multiple people shooting. Im sure that would work for a gang drive-by shooting, right?

Who is the murderer and who is the conspirator? Oh, we can't tell. Ok, let them all go free....

Unless you can prove you were one of those people personally involved in deciding whether charges should be laid in this case - please cite where this was specifically stated by those people that were actually deciding if charges were to be laid.

 

[Bob001]

No one was indicted for the murder of Breonna because they couldn't actually determine who actually shot her. There were a couple of cops firing away, and they don't know who was responsible.
....

They have ballistics evidence. The only cop they charged did NOT shoot her.

A Kentucky State Police analysis "did not identify" which of the three officers fired the fatal shot, but the FBI crime lab concluded it came from Cosgrove. Cameron said this creates a "reasonable doubt" of who fired the fatal shot.

https://www.courier-journal.com/sto...-taylor-fact-check-7-rumors-wrong/5326938002/

 

[rockinkt]

But the prosecution's claim now is that they did announce themselves. That kinda invalidates the point of a "no knock" warrant. It means that there was no urgent need to access the apartment. Once the cops could have given the residents more time to answer. They could have called on the phone and said "Police! Let us in!" They could have hit their sirens and used bullhorns outside.

Paradoxically, if the police had actually executed it as a "no knock" warrant they might have been inside yelling "Police!" before the couple could even wake up, let alone reach for a gun.

And how is it self-defense for the cops to kill the person who is NOT shooting at them? Charge them with manslaughter and let a jury decide if they were justified.

A "no knock" search warrant does not mean police become cat burglars and sneak into a dwelling without announcing themselves.

Based on my personal experience having been a police officer in many search warrants - a "no knock" warrant is preceded by a loud announcement of "Police" an instant before the door is hammered in. "Police" was also yelled by the participants as they entered the dwelling as well.
To think that these police did not or were not obliged to announce who they were is really stretching it.

 

[Shadowdweller]

Unless you can prove you were one of those people personally involved in deciding whether charges should be laid in this case - please cite where this was specifically stated by those people that were actually deciding if charges are to be laid.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/justice/...reonna-taylor-officers-charges-sot-nr-vpx.cnn

ETA: Sorry, wrong part of the AG's speech. Searching elsewhere

Here we go:
https://www.cbsnews.com/video/kentu...s-against-one-officer-in-breonna-taylor-case/

Starting around 3:00 until around 4:25 or so.

 

[Bob001]

A "no knock" search warrant does not mean police become cat burglars and sneak into a dwelling without announcing themselves.

Based on my personal experience having been a police officer in many search warrants - a "no knock" warrant is preceded by a loud announcement of "Police" an instant before the door is hammered in. "Police" was also yelled by the participants as they entered the dwelling as well.
To think that these police did not or were not obliged to announce who they were is really stretching it.

According to a report linked above, the police waited as much as a minute after they announced themselves and before they entered. That gave the occupants time enough to wake up scared and grab a gun, but not enough to collect themselves and answer the door. If the cops had entered immediately OR if they had waited longer, it might have gone differently.

And again, what was the need for urgency at all? Even if the person they were looking for was actually there, he was a minor drug dealer. They could have staked out the place and grabbed him when he left, or tracked him down at his local hangouts. What was the justification for a no-knock warrant at all?

This is another example of the militarized cops doing things not because they need to, but just because they can.

 

[whoanellie]

No one was indicted for the murder of Breonna because they couldn't actually determine who actually shot her. There were a couple of cops firing away, and they don't know who was responsible. Therefore, trying to charge either one, the defense would be "how do you know it wasn't the other person?"

Therefore, all you need to do to get away with murder is to have multiple people shooting. Im sure that would work for a gang drive-by shooting, right?

Who is the murderer and who is the conspirator? Oh, we can't tell. Ok, let them all go free....

This 100% totally false.

 

[casebro]

Last I heard the warrant was for her, it was a 'knock first warrant", they knocked and announced, and her shack-up opened fire after the cops entered.

But I don't recall my source. And Bikewer doesn't give his either.

 

[Trebuchet]

Cops lied. Breonna died.
And thats just fine with 40% of America .

 

[Skeptic Tank]

1.) The warrant was authorized as "no knock" but the police opted to knock and announce, or at the last minute their superiors changed it to that - not clear on which, but either way they DID knock and announce. A black Jamaican neighbor, the closest to Breonna's door, confirms they did knock and say "police! police!" - and the boyfriend who shot a cop in the femoral artery as they entered, also confirms they knocked but says he didn't hear "police."

2.) They weren't at the wrong house or anything like that. Her other boyfriend, the drug dealer Jamarcus, was in custody but they had strong reason to believe her apartment was frequently used in his drug running operation and, at the very least, might be a storage place for cash and an exchange spot for other things. They had enough basis to pursue and get a warrant, and it was entirely legitimate for them to question her and search the place with the info they had.

3.) Keep in mind, Breonna had rented a car that ended up with another drug dealer, connected to Jamarcus, dead in it. That right there was enough to justify searching her place IMO.

4.) When they entered, her boyfriend opened fire and they returned fire. Where's the issue? Who actually doesn't believe cops will return fire when you shoot one of them in the femoral artery? He could've bled out very rapidly and nearly did.

5.) The cop who was indicted shot through windows to where he believed the shooter(s) were, but apparently he was unlikely to have hit Breonna - I believe she was dead already by the time he did this. Regardless, it may have been somewhat imprudent but his fellow officer was bleeding out and I wouldn't have charged him for it. If a neighbor got killed or seriously wounded, I probably would have - but they didn't.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Still don't get this. The cops shot blindly into the dark in a residential area. No idea if there were children in there, or how many. If that's not reckless endangerment I don't know what is.

The word I think I heard on the news today while not paying enough attention is that the guy they fired and charged fired through a window with the binds down. Also they know his bullet(s) went into other apartments. I want to know where all his bullets went and how many went into Breonna.

 

[Bogative]

And again, what was the need for urgency at all? Even if the person they were looking for was actually there, he was a minor drug dealer. They could have staked out the place and grabbed him when he left, or tracked him down at his local hangouts. What was the justification for a no-knock warrant at all?

There seems to be some confusion.

The warrant was not for a person, it was a search warrant for Breonna Taylor's residence.

The urgency would be to prevent evidence from being destroyed.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

This case technically nullifies the right to defend your home, since any perceived intruder might be a cop.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

No one was indicted for the murder of Breonna because they couldn't actually determine who actually shot her. ....
Who is the murderer and who is the conspirator? Oh, we can't tell. Ok, let them all go free....

No, have you never heard of ballistics? They know exactly whose bullets went where.

 

[Bogative]

The word I think I heard on the news today while not paying enough attention is that the guy they fired and charged fired through a window with the binds down. Also they know his bullet(s) went into other apartments. I want to know where all his bullets went and how many went into Breonna.

"There is no conclusive evidence that any bullets fired from Detective Hankison's weapon struck Miss Taylor."

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/kentu...against-one-officer-in-breonna-taylor-case/#x

 

[Skeptic Tank]

This case technically nullifies the right to defend your home, since any perceived intruder might be a cop.

I guess the prudent thing would be to ascertain what's going on and not just immediately open fire when the door comes down, given the fact that police are the one group in our society most associated with battering ram door entries. One might want to at least consider that it may be police, if you honestly don't hear them calling out "police! police!" as they did here.

On top of this, this wasn't exactly some 65 year old white couple in rural Vermont in their farm house, winding down a lifetime of near-zero criminal activity, and their door suddenly comes crashing down as intruders come in. This was an apartment rented by a woman who had been involved in drug dealing and at a minimum assisting a drug dealer in movement of drugs and funds, etc. I strongly suspect Kenny, the boyfriend who opened fire, had some familiarity with the concept that police might be interested in Breonna, in Jamarcus, in the apartment. I wouldn't be very surprised at all if he himself had had run ins with the law too.

So I think it's not unreasonable to ask that "could this be the cops?" should have been at least on his radar, enough to not start opening fire instantly.

If you want to say that was reasonable for him to do, then okay... but then it doesn't change the fact that the cops firing back was even more reasonable. Then executed a lawful warrant on a drug connected house and one of them was shot as they entered. Should they not have returned fire?

On one hand we're told that blacks live in constant fear of police attention, but then I'm supposed to entertain the idea that Kenny and Breonna had no concept that it might be the police at the door?

No, have you never heard of ballistics? They know exactly whose bullets went where.

I believe in the press conference today they said they had not been able to ascertain which officer's gun was responsible for the fatal round that hit her. Though I don't think that was the primary reason for not charging those two officers.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Breona was a bystander.

People in other apartments were bystanders.

Killing Breona: not wrong.

Potentially harming or killing anyone else: wrong.

The law is funny sometimes.

Breona's death is less of an offense than some distress and anxiety the neighbors were placed in.

They didn't identify themselves and give Breonna time to surrender. She had no drugs and no real drug-use connection to the ex-boyfriend (or friend) that they originally arrested.

I think a bit will depend on how good the reason was for that no-knock warrant.

 

[Bogative]

No, have you never heard of ballistics? They know exactly whose bullets went where.

The Kentucky State Police crime lab could not determine who fired the fatal shot.

The FBI ballistic lab determined it was Detective Cosgrove who fired the fatal shot.

 

[rockinkt]

https://www.cnn.com/videos/justice/...reonna-taylor-officers-charges-sot-nr-vpx.cnn

ETA: Sorry, wrong part of the AG's speech. Searching elsewhere

Here we go:
https://www.cbsnews.com/video/kentu...s-against-one-officer-in-breonna-taylor-case/

Starting around 3:00 until around 4:25 or so.

First and foremost - the shooting WAS justified. That makes the need to discover who fired the fatal shot moot. Therefore, the fact that they could not identify who fired the shot was not a factor in deciding whether murder charges were laid.

Anybody that thinks someone is justified in shooting at police officers who first knock, identify themselves, and then are forced to batter the door down to legally enter a house under a search warrant, are dreaming in technicolor.
Wildly shooting at police officers who identified themselves as police officers with your girlfriend standing beside you in a hallway is incredibly stupid and dangerous.
What did he think was going to happen? Did he think he was going to kill all the police officers before they returned fire?
He obviously was seriously deluded and/or hated police. He certainly did not care for the safety of his girlfriend.
The only person responsible for the death of Breana Taylor was her idiot police hating boyfriend.
Legally justified shooting. Period.

 

[rockinkt]

They didn't identify themselves and give Breonna time to surrender. She had no drugs and no real drug-use connection to the ex-boyfriend (or friend) that they originally arrested.

I think a bit will depend on how good the reason was for that no-knock warrant.

The Attorney General says the evidence shows the police identified themselves before entering.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Ironic that people keep complaining about the no knock warrant, when if they'd stuck with that and entered in that way, nobody might have ended up shot as the cops might have gotten to Kenny and stopped him from getting his gun.

 

[rockinkt]

Cops lied. Breonna died.
And thats just fine with 40% of America .

Got anything other than what appears to be pure hate for police to backup your assertions?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

I guess the prudent thing would be to ascertain what's going on and not just immediately open fire when the door comes down, given the fact that police are the one group in our society most associated with battering ram door entries. One might want to at least consider that it may be police, if you honestly don't hear them calling out "police! police!" as they did here.

On top of this, this wasn't exactly some 65 year old white couple in rural Vermont in their farm house, winding down a lifetime of near-zero criminal activity, and their door suddenly comes crashing down as intruders come in. This was an apartment rented by a woman who had been involved in drug dealing and at a minimum assisting a drug dealer in movement of drugs and funds, etc. I strongly suspect Kenny, the boyfriend who opened fire, had some familiarity with the concept that police might be interested in Breonna, in Jamarcus, in the apartment. I wouldn't be very surprised at all if he himself had had run ins with the law too.

So I think it's not unreasonable to ask that "could this be the cops?" should have been at least on his radar, enough to not start opening fire instantly.

If you want to say that was reasonable for him to do, then okay... but then it doesn't change the fact that the cops firing back was even more reasonable. Then executed a lawful warrant on a drug connected house and one of them was shot as they entered. Should they not have returned fire?

On one hand we're told that blacks live in constant fear of police attention, but then I'm supposed to entertain the idea that Kenny and Breonna had no concept that it might be the police at the door?



I believe in the press conference today they said they had not been able to ascertain which officer's gun was responsible for the fatal round that hit her. Though I don't think that was the primary reason for not charging those two officers.

Beg to disagree, big time.

- why would not every future intruder shout "POLICE" the moment he sees movement in the house?
- the fact that you are being associated with criminals doesn't nullify all your constitutional rights.



No, the basic failure here was for the police not to investigate and surveilled more: they should have staked out the home and entered with
Taylor when she came home: going into an place where you do not know who is inside is needless reckless.
Police budgets are all screwed up to favor going hard instead of smart.
And results like in this case will happen again and again until the police will focus on detecting instead of gatecrashing.

 

[Bogative]

The Attorney General says the evidence shows the police identified themselves before entering.

A neighbor told a local news station on camera he heard the police pounding on the door and yelling "police, police."

 

[The Great Zaganza]

A neighbor told a local news station on camera he heard the police pounding on the door and yelling "police, police."

one neighbor.

all the others say they didn't.

but i guess in doubt for the cops ...

 

[rockinkt]

Ironic that people keep complaining about the no knock warrant, when if they'd stuck with that and entered in that way, nobody might have ended up shot as the cops might have gotten to Kenny and stopped him from getting his gun.

What I think is ironic is that a whole lot of famous people are mouthing off and stating someone is guilty of murder without knowing the evidence and without trial while claiming to be wanting "Justice".
Where do they - or anyone else - get the idea that essentially demanding the lynching of someone without factual evidence equals "Justice"?

 

[Bogative]

No, the basic failure here was for the police not to investigate and surveilled more: they should have staked out the home and entered with
Taylor when she came home: going into an place where you do not know who is inside is needless reckless.

Taylor's residence was one of five being searched that night. Why would you expect them to sit outside and wait for her, potentially giving her several hours to destroy evidence of criminal activity?

 

[rockinkt]

one neighbor.

all the others say they didn't.
but i guess in doubt for the cops ...

Who else stated this as fact besides the guy who opened fire on the police officers?

 

[Delphic Oracle]

What I think is ironic is that a whole lot of famous people are mouthing off and stating someone is guilty of murder without knowing the evidence and without trial while claiming to be wanting "Justice".

Where do they - or anyone else - get the idea that essentially demanding the lynching of someone without factual evidence equals "Justice"?

Breona Taylor got lynched with flimsy, circumstantial evidence that lead to nothing to implicate her.

Today she got "justice."

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Taylor's residence was one of five being searched that night. Why would you expect them to sit outside and wait for her, potentially giving her several hours to destroy evidence of criminal activity?

Because we live in a country where you aren't supposed to get your door kicked in by armed agents of the state while you're asleep based on thin pretext.

There are many different life experiences in the geographic space the U.S. fills.

 

[rockinkt]

Taylor's residence was one of five being searched that night. Why would you expect them to sit outside and wait for her, potentially giving her several hours to destroy evidence of criminal activity?

Because...because...well...police are bad. And racist. Really racist. All of them.
Police should be convicted purely on wild statements in the press by people who are certainly not aware of any facts.
Or, because the eminent legal scholar Lebron James says so.
Isn't that reason enough to ignore reality and to ask police to completely screw up or not pursue investigations involving murder and drug dealing?
The facts regarding this case are in. The police were doing their job, The friends and family of Taylor and their lawyers were lying and exaggerating. Race baiting at it's finest.

 

[Bogative]

all the others say they didn't.

Are you saying the one neighbor is lying?

Should the other neighbors have heard the police as well? If so, what do you base that expectation on?

 

[rdwight]

one neighbor.

all the others say they didn't.
but i guess in doubt for the cops ...

Is that reported somewhere? Wasn't sure if the information dump has happened already or not. I don't see a reason to really dispute the idea, since both the police and the boyfriend say they were knocking. If he couldn't hear them, it wouldn't make a difference in how he would react. Depending on the layout of the apartment I could definitely see that being the case.

In the end I don't think people care at all about the the mitigating factors. That doesn't bode well for the future, but it seems to be the way things are going. Might be for the best. Push **** over to the extreme on the opposite end until they lead back to somewhere more acceptable. The main thing is that the risk involved in this raid was not worth the reward. Too many of these things go sideways. They will say there isn't but there has to be a better way to go about them.