Independent discoveries of the same thing

[ahhell]

As was virtually everything I said (see chimpanzees inventing techno-pop), as well as the entirety of my posting history.

Fair point.

 

[arthwollipot]

I'd argue that murder, being a moral judgement, is absolutely an invention. War too, depending how you define it.

Well everything depends on how you define it. If you define murder as "extrajudicial killing" I can't consider it an invention since animals have been doing that for millions of years.

 

[theprestige]

Well everything depends on how you define it. If you define murder as "extrajudicial killing" I can't consider it an invention since animals have been doing that for millions of years.

Judicial killings and their opposite are human inventions.

You can't have extrajudicial killings without a judiciary.

Unless you're saying that the human judiciary passes criminal judgement according to human law, on animal-on-animal violence.

 

[ahhell]

Murders are not just extrajudicial killings, they are unlawful killings. So really, someone needed to invent laws for there to be murder. Then I imagine someone got killed and they then go, "Hey, since we have these fancy new laws, we should make that illegal too."

Pedantic point to be sure but there are all sorts of killings that aren't generally called murder that are extrajudicial. If we limit killing to people then manslaughter extrajudicial but not generally called murder, killing in wars usually not called murder depending on other factors.

Come to think of it, killing has been a thing our ancestors have done since before we were human. So really murder is something someone invented. No animal has ever murdered anything, they just kill things.

 

[arthwollipot]

Murders are not just extrajudicial killings, they are unlawful killings. So really, someone needed to invent laws for there to be murder. Then I imagine someone got killed and they then go, "Hey, since we have these fancy new laws, we should make that illegal too."

Pedantic point to be sure but there are all sorts of killings that aren't generally called murder that are extrajudicial. If we limit killing to people then manslaughter extrajudicial but not generally called murder, killing in wars usually not called murder depending on other factors.

Come to think of it, killing has been a thing our ancestors have done since before we were human. So really murder is something someone invented. No animal has ever murdered anything, they just kill things.

Then the "invention" is not the act of killing, but the laws that make it illegal.

 

[ahhell]

Then the "invention" is not the act of killing, but the laws that make it illegal.

Also the moral sense to realize some killings are wrong but, yes.

 

[a_unique_person]

 

[EHocking]

Ahell suggested that the inventions on my off-hand list were handed down from this group of survivors 70,000 years ago. Some of the things on that list (marriage, social structures, etc) were not believed to have come about for tens of millenia later (with the advance of civilization), so I'd argue that it was not bloody freaking likely.

Ah. I missed the all of that discussion.
Sorry for my confusion

 

[dudalb]

There is a lively debate about exactly who invented the Motion Picture; It might not have been Edison after all.

 

[Ron Obvious]

There is a lively debate about exactly who invented the Motion Picture; It might not have been Edison after all.

Never thought it was.

 

[gabeygoat]

Ahell suggested that the inventions on my off-hand list were handed down from this group of survivors 70,000 years ago. Some of the things on that list (marriage, social structures, etc) were not believed to have come about for tens of millenia later (with the advance of civilization), so I'd argue that it was not bloody freaking likely.

Maybe not paper marriage, but I'm pretty sure there was some sort of family. And re:social structures, even modern chimpanzees and bonobos have complex social structures.