Impressive demonstration of no-touch martial art

[arthwollipot]

...Problem is, it is almost impossible to debunk this stuff in China. Not because it's actually impossible to debunk, but because of the results of debunking.

You see, these things are considered by many to be a source of national pride, a quintessential part of Chinese heritage and culture. They are 'proofs' of the superiority of Chinese martial arts, and of the ancient wisdom that stretches back for millennia.

Therefore, attacking these things is attacking Chinese culture itself. It is causing China as a nation to 'lose face'. Some people who have attempted to debunk such things have found themselves the victims of violent attacks by masked thugs, and public condemnation.

Acupuncture is the same. It's no accident that by far the vast majority of scientific papers purporting to show the effectiveness of acupuncture have a long list of Chinese names at the top. It isn't a failed medicine, it's nationalist propaganda.

 

[Wolfman]

Acupuncture is the same. It's no accident that by far the vast majority of scientific papers purporting to show the effectiveness of acupuncture have a long list of Chinese names at the top. It isn't a failed medicine, it's nationalist propaganda.

Yup. Completely. Chinese doctors who have sought to debunk acupuncture and TCM have found themselves beaten up, and some have been fired.

 

[Chanakya]

I suspect you are absolutely correct. I honestly do not remember if Xu Xiaodong has been brought up in this thread & there would be many messages to scroll through so I did not put in that level of due diligence (though I did search the thread for Xiaodong). I kind of think he's been mentioned but I am not certain.

In any case, he's an amateur MMA guy closer to middle age than to young, who has gone around China challenging martial arts masters who he views as practicing bullshido. He has, of course, humiliated all of them (and not due to being amazingly skilled —as I mention, he's sort of old and not by any means a pro at this). The point is that, since these old masters are viewed by the Chinese government as embodying or transmitting a Chinese cultural treasure, Xu Xiaodong's actions are not viewed as a positive but as strongly antisocial acts (or even acts against the nation of China). As a result, it has been Xu Xiaodong who has suffered most of the repercussions, rather than the fraudulent martial artists who are viewed as being victimized.

That reasoning is so convoluted that I'm having difficulty wrapping my head around it.


eta: The Chinese government's reasoning, I mean. That at the end of these clear demonstrations, regards this BS as "treasure", those grifters and/or delusionals as respectable, and the debunker as the bad guy.

 

[theprestige]

That reasoning is so convoluted that I'm having difficulty wrapping my head around it.


eta: The Chinese government's reasoning, I mean. That at the end of these clear demonstrations, regards this BS as "treasure", those grifters and/or delusionals as respectable, and the debunker as the bad guy.

Seems pretty straightforward to me. What part do you find confusing?

 

[Chanakya]

Seems pretty straightforward to me. What part do you find confusing?

The convoluted reasoning?

(Are you serious, or just being you? If you're actually serious, then happy to clarify what I meant.)

 

[theprestige]

The convoluted reasoning?

(Are you serious, or just being you? If you're actually serious, then happy to clarify what I meant.)

I'm being serious. I just don't see any convolutions in the reasoning. Society prizes cultural heritage over scientific fact, protects the former over the latter. That looks like a straight line to me. Where's the twists you're struggling to map?

 

[Chanakya]

I'm being serious. I just don't see any convolutions in the reasoning. Society prizes cultural heritage over scientific fact, protects the former over the latter. That looks like a straight line to me. Where's the twists you're struggling to map?

Ok, cool, let me spell it out then. Sure, they'll cherish their martial arts culture, absolutely they will. But the thing is, their martial arts isn't all BS, right? There's a great deal of actual worth in there. So if you can sift out the wheat from the chaff as it were, then, even from a Chinese nationalist perspective, I should think that would be doing them a service, by getting rid of the grifters and the delusionals, and ridding that culture of all of this nonsense. ...Because the culture will still retain its martial arts, just it'll only be the real deal now. And in the process, those who queue up there to learn this stuff, including poor young boys hoping to make good, they'll not be cheated but get to learn something real.

That's what's so convoluted about this reasoning. It only makes sense if Chinese martial arts were BS from top to bottom, with nothing of substance to it, then I guess what they're doing now might make some kind of sense. But given that that's not true, given that Chinese martial arts does have lots of good stuff in there, then ...how on earth, this twisted thinking, that makes this BS variety of that culture some kind of treasure, and the practitioners of that BS respectable, and the debunkers end up becoming the bad guys?


eta: To clarify further: If there's a culture that has palm-reading and astrology among things its values greatly, or say if the televangelist nonsense ended up becoming mainstream somehow. Then I can see how debunking these would be seen as antinational antisocial and the rest of it, so that debunking the BS will mean debunking the whole thing itself. Because there's nothing of worth, at all, to palmreading and astrology and invoking Jesus, not even the least bit. There might be some historical worth there, sure, but the craft of palm reading, the craft of divining the future basis the planets, the craft of listening out for Jesus is saying to you and then transmitting that message to others, these are all of zero value.

But not so martial arts. Therefore, I'd imagine they'd welcome a cleaning up of their house, because what'll remain after the cleaning up will be of real worth.

Yeah, since they're apparently doing the exact opposite thing, then clearly they're thinking the exact opposite thing. But the only way their thinking isn't convoluted, isn't twisted, is if they believed that their martial arts are of zero real worth (like palmreading and astrology and Jesus-divining-and-worship), so that the only way to keep holding them up is by propping up the BS.

 

[arthwollipot]

I'm being serious. I just don't see any convolutions in the reasoning. Society prizes cultural heritage over scientific fact, protects the former over the latter. That looks like a straight line to me. Where's the twists you're struggling to map?

Especially Chinese society, which has suffered under a massive inferiority complex since the Opium Wars. Everything that promotes Chinese superiority over Europe is embraced and aggressively supported by the Chinese government.

 

[Wolfman]

That's what's so convoluted about this reasoning. It only makes sense if Chinese martial arts were BS from top to bottom, with nothing of substance to it, then I guess what they're doing now might make some kind of sense. But given that that's not true, given that Chinese martial arts does have lots of good stuff in there, then ...how on earth, this twisted thinking, that makes this BS variety of that culture some kind of treasure, and the practitioners of that BS respectable, and the debunkers end up becoming the bad guys?

I lived in China for 25 years, so allow me to provide some insight.


China spent centuries being one of the premier world powers, unrivaled and unchallenged in their region of the world. Then the Western imperialists came, and China was subjected to a long period of humiliation at the hands of foreigners.

To this day, they haven't overcome that feeling of shame, and feel a deep, almost instinctive need to demonstrate their superiority.

These fake martial artists are a part of that. They 'prove' that Chinese martial arts, and the masters responsible for them, are superior to everyone else. Nobody else can do what they do.

More than that, their powers are supposedly derived from thousands of years of Chinese history and culture, of a deep knowledge and wisdom that nobody else has access to. Again, proving China's superiority.

MMA is, by contrast, a foreign thing. Most of the skills come from backgrounds that have nothing to do with China.

SO -- when MMA is used to not only defeat, but to humiliate a Chinese 'master', the only thing that is important is that -- yet again -- foreign powers have defeated Chinese powers.

The question of the legitimacy of those powers is absolutely irrelevant; as is the issue of proving that real Chinese martial arts actually are useful.

The issue is that Chinese claims of superiority have been proven by a foreign power. Even though it's a Chinese guy doing it, he's still using skills and knowledge that were acquired outside of China, and that are derived from non-Chinese martial arts.

THUS -- he has made China lose face. And since many of his fights have been made available internationally, he's made China lose face in front of the entire world. People are openly mocking respected Chinese martial artists, and claiming that the foreign MMA is superior to anything China has to offer.

There is nothing rational in this response; it is a deeply emotional response. But it's a powerful, instinctive response.

 

[Roboramma]

I don't know about the rationality of the response on the level of the average individual Chinese person. But from the perspective of the government, whose power is at least partially related to nationalist sentiment, it seems entirely rational to me. The effectiveness or lack thereof of Chinese martial arts has absolutely no bearing on anything the government cares about, but the perception of the value of the Chinese cultural heritage certainly does.

 

[Chanakya]

I lived in China for 25 years, so allow me to provide some insight.


China spent centuries being one of the premier world powers, unrivaled and unchallenged in their region of the world. Then the Western imperialists came, and China was subjected to a long period of humiliation at the hands of foreigners.

To this day, they haven't overcome that feeling of shame, and feel a deep, almost instinctive need to demonstrate their superiority.

These fake martial artists are a part of that. They 'prove' that Chinese martial arts, and the masters responsible for them, are superior to everyone else. Nobody else can do what they do.

More than that, their powers are supposedly derived from thousands of years of Chinese history and culture, of a deep knowledge and wisdom that nobody else has access to. Again, proving China's superiority.

MMA is, by contrast, a foreign thing. Most of the skills come from backgrounds that have nothing to do with China.

SO -- when MMA is used to not only defeat, but to humiliate a Chinese 'master', the only thing that is important is that -- yet again -- foreign powers have defeated Chinese powers.

The question of the legitimacy of those powers is absolutely irrelevant; as is the issue of proving that real Chinese martial arts actually are useful.

The issue is that Chinese claims of superiority have been proven by a foreign power. Even though it's a Chinese guy doing it, he's still using skills and knowledge that were acquired outside of China, and that are derived from non-Chinese martial arts.

THUS -- he has made China lose face. And since many of his fights have been made available internationally, he's made China lose face in front of the entire world. People are openly mocking respected Chinese martial artists, and claiming that the foreign MMA is superior to anything China has to offer.

There is nothing rational in this response; it is a deeply emotional response. But it's a powerful, instinctive response.

Thanks for the explanation! Right, given that historical context, makes sense.

But, and like I was saying, that response [eta: I mean the response of the Chinese govt to the debunking, not your response to me] is so ...convoluted. As you say, irrational. ...Like I was saying to theprestige, one can kind-of get it if what that culture was about had zero intrinsic worth, so that if you clear out the BS you end up clearing up the whole structure of it. But here you've got Chinese martial arts, which is a cool thing, a real thing. If you get rid of the dross, then you'll not be left with nothing, you'll now be left with the real substantial portions.


...But I get what you're saying. What they'll be left with minus the BS will still be real, will still be cool; and in as much as it goes back historically to well before the West got to learn all of this, it is certainly "superior" in a historical sense; but in the present, absolutely, it'll mean they're no longer something completely extraordinary, but something that others also are doing, and all things considered now doing better. Not quite as dramatic, that, so ...yeah, given everything, makes sense.

 

[Wolfman]

Thanks for the explanation! Right, given that historical context, makes sense.

My pleasure. And a further note:

* IF this was done entirely by Chinese people
* IF the 'debunking' process involved no foreign aspects (ie. foreign fighting styles, foreign fighters, etc.)
* IF the process were kept almost entirely internal, with little exposure to the outside world...

...THEN the type of change that you are talking about would be possible. For example, if real Chinese martial arts masters were to use their own martial arts to defeat these fake 'masters', and if it were a process that was not broadcast outside of China, then it would probably have real impact.

However, this is extremely unlikely to happen, for two reasons. First is the obvious one, that in the modern day of the internet, it would be almost impossible to keep this within China. And second, less obviously, but just as important, there is the fact that all Chinese martial arts experts are supposed to automatically respect other masters/elders. Seeking to humiliate them by proving they are fakes is simply not done...it would potentially reflect more negatively on the person defeating them, than on the person being defeated.

 

[Myriad]

The solution is, for students of the various martial arts masters in the same town to wear their respective characteristic uniforms constantly, and be in a state of constant warfare where they fight with each other on sight, vandalize one another's businesses, kidnap their girlfriends, and attempt to assassinate one another's masters. The truly effective technique would soon become clear, when the talented student whose business was vandalized, girlfriend kidnapped, and master assassinated returns for revenge.

 

[Roboramma]

The solution is, for students of the various martial arts masters in the same town to wear their respective characteristic uniforms constantly, and be in a state of constant warfare where they fight with each other on sight, vandalize one another's businesses, kidnap their girlfriends, and attempt to assassinate one another's masters. The truly effective technique would soon become clear, when the talented student whose business was vandalized, girlfriend kidnapped, and master assassinated returns for revenge.

At which point the usefulness of firearms would quickly be rediscovered...

A BJJ teacher of mine had an enlightening story about a time he got in a fight with a guy at a party. After a bit of a tussle he broke the guy's arm with an armbar. The guy left. Half and hour later he came back with a handgun and held it to my teacher's face with his finger on the trigger while yelling that he was going to kill him for a while.

(My teacher a 7 time Brazilian champion in his weight class, won bronze at the pan ams, has some wins in MMA, though didn't compete too much there, and was generally a world class competitor in BJJ).

 

[Wolfman]

The solution is, for students of the various martial arts masters in the same town to wear their respective characteristic uniforms constantly, and be in a state of constant warfare where they fight with each other on sight, vandalize one another's businesses, kidnap their girlfriends, and attempt to assassinate one another's masters. The truly effective technique would soon become clear, when the talented student whose business was vandalized, girlfriend kidnapped, and master assassinated returns for revenge.

Yeah, but then you end up with flying people clogging up the sky, people ruining your clay tile roofs as they run across them, all sorts of household items being ruined as they're used as impromptu weapons, etc. And occasionally gods or demons appearing and either wreaking havok on their own, or possessing someone's body and wreaking havok with that.

It's just not worth the trouble.

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

You people are Chicken Littles. The lone hero always wins in the end.

 

[Thermal]

My pleasure. And a further note:

* IF this was done entirely by Chinese people
* IF the 'debunking' process involved no foreign aspects (ie. foreign fighting styles, foreign fighters, etc.)
* IF the process were kept almost entirely internal, with little exposure to the outside world...

...THEN the type of change that you are talking about would be possible. For example, if real Chinese martial arts masters were to use their own martial arts to defeat these fake 'masters', and if it were a process that was not broadcast outside of China, then it would probably have real impact.

I think everyone is actually right here. The trick is that there are two tiers going on at the same time. One is the martial arts community and it's observers (us) that are thinking in terms of woo-peddlers getting publicly pwned. The other is that these are Chinese fighters challenging other Chinese fighters publicly in China. That brings up the political-cultural slap in the face. Xi (his bout and discussion were posted a long time ago ITT) was kind of humiliating a part of Chinese culture, saying what they traditionally revere is a bunch of bull ****. That stung, and the government stung the brother back by reducing his social credit to cramp him hard. So what Wolfman said was entirely true, this goes above and beyond the effectiveness of fighting styles.

However, this is extremely unlikely to happen, for two reasons. First is the obvious one, that in the modern day of the internet, it would be almost impossible to keep this within China. And second, less obviously, but just as important, there is the fact that all Chinese martial arts experts are supposed to automatically respect other masters/elders. Seeking to humiliate them by proving they are fakes is simply not done...it would potentially reflect more negatively on the person defeating them, than on the person being defeated.

The thing is, a match is a match. You can fully respect your opponent, and still let loose on them with both barrels. You generally don't unload, if you know you can beat your opponent (mismatched skills), but that shouldn't be the case with "masters of no-touch". So unloading on a self-proclaimed "no -touch master", who is in the match willingly, is clean pool.

General note: these MMA guys in the videos don't really seem to be using MMA. They are just punching hard and committed. Chinese fighting generally doesn't strike like that, favoring short uncommitted punches (Wudang or others might correct me here), so a muscled up guy who has a competent cross or hook is at an advantage over a guy who has not trained against such a strike, which is practical in context because he doesn't come up against them. Kind of like you might not practice much against a spear attack; it's just not something you deal with. Chinese TMA value control and refined, precise strikes. Westerners fight like gorillas. So maybe what TMA needs to think about is "well guys, we are not fighting gentlemen anymore, we're fighting apes and need to adapt to that if we are going to survive". Oversimplified, yeah, but that's the gist, I think.

 

[Thermal]

Three words to end all debate: dance-off, bro.

 

[Wudang]

Chinese fighting generally doesn't strike like that, favoring short uncommitted punches (Wudang or others might correct me here), so a muscled up guy who has a competent cross or hook is at an advantage over a guy who has not trained against such a strike, which is practical in context because he doesn't come up against them.

Yes have to correct you. There's a massive variety of CMA styles and many have as hard and committed a punch as you could hope to avoid.

 

[Thermal]

Yes have to correct you. There's a massive variety of CMA styles and many have as hard and committed a punch as you could hope to avoid.

I defer to your knowledge, then, thanks. My experience is only in a couple years of Wing Chun, and my daughter in Northern Wushu, but I can't recall ever seeing a lunging hook or cross thrown by a Chinnese TMA practitioner. The Hsing-I boys were into power, and others I'm sure too, but the committed Western style bulldozing hook was something that seems foreign to TMA.

 

[Wudang]

I defer to your knowledge, then, thanks. My experience is only in a couple years of Wing Chun, and my daughter in Northern Wushu, but I can't recall ever seeing a lunging hook or cross thrown by a Chinnese TMA practitioner. The Hsing-I boys were into power, and others I'm sure too, but the committed Western style bulldozing hook was something that seems foreign to TMA.

Yeah, broad brush here but Wing chun specialize as you know. Northern Wushu tends to emphasize kicks due to the rocky terrain, and Hsing I tends to focus on aggressive straight line attacks which is why I find that Ba Gua cancels out Hsing I.

eta: Also traditional Chinese full contact like the lei tai didn't use boxing gloves so were more careful of their knuckles (except those that did knuckle conditioning) and hooks were often replaced by strikes with heel of the palm which has interesting strength thanks to our brachiating ancestors.

eta 2 - the gloves we used in lei tai were somewhere between MMA gloves and driving gloves.

 

[arthwollipot]

Yeah, broad brush here but Wing chun specialize as you know. Northern Wushu tends to emphasize kicks due to the rocky terrain, and Hsing I tends to focus on aggressive straight line attacks which is why I find that Ba Gua cancels out Hsing I.

Unless your opponent has studied his Agrippa. Which I have.

 

[Wudang]

Unless your opponent has studied his Agrippa. Which I have.

Or his Sun Tzu. About which

Sun Tzu would write the classic general's manual, "The Art of War." Why was he such a genius in the ways of warfare?
This ancient verse from the 6th century BC Zhou kingdom may shed some light:
"Well I never blamed him 'cuz he run and hid,
But the meanest thing that ever did
Was before he left, he went and named me Tzu."
And later:
"Some gal would giggle and I'd get red,
Some guy'd laugh and I'd bust his head
I tell ya, life ain't easy for a boy named Tzu."

 

[Thermal]

Yeah, broad brush here but Wing chun specialize as you know. Northern Wushu tends to emphasize kicks due to the rocky terrain, and Hsing I tends to focus on aggressive straight line attacks which is why I find that Ba Gua cancels out Hsing I.

We did a little Bagua (Sigung was a big fan, so a few seminars and we'd walk the circle and all a couple times a month). Regarding canceling: my kid doing Aikido got a mean case of white belt syndrome and thought she was invincible for a while. She dared me (friendly, of course) to take a run at her. I came at her all Wingy Chunny, and she didn't know what to do. We had a cool talk afterwards about committed and uncommitted attacks.

eta: Also traditional Chinese full contact like the lei tai didn't use boxing gloves so were more careful of their knuckles (except those that did knuckle conditioning) and hooks were often replaced by strikes with heel of the palm which has interesting strength thanks to our brachiating ancestors.

eta 2 - the gloves we used in lei tai were somewhere between MMA gloves and driving gloves.

I had an instructor once who was very adamant about that: heel to the head, punch to the body, because those little tiny bones can your hand can be a bit more fragile than many would like to believe. In Tang Soo, we did relentless knuckle push-ups till we got quarter sized knuckles (index and middle, not Sun Fist).

I think I know those gloves, TKD likes them. Just enough to take off the edge, but not much more.

Eta: I remember trying out the strength of a heel strike versus punch on a demo job. Sure enough, punching through drywall hurt a hell of a lot more and was a lot less effective than a palm heel strike

 

[Wudang]

Yeah the main danger to your hands are the cheekbones - close to the jaw and other good places to hit but solid. I know a couple of guys who got into fights and left the other guy on the floor then had their hand in plaster. Pyrrhic victory.

 

[Delvo]

It was the problem of punching that made me realize something I hadn't previously known about myself: I have bigger thumbs than usual. They make it difficult to form a fist that doesn't have the thumb too far forward relative to the knuckles, so the impact could apply a sudden sideways force to my own thumb, as if I were trying to dislocate it myself. If I were to pursue a martial art with much use of punching, I'd need to adapt it for myself by mostly replacing the punches with palm-heel strikes or alternative methods that aren't hand-strikes at all.

But my own hands are the only ones I really look at & pay attention to much, so they look normal to me, and whenever I notice normal people's hands, I wonder how the rest of you can get through life with those useless-looking little chimpanzee-stumps you have.

 

[Wudang]

It was the problem of punching that made me realize something I hadn't previously known about myself: I have bigger thumbs than usual. They make it difficult to form a fist that doesn't have the thumb too far forward relative to the knuckles, so the impact could apply a sudden sideways force to my own thumb, as if I were trying to dislocate it myself.

I am not a doctor but you might want too avoid too much heavy punchbag work. I staved both thumbs many years ago and it's a constant nuisance.

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

Have any no-touch masters gone against each other? I'm picturing them just staring each other down. Wouldn't they recognize that the other guy wasn't doing anything to them? So many questions.

 

[theprestige]

Have any no-touch masters gone against each other? I'm picturing them just staring each other down. Wouldn't they recognize that the other guy wasn't doing anything to them? So many questions.

It seems the answer is that they would be participating in a ritualized affirmation of cultural greatness, not competing in a zero-sum test of individual physical, mental, and technical superiority, nor seeking a scientific proof of some hypothesis about the relative merits of one martial art over another.

So no, they wouldn't notice or care if the other guy is "doing anything to them". Because that's not the point. None of this is designed or intended to even consider your questions, let alone try to answer them. You are not the audience. You're not part of their story.

 

[Wudang]

Have any no-touch masters gone against each other? I'm picturing them just staring each other down. Wouldn't they recognize that the other guy wasn't doing anything to them? So many questions.

The closest you might see is "chi power" demonstrations where a teacher will push around his rag dollown student and the other will do a similar interpretive dance demo with his. Everyone applauds, medals for all and it was all about the friends they made along the way.

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

It seems the answer is that they would be participating in a ritualized affirmation of cultural greatness, not competing in a zero-sum test of individual physical, mental, and technical superiority, nor seeking a scientific proof of some hypothesis about the relative merits of one martial art over another.

So no, they wouldn't notice or care if the other guy is "doing anything to them". Because that's not the point. None of this is designed or intended to even consider your questions, let alone try to answer them. You are not the audience. You're not part of their story.

I have a hard time believing that. These demonstrations aren't just formulaic rituals, they're meant to be actual proof of mental powers producing physical results. And part of the cultural pride is in showing the rest of the world that they're capable of doing it. I can't help but think we are -- at least peripherally -- part of their story.

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

The closest you might see is "chi power" demonstrations where a teacher will push around his rag dollown student and the other will do a similar interpretive dance demo with his. Everyone applauds, medals for all and it was all about the friends they made along the way.

I suspect you're right. I couldn't find two chi masters going at each other, though I confess I only did a quick search.

 

[Thermal]

I remember when taking Aikido that the teacher always emphasized the gentleness and cooperative spirit in the usual classes. Then once in a while he'd look around at the start of class, see it was all the bruisers in attendance, and say "OK boys, let's have a little fun" and we worked everything hard and tight. Looked more like a Judo class, which isn't all that surprising since a lot of the techniques are shared.

 

[Armitage72]

The reaction of the Chinese government to debunkers reminds me of that girl James Randi exposed who could supposedly read while blindfolded. She used a custom "blindfold" made from swim goggles and she had a slightly malformed nose that allowed her to see around the edge of the goggles when they were on.
Her family's angry reaction afterward was "Why did you do it Mr. Randi? Don't you believe in God?" They believed her ability was a divine miracle, so exposing the truth was seen as a direct attack on their core beliefs.

 

[arthwollipot]

The reaction of the Chinese government to debunkers reminds me of that girl James Randi exposed who could supposedly read while blindfolded. She used a custom "blindfold" made from swim goggles and she had a slightly malformed nose that allowed her to see around the edge of the goggles when they were on.
Her family's angry reaction afterward was "Why did you do it Mr. Randi? Don't you believe in God?" They believed her ability was a divine miracle, so exposing the truth was seen as a direct attack on their core beliefs.

When Sanal Edamaruku demonstrated that the "holy water" that appeared to be coming from a statue of a saint was actually leaking sewage, he was literally chased out of the country and currently lives in Finland.

People do not like their sacred cows to be tipped.

 

[shemp]

When Sanal Edamaruku demonstrated that the "holy water" that appeared to be coming from a statue of a saint was actually leaking sewage, he was literally chased out of the country and currently lives in Finland.

People do not like their sacred cows to be tipped.

One should never tip a cow. They always give bad service.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Yup. Completely. Chinese doctors who have sought to debunk acupuncture and TCM have found themselves beaten up, and some have been fired.

Of course, what sane and rational person would go against the will of Divine Mao, bringer of true Chinese medecine? /s.

 

[Wolfman]

Of course, what sane and rational person would go against the will of Divine Mao, bringer of true Chinese medecine? /s.

Well, just for clarity's sake, Mao has pretty much been discredited and dethroned by the modern Chinese state. Very few urbanites would even claim to LIKE Mao, much less see him as infallible.

Mao really only retains cult status among elderly peasants. Other than that, these days it's all about Xi Jinping, who has adopted most of Mao's tactics to install himself as the new cult leader. This includes:

* Writing a bunch of "Sayings of Xi Jinping" that all school children must memorize and repeat
* Revoking the two-term limit on being President, so that he can be President-for-life
* Creating a political orthodoxy that allows no dissenting voices
* Eliminating political enemies
* Instituting truly Orwellian means of tracking and controlling the actions of all Chinese citizens

 

[dellarte]

The deadliest self-defence move.