Split Thread ICE arrests mayor

Mojo said:
Can you provide an authority for that? Case law, legislation, or constitution.
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You're asking for a legal determination or law that a President cannot be charge or convicted for violating the law?
 
ponderingturtle said:
Except that the act of being let in is legally an invitation.
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That is the correct interpretation of law. The mayor is clearly an invitee under the law in this instance. It is utterly irrelevant what representations may have been made, or what circumstances may have prevailed, prior to the granting of license to enter. But once granted, that license is a defense against a charge of trespassing. Under case law, a person whose license to remain is revoked must leave "forthwith" or be liable to a further charge of trespassing, but this is defined as a reasonable time to effect a departure and does not render the prior sojourn retrospectively a trespass.
 
JayUtah said:
That is the correct interpretation of law. The mayor is clearly an invitee under the law in this instance. It is utterly irrelevant what representations may have been made, or what circumstances may have prevailed, prior to the granting of license to enter. But once granted, that license is a defense against a charge of trespassing. Under case law, a person whose license to remain is revoked must leave "forthwith" or be liable to a further charge of trespassing, but this is defined as a reasonable time to effect a departure and does not render the prior sojourn retrospectively a trespass.
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We dont know why he was let in.

He may have threatened to have the guy fired if he was not let in.

He may have lied about his authority to enter the complex.

You're assuming it was all up and up and honest.

However, at some point ICE told him to leave, and he did not leave at first. That may have been criminal.
 
Hercules56 said:
We dont know why he was let in.

He may have threatened to have the guy fired if he was not let in.
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And? I laughed that off when I had a lousy retail job. I can't imagine that threat would hold any weight with a federal employee.
Hercules56 said:
He may have lied about his authority to enter the complex.
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Which is why you have a managerial hierarchy. You don't know about this guy? Call your manager.
Hercules56 said:
You're assuming it was all up and up and honest.
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What possible lie could Baraka have told that could not have been shattered with a phone call?
Hercules56 said:
However, at some point ICE told him to leave, and he did not leave at first. That may have been criminal.
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Told by whom? A security guard who doesn't understand policy in your scenario?
 
Donal said:
And? I laughed that off when I had a lousy retail job. I can't imagine that threat would hold any weight with a federal employee.

Which is why you have a managerial hierarchy. You don't know about this guy? Call your manager.

What possible lie could Baraka have told that could not have been shattered with a phone call?

Told by whom? A security guard who doesn't understand policy in your scenario?
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There is no policy that allows a local mayor free access to a ICE facility at any time he desires.
 
Donal said:
I can't imagine that threat would hold any weight with a federal employee.
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Or anyone, although I would question whether it should be "carry weight" or "hold water." We'll leave it as read. When we teach our employees about physical security policy, the "I can get you fired" threat is explicitly covered. And no, it's never credible.

In general, an officer charged with guarding a facility can be presumed to know his duties. The guard is free to consult with his superior officers if he is unsure whether he must permit a person to enter. But nothing anywhere requires a person who has a lawful right of occupancy and a privacy or protection interest from resolving disputes over someone seeking entry by first granting entry. Any discussion can be had through the fence.
 
JayUtah said:
Alina Habba was general counsel for a parking garage company owned by her husband. You can draw your own conclusions regarding whether that position was obtained on merits. Prior to representing Donald Trump, she had only three cases as lead attorney, no experience as a prosecutor, and no experience in criminal defense. By prevailing standards she is utterly unqualified to be a U.S. Attorney, even on an interim basis.
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(Bolding added.) In my opinion it is absolutely reprehensible that trump appointed Habba to be US Attorney for New Jersey, even if only acting US Attorney. It's a well-aimed kick in the you-know-whats for all New Jersey citizens. Undoubtedly Habba's one qualification is she'll do whatever trump wants her to do. It's utterly demeaning to our democratic society, which I'm sure trump loves.

Horrible. :(
 
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JayUtah said:
She was not disbarred. The Bedminster employee sued the golf club and Habba. As part of the employee's prayer for relief, Habba was to be referred for discplinary action if the employee prevailed. The settlement of the suit extinguished that prayer.

Judge Kaplan threatened to refer her for bar discipline in the E. Jean Carroll case. In that case, Habba not only violated Judge Kaplan's orders, she displayed considerable incompetence in trial practice by not knowing how to enter evidence. She was also an attorney of record in Donald Trump's rambling lawsuit against Hillary Clinton for alleged interference in the 2016 election that was summarily dismissed. This is why I say I would not trust Alina Habba's understanding of law or trial practice.
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So she is utterly expendable if the going gets rough. Zero job security.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
It's amazing that when you look at people who shout "compromise" or "can't we all just learn to get along?" that all too often they're only interested in preserving the evil status quo.
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They also have no skin in the game. They are never willing to compromise on their own rights or well being. They always want others to sacrifice for the sake of their own "negative peace". Their comfort has more value than someone else's life. That's why they always, always, ALWAYS go right when things get tough.
 
This is a win for Baraka: he got arrested, had the charges wiped, ballooned into a national figure, and exposed the ICEstapo's goonish style. He's also
become a lively embarrassment to both Habba and Trumpff.
A pretty good haul for what wasn't even an act of civil disobedience.

The congresswoman is set to make an equally fine big splash in court, courtesy of a brain-dead Trunp flunkyette whom I wouldnt trust with a toilet brush, let alone a case at law.

The purpose of civil disobedience is to get yourself arrested. You can't exlose an unjust statute more directly than by doing that.

Jesus but this is old stuff.
 
Charges were dropped, Herc. I predicted the trespassing charges wouldn't stick, because there was no trespassing. Even after the charges were dropped for lack of evidence, or a lack of crime, you still insist the crime was comitted. Do you just lack the capacity to admit when you are wrong?
 
thaiboxerken said:
The judge overseeing the case had some choice words for the federal prosecutors about this:

newjerseyglobe.com

Judge dismisses Baraka charges, reprimands prosecutors - New Jersey Globe

A federal judge on Wednesday scolded federal prosecutors and announced he will dismiss trespassing charges against Newark Mayor Ras Baraka related to a
newjerseyglobe.com newjerseyglobe.com
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The judge must be one of those reenactors that dress up and pretend it is "the good old days":

“Federal prosecutors serve a single paramount client: justice itself,” Espinosa said. “Your role is not to secure convictions at all costs, nor to satisfy public clamor, nor to advance political agendas. Your allegiance is to the impartial application of the law, to the pursuit of truth, and to the upholding of due process for all.”​
​
 
Newark Mayor Ras Baraka has filed suit against Alina Habba, New Jersey’s acting Attorney General, and a Department of Homeland Security special agent, alleging false arrest and malicious prosecution. The suit was filed today. Baraka’s lawyers claim that the mayor had been invited past the gates at Delaney Hall by an agent from Geo Group, a private prison company that manages the newly reopened ICE facility. After Baraka exited the property, over a dozen DHS agents confronted and arrested him. As reported by the New Republic, the suit alleges:
[Lawyers allege] Habba had committed defamation, claiming that Trump’s former lawyer had made “false and defamatory statements” in a personal capacity, “despite Habba’s actual knowledge and reckless disregard of facts demonstrating his innocence.” DHS Special Agent Ricky Patel, who was listed as the other defendant, allegedly “egged on” other agents to “take him down” according to the filing. The lawsuit also alleged that Patel had delayed the submission of a charging document, unnecessarily extending Baraka’s detainment. New Republic article link
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Within an hour of Baraka's arrest -- while he was in custody but had not yet been formally charged -- Habba wrote on her X account:
that the mayor had “committed trespass” and “willingly chosen to disregard the law.” Habba added, “NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.” But Baraka's lawyers allege that Habba knew the mayor had been invited onto the property and was leaving voluntarily when he was arrested. The arrest was dismissed by a US Judge who criticized Habba's actions as being motivated by a political agenda.

For starters, Baraka wants an apology.

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newyorkguy said:
Newark Mayor Ras Baraka has filed suit against Alina Habba, New Jersey’s acting Attorney General, and a Department of Homeland Security special agent, alleging false arrest and malicious prosecution. The suit was filed today. Baraka’s lawyers claim that the mayor had been invited past the gates at Delaney Hall by an agent from Geo Group, a private prison company that manages the newly reopened ICE facility. After Baraka exited the property, over a dozen DHS agents confronted and arrested him. As reported by the New Republic, the suit alleges:


Within an hour of Baraka's arrest -- while he was in custody but had not yet been formally charged -- Habba wrote on her X account:
that the mayor had “committed trespass” and “willingly chosen to disregard the law.” Habba added, “NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.” But Baraka's lawyers allege that Habba knew the mayor had been invited onto the property and was leaving voluntarily when he was arrested. The arrest was dismissed by a US Judge who criticized Habba's actions as being motivated by a political agenda.

For starters, Baraka wants an apology.

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I would imagine a settlement in the region of one to two billion dollars per defendant would help resolve this situation. You know! Like the punitive judgements against Lindell and Giuliani by Dominion. And it would be a teachable moment too. As in: Learn to keep your fascist opinions to yourself if you are involved in legal proceedings.
 
surrogate said:
She is the acting U.S. attorney for the District of New Jersey (Federal), not New Jersey's acting Attorney General (State)...
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You're right of course -- federal, appointed by trump -- I was using the description from the New Republic. They used a poor choice of weords; I'm sure they also know Habba is the federal attorney.
 
Norman Alexander said:
I would imagine a settlement in the region of one to two billion dollars per defendant would help resolve this situation. You know! Like the punitive judgements against Lindell and Giuliani by Dominion. And it would be a teachable moment too. As in: Learn to keep your fascist opinions to yourself if you are involved in legal proceedings.
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They'll just hide behind claims of executing the duties of their office. Or some form of "Executive Privilege".
 
Donal said:
They'll just hide behind claims of executing the duties of their office. Or some form of "Executive Privilege".
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This is historically an effective defense, although the more accurate term is "executive immunity." Executive privilege refers to the right of an executive to withhold information from inquiry on the premise that internal discussions should not be routinely scrutinized by outside authority and that executive officers should be free to speak their minds behind closed doors.
 
Donal said:
They'll just hide behind claims of executing the duties of their office. Or some form of "Executive Privilege".
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The duties of Habba's office do not include publicly accusing and impugning a citizen of illegal actions they did not do, in the course of a civil law suit in which they are the defendant.
JayUtah said:
This is historically an effective defense, although the more accurate term is "executive immunity." Executive privilege refers to the right of an executive to withhold information from inquiry on the premise that internal discussions should not be routinely scrutinized by outside authority and that executive officers should be free to speak their minds behind closed doors.
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Neither of these applied to Habba's actions.
 
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