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I would like to donate to the JREF for...

I would like to donate to the JREF for...

  • Educational programs for teachers to introduce into the classroom.

    Votes: 36 63.2%
  • A skeptic's summer camp to reach out to the young'uns.

    Votes: 6 10.5%
  • Podcasts, newsletters, pamphlets, and books.

    Votes: 3 5.3%
  • Pay for TAM speakers who require an honorarium.

    Votes: 3 5.3%
  • More community events.

    Votes: 3 5.3%
  • Workshops held at the JREF headquarters.

    Votes: 1 1.8%
  • Other, will specify.

    Votes: 5 8.8%

  • Total voters
    57

RemieV

Philosopher
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Messages
5,292
Recent comments regarding the JREF have shown a trend toward believing that the Foundation should be doing more in the way of education.

Because of this, we're looking for responses to new ideas. What kinds of programs would you be willing to donate to, and help us implement?

I'm not saying that the JREF will necessarily adopt any of the ideas, but we would definitely be interested in hearing what you'd like to see in the JREF's future.

This is one of those important polls, so really think hard before you decide!

Thanks much,

RemieV

P.S. The "Community Events" option refers to JREF community events, like TAM, TAA, and forum get-togethers. Sorry for the misunderstanding! If you want to change your option, I'm sure a mod can go in and do that.
 
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I've often thought a speaker's series travelling the country might be a good idea, much like the chatauquas of old. Just a thought.
 
Isn't there a video floating around of Randi in a high school teaching how scientific methodology can be applied to evaluate astrology?

Sponsoring/creating programs like that would be neat.
 
Isn't there a video floating around of Randi in a high school teaching how scientific methodology can be applied to evaluate astrology?

Sponsoring/creating programs like that would be neat.

Randi continues to give lectures. You can find information on the different ones groups can book here as well as upcoming lectures here.
 
I feel really bad about this, but I haven't donated any money and probably will not any time immediately soon because I'm trying to get a new place and car and I'm tightening my belt to try to scrape together the funding in a timely manner.

Much as I value the jref, I assure any who question that I will make a sizable donation when I am able to more easily do so :-(
 
Educational programs for teachers to introduce into the classroom

If the programmes work, funding for all other options will be more likely
 
Girl 6 used to be involved in a similar sort of program, to develop critical thinking skills for kids in the classroom. She's gone now, so working with her on something like that is probably dead in the water.
 
1) Aim scholarships at being granted to recipients who declare an intent to use it for an educational or communicational program.

2) Create resources which can be used in an educational system. These can be text-based, but more effective means would be ICT based (such as animations, clips, resource sheets, activities etc.) or multi-media (film, such as Randi doing simple tricks or other magicians doing mentalism, with a focus on conveying thinking skills. His Nova program is still a resource I use over and over again).

Athon

(ETA: poll should allow for multiple choices)
 
Remie,

I'm sure you know some of the mods rather well.... Can't you make this a multiple choice poll? Wouldn't it be better to see all the options that people would contribute towards instead of just the single favorite? You might find that options 1 and 6 (just picking at random) have 92% and 90% support, respectively, but everyone feels that number one is waaaay more important, so they ignored the 6th.

ETA: Missed Athon's ETA... Well, I was more expansive on the rationale, though!
 
(ETA: poll should allow for multiple choices)

The reason I opted not to use multiple choices is simply that if an individual is going to donate at all, it's unlikely that they will be donating a high enough amount to be split up into multiple areas. If I am wrong, correct me :)

The poll is supposed to represent what you most want to see happen.

If an individual was going to donate only, say, a thousand dollars, it couldn't well be split into multiple areas. In order to raise enough money for one, the donations would have to go to it entirely.

Again, these are all just ideas and suggestions. None of the options have plans for being implemented further than they already have been. However, it's always good to get feedback and I'm sure that the JREF staff will take it into consideration.
 
I would have thought a program that is set in the community is a more benefical one. However is it to stay on Jref's homeland or will such aprogram be rolled out across the world?
 
I would have thought a program that is set in the community is a more benefical one. However is it to stay on Jref's homeland or will such aprogram be rolled out across the world?

I'm sorry, I may have been unclear there - the option is for JREF community events. TAM, TAA, forum get-togethers, that type of thing. If it will let me, I'll alter the option to reflect that ;)

If you would like to change your response, I'm sure you can report and ask a mod to undo the choice. Sorry again for being unclear!
 
Isn't there a video floating around of Randi in a high school teaching how scientific methodology can be applied to evaluate astrology?


From what I've seen of science education recently (admittedly only via the press), we need one demonstrating how scientific methodology can be applied to science. There seems to be far to much teaching to the syllabus and learning by rote.

Voted for the first option.
 
From what I've seen of science education recently (admittedly only via the press), we need one demonstrating how scientific methodology can be applied to science. There seems to be far to much teaching to the syllabus and learning by rote.

Voted for the first option.

Me too, and you are spot on with your comment. In the UK at least, science is now about teaching results of experiments, and politics, rather than methodology. No wonder kids are bored.
 
Me too, and you are spot on with your comment. In the UK at least, science is now about teaching results of experiments, and politics, rather than methodology. No wonder kids are bored.

Which, I think, is why Mythbusters is such a hit. They not only explain the myth, they teach how to test if the myth is true as explained and demonstrate how the myth can be done by other means.
 
Recent comments regarding the JREF have shown a trend toward believing that the Foundation should be doing more in the way of education.

Because of this, we're looking for responses to new ideas. What kinds of programs would you be willing to donate to, and help us implement?

I'm not saying that the JREF will necessarily adopt any of the ideas, but we would definitely be interested in hearing what you'd like to see in the JREF's future.

This is one of those important polls, so really think hard before you decide!

Thanks much,

RemieV

P.S. The "Community Events" option refers to JREF community events, like TAM, TAA, and forum get-togethers. Sorry for the misunderstanding! If you want to change your option, I'm sure a mod can go in and do that.

Would it be possible to have a poll where we can vote for more than one item? I narrowed it down, but there were other things I would really like to see as well.
 
Would it be possible to have a poll where we can vote for more than one item? I narrowed it down, but there were other things I would really like to see as well.

If everyone wants to vote for more than one, then I will change it. But again, this is considering that you would actually be donating a set sum in the future. No, this poll doesn't make you obligated or anything. But if this is working off the assumption that one day you may donate to something, it's unlikely that most people are going to donate a sum that could be split into other areas.

If the donation can't be split, then the option probably can't either. If everyone disagrees with me, pm me, and I'll change it (assuming I can figure out how). :)
 
I can't see how you couldn't give two donations, in which case, to two different causes. If that's the idea.

Athon
 
I know it's silly but I voted for the summer camp for kiddies. It reminds me of a favorite movie, Mr. Smith Goes To Washington. His dream of the Boys Camp. Well, we update it to Boys/Girls Camp and go with that. I'd contribute.
 
I can't see how you couldn't give two donations, in which case, to two different causes. If that's the idea.

Athon

Because all of these are expensive. It's unlikely that if the JREF chose to run one, they'd choose them all. If ten people, say, offered $1,000 apiece... Well, even $10,000 isn't enough for some of those options. If you go splitting the donations down the middle into two different things, then none of the options has enough whereas if each person chooses one, it might gain enough support.
 
the planet x option. I donate for the JREF to what it wishes to with the money.
 
Because all of these are expensive. It's unlikely that if the JREF chose to run one, they'd choose them all. If ten people, say, offered $1,000 apiece... Well, even $10,000 isn't enough for some of those options. If you go splitting the donations down the middle into two different things, then none of the options has enough whereas if each person chooses one, it might gain enough support.

Ah, I see. Ok, good point.

I still support the educational programs and resources (especially if they are multimedia), which would also present a potential use outside of the US. Funding camps and the like, while potentially useful, wouldn't be of concern to those outside the US.

Athon
 
Okay, here's my problem with this...

First of all, what we're looking at is the concentration of resources into one central repository. While it might seem like a good idea at first, given that we have experts who can use the resources wisely, (and no insult is intended; given what Randi has to work with, it's nothing short of incredible what the JREF has been able to do, particularly given the demands made), the problem is that once it goes to that central repository, it will be used at that point, for the purposes deemed urgent by those experts. This means that if you want to start a summer camp to help kids develop critical thinking skills, it takes a back seat to, say, a legal challenge brought up by anyone from Uri Gellar to the homeopaths. (Not so farfetched: Gellar has sued Randi in the past, and if he thought he'd get away with it, he'd try that stunt again.)

Secondly, it almost, almost, runs counter to the goals stated by Randi and the board, which was to expand critical thinking, and to encourage inquiry into not only the paranormal, but the world at large. Yes, the JREF needs funds to continue its work, but we need more emphasis on LOCAL activities, which bring JREF down to the community level. If all politics is local, so is all education, and there needs to be some sort of program to develop speakers, teachers, researchers, who work in local communities, who can continue what James Randi has begun.

Let me put it another way, one which will irritate the hell out of Rebecca: I can only drive 583 miles per day at 55 MPH legally. I can haul one load, period.

Add another truck, and you're adding one more load, and another 583 miles, for 1,166. Considering I earn my living per mile, that's a nice chunk of change.

Consider what a fleet of rigs pulls in.

This is the point: You want to build, for lack of a better term, a fleet of Randis, all out there promoting the idea of critical thinking, or skeptical inquiry, of rationality. It's great to listen to Christopher Hitchens. It's better when you can develop a broad-based understanding of his theories and beliefs, get others to expand on it, and get it out to the public. And while the idea of "franchising" this can lead to a high degree of intellectual schlock, (look at what it did for hamburgers!), if it's done right, with an eye towards intellectual excellence instead of market share, you have the opportunity to not only create a very deep impact on a society, but a very broad based one which will cross international boundaries, and which could conceivably begin to break some barriers which currently exist, ones which counterreligious zealotry have failed to crack.

I realize I'm just a busted up mutt trucker, but I worked in radio for several years, and I have sales experience. I've never been too proud for any job that paid a just wage and which I could at least attempt to do well. Your goal isn't simply to get the message out, but to get it heard. And while Marshall MacLuhan's infamous quote gets a lot of play these day, that "the medium is the message," it's easy to forget that the more media savvy people become, the more they want to see what the message really is. If all people are getting is sizzle, they're eventually going to realize there ain't gonna be no steak, and there's no reason to hang around.

If JREF, or any other organization, for that matter, is simply going to be a little haven for certain "elites," if there's no place for the average person to get into the fight, then in reality, there's less and less reason to contribute and to stay. This is something people deal with day in and day out at work, this sort of cliquishness. If they have to deal with it in other areas of their lives, they're eventually going to ask why, and they're going to leave.

But take another road on this one: what if you can build people in local communities who can speak to the facts, who can explain this fight, who can encourage others to get into it? What if we could encourage others to do what Robert Lancaster has done, or what so many others are doing? If your goal is to encourage people to get off their tuchas, and to get informed, to learn what's really going on in the world, why would you limit yourself to one or two people rolling up their sleeves and coming out fighting? I hate to break it to you, but we are outnumbered, and we're outgunned. When Ghost Whisperer is one of the most popular programs on TV, when people tune in to watch Uri Gellar rather than spit when his name is mentioned, when Britain actually considers setting up hospitals and licensing homeopaths, when actual lives are at stake, you cannot forsake any weapon at your disposal.

And quite frankly, when I see Nyar, when I see jj, when I see Athon, and so many others gone from here, people I respect and miss deeply, gone because of just that sort of thing, I have to wonder why I'm here at all, myself.

I don't have money. In spite of every effort, I may wind up losing my house. I owe too many people too much, and for all my efforts, it may come to nothing. The help I really need I can't get.

That's life. Hard, sad, true. That does not mean I don't want to contribute, nor does it mean I cannot contribute. I spent a significant part of my weekend in Coachella arguing with other drivers about why school prayer is wrong, and why separation of church and state is a wise idea. I may not have won any friends, but I think I got some folks to thinking. (And when you spend 11 hours behind the wheel, you get lots of time to think, even if you do have satellite radio.)

This is not just James Randi's fight. It's ours. If James Randi's the only one to do the fighting, it ends when he dies. And that's not worth thinking about. That's a diminution of what he's tried to acheive, and ultimately, it's an insult to him, and those who chose to stand with him.

I finally, after 25 years, got my mind back. There are people who don't like that. Tough. If they were so damned worried about my "salvation," they should have told me the truth in the first place. There were enough who knew the truth, and they chose to hide it. Screw them.

I'm watching as my nation is nosediving into the pseudoreligious compost, heading for Hell with declarations that God is on our side, neglecting the very notion of what might happen if the evangelicals are wrong. This is not the time to sit on the sidelines, it's time to come out fangs bared, kicking @$$, taking names, and making no excuses. I'll go where I'm needed, and where I'll be put to work. The cost of sitting on the sidelines is too great.
 
Roadtoad,

It's entirely possible that I'm being an idiot. I apologize if I am.

I don't see where your goals are different from the JREF's or why you start with "here's my problem with this". I do not see what the problem is. But again, I might just be oblivious.

Building a fleet of Randis is exactly what four out of six of the specific poll options are.

The other two are aimed more toward drawing people in to things like TAM, either by having more activities like that or by having speakers who want to get paid a fat chunk o'change. In that way, it would be possible to reach people who aren't 'skeptics' already by having an even wider range of changing guest speakers.

I understand the part about not having money to donate. Neither do I, really. I'm a poor college student.

Donating to the JREF is not the equivalent of donating to Randi's pocket, and funds collected for specific things are *not* used for whatever the JREF feels like using them for.

The money that was taken in donations recently ($10,000) was specifically for the forum, and that's what it is being used for - not for lawsuits, not for new carpet at the JREF or anything like that. The forum didn't take a backseat just because the JREF had other things that required funds. If there is enough interest for any of these options and the Staff agree it's a worthy cause, I do not see why there would ever be a redirect on the funds.

I agree that we should all get out there and fight the good fight, but there are times when a name is valuable, and in the world of skepticism, 'JREF' surely is. The JREF will, so far as I know, continue after Randi's death. The organization is not one man's fight, nor two, but a great number.

Again, if I've missed the point, I apologize. Please explain again if I have ;)
 
This is not just James Randi's fight. It's ours.

Strongly agreed. While organizations like JREF will continue to play a key role in the future of skepticism, it's ultimately up to us to see to its growth and viability.

I'd humbly offer that we look to successful efforts outside skepticism as models with which to experiment. Meetup is one such effort that we're having great success with in Denver. Another experiment is adapting barcamp from the tech-sector to provide avenues of participation, growth and a sense of ownership for the average skeptic. See my sig below for more details on the idea and our recent event.

And yes, I'm a JREF contributor, in case there was any question. :)

Edit: I should add that it's a great idea for JREF to produce educational materials on critical thinking. I'd help with that.
 
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I voted for the first option. As Mojo and Teek say, science education actually has very little science in it, it is all about parroting whatever you are told. Without better science and critical thinking in schools, other schemes just won't get anywhere. If science is seen as boring and dogmatic, why would children want to go to summer camps or read books about it? Most of the other options are really preaching to the choir. I think it is better to increase the size of the choir rather than improve the quality of the preaching.
 
I said "other". I'd donate to a fund that's dedicated to going after MDC claimants. I'd happily put money toward a full page NY Times ad that "calls out" Sylvia Browne, for example.
 
As a JREF donor, I only wish I could help out more monetarily. But I can't, so I can only donate my time to skepticism.

I think Davis needs a skeptics group. ;)
 
I'm in North Highlands.

Drop me a line.

Cool, will do.

I am still in very early stages, organizing my thoughts and learning how to make web pages, etc. Plus I just moved here. ;)

I definitely think the Sacramento area needs a group. The only one I have noticed is SORT, and another that now seems to be defunct.

ETA: Oh, and Brights too. Can't forget them.
 
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I still have a really tough time with making choices, and it sucks that I could only pick one...

It should come as very little surprise to anyone who knows me that I think something to allow young skeptics to have something like the fun we adults have at events would be swell...
 
Thanks everyone who voted in this poll. I am taking the information to JREF staff, and we'll see what happens!

I'll let you know about any progress made toward adopting these ideas, and if you think of any more program plans or suggestions, e-mail me at alison@randi.org and I'll make sure they get to the right place!
 
I missed the entire thing because I've been off the internet.

Ah, well...:(


Had I voted, it would have been for the first option.
 
Me too, and you are spot on with your comment. In the UK at least, science is now about teaching results of experiments, and politics, rather than methodology. No wonder kids are bored.

Yea, the process of science is not talked about too much, at least where I am coming from
Some profs know what's up though,
The top down design for cognive processing is pretty interesting. And a lot of the ideas that can test top down theories that mostly employ the fundamental ideas that are described in feature analysis articles (Treisman and the likewise other that came before hand)

Mythbusters, maybe heard the name before; but I was unfamiliar with what is it.
Sounds like a good idea for a show

I wish I could donate to a lot of places.
The forum seems pretty good
Thank you to the moderators and other people for all the time that has been put into a community as such.

Had I voted, it would have been for the first option.
 
So, how are discussions on this progressing then? It's now nearly March 2008...

Just curious.

Athon
 
I missed the entire thing because I've been off the internet.

Ah, well...:(


Had I voted, it would have been for the first option.


I missed it, too, but had I voted, I would have chosen either the first or second option.
 
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