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Merged Hunter Biden pardoned/was Biden right to pardon Hunter?

Was Joe Biden right to pardon his son Hunter?


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I thought Hunter had a pleasure deal worked out that was suddenly withdrawn by the judge to keep Trump and the GOP happy?
yeah, on a plea deal for a gun charge stemming from a multi-year long congressional investigation where he lied about drug use on a form to get a gun he was going to use to kill himself.

whether you think hunter biden was treated fairly or not is one thing, the law is the law. but seeing how the law is now optional, how egregiously corrupt was this pardon? of a president using his power to his personal benefit, how abusive was this? i think it barely moves the needle.
 
Regarding this matter of principle.

Does anyone think that Biden doesn't believe that his son has been prosecuted because of who he is, and is only facing long sentences because Biden is his father? Note I'm not asking if it is the case but whether Biden believes what he put in his statement? If you do then what principle do you think he breaking?
 
Donald says

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Does the Pardon given by Joe to Hunter include the J-6 Hostages, who have now been imprisoned for years? Such an abuse and miscarriage of Justice!

A clue as to what he's going to do?
 
The what, now? I don't think you're getting it. This is all perfectly legal and well within the designated powers of the US President.
Dishonest doesn’t mean illegal. But Joe said he would not pardon Hunter. And he did. He lied. How is that not dishonest?
 
Hmmm, I get it, I really do, but I don't like it. I'd have preferred they carried on fighting through the courts... it's not like they can't afford decent lawyers. And if they lost and he ended up imprisoned, hope the next president after Trump did the decent thing.

Yes what Biden did seems perfectly legal and yes you can't blame a father for doing it, but there's obviously a conflict of interest here and power should not be able to be wielded when there's such a conflict of interest. Biden did the right thing initially by recusing himself from any involvement.

And it's no good screaming that Trump is worse... he obviously is but the average Joe will not see that distinction. This will just become, 'they all do it' and as I understand it, he did do the crime and, whilst he may be punished to a more severe degree than the usual, the same could be applied to other people committing the same crime... it just usually isn't. So, yeah, they've made an example of him because of who he is, but making an example of someone by applying the maximum penalty is not unheard of nor wrong per se. Their motives in doing so are clearly politically oriented but again, afaik, they are merely pursuing him to the full extent of the law. ◊◊◊◊ that they chose to do so, but then he shouldn't have committed the crime(s).

Puts hard hat on and prepares for incoming....
 
Should say I think the whole federal presidential pardon system is a joke - as is demonstrated by how Biden has recently pardoned 3 turkeys. But it is what it is, an unconstrained and unilateral power of the presidency which has no limitations. Perhaps those that mind him pardoning his son should look at the power itself and see if it should be constrained?
 
Hmmm, I get it, I really do, but I don't like it. I'd have preferred they carried on fighting through the courts... it's not like they can't afford decent lawyers. And if they lost and he ended up imprisoned, hope the next president after Trump did the decent thing.

Yes what Biden did seems perfectly legal and yes you can't blame a father for doing it, but there's obviously a conflict of interest here and power should not be able to be wielded when there's such a conflict of interest. Biden did the right thing initially by recusing himself from any involvement.

And it's no good screaming that Trump is worse...
he obviously is but the average Joe will not see that distinction. This will just become, 'they all do it' and as I understand it, he did do the crime and, whilst he may be punished to a more severe degree than the usual, the same could be applied to other people committing the same crime... it just usually isn't. So, yeah, they've made an example of him because of who he is, but making an example of someone by applying the maximum penalty is not unheard of nor wrong per se. Their motives in doing so are clearly politically oriented but again, afaik, they are merely pursuing him to the full extent of the law. ◊◊◊◊ that they chose to do so, but then he shouldn't have committed the crime(s).

Puts hard hat on and prepares for incoming....
Long past that point - it is already baked (permanently?) into the USA political milieu this won't change anyone's mind so that point is now an irrelevance.
 
Have you read Biden's statement?


He clearly states he did it because convicting Hunter was a miscarriage of justice.
There is a base principle in jurisprudence that you don't get involved in cases that involve those well known to you. By pardonning his son Joe Biden involved himself judicially in a case that he shouldn't have had (in US terms the power of pardon has become a judicial power reserved to the presidency. It is itself a perversion of judicial good practice, but that's another story). At the very least it was monumental bad judgement, especially given that Joe Biden during his career implemented most of the measures that made the initial bad (but perfectly within the law) judgement not just possible but probable.

He did after all write the law that made it effectively illegal to do anything if you were a known drug user.
 
It's my understanding that Hunter Biden pled guilty to things that shouldn't be a crime.
No he pled guilty to things that are explicitly crimes, just ones that usually get slaps on the wrist for first time offenders.

The judge thought differently and, as far as I am aware, the judge isn't a federalist society appointee who doesn't know their arse from their elbow when it comes to the law.
 
Irrelevant. Biden will be cast in the trashpile of history as a weak president. Not entirely his fault as Trump was running most of congress for the four years. But Hunter...soon forgotten and the 2028 Democrat winner will not name Hunter as ambassador to France.
 
Should say I think the whole federal presidential pardon system is a joke - as is demonstrated by how Biden has recently pardoned 3 turkeys. But it is what it is, an unconstrained and unilateral power of the presidency which has no limitations. Perhaps those that mind him pardoning his son should look at the power itself and see if it should be constrained?
Pardoning the Thanksgiving turkey is a longstanding tradition, FYI. I'm sure the UK doesn't have any whimsical political traditions. Whatever the other criticisms of the system, this is a pretty silly and ignorant one.
 
Biden will be cast in the trashpile of history as a weak president.

He made the US recover after Covid better than almost any other county on the planet. He got inflation under control, unlike most other countries, and the economy soared.

I think history will judge Joe Biden much better than his contemporaries have done.
 
No, he was wrong in so many ways to do so:

1) Appearances, in an era where the Dems are trying to differentiate themselves from the nazis on principles grounds, this makes too easy to pull the "they are no different" card. Remember, people like StaceyHS were saying that Biden shouldn't preemptively pardon those in T****y's sights for malicious prosecutions, and now Biden pardons his son for crimes the son committed.

2) Jurisprudence, Biden is too close to the case for thos decision to be seen as anything other than a bent favour for his son. Just as you shouldn't sit on the jury for a case involving a loved one, Biden shouldn't have issued the pardon. Also, the case wasn't finished, sentencing still had to happen.

3) Legacy. This abuse of power will be Biden's legacy, mark my words.

4) Precedent. While Biden not pardoning Hunter wouldn't stop any future nazi, including T****y, from doing something similar, the fact that he did it is great cover for them
 
I'm sure the UK doesn't have any whimsical political traditions.
220px-King_Charles_III_%28July_2023%29.jpg
 
He made the US recover after Covid better than almost any other county on the planet. He got inflation under control, unlike most other countries, and the economy soared.

I think history will judge Joe Biden much better than his contemporaries have done.
Otherwise yes, but he had the tools to stop Trump. He did not.
 
No, he was wrong in so many ways to do so:

1) Appearances, in an era where the Dems are trying to differentiate themselves from the nazis on principles grounds, this makes too easy to pull the "they are no different" card. Remember, people like StaceyHS were saying that Biden shouldn't preemptively pardon those in T****y's sights for malicious prosecutions, and now Biden pardons his son for crimes the son committed.

2) Jurisprudence, Biden is too close to the case for thos decision to be seen as anything other than a bent favour for his son. Just as you shouldn't sit on the jury for a case involving a loved one, Biden shouldn't have issued the pardon. Also, the case wasn't finished, sentencing still had to happen.

3) Legacy.
This abuse of power will be Biden's legacy, mark my words.

4) Precedent. While Biden not pardoning Hunter wouldn't stop any future nazi, including T****y, from doing something similar, the fact that he did it is great cover for them
Which abuse of power?
 
Yes what Biden did seems perfectly legal and yes you can't blame a father for doing it, but there's obviously a conflict of interest here and power should not be able to be wielded when there's such a conflict of interest. Biden did the right thing initially by recusing himself from any involvement.
First, he didn't actually recuse himself, he merely claimed that he wouldn't pardon Hunter. And we see now how much that promise was worth.

But it's naive to think he did this out of any fatherly concern. Hunter was the bag man for bribery schemes that Joe participated in. He's the "big guy". By pardoning Hunter (not just for the gun charge but for all federal crimes), that helps protect Joe himself from investigations into these bribes.
 
Is it wrong, yes.

Do I care, no.

I really just don't have enough spoons to care about something like this. I have exhausted my ability to care. Call it a Tu Quoque, but I just cannot get that excited about the occasional turd in the Democratic punchbowl while the Republican party is hosing everything and everyone down with pressurized diarrhea cannons.
 
But it's naive to think he did this out of any fatherly concern. Hunter was the bag man for bribery schemes that Joe participated in. He's the "big guy". By pardoning Hunter (not just for the gun charge but for all federal crimes), that helps protect Joe himself from investigations into these bribes.
Yes, yes, and a pizza parlor dungeon full of brain-harvesting machines.
 
First, he didn't actually recuse himself, he merely claimed that he wouldn't pardon Hunter. And we see now how much that promise was worth.

But it's naive to think he did this out of any fatherly concern. Hunter was the bag man for bribery schemes that Joe participated in. He's the "big guy". By pardoning Hunter (not just for the gun charge but for all federal crimes), that helps protect Joe himself from investigations into these bribes.
Please don't make me spit up my breakfast. That's full on Maggat nonsense, as clearly evident by the joke of an investigation that wasted millions grasping at straws put up by Russian stooges.
And note that I personally think it was wrong to go back on his word because I agree that 'circumstances didn't change'
But your nonsense does expose an other reason besides the obvious (loyalty to family): He could be worried that Trump will follow through on his promise to persecute his 'enemies'--which would include Biden and his family. He could be concerned about even more outrageous attacks. If he leaves the country, that will be the reason.

Which is why I was only half joking when I suggested he act first, use his full presidential immunity to strike hard at Trump before this explicit threat to democracy unravels. The biggest problem the Democrats have had is rolling over to be the 'nice guy' while the GOP has been saying all along "screw it--we won't even pretend to give a damn about the Constitution or fairness"
You can only fith fire with fire, and bullies only understand strength. Instead of holding up the pretense of principles, get down in the dirt with them. It is not like they would be endorsing authoritarian tactics--it would be a *reaction* to authoritarian tactics being used by the other side.
 
This conversation is silly. Of course, he pardoned his son and yes, he lied when he said he wouldn't, even if he was mostly lying to himself. Regarding the OP, what do you think the reason is? Stupid question. Probably one of the least controversial high-profile end of term presidential pardons ever.

That being said, Hunter was guilty of criming and should have prosecuted, it wasn't strictly political but the DOJ sort of backed themselves into a corner with the original sweetheart deal they came up with. Nobody remembers but Hunter's lawyers originally thought that the deal would grant him immunity for crimes he hadn't even been accused of yet. It was only when the Judge started asking questions that anyone, apparently including the prosecutors, noticed that.

ETA: We clearly need some sort of amendment to restrict the pardon power. At the very least we need to make it clear a president can't pardon himself. Then I'd suggest giving the senate or the house or both the ability to overrule a pardon or possibly create some sort of advisor board that needs to recommend pardons first. Maybe make it illegal for a president to pardon anyone in the last year of his term?
 
I agree with Zig, there is ample evidence to suggest that Biden was in on or at least new about Hunter's get rich quick schemes trading on Dad's name. I don't think there's enough to convict but seriously, it was clearly something Hunter was doing and who else is the Big Guy? On the other hand, its the sort of thing that's common in American politics and probably not actually illegal. Or maybe a Ukrainian energy company really just thought Hunter was the perfect person for their board and worth the millions they paid him.

None of that is why hunter was pardoned though; Hunter was Pardoned because his dad didn't want him to go to jail.
 
If H Biden was taking bribes for his father, why were the charges brought to court only drugs/gun charges?

Remember, ahhell, the children of the rich have always been put on boards. Biden wasn't special in that regard.
 
If H Biden was taking bribes for his father, why were the charges brought to court only drugs/gun charges?
Because investigating that in depth was radioactive.
Remember, ahhell, the children of the rich have always been put on boards. Biden wasn't special in that regard.
I don't think the number of foreign board appointments he had was at all usual. But if you want to argue that bribery among the elite is common, well, I won't dispute that.
 
Boardmembers aren't chosen by merit or skill, boards don't need those. They only exist to give the young of the rich something to pretend to be getting money from, essentially fully legal money laundering.
 
They don’t need to be pardoned, they don’t exist. It’s penny-ante ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊, it never should’ve been charged.
That is a bold claim to make. Hunter Biden was the first drug addict to illegally buy or possess a firearm?
 
If H Biden was taking bribes for his father, why were the charges brought to court only drugs/gun charges?

Remember, ahhell, the children of the rich have always been put on boards. Biden wasn't special in that regard.
Yep, like I said, probably totally legal. Still gross. That question is, well silly. Like asking if Capone were actually a gangster, why was he only charged with tax evasion.

All I'm saying is, it's not some crazy conspiracy theory. H Biden was clearly trading on his father's name. The only question is if J. Biden new it and personally profited. His dementia would have to go back very far if he didn't realize it though. I'd be shocked if any money actually went into J. Biden's bank accounts on account of it though.

ETA: It may or may not be notable that the Pardon is for any crimes Hunter committed or may have committed between 2014-2024. I have no idea if pardons are commonly so broad, I thought that they typically just pardon folks for specific crimes. But, I don't usually pay that much attention to such things.
 

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