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Hunter Biden Gun Trial

Ranb

Penultimate Amazing
Ranb
Joined
Jul 25, 2003
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Federal judge refuses to postpone Hunter Biden’s June 3 trial in gun case
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/14/politics/hunter-biden-no-trial-delay/index.html
Hunter Biden’s lawyer Abbe Lowell argued the defense team would not be able to accomplish all that needs to be done in under three weeks. Lowell also pointed to the work needed to prepare for his client’s other trial set for late June in California, where he is facing a federal tax indictment.

“It cannot be done in two weeks, it just cannot,” Lowell said, adding later, “I am pleading with your honor” to allow for more time.

Noreika responded: “You said you were available in June.”

“I don’t need to be your scheduling secretary,” Noreika said, telling Lowell to work out new filing deadlines with the prosecution ahead of the trial date.

Prosecutors claim Hunter Biden illegally purchased and possessed a revolver in 2018, which violated federal law because he was using illicit drugs at the time. He has pleaded not guilty to all three felony counts.
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Perhaps this trial will help change the attitude towards prosecuting those who lie to buy guns from FFL's?

Ranb


Moved from USA Politics to Trials and Errors.
Posted By: zooterkin
 
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It's only a crime when Democrats do it.

Given that Hunter bought the gun to shoot himself, I'm surprised that right-wingers make such a fuss about it.
 
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Poor Hunter. Prosecuted for no other reason than that he's the president's son. Such an unfortunate burden. :rolleyes:

(His lawyer actually had the gall to make that argument.)
Hunter Biden’s attorney, Abbe Lowell, said in a statement that “based on the facts and the law, if Hunter’s last name was anything other than Biden, the charges in Delaware, and now California, would not have been brought.”
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It's not gall, it's a fact: no one gets charged under this law as a standalone offense.

And Selective Prosecution is a legitimate defense argument.
 
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Ranb said:
Federal judge refuses to postpone Hunter Biden’s June 3 trial in gun case
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/14/politics/hunter-biden-no-trial-delay/index.html

Perhaps this trial will help change the attitude towards prosecuting those who lie to buy guns from FFL's?

Ranb
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Please that won't happen, I mean if it did they would have charged the guy who straw purchased the gun for Kyle Rittenhouse. It is only ever going to be politically motivated charges that get pressed.
 
https://www.ncja.org/crimeandjusticenews/few-prosecutions-for-lying-on-atf-gun-purchase-form
Lying on the form is a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison. For being a user of unlawful drugs in possession of a firearm, the punishment is up to five years. The odds of being charged for lying on the form are virtually nonexistent. In the 2019 fiscal year, when Hunter Biden purchased his gun, federal prosecutors received 478 referrals for lying on Form 4473 — and filed just 298 cases.
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A 1990 Justice Department study noted how difficult it was to bring cases against people who falsely answer questions on the form, especially because there is no paper trail for drug abusers like there is for felons.
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https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/ipotfipf-fs.pdf

It is never too late to decide to enforce the laws, even gun control laws.
 
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Puppycow said:
It isn't a standalone offense. He is charged with 9 different crimes.
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the gun case has no connection to the tax case.

He’s charged in the Delaware case with two counts of making false statements, first for checking a box falsely saying he was not addicted to drugs and second for giving it to the shop for its federally required records. A third count alleges he possessed the gun for about 11 days despite knowing he was a drug user.
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So at most 3 counts, 2 of which are duplicative and both constitute selective prosecution.
And the 3rd is one that probably half of all people on painkillers are guilty of.

I have no problem with throwing the book at Hunter - politicians and their families are fair game.
But it's ridiculous that after years of investigation this is supposed to an offence we should care about.
 
Ranb said:
https://www.ncja.org/crimeandjusticenews/few-prosecutions-for-lying-on-atf-gun-purchase-form

Lying on the form is a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison. For being a user of unlawful drugs in possession of a firearm, the punishment is up to five years. The odds of being charged for lying on the form are virtually nonexistent. In the 2019 fiscal year, when Hunter Biden purchased his gun, federal prosecutors received 478 referrals for lying on Form 4473 — and filed just 298 cases.
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https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/ipotfipf-fs.pdf

It is never too late to decide to enforce the laws, even gun control laws.
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I must be missing something. The article claims that the odds of being charged are virtually nonexistent... but then goes on to tell us that over 60% of the referrals proceeded to cases? Perhaps they intended to say that the odds of being found guilty are very low, and that only a very tiny number of those 60% actually resulted in a guilty finding?
 
My post was a response to the claim, "no one gets charged under this law as a standalone offense". Some people are being charged.
 
Also, as far as being "difficult to prosecute" because "there is no paper trail for drug abusers", that's because most drug abusers don't write a book about their drug abuse.

I'm guessing that Exhibit 1 for the prosecution will be Hunter's book.
 
Hunter Biden tries again to delay gun trial two weeks before start date
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/20/politics/hunter-biden-gun-trial/index.html
Hunter Biden is once again trying to delay his fast-approaching trial on felony gun charges, which is scheduled to begin in two weeks.

The president’s son has already tried – and failed – to postpone the proceedings, which are expected to kick off June 3 at the federal courthouse in Wilmington, Delaware.

His lawyers on Monday asked a federal appeals court to rehear his bid to throw out the indictment. A three-judge panel unanimously rejected his appeal earlier this month, but he’s now asking for the full 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals to review the case.

Biden’s legal team also asked the 3rd Circuit to pause any trial proceedings while it considers his new appeal petitions.

“There is no urgency in having an immediate trial of Robert Hunter Biden, but the district court is pressing forward with a June 3, 2024 trial and imposing all the pretrial burdens that come with that,” his lawyers wrote in the filing.
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Emily's Cat said:
I must be missing something. The article claims that the odds of being charged are virtually nonexistent... but then goes on to tell us that over 60% of the referrals proceeded to cases? Perhaps they intended to say that the odds of being found guilty are very low, and that only a very tiny number of those 60% actually resulted in a guilty finding?
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I assumed it meant that most of the situations where there are problems with gun application permits, there just aren't referrals done it all. (Maybe the police think "not important enough to prosecute" so they look the other way and don't even mention it to the District Attorney.)
 
i guess we'll find out the details in the trial, but to me it seems a little monstrous to go after what appears to be a recovered addict who was suicidal and bought a gun while they were using just for political purposes. but that's just me. maybe we do need to make an example out of him.
 
Jury selection stars today. ("Why are they doing it now???") I am so not interested in anything to do with this trial. I'd rather it have become an item at a different time so the news could still be reporting on The FPaCFDJT's conviction, with relish. I highly doubt any Repugnicans will give this the same treatment they gave the Trump trial.
 
Emily's Cat said:
I must be missing something. The article claims that the odds of being charged are virtually nonexistent... but then goes on to tell us that over 60% of the referrals proceeded to cases? Perhaps they intended to say that the odds of being found guilty are very low, and that only a very tiny number of those 60% actually resulted in a guilty finding?
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I think you'll find the number of people in the USA who would have to answer yes to the following question:

Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?

And also own at least one gun numbers in the 10's of millions within the USA. Given that alcohol is a depressant and the question states OR ADDICTED to, and that it includes marijuana. With, what 200 or 300 prosecuted a year? The odds of lying on that question and getting caught are almost astronomically tiny.

ETA: and yes thats how its actually worded.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4...awful user,or any other controlled substance?

ETA2: also for the lol's think about it. It doesn't give an exemption for a prescription. And technically caffeine is a stimulant, and god damned am I addicted to the stuff... **** ATF is gonna knock on my door any second now...
 
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https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/04/politics/takeaways-day-2-hunter-biden-federal-gun-trial/index.html
In opening statements Tuesday, prosecutor Derek Hines made clear that President Joe Biden’s son “isn’t charged with possessing drugs,” but rather because he allegedly lied on a federal background check form.

“Addiction may not be a choice,” Hines said, but it is a choice to illegally buy a gun.

Hines continued: “We’re here because of the defendant’s lies and choices. … No one is above the law. It doesn’t matter who you are or what your name is.”

Defense attorney Abbe Lowell repeatedly highlighted during his opening statement that prosecutors needed “to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Hunter knowingly violated the law.”

Lowell emphasized that Biden’s “state of mind” when he purchased the gun was instrumental in the case. He also tried to humanize his client, saying that he abused alcohol and drugs “like literally millions of people in this country” and was plagued by various “traumas,” including the 1972 car crash in Wilmington that killed his mother and gave him a brain injury when he was a child.
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Puppycow said:
I'm guessing that Exhibit 1 for the prosecution will be Hunter's book.
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Yep.

(Same article as above)

Takeaways from Day 2 of the Hunter Biden federal gun trial

Biden speaks – through his audiobook
The first hour of witness testimony was consumed by prosecutors playing several long passages of the audiobook Biden narrated for his 2021 memoir, “Beautiful Things.”
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Then there's the famous laptop:
Jury sees lurid texts and photos
Prosecutors also introduced a tranche of evidence that investigators obtained from Biden’s electronics, including his infamous laptop.
. . .

Biden’s laptop has been at the center of a yearslong political saga, with his team claiming it may have contained fake emails concocted by Russia, while many Republicans heralded it as ironclad proof that he and his father got rich from corrupt overseas deals.

Prosecutors used the laptop much more narrowly, to try and prove that Biden used drugs in 2018. It was still a major moment when prosecutors unveiled the physical laptop for all in the courtroom to see. The silver MacBook has been bandied about in right-wing media for years, and the public saw it for the very first time on Tuesday.
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Curious that the defense doesn't seem to be raising the idea that these are "fake emails concocted by Russia". Perhaps they will later.

Does anyone still doubt that this laptop is real? You would think the defense would object to it being introduced into evidence, if there were any doubt as to its authenticity.
 
Another day, more evidence.

Hunter Biden gun trial: Beau Biden’s widow Hallie Biden testifies about crack use

Hallie Biden, the widow of President Joe Biden’s late son Beau Biden, testified in federal court Thursday that she became a drug user after the president’s surviving son, Hunter Biden, introduced her to crack cocaine.

“It was a terrible experience that I went through and I’m embarrassed and I’m ashamed of that period of my life,” Hallie Biden said in Hunter Biden’s criminal gun trial in Delaware federal court, NBC News reported.

Hallie Biden was romantically involved with Hunter Biden after Beau Biden’s death from brain cancer in 2015. She and Hunter were together in October 2018, when he allegedly lied about his drug use to buy a Colt Cobra revolver.

Hunter Biden, 54, faces three counts connected to his purchase and possession of the gun despite his drug use.
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"She became a drug user after the president’s surviving son, Hunter Biden, introduced her to crack cocaine."
"Hallie Biden was romantically involved with Hunter Biden after Beau Biden’s death from brain cancer in 2015."

Not sure if it mentions this, but she is the mother of two children from her late husband, Beau. And he became "romantically involved" with her and "introduced her to crack cocaine".

Hallie Biden, who testified under a grant of immunity, said Thursday that she found the revolver in Hunter’s truck on Oct. 23, 2018, and threw it out behind a grocery store.

“I didn’t want him to hurt himself or my kids to find it and hurt themselves,” she testified.
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Well, he's not on trial for introducing his brother's widow and mother of two to crack cocaine, he's on trial for lying on a form, but I can't imagine those facts will make the jury think well of him.
 
If this is about lying about his drug use on the gun application, why is the laptop relevant?
 
Ranb said:
President says he would not pardon his son if convicted. https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/07/poli...hunter-federal-gun-trial-abc-intvu-ctm-digvid
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Honestly, sure the Reps would cry foul but most people would probably be fine with it. Clinton pardoned his brother for some drug charges, so why not Biden.
Donal said:
If this is about lying about his drug use on the gun application, why is the laptop relevant?
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From what I gather there is some evidence on it that he was a drug user at the time.

It's basically true that he was only charged on account of being Biden's son. From what I've seen, this is rarely charged but part of the problem is that his plea deal blew up because his lawyers and the DOJ didn't agree on what exactly the deal was.
 
As others have pointed out, this sort of offense is rarely prosecuted.

This make me curious to see if that might change moving forward.

Anyone got a lowdown on the range of possible sentences?
 
well how upset is the 2a crowd here? on one hand, a borderline unconstitutional law is applied in a draconian manner. on the other, a biden got in trouble
 
crescent said:
As others have pointed out, this sort of offense is rarely prosecuted.

This make me curious to see if that might change moving forward.

Anyone got a lowdown on the range of possible sentences?
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I've heard the max is on the order of 25 years in prison and 750K fine. Seems unlikely he'll get the max and I have no idea what the minimum is.
 
dirtywick said:
well how upset is the 2a crowd here? on one hand, a borderline unconstitutional law is applied in a draconian manner. on the other, a biden got in trouble
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Failure to enforce existing laws is often cited by anti-gun control people was a reason to not pass more gun control laws. Like "let's not pass new laws until we at least start enforcing the ones we already have", with presenting false information on background checks at the top of the list.

But I am guessing that this is mostly a one-off prosecution. Hunter Biden is high profile and the information presented in the case was not in dispute. They kinda had to prosecute him.

But I don't think that will change the general non-prosecution of falsified background check information overall. But I'm not super confident in my judgement there, I could be wrong.
 
crescent said:
Failure to enforce existing laws is often cited by anti-gun control people was a reason to not pass more gun control laws. Like "let's not pass new laws until we at least start enforcing the ones we already have", with presenting false information on background checks at the top of the list.

But I am guessing that this is mostly a one-off prosecution. Hunter Biden is high profile and the information presented in the case was not in dispute. They kinda had to prosecute him. But I don't think that will change the general non-prosecution of falsified background check information overall. But I'm not super confident in my judgement there, I could be wrong.
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Mostly they had to because his plea deal fell apart more or less at the last minute before the statute of limitations ran out and he's famous. Biden's DOJ couldn't exactly not prosecute the president's son when its pretty obvious he was guilty of the crime in questions. Pretty much the only time in the US justice system when being rich and famous hurts you.
 
Well of course, this is far worse than what von Schitzinpantz was convicted of. Both Hunter AND Joe Biden should get 25 years, while von Schitzinpantz should go free and be elected! :rolleyes:
 
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dirtywick said:
well how upset is the 2a crowd here? on one hand, a borderline unconstitutional law is applied in a draconian manner. on the other, a biden got in trouble
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Which 2nd Amendment people on this forum have expressed an interest in protecting the rights of drug addicts to own firearms and violate the law when buying them?

I am one of those who wants to see people like Biden pay for their crimes.

I recall discussing drugs and guns with people when state level marijuana laws were being relaxed some years ago. Some of my facebook friends were warning others that form 4473 was a trap waiting to ensnare them. I responded that they needed to choose between their civil rights or drugs. It was not a popular stance.
 
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