• Due to ongoing issues caused by Search, it has been temporarily disabled
  • Please excuse the mess, we're moving the furniture and restructuring the forum categories

How is Israel Going to Retaliate Against Hamas? Part 3

fascinating.
Yak insisted over and over that he doesn't trust Netanyahu and wants him gone, but when presented with evidence of obvious corruption and lies in the service of prolonging the fight and preventing a hostage deal, his first instinct is to shoot the messenger instead of further investigation.
If he really was vary of Netanyahu, he would have been the one to post this information - it's hardly new.
Looks like he's a Bibi fanboy after all.
 
If I were Yoav Gallant, my first action at this point would be to board a flight to London. (Or Toronto).
Then, immediately after arrival, go to the nearest Police station and turn myself in.
Put on view to TheWorld™ the insanity of this entire situation vis a vis ICC.
 
An interesting quote from Netanyahu on arrest by Shin Bet,
but what's to be done if you are approached by masked men in the dead of night, they put you in detention, they isolate you, they handcuff you, they threaten you with life imprisonment if you don't give them what they want? A man can break, he can confess to murdering Arlozorov.
Click to expand...
this is in reference to an aide arrested and accused of leaking. If the Prime Minister of Israel believes that an Israeli Jewish PM's aide can be assumed to have been interrogated so forcefully by Shin Bet that a confession can not be believed, then how can any confessions by Palestinians be accepted.
www.israelnationalnews.com

Netanyahu: 'Feldstein is a patriot, would never endanger national security'

Prime Minister Netanyahu has issued a lengthy denunciation of the charges against Eli Feldstein.
www.israelnationalnews.com www.israelnationalnews.com

Balanced against this is that Jews are no longer to be subject to administrative detention, the 'extra-judicial' detention that most Palestinians are subject to, enforced by the IDF or Shin Bet. This further increases the religious apartheid occuring in Israel and the occupied territories.
Katz thanked the rabbi and said that administrative detention is an illegal tool, especially since it is used only against a part of the population, that is already persecuted and being sanctioned....In a reality where Jews in Judea and Samaria are subject to severe Palestinian threats of terror, with the support and backing of the Iranian axis of evil that is working to establish an eastern terror front against the State of Israel, and unjustified international sanctions are being taken against Jews and Jewish towns and organizations – it is unacceptable for the State of Israel to take such a severe step against its residents.
Click to expand...
www.israelnationalnews.com

Samaria rabbi offers alternative to administrative detention

Rabbi Elyakim Levanon, Rabbi of Samaria, spoke with the Minister of Defense after he announced the cessation of using administrative detention and suggested an alternative.
www.israelnationalnews.com www.israelnationalnews.com
Katz is the Israeli Defence Minister, intriguing that he thinks it is an illegal process when used against Jews, but not when used against non-Jews.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
fascinating.
Yak insisted over and over that he doesn't trust Netanyahu and wants him gone, but when presented with evidence of obvious corruption and lies in the service of prolonging the fight and preventing a hostage deal, his first instinct is to shoot the messenger instead of further investigation.
If he really was vary of Netanyahu, he would have been the one to post this information - it's hardly new.
Looks like he's a Bibi fanboy after all.
Click to expand...
1. Don't make this personal. You keep saying that, remember?
2. Your post contained lies and inaccuracies. That you don't want this pointed out is no concern of mine.
3. Do, please, quote the part of my post that stated I don't want any further investigation. I know you won't, because, you can't, because I didn't say that. You're just deflecting attention from the faults in your own post.
4. Kindly state, for the record, which side you think I'm on.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
fascinating.
Yak insisted over and over that he doesn't trust Netanyahu and wants him gone, but when presented with evidence of obvious corruption and lies in the service of prolonging the fight and preventing a hostage deal, his first instinct is to shoot the messenger instead of further investigation.
If he really was vary of Netanyahu, he would have been the one to post this information - it's hardly new.
Looks like he's a Bibi fanboy after all.
Click to expand...
Cosmic Yak said:
End of the day, who is this supposed to shock?
Has anyone here painted Netanyahu as perfect and saintly? Has anyone here defended each and every Israeli action? I haven't, that's for sure. Who are you thinking of here?

Again, who are you talking to? Actual people on this forum, or just the voices in your head?
Click to expand...
I've highlighted two parts of this exchange, to show TGZ's continued dishonesty in his portrayal of my position here.
 
It would be quite appropriate to place several posters here into the category of AGREEING with the Ayatollah of Iran, Khameni regarding their opinion of what should happen with the Prime Minister of Israel.
www.jpost.com

Khamenei says Israeli leaders must be 'sentenced to death,' arrest warrants 'not enough'

His remarks came after the ICC issued arrest warrants on Thursday for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
www.jpost.com www.jpost.com

He has X'd that "All the political and military leaders of the criminal Zionist terrorist gang must be prosecuted."

Meahwhile, Israel is doing quite fine work in Gaza and Lebanon, with Abd al-Rahman Muhammad Zakout, who infiltrated Israeli territory and participated in the October 7 massacre, being targeted and eliminated in an Israeli airstrike. Good riddance.

Over the course of Sunday and Monday, the IAF struck dozens of Hezbollah positions in both southern and central Lebanon, including command centers, weapons storage facilities, and Hezbollah launchers that have been firing rockets toward the Haifa Bay and central Israel areas.​

 
webfusion said:
Let's be clear.
Israel did not, and is not, engaged in "mass killings" while engaged in pursuit of HAMAS and Hezbollah cadres.
Click to expand...
I am curious: how many killings are needed for „mass killings“ to have taken place? And how many Palestinians do you think have been killed? What is the ratio of civilian dead per Hamas dead?
 
webfusion said:
steenkh, perhaps best to direct your question at those who claim there has already been a genocide, and get them to clarify the things you're looking for.
www.jpost.com

'Genocide-free cola,' Cola Gaza, to fund Gaza hospital and boycott

500,000 cans of 'Cola Gaza' have been sold online and through stores in the UK.
www.jpost.com www.jpost.com
Click to expand...
I think he's asking you to have the courage to say how many dead civilians would be too many, in your mind. As in your opinion.

webfusion said:
(n.b. - HAMAS dead are not numbers being released, so why ask about it?)
Click to expand...
Doesn't Israel always claim to know exactly who they are striking?
 
The revelation of the Netanyahu office faking and leaking top secret information to justify its policies is a 1:1 with the fake "WMDs are in Iraq" that cost trillions and dollars and a million lives.
Every Israeli and everyone supporting Israel should be outraged at having been manipulated in this way from the start.
 
Really weird that no here is talking about the ceasefire deal between Lebanon and Israel:
www.bbc.com

Israel and Hezbollah 'close to Lebanon ceasefire deal'

Israel's cabinet will meet on Tuesday to discuss a possible deal, as the US cautions, "we're not done yet".
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

This comes after Israel has achieved none of its objectives beyond bombing residential areas in Beirut and deliberately killing journalists. Hezbollah is still perfectly capable of sending missiles deep into Israel, as the latest attack demonstrated.

Let's see if the far-right allies of Netanyahu will let him stop a fight Israel cannot win, or if they will insist that more IDF fighters must die pointlessly.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Really weird that no here is talking about the ceasefire deal between Lebanon and Israel:
www.bbc.com

Israel and Hezbollah 'close to Lebanon ceasefire deal'

Israel's cabinet will meet on Tuesday to discuss a possible deal, as the US cautions, "we're not done yet".
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

This comes after Israel has achieved none of its objectives beyond bombing residential areas in Beirut and deliberately killing journalists. Hezbollah is still perfectly capable of sending missiles deep into Israel, as the latest attack demonstrated.

Let's see if the far-right allies of Netanyahu will let him stop a fight Israel cannot win, or if they will insist that more IDF fighters must die pointlessly.
Click to expand...
What tripe you post. Hezbollah have been raining rockets on northern Israel for a long time before they retaliated. Your support of terrorists is dislgusring.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
The revelation of the Netanyahu office faking and leaking top secret information to justify its policies is a 1:1 with the fake "WMDs are in Iraq" that cost trillions and dollars and a million lives.
Every Israeli and everyone supporting Israel should be outraged at having been manipulated in this way from the start.
Click to expand...
Was the entire history of this conflict, current and historical, based on this one- as yet unproven- incident of manipulation?
If not, your comparison with the WMD fiasco is not apt, and your attempt to whip up outrage just as manipulative as some of Bibi's officals are alleged to be.
 
webfusion said:
steenkh, perhaps best to direct your question at those who claim there has already been a genocide, and get them to clarify the things you're looking for.
Click to expand...
Why? You were the one who said - and I quote: “Let's be clear. Israel did not, and is not, engaged in "mass killings" while engaged in pursuit of HAMAS and Hezbollah cadres.”
Can’t you tell me on what basis you make this claim by giving me your own reply to these simple questions?

webfusion said:
(n.b. - HAMAS dead are not numbers being released, so why ask about it?)
Click to expand...
I have the impression from this thread that the IDF does have a guideline as to how many dead civilians they accept per killed Hamas fighter. Maybe these are not public, but perhaps you could tell how many you would think is morally acceptable?
 
no thoughts on the ceasefire deal that Israel has agreed to?


my $0.02: this is going to cost Netanyahu politically, and because of that won't last. To mollify the far-right, he will come up with an excuse to keep bombing targets in Lebanon.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
Was the entire history of this conflict, current and historical, based on this one- as yet unproven- incident of manipulation?
If not, your comparison with the WMD fiasco is not apt, and your attempt to whip up outrage just as manipulative as some of Bibi's officals are alleged to be.
Click to expand...

you don't feel manipulated at all?
 
Masskillings is like a million, or more.
There, now you have a number. FWIW, in your hypothetical scenario.

Ceasefire in effect with Lebanon for 60-days. (IDF will remain at the ready and continue 'freedom of action in enforcing it')
And now HAMAS is seeking their own ceasefire and return of prisoners. (reports say the Turks are being approached quietly to intercede on Israel's behalf to work towards that).
 
The Great Zaganza said:
If Israel leaves we might get even more evidence of their use of outlawed munitions like white phosphorous.
Click to expand...
It's not outlawed. IDF was engaged in combat operations against Hezbollah terrorists in that area.

Medical teams treated nine people from the towns of Dhayra, Yarine and Marwahin who were suffering from shortness of breath and coughing. They were OK after a few hours.

"We were not able to see even our own hands due to the heavy white smoke..."

Oh, the horror!
 
webfusion said:
Masskillings is like a million, or more.
Click to expand...
Very interesting. It certainly explains why some people don’t think a mere 40,000+ killings is not „mass killings“. There is a long way to go before the Israelis do something that is not morally acceptable.
Is this valid for other incidents, like the Rwandan genocide where only a little more than half a million people were murdered?
 
webfusion said:
It's not outlawed. IDF was engaged in combat operations against Hezbollah terrorists in that area.

Medical teams treated nine people from the towns of Dhayra, Yarine and Marwahin who were suffering from shortness of breath and coughing. They were OK after a few hours.

"We were not able to see even our own hands due to the heavy white smoke..."

Oh, the horror!
Click to expand...
A good discussion of White Phosphorus is here.
www.lawfaremedia.org

The Jus in Bello of White Phosphorus: Getting the Law Correct

Focusing on the weapon, and not how it is being used, muddies the law and facts surrounding the circumstances in which a war crime may have occurred.
www.lawfaremedia.org www.lawfaremedia.org
It is the intent not the weapon that is theissue.
 
So far team Israel has no red lines. Is there really nothing Israel could do that would make you condemn them for doing it?
 
The State of Israel has acted with impressive and far-reaching actions over the past year, and I see no reasons to condemn "them" for doing what needed to be done. Nothing remotely resembling a red line was approached, much less crossed, or planned on crossing, or headed towards it at all.

HAMAS is about to sue for a ceasefire, and lay down.
News that Hezbollah had decided to stop fighting was met with gloom by many Gazans, who felt abandoned and forgotten.
 
steenkh said:
Very interesting. It certainly explains why some people don’t think a mere 40,000+ killings is not „mass killings“. There is a long way to go before the Israelis do something that is not morally acceptable.
Is this valid for other incidents, like the Rwandan genocide where only a little more than half a million people were murdered?
Click to expand...
40,000 is a mere 2% of the population. Injuries were probably at least double that though, so the total casualties could be over 6%.

According to Amnesty International these numbers qualify as 'mass killings'. An example:-
On 9 January 2024, just before 11pm, an Israeli strike hit the two top floors of the Nofal family five-storey building located in Tal Al-Sultan...

The attack killed 18 civilians, including 10 children, four men, and four women. At least eight others were wounded. Sixteen of those who were killed were on the fourth and fifth floors of the Nofal family homes. The other two – a man and a child – were from the neighbouring Awadallah family, whose zinc-built home collapsed under the debris of the Nofal house.

Nidal Nofal, 47, a nurse who lives on the ground floor, told Amnesty International that relatives from Khan Younis were staying with them following Israeli military instructions to leave for Rafah:

“The map [Israeli forces] sent specifically mentioned Tal Al-Sultan as one of the safe neighborhoods. Minutes before 11pm, my son shouted that he had heard a strike… once I opened the door and looked outside, I saw shards of glass flying all over the place.”

Amnesty International’s weapons experts examined photos of fragments of ordnance recovered from the rubble and identified it as a GBU-39 Small Diameter Bomb, a precision guided weapon with a smaller warhead, explaining the targeted damage to the top floors specifically. It is made in the US by Boeing.

As with the other attacks, Israeli authorities have not given a reason for this strike. Amnesty International’s research, including a review of a list of the names of all those staying on the targeted floors, and those killed and wounded in the attack, did not find any indication that any of those staying in the building were legitimate military targets, rendering it a likely direct attack on civilians and civilian objects, or possibly an indiscriminate attack resulting from failing to take all feasible precautions to avoid killing or injuring civilians, including by ensuring that anyone who was targeted was a fighter, not a civilian.
Click to expand...
No indication that anyone in the building was a 'legitimate military target'. But hey, mistakes happen. They were told to get out of the area for good reason - so the IDF could bomb it with impunity. Those Hamas rats must be hiding somewhere, so just bomb everything in sight and you're bound to get them eventually. Except that strategy doesn't seem to have worked. Obviously they didn't bomb enough houses...
 
Some of the most important historic sites of the establishment of the State of Israel, visited by school classes regularly, are fake villages set up as human shields during the British Rule that existed solely to cover for illegal and ammunition manufactory underground to fight the occupiers.
For example:
en.wikipedia.org

Ayalon Institute - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

It is a feature of Israeli cognitive dissonance that the exact same thing that is being praised as true heroism on their side is vilified as pure evil when anyone not Israeli does it.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Some of the most important historic sites of the establishment of the State of Israel, visited by school classes regularly, are fake villages set up as human shields during the British Rule that existed solely to cover for illegal and ammunition manufactory underground to fight the occupiers.
For example:
en.wikipedia.org

Ayalon Institute - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

It is a feature of Israeli cognitive dissonance that the exact same thing that is being praised as true heroism on their side is vilified as pure evil when anyone not Israeli does it.
Click to expand...
Not a fake village, and not used as a human shield. Did you actually read your link?
It is an interesting factor in your own cognitive dissonance that you condemn the Israeli use of concealed military facilities, whilst accepting- or even approving of- Hamas doing the same thing.
By the way, did the early Zionists divert aid money to build this ammunition factory?
 
HAMAS is about to implement an Egyptian-proposal of prisoner-exchanges.
While I'm not privvy to details, my inclination is to figure this deal will include several thousands of Palestinian prisoners, and probably a dozen or so live captives in Gaza, and lots of Israeli cadavers.
Honestly, if the deal isn't going to include the missing body parts of Hadar Goldin and Oren Shaul, then it's a bad deal.

Meanwhile, to nobody's surprise, Hezbollah already is violating their ceasefire agreement.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
How about you actually read the posts of those criticising Hamas and Hezbollah? You might then avoid this inaccurate hyperbole.
Click to expand...
That's just a commentary on what's happening, not a red line. The former is generally downplayed or excused because of circumstances. The latter is a standard you expect your team to play by.

For example:

"I would condemn Israel if they used mass starvation as a weapon of war."

"I would condemn Israel if they knowingly targeted civilian facilities such as hospitals."

"I would condemn Israel if they undertook ethnic cleansing."

Does anyone on team Israel subscribe to any of those? Or are they all acceptable for those on team Israel? If so, are they acceptable when your enemies try to do them to Israelis?

Whose team is God cheering on? Or are all sides going to burn in Hell for eternity?
 
IVOR, what are you actually whining about?

You want somebody to say --
"I would condemn Israel if they knowingly targeted civilian facilities such as hospitals."

IDF is knowingly targeting terrorists who have abused and infiltrated the 'sacrosanct' facilities of mosques, schools, aid zones, hospitals, and other civilian infrastructures.

Take a look at this photo --

It shows the Israeli reaction to HAMAS constructing tunnels in Gaza, amid civilians.
I am NOT condemning Israel for blowing up the whole rats' nest.

I subscribe to winning this war.
The devil's in the details.
 
webfusion said:
IVOR, what are you actually whining about?

You want somebody to say --
"I would condemn Israel if they knowingly targeted civilian facilities such as hospitals."

IDF is knowingly targeting terrorists who have abused and infiltrated the 'sacrosanct' facilities of mosques, schools, aid zones, hospitals, and other civilian infrastructures.

Take a look at this photo --

It shows the Israeli reaction to HAMAS constructing tunnels in Gaza, amid civilians.
I am NOT condemning Israel for blowing up the whole rats' nest.

I subscribe to winning this war.
The devil's in the details.
Click to expand...
Do you subscribe to the other examples I gave?

"I would condemn Israel if they used mass starvation as a weapon of war."

"I would condemn Israel if they undertook ethnic cleansing."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom