How does the current financial crisis affect the Challenge funds?

[MattC]

I'm also getting rather annoyed, as I am sure others are, of repeatedly answering your questions time and time again, Mr. Koenig.

Rule #1 of the challenge application you signed quite clearly states that you will obtain one million dollars in the event of you winning the challenge. I fail to see why you have any further questions upon this matter.

~ MattC

 

[shadron]

I have received no records yet. OK?

I was told that TODAY would be the day they posted something current on the JREF Forum to show that they still had the money.
I don't see it?

If you are referring to my posting #15 as being where "you were told...", then go read it again. It says, " I guess you'll have to wait until Thursday + smail-mail + website update time for the next". That is assuming that GS releases its accountings on a monthly basis, which I don't know for a fact. I also don't know the length of the above-mentioned snail-mail interval nor of the website update time. So you're on your own.

Besides, I'm certainly no content-expert around here. I only know a little bit about a lot of things, which may or may not be relevant to you. Your judgement needs to fill the gap here. If you want to hold me responsible for no new statement today, why then, go right ahead. I'll welcome it.

 

[shadron]

I will take your advice and grab some Sailor Jerry's Rum!!!!!
.... And Dream of Treasure here in the Florida Sunshine

BTW ...I have a protocol. I always have.
How did anyone miss it? Perhaps no one is actually reading what I've written?

The protocol in question is one which you and JREF can agree upon as the basis for a contract specifying the test. Among its characteristics will be iron-clad pass/fail decision points in plain evidence requiring no judgements be made by observers, and adjusted so that false-positive errors will have vanishingly small probabilities. Any old protocol (namely one not agreed to by JREF) won't get you where you want to go. The meeting of the minds (the essence of any contract) must be pursued in good faith, and it doesn't sound to me as if that is happening.

This topic should be in the proper thread, not here.

I think that most have spent so much time on the "bashing" that they've missed what has been said.

Ummmmm... You don't seem to be much abashed.

 

[Azrael 5]

I don't see the problem here.You sign a contract that states you win a million dollars....then you win a million dollars.End of subject.

But as Guerilla magic stated,you have zero chance of winning anyway so don't worry about it.

 

[The Professor]

I'm also getting rather annoyed, as I am sure others are, of repeatedly answering your questions time and time again, Mr. Koenig.

Rule #1 of the challenge application you signed quite clearly states that you will obtain one million dollars in the event of you winning the challenge. I fail to see why you have any further questions upon this matter.

~ MattC

Please turn on CNN or try to get out a little more.
Do you have a 401K? What percentage have you lost?
Anyone can write a contract for any sum, but if the market crashes and they don't have it, then where is the cash coming from.
Just tell me Carson Estate will pick up the difference and I will be happy

 

[The Professor]

If you are referring to my posting #15 as being where "you were told...", then go read it again. It says, " I guess you'll have to wait until Thursday + smail-mail + website update time for the next". That is assuming that GS releases its accountings on a monthly basis, which I don't know for a fact. I also don't know the length of the above-mentioned snail-mail interval nor of the website update time. So you're on your own.

Besides, I'm certainly no content-expert around here. I only know a little bit about a lot of things, which may or may not be relevant to you. Your judgement needs to fill the gap here. If you want to hold me responsible for no new statement today, why then, go right ahead. I'll welcome it.

Please forgive me. I thought that you knew what you were talking about. Silly me!

 

[jenski]

I have received no records yet. OK?

I was told that TODAY would be the day they posted something current on the JREF Forum to show that they still had the money.
I don't see it?

So you haven't actually requested them. Is this what you'd generally refer to as 'blowing smoke?'

 

[MattC]

Please turn on CNN or try to get out a little more.
Do you have a 401K? What percentage have you lost?
Anyone can write a contract for any sum, but if the market crashes and they don't have it, then where is the cash coming from.
Just tell me Carson Estate will pick up the difference and I will be happy

Please comprehend the terms and meaning of a contract, preferably before you sign it.

I again bid you to read the first rule of the application you signed and had notarized. I will again post it here purely to give you some brief idea:

I, James Randi, through the JREF, will pay US$1,000,000 [One Million Dollars/US] to any person who can demonstrate any psychic, supernatural or paranormal ability under satisfactory observing conditions. Such demonstration must take place under the following rules and limitations:

This is a legally binding contract between two parties. It cannot be broken under grounds of "the market sucks so sorry". Whatever I may have lost is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand, unless you really think I have some stake in paying this million out to you.

It seems more and more that you're willingly refusing to consider answers provided in light of maintaining this fantasy world you live in. That's your prerogative, not mine, but I will not have you lambasting me in such a poor fashion when you so clearly have not bothered to read a damn thing.

Just for you, I'll helpfully repost my answer to your question of "where is the cash coming from" simply because I like you a lot (don't put too much stake in that):

Indeed, according to the terms of the contract now, if the money in the prize account should be below one million dollars at the time of someone winning, then the JREF would be forced to make up the difference somehow - how they do this really isn't an issue so long as they do. As an example, say if the prize funds dipped to exactly $990,000 - ten thousand dollars less than the million required when the money was claimed. The JREF would then be required to make up the remaining ten thousand from any legal avenue - taking out a short-term loan, for example, for the ten thousand would certainly work. Selling office furniture or used computers would be another way to raise the money. The contract in its current state is more advantageous to the applicant than it is to the JREF for these reasons.

I have, after consultation with my own spirits, carefully bolded several parts of the quote in the attempt to focus your rather sporadic attention to the legal issue at hand, not your erratic and demonstratedly-irrational fears.

~ Matt

 

[shadron]

Please forgive me. I thought that you knew what you were talking about. Silly me!

Ah, yes, this is a forum. If you want the troofers, their three doors down on the right. The polygraphers union is on the left. Good day.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Please turn on CNN or try to get out a little more.
Do you have a 401K? What percentage have you lost?
Anyone can write a contract for any sum, but if the market crashes and they don't have it, then where is the cash coming from.
Just tell me Carson Estate will pick up the difference and I will be happy

Any further rants about the solvency of the MDC prize money should belong in the Conspiracy Theory forum.

Soon to be followed by nominations to the Stundies .

 

[Moochie]

Any further rants about the solvency of the MDC prize money should belong in the Conspiracy Theory forum.

Soon to be followed by nominations to the Stundies .

I think TP may be the Sarah Palin of the JREF.


M.

 

[alfaniner]

Instead of asking "what will become of the money?" ... it has become "can the money be paid if won?"
~ MattC

The initial intent of the OP was actually both, but thanks for the detailed explanation. I didn't intend for this to become another ping-pong event for The Professor.

 

[The Professor]

Now with another 800 Point Drop will you all still pretend my question is invalid?

Now would be a great time for a critical thinker to step up and prove me wrong!

 

[MattC]

I'm not honestly sure what I can do for you, Mr. Koenig, if you continue to insist upon refusing to read anything I've said in this thread.

I request, quite simply, that you now either put up or shut up - respond my post earlier in the thread explaining, in detail, why the state of the market does not matter in this regard with some concrete proof that I am in error in what I say, or stop posting comments requesting explanations you have already gotten. It is disrespectful to me personally and everyone else who has ever attempted to explain anything to you.

Willingly disregarding or refusing to read explanations proffered are not actions typical of people deserving of the title "professor". It implies knowledge and wisdom - two things you very clearly seem to lack.

~ MattC

(ps: )

 

[Rodibidably]

Now with another 800 Point Drop will you all still pretend my question is invalid?

Now would be a great time for a critical thinker to step up and prove me wrong!

For all we know it's 100% invested in Haliburton and Exxon-Mobil. It could be worth 10mil by now if that's the case...

Just because the DOW drops, does not imply that all investments drop equally. The DOW is an indication of certain specific stocks and bonds, but it says nothing about the particular investments of the JREF or any other person or group.

You have been told multiple times by a represntative fo the JREF that the account contains enough $ to cover the MDC.

You have not (as far as I am aware) requested an updated statement from the JREF.
And you have not (as far as I am aware) actually applied for the MDC.

So I fail to see any point in your continued posts on this (or any other) thread.

 

[chillzero]

And you have not (as far as I am aware) actually applied for the MDC.

He has. That discussion is being held here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121157

 

[a_unique_person]

Just got a gig in The Land Down Under, so I will buy you ten Pints of Beer!!!!!
(When I get there this March) Congratulations. (I'm not kidding!)

I know Jeff says that the JREF will pay it but they can't if they don't HAVE IT. (Critical thinking here)
If it fall below $1,000,000 will they change the name or call the Carson estate?

Recipe for rabbit soup.

First, catch your rabbit.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Now with another 800 Point Drop will you all still pretend my question is invalid?

Now would be a great time for a critical thinker to step up and prove me wrong!

One can try, right? Well, here goes: Your question was valid.

The replies - including Jeff Wagg's - were also valid.



If you have further questions, do not hesitate to post them.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Now with another 800 Point Drop will you all still pretend my question is invalid?

Now would be a great time for a critical thinker to step up and prove me wrong!

Is there anything distinguishing this from other nutcase CTers? Someone who, when repeatedly shown the facts, continues to rant for their own private truth? Someone who, having access to the real facts, continues to foam at the mouth that it's all somehow a BIG LIE? Someone who, despite being spoonfed with proof, campaigns against the conspiracy against them?

It's all there, sheeple!

 

[Moochie]

Well, Professor..., Nah, fuggit.


M.

 

[eirik]

Now with another 800 Point Drop will you all still pretend my question is invalid?

Now would be a great time for a critical thinker to step up and prove me wrong!

No, your question is valid. You will get your money, I am confident of it. But I do have to say something, Dave. I'm a critical thinker. Don't snarkybash ME!!! I'm not so much DISAPPOiNTED and ANGRY at your your lack of in your post, as the fact that you didn't finish it up by screaming scream KOOL-AID!!! But I AM angry!!!!

Do the right thing, Herr Koenig, and show these CLOSED MINDED so-called "critical thinkers" that no matter how many it takes, you will never jump through the JREFs HOOPS, and certainly not produce a so-called "accepptable" protocol!!!! And BTW, where does the rules state that ithe protocol has to be acceptable, and if so, why is it not enough that they are acceptable by me?!!! Are you calling me a CHEATER?!!! It just gets me so ANGRY!!!!

 

[Cavemonster]

Now with another 800 Point Drop will you all still pretend my question is invalid?

Now would be a great time for a critical thinker to step up and prove me wrong!

Maybe I'm walking into this...

How does your suggestion differentiate the challenge from ANY other contract involving payment?

Most companies (building contractors etc) signing large contracts rely on business credit to make their payments. Business credit is much more on the ropes than invested cash.

If you're unwilling to enter into a contract with anyone who doesn't have all their money shoved under their mattress, I think you're limiting your options there.

Anyway, you can make paranormal predictions. You don't need the million bucks. All you have to do is make a prediction and invest heavily in the outcome, heck, make two just to hedge your bets.

 

[The Professor]

The money is going down the drain.
All the squirming in the world hasn't proven me wrong.
I'd like to see a CURRENT STATEMENT that shows the Million still exists.
Where is it?

 

[RoboTimbo]

The money is going down the drain.
All the squirming in the world hasn't proven me wrong.
I'd like to see a CURRENT STATEMENT that shows the Million still exists.
Where is it?

All the squirming in the world hasn't gotten you back to the protocol thread either so why are you so concerned about funds that will never be paid to you?

Put on your tinfoil hat and take this kind of rant to the CT forum.

 

[MattC]

http://www.guidestar.org/pqShowGsReport.do?npoId=523196

Balance Sheet, line 59:

Total Assets: 2,369,744

This can be further broken down into intangible assets not affected by stock market trends:

Land, building, and equipment basis: 518,786
Prepaid expenses and deferred charges: 1,032,443
Deferred Revenue: 380,407

It seems very clear then to state that they do have the money available.

Please again review what I've said about them being obligated to produce to you one million dollars if you win. The only person squirming about here is you, but that seems normal practice.

~ Matt

 

[Azrael 5]

He has started a thread on Magic Cafe today too about this topic.What members there can tell him that JREF can't is a mystery.

Edited by chillzero: 

Edited for civility

By the time you get to the final challenge in 2 years time(if ever)Im sure your concerns can be brought up then.

Edited by chillzero: 

Edited for civility

where is your protocol and team of writers and Uri Gellar and...and...and....

 

[GzuzKryzt]

The money is going down the drain.
All the squirming in the world hasn't proven me wrong.
I'd like to see a CURRENT STATEMENT that shows the Million still exists.
Where is it?

You have been shown - and repeatedly so - that the JREF Prize will be paid out if necessary.

If you consider the JREF inadequate of reimboursing you for a demonstration of your claimed abilities, you might want to consider to take your show somewhere else.

Also, your doubts would not only have to be casted upon the JREF and Goldman-Sachs, but also on the entire judiciary system of the USA.



If you have truly paranormal powers - and why would anyone doubt you do - might these folks want to listen to your advances? Why would they not?

 

[MattC]

It also bears mentioning that posting on a forum is quite obviously the best way to get information one desires, so much so in fact that the other avenues available may be completely discarded, as this method is so clearly superior as to render all others superfluous to the mind of a critical thinker.

~ Matt

 

[The Professor]

Wake up Boys!!! I didn't start this thread. One of your own did. If it's not a valid question then yell at him!
I just don't want to get stuck with some unsellable property in Fort Lauderdale

 

[Chris H]

Mr Koenig, just incase you missed my post from October 3rd.

I think you're concerning yourself with something that is not particularly relevant. One has to produce evidence of a paranormal ability or event to be awarded the million dollars. You are capable of neither, so it is of no concern to you.

Chris

 

[rjh01]

The answer to the original question was answered in post 4. No new issues have been raised since then.

 

[Chris H]

Tom Cutts, a staff member over at The Magic Cafe had this to say on the topic, and I hope he doesn't mind me quoting him here.

Even if the Mill was completely lost I have a rather strong hunch P&T would pony up. There is NO need to worry about a paultry million dolllars. Well, paltry to Vegas headliners that is.

The fact is that the million will be paid, on successful completion of the formal test. This is a none issue.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Wake up Boys!!! I didn't start this thread. One of your own did. If it's not a valid question then yell at him!
I just don't want to get stuck with some unsellable property in Fort Lauderdale

Since reading comprehension is so elusive for you, I'll boil it down to two simple things.

1. The million is there.
2. You won't get it.

Let me know if you need clarification on either of those things.

 

[catbasket]

Wake up Boys!!! I didn't start this thread. One of your own did. If it's not a valid question then yell at him!
I just don't want to get stuck with some unsellable property in Fort Lauderdale

The question has been answered. The fact that you are incapable of accepting the answer is not our fault.

Mutually acceptable protocol.
Pass preliminary test 31st October 2009.
Pass MDC test on 31st October 2010.

Maybe you should be more concerned about the state of the economy on 1st November 2010?

Oops, missed one, there's also the minor matter of having a genuine paranormal ability ... but of course even you know you don't have one.

 

[Azrael 5]

Since reading comprehension is so elusive for you, I'll boil it down to two simple things.

1. The million is there.
2. You won't get it.

Let me know if you need clarification on either of those things.

Succint and to the point as always.

Or should that be

 

[MattC]

Wake up Boys!!! I didn't start this thread. One of your own did. If it's not a valid question then yell at him!
I just don't want to get stuck with some unsellable property in Fort Lauderdale

The initial intent of the OP was actually both, but thanks for the detailed explanation. I didn't intend for this to become another ping-pong event for The Professor.

I got up at quarter to five.

~ Matt

 

[Azrael 5]

As The Professor is still babbling on this topic in Magic Cafe forum I wish to ask him direct.
Why is it so important to you to know wether the million is still there.You cannot do anything paranormal,you cannot even do a simple thing like put together a protocol.

At current speed,you would be on course for a chance at the million dollars in 2 years time.Its is not relevant today,tomorrow,next week or next year.

If you do not like this forget your application.Oh,hang on......

Edit to supply his nonsensical post

Since the JREF calls it THE MILLION DOLLAR CHALLENGE ... it is up to them to show proof that they have Said Million Bucks

Where's the proof?

 

[Chris H]

It seems that despite being informed here directly that the million dollars is safe, Mr Koenig is insisting on spreading his misinformation and lies where he won't get pulled up for them. This post was made by "tommy" on The Magic Cafe.

On 2008-10-14 21:25, tommy wrote:
I have wrote to Randi to see if I can take his test. Every time I throw a penny in the Wishing Well my wish comes true.

Mr Koenig's response follows.

On 2008-10-15 08:50, Psychic Samurai wrote:
Well, you'll have to put a microchip IN the coin to make sure that it is the exact coin that makes your wish come true, and not one of the other coins.

You'll have to prove that the coincidence plays NO PART and that the wish can not come true except by the coin wish itself.

One of Randi's boys or a hired expert will have to be down in the well to make sure the coin is not Switched Out. (You'll have to pay him since Randi covers NO expenses)

The wish must get plenty of media Coverage and you will have to have Academics testify that you can do this BEFORE you get a chance to do it.

HOWEVER ... Opus has a point, and the JREF would not consider it a valid claim since it can't be tested.

(Whatever is left of the Million is safe )

Some people never learn...

Chris

 

[Ocelot]

Professor, I don't want to see you distracted from incontrovertably demonstrating your paranormal abilities. Whilst I'm a skeptic I have an open mind and such a demonstration would rock my world.

In the doubly unlikley event that (1) The JREF Challenge is passed byu the deadline and (2) Goldman Sachs fails amid other financial catastophes leaving James Randi and the JREF without the capability to fullfil their obligation to pay the £1m dollars, I will commit to donating $1,000 toward payment of the prize.

I have little doubt that you'd find many other supporters of the JREF who would step in to help fill any deficit in JREF funds rather than seeing this fine organisation sink. Pen and Teller have already been mentioned.

Furthermore the $1m would be paltry compared to the world shattering accomplishment that would allow you to rake in further fame, wealth and influence over the years. Such an accomplishment wold deserve the Nobel Prize being as it would turn the laws of physics on thier head. That's no mere shiney trinket, and a diploma from the King of Sweden, it's also a montary grant of 10 million Swedish Krona (about $1.5 million at todays exchange rate)

If you can scientifically demonstrate a paranormal ability beyond reasonable doubt there's so many excellent reasons for actually doing so that the $1m pales into insignificance.

I'd be genuinely excited at the prospect if it wasn't for your equivocation suggesting that you know you have no chance of passing the test.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

It seems that despite being informed here directly that the million dollars is safe, Mr Koenig is insisting on spreading his misinformation and lies where he won't get pulled up for them. This post was made by "tommy" on The Magic Cafe.




Mr Koenig's response follows.




Some people never learn...

Chris

Ignorance is not an offense.