have they found anything?

[edteach]

This is another expen. of money that could be used else where. like looking for alturnitive sources of energy, ways to run our autos with out oil.

 

[Puppycow]

All expenditures of money are expenditures that could be used elsewhere. I think this is a pretty good one.

 

[Jimcalagon]

This is another expen. of money that could be used else where. like looking for alturnitive sources of energy, ways to run our autos with out oil.

I'm trying to think of a polite reply to this without including the words "drop" and "ocean". I'll get back to you.

 

[Rob Lister]

This is another expen. of money that could be used else where. like looking for alturnitive sources of energy, ways to run our autos with out oil.

SETI receives no government support. It is entirely privately funded. If you don't like it, don't donate.

 

[edteach]

its a waist of time and I wont donate

 

[ravdin]

its a waist of time and I wont donate

Your contribution will be sorely missed.

 

[Fnord]

This is another expen. of money that could be used else where. like looking for alturnitive sources of energy, ways to run our autos with out oil.

This thread is a waste of bandwidth that could be used elsewhere. Like in an on-line course that teaches correct spelling, proper grammar, and appropriate punctuation.

It's a waste of time and I won't reply.

 

[NorfolkAtheist]

This is another expen. of money that could be used else where. like looking for alturnitive sources of energy, ways to run our autos with out oil.

You're going to look pretty foolish when we finally do make contact and the aliens end up telling us the secret to running our "autos with out oil."

 

[JAStewart]

I think that SETI is a decent idea, but I just don't think I actually know what it is doing. I dunno if its a waste of money or not, if it was the only thing searching for aliens then maybe it would be worth it but otherwise I dunno.

 

[tofu]

the aliens end up telling us the secret to running our "autos with out oil."

"Simple," they'll say, "just use the sap of the common elibo tree which grows in most pod-stalk forests."

"uh, we don't have those" we'll say.

(75 years later)

"LOL! you guys are screwed then!" they'll say.

 

[JAStewart]

Wouldn't contact with Aliens be somewhat futile, based on the fact that the difference in time between us and the other life be so vast? (like, based on the time it would take for the signal to travel?)

 

[tofu]

"contact" in this context, mostly means just knowing that someone else is out there. Back and forth communication isn't going to happen. I think there are three different categories of signals that we might find:

1. those that are incidental to the operation of a civilization - basically, radars and such. These are easy to find because of their power, but give us no information at all.

2. messages that they send to themselves - like their version of TV. This sounds like it'd be great, but in reality, we would have almost no hope of understanding them, or putting them into any kind of context. I'd love to be proven wrong though. Note that it's also quite likely that an advanced society compresses or encrypts all of its communications, and by definition those would be indistinguishable from random noise (though still possibly detectable). A really advanced civilization might even communicate between colonies or ship-to-colony via optical wavelengths, which would be so highly directional that we have little chance of seeing them. I think this category of signal is the least likely for us to find.

3. a message that an advanced civilization sends out specifically to alert the rest of the galaxy that it exists - as in the movie Contact. This would be the holy grail for SETI, because this kind of message would be designed to be decoded, and designed to be interesting.

At any rate, none of those situations involves communication with the aliens. Sure, if we find one, we'd start sending transmissions back. But then, in hundreds of years, when our signal gets to them, they would have to get lucky to hear us.

The most important thing about SETI would be knowing we're not alone - and that is certainly important enough to justify the effort.

 

[Radrook]

Wouldn't contact with Aliens be somewhat futile, based on the fact that the difference in time between us and the other life be so vast? (like, based on the time it would take for the signal to travel?)

In the film CONTACT the aliens provided a means to get around the signal time delay problem.

 

[JAStewart]

Ah right. Well I watched Contact, the movie, and thought that it was pretty boring. This was like, 8 years ago or something though.

 

[rwguinn]

These folks who say it's a waste of time and mone make me think of a fellow I went Elk hunting with, once.
After 2 hours of climbing and bushwaking, we got to a saddle about a half hour before dawn. He looked around, procalimed "There's no elk here - let's go!"
I let him, and less than an hour later was filling my Deer tag at that location.
(Since I had to muscle it down the hill by myself, I didn't share, either!)
Never went hunting with that guy again, nor did anybody else in the party..

 

[T'ai Chi]

What are SETI's accomplishments so far? What are their 'deliverables'? Do we know more about 'ET' now than when they started?

 

[CFLarsen]

What are SETI's accomplishments so far? What are their 'deliverables'? Do we know more about 'ET' now than when they started?

Have you asked them?

 

[T'ai Chi]

These folks who say it's a waste of time and mone make me think of a fellow I went Elk hunting with, once.
After 2 hours of climbing and bushwaking, we got to a saddle about a half hour before dawn. He looked around, procalimed "There's no elk here - let's go!"
I let him, and less than an hour later was filling my Deer tag at that location.
(Since I had to muscle it down the hill by myself, I didn't share, either!)
Never went hunting with that guy again, nor did anybody else in the party..

Yikes. I hope the ETs don't read this and think that we're going to hunt them down.

I see what you're saying, but

a) we know elk exist, it isn't an extraordinary claim
b) elk hunting doesn't cost millions of dollars
c) one can use your analogy to argue that we should continue believing in gods, and just about every other topic

 

[CFLarsen]

Yikes. I hope the ETs don't read this and think that we're going to hunt them down.

I see what you're saying, but

a) we know elk exist, it isn't an extraordinary claim
b) elk hunting doesn't cost millions of dollars
c) one can use your analogy to argue that we should continue believing in gods, and just about every other topic

What you are suggesting is that we stop funding science.

 

[rwguinn]

Yikes. I hope the ETs don't read this and think that we're going to hunt them down.

I see what you're saying, but

a) we know elk exist, it isn't an extraordinary claim
b) elk hunting doesn't cost millions of dollars
c) one can use your analogy to argue that we should continue believing in gods, and just about every other topic

Might I suggest that you use the space between the ears for something other than a hatrack?
1.It's a BIG da*n universe. The odds are that something exists out there. Just because we know elk exist does not mean that we can find them at first glance.
2. You've never gone hunting, have you. A hunt is a substantially larger piece of my budget than SETI is of the Federal budget (Especially since it is mostly private funding)
3. No--it means we should never stop searching for answers. Patience is required
And you missed the more impartant part of my analogy--I filled a DEER tag. Sometimes the answers we get are not the ones we sought--but are useful in their own way. It is called "serendipity"

 

[T'ai Chi]

Might I suggest that you use the space between the ears for something other than a hatrack?

Certainly. And I'd consider your suggestion with the same attentiveness that I consider all other heckles by random pseudoskeptics. Fair?

1.It's a BIG da*n universe. The odds are that something exists out there.

Then anything you want to exist can exist if you're claiming that. It is the typical

big universe --> high probability of anything existing

3. No--it means we should never stop searching for answers.

Well I agree with that; I'm all for research. But you gotta wonder when to stop as a foolish way to spend valuable resources when it looks like no answers are coming in.

 

[fuelair]

its a waist of time and I wont donate

With, truly, no reference to your topic - only to your forum name - I do so hope you are not actually involved in education in any way!!!




Hadn't seen TC was here - but should have expected it. Same message - just different reason.

 

[rwguinn]

Certainly. And I'd consider your suggestion with the same attentiveness that I consider all other heckles by random pseudoskeptics. Fair?



Then anything you want to exist can exist if you're claiming that. It is the typical

big universe --> high probability of anything existing



Well I agree with that; I'm all for research. But you gotta wonder when to stop as a foolish way to spend valuable resources when it looks like no answers are coming in.

So, who gets to decide if a line of research is "valuable"?
You?

Just to let you know--research ALWAYS pays back much, much more than its cost.
If your type had been in charge of the space program (a useless endevor, certainly) we'd all have 5 channels on our vacuum tube TV's (no satellites!), big black rotary phones in every house, and the internet would only be a Science Fiction background.
No video games, no Ipods, and many more people dying from heart attaqcks and cancer--not to mention the crippling effects of joint injuries--no cat scans, no joint replacements,

 

[Olowkow]

I have come to the conclusion that some people just do not put a high value on the rational or on reality. This is similar in nature to the low esteem I have for the supernatural. However, the former seem to feel insult when this is pointed out to them, while I feel pride when I am deemed a realist.

What is real here is the need for man to explore, to invent, to think. This is why SETI exists. Curiosity and wonder are built into our species and it is part of the reason we still exist as a life form. Of course, watching I Love Lucy reruns may be less of a "waist of time" for the OP.

I suspect that the OP would marvel at the stupidity of owning or admiring expensive art, or at the inanity of musical talent. But this is what makes us human. The equipment they have is some of the most exquisite stuff in the art of electronics. You can even get PC software which doubles as a screen saver that helps with the computer time searching for a signal.

I think it is quite cool. As for the budget, it is on the wane unfortunately:

http://openseti.org/Budget.html

 

[Soapy Sam]

In all honesty, if SETI announced a definite, repeatable hit tomorrow, I can't imagine being more than mildly surprised. I doubt it would fundamentally affect my life, or anyone else's. A number of books would be written, some by woos claiming previous contact, some by scientists discussing probabilities.
If the signal contained usable information ("Contact" style), that would be something else, but most probably it would be the equivalent of "Reality TV", only with more legs.

 

[MilwaukeeMike]

This is another expen. of money that could be used else where. like looking for alturnitive sources of energy, ways to run our autos with out oil.

I agree, at least with moving the money to other areas of research. I still think there could be life out there, but come on, do we really think we are going to find them by searching for radio signals. I saw a show on this and humans on a galactic level would be considered slugs compared to the possible life out there. Are we to assume life that could be millions of years more advance than us still using radio as communication? They could be using something we cannot even fathom. I think a more plausible idea is there is life out there and it is on a micro biotic level.

 

[bigred]

So, who gets to decide if a line of research is "valuable"?
You?

I think he's expressing his viewpoint, as are you and all of us on this thread - in fact I think that's the point of this site, for the most part.

Just to let you know--research ALWAYS pays back much, much more than its cost.

I can't wait to hear how SETI has done this.

If your type had been in charge of the space program

"his type?" So since he questions SETI's usefulness, surely he would've questioned the entire space program's usefulness? What evidence do you have for this? Has he done so in the past?

Also, the space program from the start pretty much produced immediate, tangible benefits. What has SETI done in that regard?

No video games, no Ipods,

You say that like it's a bad thing.

What is real here is the need for man to explore, to invent, to think.

...all which can be (and for almost all of man's existance, has been) done w/o SETI's existance.

Curiosity and wonder are built into our species and it is part of the reason we still exist as a life form.

No argument there...

I suspect that the OP would marvel at the stupidity of owning or admiring expensive art, or at the inanity of musical talent.

More lame and unjustified cheap shots.

And in fact I have marvelled at the stupidity of owning or admiring expensive art - when it was owned or admired because of its price, something which has nothing to do with how good a given piece of art is. Pretentiousness in art (esp paintings and such) is all the rage.

You can even get PC software which doubles as a screen saver that helps with the computer time searching for a signal.

Is that still around? Yeah I thought that was pretty cool too.

PS and FYI, I'm all for SETI. I just think it's pointless and does nothing for a "pro SETI" viewpoint to rip on someone because they dared to question it.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Why is it people want to talk in ignorance?

The Planetary Society is the prime sponsor of SETI research http://planetary.org/special/seti .

It is fully self-funded by its supporters and volunteers. They make the decision about what they will do. It's not your money they spend. It's not the government's money they spend.

When freeking sports players get millions of dollars a year, what the PS spends is insignificant.

When the UK was cancelling its space program ISTR a comment that they could actually have funded a very good one if they spent the equivalent of what was been spent in the country on advertising laundry detergents.

Priorities anyone?

 

[The Gnomon]

Why we should demand they spend their own money elsewhere.

The Planetary Society is the prime sponsor of SETI research http://planetary.org/special/seti .

It is fully self-funded by its supporters and volunteers. They make the decision about what they will do. It's not your money they spend. It's not the government's money they spend.

Just think - If they redirected their billions to global warming and world peace, they could make the world a utopia!

Certainly the world would be a better place if we could each tell everyone else what to do with his/her money and time. Somewhere in the multiverse, we would all be gods.

In this particular instantiation of the multiverse, however, we are, with some limitations, free to devote time and money to whatever we wish, no matter how worthwhile. The advantage of this is that we dissipate our energies in a variety of directions rather than have a powerful authority focus our energy on a few worthless projects (e.g. wars). The disadvantage is that we run the chance of opening new avenues of interest, inquiry and understanding, thus undermining the authority of the rulers.

BTW - I demand you give up your hobbies, as they do not please me.

 

[tumnus]

Then anything you want to exist can exist if you're claiming that. It is the typical

big universe --> high probability of anything existing

Well I agree with that; I'm all for research. But you gotta wonder when to stop as a foolish way to spend valuable resources when it looks like no answers are coming in.

Indeed, big universe. Chances of anything near us is probably quite remote. But it cant hurt to try and take a look, rather than sit on our bottoms. That's one of the good qualities of humans, that they think of ways of finding out about stuff. How long has it been going on for now? twenty, thirty years? That's not very long, (unless you think the earth is 6000 years old or so) and there's a lot to look at.

They're funding themselves, its a drop in the ocean in terms of resources (I like when the fellow compared it to the amount sports stars earn!), so what's the big deal. An they're curious, because they don't know one way or the other, and would like to at least try and find out.

Of course, some people have all the answers already, so they can keep sitting on their bottoms.

 

[JHA]

This is another expen. of money that could be used else where. like looking for alturnitive sources of energy, ways to run our autos with out oil.

There is a way; it's called "pushing".

Why do you think so many cars have heated rear windows?

Looking for ET hasn't been exactly futile; it got the distributed computing idea off the ground and now there are dozens of very worthy projects in which one could participate. I particularly like the one that analyses climate data; that could lead to better decision-making by our glorious leaders and the avoidance of (very) expensive mistakes.

There are also several involving medical research ... hope y'all get cracking soon on one or the other of these.

 

[Richard Masters]

All expenditures of money are expenditures that could be used elsewhere. I think this is a pretty good one.

I personally like SETI, but I understand why others wouldn't want to pay for projects like it and NASA

 

[Ottis]

In all honesty, if SETI announced a definite, repeatable hit tomorrow, I can't imagine being more than mildly surprised. I doubt it would fundamentally affect my life, or anyone else's.......

The definite existence of ETL would answer one of the basic questions that I've had since childhood. I believe it would make a HUGE difference in many peoples outlook on life and our place in the universe.
I'm not saying anything against Soapy Sam, I just don't understand his mindset..

 

[Radrook]

It wouldn't affect my concept of my place in the universe at all.

 

[godless dave]

I agree, at least with moving the money to other areas of research. I still think there could be life out there, but come on, do we really think we are going to find them by searching for radio signals. I saw a show on this and humans on a galactic level would be considered slugs compared to the possible life out there. Are we to assume life that could be millions of years more advance than us still using radio as communication?

Why do you assume they would be millions of years more advanced than we? Even if they are, they weren't always that advanced. At some point in their development, they may have used radio. Those signals would still be traveling through space.

 

[Radrook]

They might all be living in tents and wearing loin cloths.

 

[amb]

The late Carl Sagan had an input in SETI. For that reason alone, in memory of the man it should be continued.
If restrictions were placed on Christopher Columbus, perhaps America would not have been colonised.

 

[El Greco]

The definite existence of ETL would answer one of the basic questions that I've had since childhood.

What was that question ? Whether there are aliens out there ? I've decided a long time ago to believe that statistically there must be. And that also we won't be making any kind of contact in my lifetime.

I believe it would make a HUGE difference in many peoples outlook on life and our place in the universe.

I don't think so. Maybe for a little while, but as soon as people realize we can't pick up a phone and talk to them, everything will slowly return back to normal.

Unfortunately I don't even know whether man will ever make contact with an alien civilization or we'll disappear from the universe without ever having that chance.

 

[TeslaPRG]

When we look at the tiny amount of money being spent on SETI compared to what we spend on our own self destruction SETI is actually insanely under funded even with our private donations. I believe that any discovery in this area would definitely be the most profound discovery since the theory of evolution in helping mankind understand itself. Critics of SETI I have discovered also criticize other research science. Science should not have to be focused on helping enterprise exclusively, it's o.k. for us to learn for the sake of knowledge.

paul

 

[Radrook]

The late Carl Sagan had an input in SETI. For that reason alone, in memory of the man it should be continued.
If restrictions were placed on Christopher Columbus, perhaps America would not have been colonised.

I thought America had been already colonised by the Indians when Christopher showed up.