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Go woke, go broke

Saw this story on the US iteration of ABC and it seems to fit the theme of this thread.


To summarize, the City of San Francisco banned it's various departments from even speaking with people who lived in states that didn't conform to their professed values.


Turns out that limiting your supply options like that has consequences.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kZBD9xoQRQ
 
Interesting counter-example from Jalopnik:

Tesla Learns Hard Lesson: Go Anti-Woke, Go Broke

When CEO Elon Musk took a hard turn to the right, the number of Democrats buying Teslas dropped 60 percent.

Things are not going well at Tesla right now. The stock is down more than $100 per share year-to-date, as many as 20,000 people are set to lose their jobs, the Cybertruck keeps breaking, operating profit is expected to be down 40 percent when it’s announced later today and the $25,000 electric vehicle that Tesla has reportedly been working on is apparently canceled. As the Wall Street Journal reports, some but not all of that stress can be attributed to Tesla alienating what was previously its most valuable demographic — Democrats.

Historically, Democrats have bought Teslas in significantly larger numbers than people with other political affiliations. As Elon Musk has moved to the right, interacting with far-right accounts, promoting race “science,” anti-Semitism, homophobia, transphobia and complaining about the “woke mind virus,” though, the number of Democrats interested in giving him their money has dropped significantly. Late last year, that figure reportedly dropped by more than 60 percent.
 
You had to know that Musk's racist politics wasn't going to go over well with the green crowd his business relies on.

I think you have to pick one of two options:

You can be disliked if you sell a good product;

or, you can sell an inferior product if your goals and viewpoints are widely shared;

but you can't be a complete ******* and still expect to sell crap.
 
I think you have to pick one of two options:

You can be disliked if you sell a good product;
or, you can sell an inferior product if your goals and viewpoints are widely shared;

but you can't be a complete ******* and still expect to sell crap.

To a point.

Teslas are generally praised by their owners. That said, Tesla sells boutique products to early adopters. People with extra money who can and will spend more than the average car buyer. They can buy any car they want.

A substantial percentage of Tesla's market is composed by progressive, environmentally conscious overwhelmingly college educated Democrats.

I know I would love to own a Tesla. I have given it consideration. But I can't afford it. I also cannot justify contributing to Musk.
 
But he's just practicing free speech!

It's cancel culture run amok if people don't buy his stuff because he mocks them!

I always laugh at the term "cancel culture." Aren't my purchase decisions also an expression of my freedom? I have no problem with certain groups attempting to influence me about who and what I should or shouldn't patronize.

But I have a huge problem with them telling me what and who I can patronize.
 
To a point.

Teslas are generally praised by their owners. That said, Tesla sells boutique products to early adopters. People with extra money who can and will spend more than the average car buyer. They can buy any car they want.

A substantial percentage of Tesla's market is composed by progressive, environmentally conscious overwhelmingly college educated Democrats.

I know I would love to own a Tesla. I have given it consideration. But I can't afford it. I also cannot justify contributing to Musk.

I can afford to own a new Tesla but choose not to because I feel they're still too expensive.

A three year old Model 3 with 50k miles on it OTOH is within the bounds of affordability and IMO will become even more so as the second hand market sees even more of them.
 
I can afford to own a new Tesla but choose not to because I feel they're still too expensive.

A three year old Model 3 with 50k miles on it OTOH is within the bounds of affordability and IMO will become even more so as the second hand market sees even more of them.

I think the question is total affordability. The total cost of ownership including maintenance, fuel and insurance.
 
I always laugh at the term "cancel culture." Aren't my purchase decisions also an expression of my freedom? I have no problem with certain groups attempting to influence me about who and what I should or shouldn't patronize.

But I have a huge problem with them telling me what and who I can patronize.


Cancel Culture - Bad
Boycott - Good

Calls for boycotts often influence my buying decisions. A few years ago there was a TV commercial for Honey Maid Graham Crackers with a tagline that was something like "Wholesome snacks for wholesome families". It showed various couples enjoying the crackers with their children, including a same sex couple. The usual suspects called for a boycott of the product, which resulted in me buying several boxes out of spite.
 
Cancel Culture - Bad
Boycott - Good

Calls for boycotts often influence my buying decisions. A few years ago there was a TV commercial for Honey Maid Graham Crackers with a tagline that was something like "Wholesome snacks for wholesome families". It showed various couples enjoying the crackers with their children, including a same sex couple. The usual suspects called for a boycott of the product, which resulted in me buying several boxes out of spite.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Glad to see people do that.

But one man's boycott is another man's "cancel culture."
 
A boycott, whatever the motivation, is perfectly fine.

Demonizing someone, and trying to deny them access to employment and public discourse, because they dissent from your preferred brand of sociopolitical woo, is something else entirely.
 
A boycott, whatever the motivation, is perfectly fine.

Demonizing someone, and trying to deny them access to employment and public discourse, because they dissent from your preferred brand of sociopolitical woo, is something else entirely.

And yet we have seen it practiced gy conservatives in the US for a hundred and thirty years at least. Companies have had no problem firing employees for union activity. They not only have employed private police, ie: The Pinkertons to beat them up. They have also used the US military.
 
I think the question is total affordability. The total cost of ownership including maintenance, fuel and insurance.

Insurance would be about the same as my current car, the fuel cost is 2p per mile vs 15p per mile (if charged at home and paying for electricity, for several months a year it would be free or nearly so thanks to our PV installation), maintenance would likely be significantly cheaper if our other EV is anything to go by.

Apart from the acquisition cost, in the UK running an EV is cheaper than running an ICE vehicle unless you have to do all your charging at the most expensive rapid chargers.
 
I should have been clearer that I was being facetious. The people who complain about cancel culture are usually perfectly fine with calling for boycotts, when there's no real difference.

they're also fine with book bans and banning readings at libraries by drag queens and kings. don't say gay, etc...the main difference, is they prefer to use the government to ban things they don't like.
 
Insurance would be about the same as my current car, the fuel cost is 2p per mile vs 15p per mile (if charged at home and paying for electricity, for several months a year it would be free or nearly so thanks to our PV installation), maintenance would likely be significantly cheaper if our other EV is anything to go by.

Apart from the acquisition cost, in the UK running an EV is cheaper than running an ICE vehicle unless you have to do all your charging at the most expensive rapid chargers.

So how does acquisition and resale affect the equation? Or the longevity and replacement of the batteries?

One of the things I despise about the Tesla vehicles is how they own their customers. By that I mean, they don't allow others to work on their cars. And software features like self driving, range and supercharge don't transfer freely to the second owners.

I have a big mad-on for "right to repair."
 
Turns out that limiting your supply options like that has consequences.

Without even needing to watch that - Duh? Of course it has direct negative consequences. Hurting themselves more than the other side would also be completely unsurprising if they're not doing it in conjunction with a significant portion of the rest of potential clients. That doesn't automatically make it right or wrong. Much the same can be said of all kinds of trade restrictions around the world, yet there are many justifications for such restrictions that focus on various other angles.


A boycott, whatever the motivation, is perfectly fine.

Demonizing someone, and trying to deny them access to employment and public discourse, because they dissent from your preferred brand of sociopolitical woo, is something else entirely.

Fair enough, in principle. In practice? That kind of thing has been in play for a long time. The worst offenders have generally been the same groups that currently whine about wokeness, too, at that.

When it comes to acting to deny people access to employment and public discourse because they dissent from your preferred brand of sociopolitical woo, to poke at a relatively recent example that goes above and beyond in that direction - that radio show host who was fired mid program for having the temerity to offer mild criticism of Trump is a pretty stunning example of exactly what you just described. "Loyalty" has long been far more valued by self-described conservatives than self described liberals and progressives, while truth is more valued by said liberals and progressives than said conservatives.

The businesses that act to cater to each do tend to respond accordingly, incidentally. Hence how Fox and much of the rest of right-wing media got away with tossing truth into the trash can for long enough to convince most of their "conservative" audience of Trump's Big Lies.

And yet we have seen it practiced gy conservatives in the US for a hundred and thirty years at least. Companies have had no problem firing employees for union activity. They not only have employed private police, ie: The Pinkertons to beat them up. They have also used the US military.

Hardly the only similar situation, of course. Much of the history of racism in the US involves demonizing, denying access to employment and public discourse, and plenty more (and worse) along those lines.

The claims by many of the "anti-woke" crowd to want a color blind meritocracy are a bit worthy of eye rolls when kept in perspective with things like that. Actual "wokeness" is largely a reaction to how very far away from a color blind meritocracy we have been in practice.

Corporate "wokeness," on the other hand, is largely an attempted strategy to increase profits. Corporate "wokeness" seems like it can often work, for that matter, though it's hardly some guarantee that profits will increase, depending on the larger situation and their existing customer base. Businesses that largely depend and cater to the "anti-woke" crowd will generally suffer for public "woke" stunts and "wokeness" won't somehow make up for larger consumer behavior trends and changes in the quality of products.
 
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Hardly the only similar situation, of course. Much of the history of racism in the US involves demonizing, denying access to employment and public discourse, and plenty more (and worse) along those lines.

The claims by many of the "anti-woke" crowd to want a color blind meritocracy are a bit worthy of eye rolls when kept in perspective with things like that. Actual "wokeness" is largely a reaction to how very far away from a color blind meritocracy we have been in practice.

Corporate "wokeness," on the other hand, is largely an attempted strategy to increase profits. Corporate "wokeness" seems like it can often work, for that matter, though it's hardly some guarantee that profits will increase, depending on the larger situation and their existing customer base. Businesses that largely depend and cater to the "anti-woke" crowd will generally suffer for public "woke" stunts and "wokeness" won't somehow make up for larger consumer behavior trends and changes in the quality of products.

If people think the American brand of capitalism is a "meritocracy" they are blind. And not just colorblind. It is far more often an aristocracy. Education and opportunities are the result of familial and other personal connections.

Hard for poor white trash to overcome. Even harder for people of color.
 
So how does acquisition and resale affect the equation? Or the longevity and replacement of the batteries?

In my case resale doesn't enter the equation - I run cars until they die. If I get 10 years out of the Tesla then that would be fine. So far it seems that battery replacement is unlikely to be a requirement because the car would still only be 13 years old and have much less than 150k miles on it.

One of the things I despise about the Tesla vehicles is how they own their customers. By that I mean, they don't allow others to work on their cars. And software features like self driving, range and supercharge don't transfer freely to the second owners.

I have a big mad-on for "right to repair."

I'm not aware of any big issues relating to Tesla and routine maintenance but that's a good point. There are a lot of Teslas on UK roads and they're being maintained somewhere.

The transfer (or otherwise) of firmware features is something that I'll need to be aware of if I buy a used Tesla if they are features I'm interested in.

If Tesla is not the answer because of these issues then there are a large number of Kias and Hyundais out there that are also highly regarded and they too will likely be affordable.
 
So how does acquisition and resale affect the equation? Or the longevity and replacement of the batteries?

One of the things I despise about the Tesla vehicles is how they own their customers. By that I mean, they don't allow others to work on their cars. And software features like self driving, range and supercharge don't transfer freely to the second owners.

Sadly, that isn't exclusive to Tesla. If I get my Toyota serviced at the mechanic down the road from, there are a million things he can do in the course of routine maintenance that would invalidated my service plan.

I have a big mad-on for "right to repair."

The Biden administration has actually been pushing for Right to Repair legistaltion but it is stalled in the Senate.
 
WTF? Your lack of empathy for disadvantaged whites does you no credit.

Thanks!

Since I grew up among and as a part of that demographic, I view that as sort of a term of endearment.
 
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I will say, I don't think you can look at a company's stock price day-to-day and say it is deffinately because the CEO made this racist comment or this Instagram celebrity endrosed them. Stock prices seem fairly divorced from reality.

I think Tesla's stock issues have more to do with Musk's primary business being vaporware sales and insitutional investors getting tired of the unfulfilled promises.
 
I will say, I don't think you can look at a company's stock price day-to-day and say it is deffinately because the CEO made this racist comment or this Instagram celebrity endorsed them. Stock prices seem fairly divorced from reality.
I think Tesla's stock issues have more to do with Musk's primary business being vaporware sales and insitutional investors getting tired of the unfulfilled promises.

Of course they are - it's gambling, prettified and meant to be so rational but in the end, it is people (and now computers) making bets.
 
I will say, I don't think you can look at a company's stock price day-to-day and say it is deffinately because the CEO made this racist comment or this Instagram celebrity endrosed them.

Ehh. Day to day is one thing. If the CEO very publicly claiming something utterly repulsive and the stock price "just happens" to drop notably right after, the two are quite likely to be linked. Long-term performance is a different story.


Stock prices seem fairly divorced from reality.

I'd go with a more nuanced description there - there are a number of factors that have little to nothing to do with a company's performance that affect stock prices. The effects of those factors is much more pronounced with higher company visibility and politicization.
 
i don't think there's any positives to having a ceo that publicly humiliates themselves on a regular basis
 
well, not if you are employee of or a shareholder in the company. For the rest of us, it is hilarious.
 
To a point.

Teslas are generally praised by their owners. That said, Tesla sells boutique products to early adopters. People with extra money who can and will spend more than the average car buyer. They can buy any car they want.
A substantial percentage of Tesla's market is composed by progressive, environmentally conscious overwhelmingly college educated Democrats.

I know I would love to own a Tesla. I have given it consideration. But I can't afford it. I also cannot justify contributing to Musk.

And they're also the kind of people who are more likely to engage in cultic behaviour. A case in point, the amount of people complaining recently of serious problems making their cybertrucks undriveable death traps, yet ending their complaints with (a variation of) "but it's still the best car I've ever owned".
 
Cancel Culture - Bad
Boycott - Good
Calls for boycotts often influence my buying decisions. A few years ago there was a TV commercial for Honey Maid Graham Crackers with a tagline that was something like "Wholesome snacks for wholesome families". It showed various couples enjoying the crackers with their children, including a same sex couple. The usual suspects called for a boycott of the product, which resulted in me buying several boxes out of spite.

Which is very ironic because the original boycotts (named after one of their most famous victims) were organised and carried out by a strongly left wing agrarian movement, the Land League.
 
Corporate Hypocrisy

It’s Pride Month! While some corporations like Target are hiding their pride for the sake of loud conservatives, others are doing everything they can to virtue signal to consumers. Jon Stewart rips off the mask of corporate “values” and examines how corporations will perform caring about issues like DEI, climate change, or patriotism, as long as it means bigger profits, and how quickly they backtrack on those moral stands when it no longer suits their bottom line.
Jon Stewart Smashes the Myth of Corporate Morality in Pride, BLM, and Beyond (The Daily Show with Jon Steart, June 11, 2024 - 14:10 min.)
 
And they're also the kind of people who are more likely to engage in cultic behaviour. A case in point, the amount of people complaining recently of serious problems making their cybertrucks undriveable death traps, yet ending their complaints with (a variation of) "but it's still the best car I've ever owned".

Really? I don't think they are any more cultish than the morons running around my town in huge pickups with giant flags in the back. I particularly like the guy who has Old Glory, the Confederate Rebel flag and the Gadsden flag.

I'd love to own a Tesla. For what I consider the wrong reason. They can be very fun to drive. I think the Cyber truck is maybe the ugliest car ever and I owned a Pacer. (Look it up. It was hideous.) But I'd love to own an X model in the plaid edition.
 
Really? I don't think they are any more cultish than the morons running around my town in huge pickups with giant flags in the back. I particularly like the guy who has Old Glory, the Confederate Rebel flag and the Gadsden flag.

I'd love to own a Tesla. For what I consider the wrong reason. They can be very fun to drive. I think the Cyber truck is maybe the ugliest car ever and I owned a Pacer. (Look it up. It was hideous.) But I'd love to own an X model in the plaid edition.
Slight thread drift here, but I always thought the Pacer wasn't so bad looking, though odd. It would have seemed a pretty good idea, I think, if only it had been better engineered and made.

I agree, though that people complaining about such things as the Cybertruck not living up to its promise are not necessarily cultish. They're just ticked off that what should have been better isn't. That differs somewhat from the huge pickups with flags, which are all gesture with little if any benefit.
 
Slight thread drift here, but I always thought the Pacer wasn't so bad looking, though odd. It would have seemed a pretty good idea, I think, if only it had been better engineered and made.
The one I had was actually pretty good and it was pretty roomy. I got it super cheap. Nevertheless, it wasn't exactly a chick magnet. I always felt a little strange picking up a girl on say a first date in it. But it was wheels.


I agree, though that people complaining about such things as the Cybertruck not living up to its promise are not necessarily cultish. They're just ticked off that what should have been better isn't. That differs somewhat from the huge pickups with flags, which are all gesture with little if any benefit.
It's a terrible truck. More like a car with a small useless truck bed. Oh well. My guess is it will not sell well after a year or two.
 
Slight thread drift here, but I always thought the Pacer wasn't so bad looking, though odd.

Everybody that I met back in the 1970s who had a Pacer weighed more than 300 pounds, and I don't think that is a coincidence.
 
Everybody that I met back in the 1970s who had a Pacer weighed more than 300 pounds, and I don't think that is a coincidence.

Probably not. It does look like a fat person's car.

What I love is that it was the car that Wayne and Garth drove.
 
Probably not. It does look like a fat person's car.

What I love is that it was the car that Wayne and Garth drove.

Hey I had girlfriends who drove a Vega and a Dodge Dart, so not mocking the people who drove those pieces of ****, just the cars they got stuck with.
 
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