Ghosts and Haunted Houses

[P.J. Denyer]

The unfortunate dog knew it was in big trouble because of course it knew what it had done and realised this had been a bad move because dogs are so sensitive to social cues in their 'pack'.

Worth noting the owner also sensed that the dog knew things were bad, because humans too are sensitive to behavioural cues and not because they had some kind of sixth sense either.

Dogs don't feel guilt about past events the way we do, they react to our reaction to events, when you are angry at them they act in a way to mollify you which involves the actions we think of as a dog acting guilty, they'll act the same wayeven if they're not responsible for whatever is the cause of your anger.

In this case the dog would have known something was going on, that it's owners were upset and they were acting differently toward it, that's enough to explain it acting differently, add to that the owners projecting their own feelings on to that behaviour and it's more than enough to explain their perception of events.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

And just to prove the point, Bert just put in an appearance. 6:30pm exactly according to my phone. I on the other hand was running way behind as I was posting here instead of doing my pre-Bert's dinner guitar practice!

 

[Thermal]

This, my wife & I both keep irregular schedules, on the rare occasion I leave him at home or my wife takes my old noisy car he hears it from miles away, her new quiet one not so much & he can be surprised by her arrival home. For people with regular habits, don't forget dogs have a very good sense of time, when it interests them, Bert knows his 6:30pm dinner time to within a couple of minutes and makes us very aware if we're distracted and tardy.

Does your dog make an immediate adjustment to daylight savings time? The one we have now does, which makes me think she is reacting to our schedule and routine, rather than an internal clock or sun position.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Does your dog make an immediate adjustment to daylight savings time? The one we have now does, which makes me think she is reacting to our schedule and routine, rather than an internal clock or sun position.

He adjusts quite quickly, but there's a few days when he's late or pleasantly surprised. He's the same in the morning and acts as my wife's alarm clock. Allegedly, for me early mornings are something that happens to other people now.

 

[theprestige]

I don't want to use words like "magic powers", cause I obviously don't believe magic exists.

For lack of a better word, however, I think animals have some sort of telepathy, as crazy as that sounds.

I mean, I obviously don't believe in ESP or telepathy but I don't know how else to describe it.

People swear up and down that cows can sense when the rain is coming, for instance. When they know it is about to rain, they all lay down.

People speculate that they somehow feel changes in air pressure. Or they feel the moisture on their fur.

Fair enough. But that doesn't explain how animals KNOW they are about to die.

And again, it isn't cause they "smell the blood in the air."

My acquaintance was ordered to surrender a perfectly nice pit bull that had bitten a neighbor's dog cause that dog had trespassed into their property. What a shame. It was completely unfair. The other dog wasn't badly hurt, either! The pit bull was euthanized for no reason.

Setting that aside, the pit bull knew she was marked for death. She just knew it.

And it wasn't cause she "smelled death at the pound" cause she acted fearfully while still in the house.

Dogs have been relentlessly bred over thousands of years years, to be sensitive to human moods, and compatible with human needs and wants.

That's not magic powers. That's a highly specialized and highly developed social intelligence.

Apply a similar eugenics program to humans, and you'd end up with humans that blow dogs out of the water on this metric. But at what cost?

 

[PookieBear]

The unfortunate dog knew it was in big trouble because of course it knew what it had done and realised this had been a bad move because dogs are so sensitive to social cues in their 'pack'.

Worth noting the owner also sensed that the dog knew things were bad, because humans too are sensitive to behavioural cues and not because they had some kind of sixth sense either.

I would buy this explanation if pit bulls viewed attacking a trespassing Pomerian as "a bad thing."

They don't! If anything, pit bulls view themselves as heros for "protecting the backyard."

This pit bull wasn't raised in a pack, either.

Another thing. Weeks, if not months, passed between the day of the attack and the day it was executed. In the meantime, it was shuffled between the owner and her son and back. Somehow, the pit bull wasn't agitated at either home...until the execution date came up!

 

[Myriad]

No doubt the humans were completely calm and indifferent about the dog's impending execution, so there's no (non-mysterious) way the dog could have known anything was wrong.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I would buy this explanation if pit bulls viewed attacking a trespassing Pomerian as "a bad thing."

They don't! If anything, pit bulls view themselves as heros for "protecting the backyard."

This pit bull wasn't raised in a pack, either.

Another thing. Weeks, if not months, passed between the day of the attack and the day it was executed. In the meantime, it was shuffled between the owner and her son and back. Somehow, the pit bull wasn't agitated at either home...until the execution date came up!

The dog picked up on the owners state of mind. It's not magic. I didn't suggest that particular dog was raised in a pack. I meant dogs are pack animals, descended from wolves, and their instincts are those of social animals which live in hierarchical groups. They are highly attuned to their standing with their owner.

 

[novaphile]

I've had to put a couple of dogs down and neither of them had the slightest idea what was coming.

They were both, in my arms, blissfully enjoying a cuddle and a scritch when the vet administered the lethal injection.

(And they gently fell asleep, then died.)

 

[arthwollipot]

We are their pack.

 

[PookieBear]

I've had to put a couple of dogs down and neither of them had the slightest idea what was coming.

They were both, in my arms, blissfully enjoying a cuddle and a scritch when the vet administered the lethal injection.

(And they gently fell asleep, then died.)

I assume the vet drugged them beforehand or something?

Either that or they were very weak from old age and cancer. Maybe that's why they didn't move much.

 

[novaphile]

I assume the vet drugged them beforehand or something?

Either that or they were very weak from old age and cancer. Maybe that's why they didn't move much.

Neither of these things are true.

 

[Beerina]

"In fact, ghosts have been caught on camera more often than scientists." -- Cunk on Life

 

[PitPat]

If a house is over about 50 years old, there's a good chance somebody died there. If there's a structural defect in it, then yes.

I see these things in horror movies all the time..."I must inform you, there was a mass family murder here awhile back and still unexplained. It's been on the market for a long time. Sure other families have left within two weeks, and not seen again, but look at these bay windows and sunken living room!"

It's comprised of wood and some other stuff. I'd buy it in a minute if were cheaper than non-murder houses.

 

[PitPat]

Dupe

 

[Axxman300]

If a house is over about 50 years old, there's a good chance somebody died there. If there's a structural defect in it, then yes.

I see these things in horror movies all the time..."I must inform you, there was a mass family murder here awhile back and still unexplained. It's been on the market for a long time. Sure other families have left within two weeks, and not seen again, but look at these bay windows and sunken living room!"

It's comprised of wood and some other stuff. I'd buy it in a minute if were cheaper than non-murder houses.

Haunted buildings are now a business opportunity. People are snapping up abandoned hospitals, sanitariums, funeral parlors, and notorious properties for rentals to ghost hunting groups. I have no problem buying an allegedly haunted house if it was in good condition.

 

[catsmate]

There was a series on SyFy called "Scare Tactics", sort of like "Candid Camera" but the victims are confronted with fake aliens, monsters, ghosts, demons, psycho killers, and other frightening science fiction/horror situations. I kept waiting for someone to start attacking one of the costumed actors.

Yeah. In USAia that seem like asking for trouble.

I live in a house where 5 people died.

A mentally ill man killed his wife here. He also shot his 3-year-old son and 2 of his wife's friends. One of them may have been his wife's drug dealer. He is currently in prison for life.

Later, a different relative died of a heart attack here.


Is this sordid story embarrassing to repeat? Yes.

Do we get any ghostly messages? Of course not.

Did you get a discount on the price?

 

[EHocking]

Haunted buildings are now a business opportunity. People are snapping up abandoned hospitals, sanitariums, funeral parlors, and notorious properties for rentals to ghost hunting groups. I have no problem buying an allegedly haunted house if it was in good condition.

Sooo, would the new owner of any of these types of buildings “put back” the 13th floor in a multi-storey?
It staggers me that there are so many irrational people in the US, that this is still a thing.

 

[Thermal]

Sooo, would the new owner of any of these types of buildings “put back” the 13th floor in a multi-storey?
It staggers me that there are so many irrational people in the US, that this is still a thing.

It's really not. Hotels used to 'skip' the 13th floor to appease their occasional superstitious travelers. Many built now have the 13th floor big and bold, although some still defer to tradition more than superstition and rename it.

 

[EHocking]

it is more bowing to superstition than tradition, IMO.
And still prevalent.
This article from Jan 2023 claims as few as 5% of NY residential condos have a 13th floor and that those apartments actually on a 13th floor are 18% less frequently bought than those on a different floor. Otis lift company (back in 2002) claimed 80-90% of their installations had the 13th floor removed.
Most articles I’ve (quickly, admittedly) googled seem to indicate that the superstition is as prevalent as it ever was.
I found that is a common superstition with travelers on cruise liners, so similarly, many (most?) cruise liner lifts also do not have a 13th level.

(An aside, as an non-USAan we call elevators lifts. I always grin slightly whenever I get into one made by Schindler )

 

[Axxman300]

Sooo, would the new owner of any of these types of buildings “put back” the 13th floor in a multi-storey?
It staggers me that there are so many irrational people in the US, that this is still a thing.

I work in a motel. We have three floor, 51 rooms. Rooms are numbered by floor: 104 - 119 = first floor. No rooms are numbered 13. I wish I could tell you society has evolved beyond the number 13, but never underestimate the ability of the superstitious to flip out over the dumbest things.

 

[Ron Obvious]

I work in a motel. We have three floor, 51 rooms. Rooms are numbered by floor: 104 - 119 = first floor. No rooms are numbered 13. I wish I could tell you society has evolved beyond the number 13, but never underestimate the ability of the superstitious to flip out over the dumbest things.

Agreed, but, from a commercial viewpoint, customers may avoid such room numbers. Or the price will have to be lowered to entice them.

 

[EHocking]

I work in a motel. We have three floor, 51 rooms. Rooms are numbered by floor: 104 - 119 = first floor. No rooms are numbered 13. I wish I could tell you society has evolved beyond the number 13, but never underestimate the ability of the superstitious to flip out over the dumbest things.

Yeah, this can also include street numbers.
And in some Asian countires, it is the number 4 that is their "13"

 

[EHocking]

Agreed, but, from a commercial viewpoint, customers may avoid such room numbers. Or the price will have to be lowered to entice them.

It seems that is pretty much why the practice still prevails.

The city of Vancouver, apparently, has passed planning laws to prohibit the practice on the grounds that it can be confusing to first responders,
e.g., being told that someone on the 14th floor needs assistance (say in a fire situation) and the fire crew going to the wrong floor because they are counting physical floors from outside of the building. No mention on wiki if there is a push by any other sensible city planners to implement this.

Oh, and some non-superstitious people mock the number 14, e.g., the crew of the 13th space shuttle flight included a black cat on the flight patch and landed the shuttle on a Friday the 13th. NASA had changed the numbering system after STS-9, so this flight was officially STS-41C.

 

[PitPat]

It seems that is pretty much why the practice still prevails.

The city of Vancouver, apparently, has passed planning laws to prohibit the practice on the grounds that it can be confusing to first responders,
e.g., being told that someone on the 14th floor needs assistance (say in a fire situation) and the fire crew going to the wrong floor because they are counting physical floors from outside of the building. No mention on wiki if there is a push by any other sensible city planners to implement this.

Oh, and some non-superstitious people mock the number 14, e.g., the crew of the 13th space shuttle flight included a black cat on the flight patch and landed the shuttle on a Friday the 13th. NASA had changed the numbering system after STS-9, so this flight was officially STS-41C.

I walked with an umbrella inside, under a ladder, with a black cat in the way. Yes, it came in threes, and I turned out phine.

 

[Thermal]

it is more bowing to superstition than tradition, IMO.
And still prevalent.
This article from Jan 2023 claims as few as 5% of NY residential condos have a 13th floor ...

It does claim that. Did you look at it? That stat includes mid rises, which by definition, have less than 13 floors (and make up the lions share of NY condo buildings). That's about as foolish a stat as I could imagine.

...those apartments actually on a 13th floor are 18% less frequently bought than those on a different floor....

Check the source for that claim. It's cited by a European realty website, citing Minsk sales specifically. 'Taint "irrational Americans".

...Otis lift company (back in 2002) claimed 80-90% of their installations had the 13th floor removed.

Yes, and they've been removed for generations, ans many still observe that tradition, as I said.

Most articles I’ve (quickly, admittedly) googled seem to indicate that the superstition is as prevalent as it ever was.
I found that is a common superstition with travelers on cruise liners, so similarly, many (most?) cruise liner lifts also do not have a 13th level.

(An aside, as an non-USAan we call elevators lifts. I always grin slightly whenever I get into one made by Schindler )

Heh heh.

If it was a real fear of 13 though, wouldn't it apply to things beyond elevators? You mentioned NYC; there is not only a 13th street (oh, horrors!), but a #13 East 13th street. The zip code is even 10003. Must be a barren lot that no one would touch, right? Nope. $2 million dollar condo, and it ain't for sale.

13 E 13th St, New York, NY 10003 | Zillow

13 E 13th St, New York NY, is a Condo home.It contains 4 bedrooms and 1.5 bathrooms. The Zestimate for this Condo is $2,155,600, which has increased by $313,253 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this Condo is $7,135/mo, which has increased by $7,135/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

 

[Hlafordlaes]

I don't believe in ghosts.

I do recall the house we had in the mountains of Segovia, replete with Tolkien-level spider invasions from nearby pine forests, large, hairy, and difficult to stomp, often moving in large groups; quite unnerving. There, in that home, my wife swore she'd been shoved from behind while ironing, and had frequently felt someone pressing down on her when resting. She claimed to have seen an old women as a ghost, too. I, too, thought I imagined a strange touch one time. All explainable and owing to whatever real causes were in play, physical or psychological, surely.

However, when the furniture movers were just finishing up late one evening as we left for a new home elsewhere, they both came running out into the street claiming an old woman's ghost was haunting the now-empty house, clearly in shock. Don't really have an answer for that.

Anecdotal, good for camp fires.

 

[Axxman300]

I don't believe in ghosts.

I do recall the house we had in the mountains of Segovia, replete with Tolkien-level spider invasions from nearby pine forests, large, hairy, and difficult to stomp, often moving in large groups; quite unnerving. There, in that home, my wife swore she'd been shoved from behind while ironing, and had frequently felt someone pressing down on her when resting. She claimed to have seen an old women as a ghost, too. I, too, thought I imagined a strange touch one time. All explainable and owing to whatever real causes were in play, physical or psychological, surely.

However, when the furniture movers were just finishing up late one evening as we left for a new home elsewhere, they both came running out into the street claiming an old woman's ghost was haunting the now-empty house, clearly in shock. Don't really have an answer for that.

Anecdotal, good for camp fires.

You had me at "Spider Invasion".