They pretty clearly wanted to make sure there was no repetition of the Jeffrey Epstein death. But they didn't necessarily handle it as well as they could have.
Ghislaine Maxwell
- Thread starter Samson
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They pretty clearly wanted to make sure there was no repetition of the Jeffrey Epstein death. But they didn't necessarily handle it as well as they could have.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Answered by Bob001
She could be the undoing of a LOT of well respected people, some of whom would be happy for her to just "go away", and a small number of those might be willing to try to make that happen.
The last sentence answers the one before it.
Seems Maxwell is a serial complainer. This is not surprising since she was, as the saying goes, "born with a silver spoon in her mouth", never having to want for anything, an always free to to exactly what she pleased, when she pleased. Now that is all come to an end through her own criminal behaviour - what is there left for her to do but whinge about her living conditions?
Err, what on earth are you waffling on about?
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Prosecutors ask for hard time:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/m...cutors/ar-AAYLnvc?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Good. I hope she spends a long time, preferably the rest of her miserable life, rotting in a jail cell. She certainly deserves it!
Edited by jimbob:
Quote of and respose to moderated content removed .
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smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
From the victim impact statement of Annie Farmer
Annie Farmer, who told a court that Ghislaine Maxwell gave her a nude massage and groped her breasts at Mr Epstein’s ranch in Sanata Fe, New Mexico when she was 16, said in her victim impact statement that she has "wanted to erase from my mind the crimes that Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein committed against me and pretend they hadn’t happened for a long time".
"It was the type of dark memory that feels safest to keep locked away, and so I did the best I could."
"One of the most painful and ongoing impacts of Maxwell and Epstein’s abuse was a loss of trust in myself, my perceptions, and my instincts," she said, adding: "When predators groom and then abuse or exploit children and other vulnerable people, they are, in a sense, training them to distrust themselves."
"The ripple effects of trauma are undeniable, when one person is abused, many others are harmed."
"Judge Nathan, I hope when you consider the appropriate prison sentence for the role Maxwell played in this sex trafficking operation, you take into account the ongoing suffering of the many women she abused and exploited as we will continue to live with the memories of the ways she harmed us."
"I ask you to bear in mind how Maxwell’s unwillingness to acknowledge her crimes, her lack of remorse, and her repeated lies about her victims created the need for many of us to engage in a long fight for justice that has felt like a black hole sucking in our precious time, energy, and well-being for much too long now."
"These things cannot be replaced."
Annie Farmer, who told a court that Ghislaine Maxwell gave her a nude massage and groped her breasts at Mr Epstein’s ranch in Sanata Fe, New Mexico when she was 16, said in her victim impact statement that she has "wanted to erase from my mind the crimes that Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein committed against me and pretend they hadn’t happened for a long time".
"It was the type of dark memory that feels safest to keep locked away, and so I did the best I could."
"One of the most painful and ongoing impacts of Maxwell and Epstein’s abuse was a loss of trust in myself, my perceptions, and my instincts," she said, adding: "When predators groom and then abuse or exploit children and other vulnerable people, they are, in a sense, training them to distrust themselves."
"The ripple effects of trauma are undeniable, when one person is abused, many others are harmed."
"Judge Nathan, I hope when you consider the appropriate prison sentence for the role Maxwell played in this sex trafficking operation, you take into account the ongoing suffering of the many women she abused and exploited as we will continue to live with the memories of the ways she harmed us."
"I ask you to bear in mind how Maxwell’s unwillingness to acknowledge her crimes, her lack of remorse, and her repeated lies about her victims created the need for many of us to engage in a long fight for justice that has felt like a black hole sucking in our precious time, energy, and well-being for much too long now."
"These things cannot be replaced."
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smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
From the victim impact statement of Virginia Giuffre
"I want to be clear about one thing: without question, Jeffrey Epstein was a terrible paedophile. But I never would have met Jeffrey Epstein if not for you. For me, and for so many others, you opened the door to hell."
"And then, Ghislaine, like a wolf in sheep’s clothing, you used your femininity to betray us, and you led us all through it". She added - that crossing paths with Maxwell "changed the course of our lives forever".
"Ghislaine, the pain you have caused me is almost indescribable. Because of your choices and the world you brought me into, I don’t sleep. Nightmares wake me at all hours"
She closed by saying she believes that Maxwell deserves "to spend the rest of your life in a jail cell", comparing it to how “you trapped your victims”.
"My promise to you is as follows: As long as you and perpetrators like you continue to prey upon the vulnerable, I will not stop standing up and speaking out."
"I want to be clear about one thing: without question, Jeffrey Epstein was a terrible paedophile. But I never would have met Jeffrey Epstein if not for you. For me, and for so many others, you opened the door to hell."
"And then, Ghislaine, like a wolf in sheep’s clothing, you used your femininity to betray us, and you led us all through it". She added - that crossing paths with Maxwell "changed the course of our lives forever".
"Ghislaine, the pain you have caused me is almost indescribable. Because of your choices and the world you brought me into, I don’t sleep. Nightmares wake me at all hours"
She closed by saying she believes that Maxwell deserves "to spend the rest of your life in a jail cell", comparing it to how “you trapped your victims”.
"My promise to you is as follows: As long as you and perpetrators like you continue to prey upon the vulnerable, I will not stop standing up and speaking out."
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
20 years and a US$750,000 fine
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ing-latest-news-jeffrey-epstein-b2110869.html
She has gotten off lightly IMO. She at least has a chance of not dying in prison.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ing-latest-news-jeffrey-epstein-b2110869.html
In handing down the sentence in Manhattan Federal Court on Tuesday, Judge Alison Nathan called Maxwell’s conduct “heinous and predatory” and dismissed the assertion that she cannot afford fines.
A shackled Maxwell was joined in court by members of her family as well as several of her victims, who delivered impact statements before the sentence was read.
Maxwell also addressed the court, saying that meeting Epstein was “the biggest regret of my life” and telling victims: “I hope my conviction and harsh incarceration brings you peace and finality.”
A shackled Maxwell was joined in court by members of her family as well as several of her victims, who delivered impact statements before the sentence was read.
Maxwell also addressed the court, saying that meeting Epstein was “the biggest regret of my life” and telling victims: “I hope my conviction and harsh incarceration brings you peace and finality.”
She has gotten off lightly IMO. She at least has a chance of not dying in prison.
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No parole in federal prison. She can earn good time for good behavior, but she'll likely be inside for at least 16 years or so.
https://howtojustice.org/getting-released-from-prison/parole/can-you-get-parole-in-federal-prison/
That's the thing. Maxwell didn't only facilitate the sexual abuse - she also instigated some of it.
She got off lightly - with reference to Bob001's information/observation, I only hope her sense of entitlement is so great that she doesn't manage to get off for good behaviour.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Well, from her point of view, she might find Club Fed more acceptable than the Brooklyn Metropolitan Detention Center.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Whilst I agree Maxwell got what she deserved, I am uncomfortable by the US style of tiral-by-public opinion (cf Depp vs Heard). Judge Nathan didn't seem impartial and seemed to be anti-Maxwell from the start. A judge is supposed to reserve judgment until all of the evidence is heard. In addition, in the UK, I doubt she would have got more than nine years.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Depp vs Heard was a civil trial
United States v Maxwell was a criminal trial
Different reasons, different rules, different procedures and so not comparable.
You have evidence of this lack of impartiality?
Please Note: She got ten years less than the lower end of what the prosecutors were asking for, and she got a lot less than the maximum allowable under the law.
Let me remind you..
18 USC § 1591 Sex trafficking of children or by force, fraud, or coercion
(b) The punishment for an offense under subsection (a) is—
(1) if the offense was effected by force, fraud, or coercion or if the person transported had not attained the age of 14 years at the time of such offense, by a fine under this title or imprisonment for any term of years or for life, or both; or
(2) if the offense was not so effected, and the person transported had attained the age of 14 years but had not attained the age of 18 years at the time of such offense, by a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than 20 years, or both.
(b) The punishment for an offense under subsection (a) is—
(1) if the offense was effected by force, fraud, or coercion or if the person transported had not attained the age of 14 years at the time of such offense, by a fine under this title or imprisonment for any term of years or for life, or both; or
(2) if the offense was not so effected, and the person transported had attained the age of 14 years but had not attained the age of 18 years at the time of such offense, by a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than 20 years, or both.
She could have gone to the slammer for life!
You have evidence that she did not reserve judgment until all of the evidence was heard?
You say that like its a good thing.
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You understand that she was convicted by a jury, not the judge, right? You can be sure that any evidence of impartiality would be used by the defense as grounds for appeal. And why should we care that somewhere else she would get a relative slap on the wrist for decades of predation and assault on girls and young women?
Youngest who testified was 14.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/woman-maxwell-abused-age-14-81612630
I still find it bizarre that the prime mover in recruitment (and who was paid for recruiting) has not faced justice. Being a teenager is not normally grounds for not being tried for a crime, it is a defence to be presented at the trial.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
^ This is just victim-blaming whataboutism., and it is pathetic.
Giuffre was deceived coerced by a manipulative, predatory bitch into what she did. The predatory bitch however, did what she did voluntarily and willingly.
Besides, if you want to catch sex traffickers, charging their victims is a really, really stupid thing to do - its not exactly going to encourage other victims to come forward, is it?
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She was an abused and manipulated minor, hardly a "prime mover" by any rational standard.
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Giuffre is a piece of work for sure thank you for reminding us all.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Sad to see you joining the victim-blaming crowd.
I never rejoice in suffering by those who hardly knew which Shakespearian tragedy they were part of.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Flawed characters.Err, what?
Ghislaine Maxwell.
Virginia Giuffre.
Planigale sees nuance and why would we resile from discussing accuser and accused in the broad sweep of character flaws.
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Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
I disagree with either Maxwell or Giuffre being called a 'bitch'. I can see the story on both sides. Whilst I have every sympathy with Giuffre and Ransome, and the other victims, there seems to lack balance in who is to blame for the latter's suffering. There is no doubt they have suffered enormously. However, Giuffre was being trafficked out to prostitution by her sixty-something pervert boyfriend years before she crossed paths with Epstein and Maxwell. Giuffre, contrary to belief was nearer 17 when she met the pair and became employed as Epstein's personal masseuse and recruiter of other young women, from local high schools. Yes, Maxwell was clearly part of a conspiracy to provide prostitutes for rich men in a sophisticated prostitution ring but it takes more than one person to have a conspiracy. I get that Ransome ended up in hopsital after trying to kill herself. However, I am not seeing that it is Maxwell who si 100% responsible for this. Yes, she was calculating, sly and wicked. However, she may have been avictim of Epstein, too. The evidence for this is that after the pair split in 2004, Maxwell's pimping activities ceased.
I think you are trying to say....
Just kidding.
These sins will never be resolved by vilifying Maxwell and sanctifying Giuffre.
Deconstructing the pecadilloes of the rich and famous gets in the way of dealing with those who truly suffer in miserable jurisdictions that are everywhere except America.
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smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Bollocks I say! There is NO nuance in the sexual exploitation of children, and certainly not when such exploitation is carried out by the rich and powerful. Of course, victim-blamers and apologists for Maxwell would like people to believe there is. They want people to believe that this whole thing is fraught with doubt and grey areas, and that Maxwell was somehow a victim too. Its just a load of BS, and I'm not buying it - I'm not fooled for a moment.
There are no grey areas here. Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein were partners, co-conspirators in a loathsome criminal enterprise to procure and groom under-aged girls for sex, and to sell those girls' sexual services to the pair's own rich and powerful friends, as well as to satisfy their own vile sexual proclivities for young girls. Maxwell is NOT a victim. She walked into this with her eyes wide open, knowing EXACTLY who and what Jefferey Epstein was, and what he was doing, yet she did what she did voluntarily and knowing it was a criminal offense of the absolute worst kind.
As for Virginia Giuffre - she would not have done any of the the things she has been accused of doing later, if she had not first met Maxwell as a 15/16 year old, and been coerced, manipulated, groomed and then sex-trafficked to Maxwell and Epstein's friends (such as Prince Andrew).
And you know, what really ***** me off? It is that Maxwell has shown utterly no remorse for what she has done - no apology to the dozens (maybe more) of women whose lives she and Epstein so badly damaged by their actions. The sole extent of her comments was some snarky remark she made.... "To you, all the victims … I am sorry for the pain that you experienced. I hope my conviction and harsh incarceration brings you closure"...
Did you note the total lack of acknowledgement of her own culpability in inflicting that pain on those women? No remorse there!
Did you note in that last sentence that she referred to her sentence as "harsh"? The only person she is sorry for is herself, for being caught!
One doesn't spell "underage rapes" like that.
If you said that Maxwell wasn't the only guilty party, I'd agree. And Maxwell's clients have so far got away with it. But that doesn't make her innocent. Or undeserving of being incarcerated for the rest of her life (which she probably won't be). She got off lightly.
Not innocent but a bit player in a terrible universe of sin, I have great difficulty separating her way of controlling the fates of young women from the methods constructed by pillars of society.
LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
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Who's claiming that Maxwell was ever "100% responsible" for what went on? And why do you even think this is relevant to the safety/justness of her conviction? If three men kick a vagrant to death, each of those three can safely be convicted of murder, even though it's clearly arguable that none of the three is "100% responsible" for the vagrant's death.
And what difference does it make to Maxwell's criminal culpability if prior criminal offences were committed against the same victim(s) by others? In your view, does that somehow mitigate - or even obviate - Maxwell's own guilt??
Your attempted arguments here are baffling, ill-judged, and entirely incorrect in law and ethics.
But why not address Planigale's inconvenient truth?
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
No way was she just a "bit player"!! Maxwell was a fully participating, willing co-conspirator who knew exactly what she was doing, and was doing it for her own personal and financial benefit.
No she wasn't a bit player. She was a key accomplice of Epstein.
A bit player whose universe collided with Clinton etc. It is incomprehensible that she is the sole fall girl in this sordid narrative.
So was Giuffre also criminal as Planigale alleges?
timhau
NWO Litter Technician
That level of misunderstanding of the concept of 'maturity' has to be intentional. I can find no explanation for that that isn't ugly.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
I expect Maxwell has been advised by her counsel not to admit guilt as it is almost certain she will appeal. Expressing remorse - which of course, being an overprivileged self-entitled snob she doesn't feel anyway - would be tantamount to accepting liability.
In any case, it is clear she doesn't feel remorse so at least she is being honest here!
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
No. The only thing that is "incomprehensible" is your (and other Maxwell apologists') inability to understand the difference between a "victim" and a "perpetrator" of sexual violence.
Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell are PERPETRATORS of sexual violence!
Virginia Giuffre, Annie Farmer, Sarah Ransome, Elizabeth Stein, Jane, Kate and Carolyn are just some of their VICTIMS!
wasapi
Penultimate Amazing
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This is such a well written post. (According to Samson everyone is a victim, and
all law enforcement is corrupt down to planting evidence and so on).
catsmate
No longer the 1
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More of a misogynist than an apologist, IMO.