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George Santos charged with defrauding campaign donors

Norman Alexander said:
Avoiding the question. And the answer is: Yes they are elected. According to you. The voters have spoken, so in that person goes. Regardless of any flaws and factual evidence they qualify.

In fact, in the USA, dead people have been elected a few times. Now, I would have thought that being dead, a non-person if you will, disqualifies you from standing for and being elected to any government position. If you happen to be in an elected government position and die, you certainly cease to be in it any longer - it goes vacant. So it is passing strange that the very same condition that will automatically get you OUT of an elected position is no barrier to getting you IN to that same position. Not exactly logical nor sensible, don't you agree?

So now let's consider a situation closer to reality: A candidate in a lunatic asylum who is criminally insane. Let's check if they can stand for office in the USA: Citizen? Tick. Adult? Tick. ...and that's about it! Some feeble-minded fascist feces-flinger is considered "qualified" to stand for elected office. A good idea, in your view, that nobody gets told? Want them in your parliament? Perhaps if their true "situation" was known about beforehand then their prospects of success might change...?

By the way, the Burke quote is about AFTER they are elected, not before. It's not the subject of my argument.
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Most of the dead people who were elected died between election day and when they would have taken office.
 
dudalb said:
Most of the dead people who were elected died between election day and when they would have taken office.
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...most?? And the rest?

So, being dead, shouldn't that disqualify you from taking office? That election becomes null and void, and needs to be run again with qualifying candidates? Or does the dead person "take their seat"??:eek:

Should not also being a criminal? Being a criminal certainly prevents you from voting. And I understand the "general rule" is if you can't vote then you can't stand for office.
 
Norman Alexander said:
...most?? And the rest?

So, being dead, shouldn't that disqualify you from taking office? That election becomes null and void, and needs to be run again with qualifying candidates? Or does the dead person "take their seat"??:eek:

Should not also being a criminal? Being a criminal certainly prevents you from voting. And I understand the "general rule" is if you can't vote then you can't stand for office.
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This one is a big 'depends' depending on the type of seat and the jurisdiction, sometimes the party just appoints a replacement.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Morally, logically, and philosophically you are correct.

Practically it would turn into politicians staying in "campaign" mode constantly, even more so then they already do.

At a certain point politicians have to be able to stop politic-ing and just do their actual jobs.

Also politicians have to be able to make unpopular decisions some times.
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You balance those issues by making a recall difficult to do.

The way I see it, 'campaign mode' would be closer to doing what they say they are going to do—IOW less fake campaign promises.
 
novaphile said:
This one is a big 'depends' depending on the type of seat and the jurisdiction, sometimes the party just appoints a replacement.
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Then the dead person doesn't "take their seat". Their election is void. That's the point. The reason they don't get seated is everyone knows they are friggin' dead! Likewise, everyone should know the truth about candidates before their election.

Same with Santos. It appears a distinct possibility that his election is void on quite a number of grounds. For example, as he is such a prolific liar, is his US citizenship assured? Anyone actually check? I wasn't joking previously when I said I should run for US congress. If a bog-basic check like assuring valid citizenship was never done for Santos, I'm gonna be good to go! And so is every two-bit international crook (I'm only a one-bit version) and charmless, scruple-free lobbyist. Heck, why not just give the Saudis a couple of seats gratis!
 
The ex-boyfriend:
"What he always looked for was fame and power. That's all he cared about. ... And he got the thing of the lies and he got the power that he's in Congress now."


He should fit right in ...
 
dudalb said:
Most of the dead people who were elected died between election day and when they would have taken office.
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[aside]
One of those was Apollo 13 astronaut Jack Swigert; elected to the House from Colorado's 6th district in November 1982, but died from respiratory failure related to his cancer on December 27, seven days before the beginning of his congressional term.
 
dann said:
The ex-boyfriend:
"What he always looked for was fame and power. That's all he cared about. ... And he got the thing of the lies and he got the power that he's in Congress now."


He should fit right in ...
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Trump finally has the son he always wanted.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Inside Santos' head:

[IMGw=500]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4d/5d/13/4d5d13fbd1caf26529d1bcc3b4851de2.jpg[/IMGw]
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Oh my God. It's full of squirrels.
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Weirdly enough, the forum software didn't allow the above.

It kept saying:

"The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 2 characters."
 
novaphile said:
Weirdly enough, the forum software didn't allow the above.

It kept saying:

"The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 2 characters."
Click to expand...

It doesn’t count characters inside of quote blocks as part of your message.
 
dudalb said:
Most of the dead people who were elected died between election day and when they would have taken office.
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We live in a post-factual and post-shame world.

Surely I can’t be alone in thinking that before 2027 someone is going to try to
pull a Congressional “Weekend at Bernie’s”
 
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Ladewig said:
We live in a post-factual and post-shame world.

Surely I can’t be alone in thinking that before 2027 someone is going to try to pull a Congressional “Weekend at Bernie’s”
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That was pretty much where my train of argument was heading many posts above. If even being dead doesn't trigger a new election for a seat, then it's only a matter of time that some party is going to elect a whole graveyard of long-mouldering corpses to office and use their "votes by proxy" so that only a handful of party leaders run the whole show.

What needs to be federally mandated is that if any candidate, including before an election, becomes ineligible to stand then either their candidacy is terminated, or they immediately lose their seat and an by-election is required to fill it again. Ineligibility will include any conditions where that person is no longer permitted to vote in their state, such as serving a criminal sentence, being a foreigner, being dead, etc.
 
Stacyhs said:
Georgie claimed in a Brazilian podcast that he was the victim of an assassination attempt, a mugging, and that his home in Florida was vandalized because he's a Republican. None of it has been confirmed by any evidence:

Before asking any questions, they weren’t Black, they were even white, but they robbed me, took my briefcase, took my shoes and my watch.​
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“They were even white.”

So George, do bigotry much?
 
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Norman Alexander said:
That was pretty much where my train of argument was heading many posts above. If even being dead doesn't trigger a new election for a seat, then it's only a matter of time that some party is going to elect a whole graveyard of long-mouldering corpses to office and use their "votes by proxy" so that only a handful of party leaders run the whole show.

What needs to be federally mandated is that if any candidate, including before an election, becomes ineligible to stand then either their candidacy is terminated, or they immediately lose their seat and an by-election is required to fill it again. Ineligibility will include any conditions where that person is no longer permitted to vote in their state, such as serving a criminal sentence, being a foreigner, being dead, etc.
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From the few cases I've seen, it's not that their seats are held for their term by proxy, but that the party of the deceased is allowed to appoint a replacement candidate. But we don't vote for party, oh no, we vote for people!
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
You balance those issues by making a recall difficult to do.

The way I see it, 'campaign mode' would be closer to doing what they say they are going to do—IOW less fake campaign promises.
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Most electors don't have a clue what the real issues are and how they can be solved. Most want easy solutions to complex problems they won't take the time to learn about - or actually do not have the ability to understand due to a lack of education or experience.
The only way to motivate those voters to vote for you is to offer them easily understandable quick fix solutions that play to their inherent biases.
In other words - the best way to lose an election is to tell the truth.
 
Silly Green Monkey said:
From the few cases I've seen, it's not that their seats are held for their term by proxy, but that the party of the deceased is allowed to appoint a replacement candidate. But we don't vote for party, oh no, we vote for people!
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No. If a member of the House leaves office during a term, the seat is vacant until a special election is held in the district.

Vacancies in the House of Representatives typically take far longer to fill. The Constitution requires that member of the House be replaced only by an election held in the congressional district of the former representative.

"When vacancies happen in the Representation from any State, the Executive Authority thereof shall issue Writs of Election to fill such Vacancies." -- Article I, Section 2, Clause 4 of the U.S. Constitution

During the first two-year session of a Congress, all states, territories, and the District of Columbia are required by current federal law to hold special elections to fill any vacant House seat. However, during the second session of a Congress, procedures often vary depending on the amount of time between the date the vacancy occurs and the date of the next general election. For example, under Section 8 of Title 2, United States Code, a state’s governor can hold a special election at any time in extraordinary circumstances, such as a crisis resulting in the number of vacancies in the House exceeding 100 of the 435 seats.

According to the U.S. Constitution and state law, the governor of the state calls for a special election to replace the vacant House seat. The full election cycle must be followed including political party nominating processes, primary elections and a general election, all held in the congressional district involved. The entire process often takes as long as from three to six months.

While a House seat is vacant, the office of the former representative remains open, its staff operating under the supervision of the Clerk of the House of Representatives. The people of the affected congressional district do not have voting representation in the House during the vacancy period. They can, however, continue to contact former representative's interim office for assistance with a limited range of services as listed below by the Clerk of the House.
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https://www.thoughtco.com/how-vacancies-in-congress-are-filled-3322322#toc-vacancies-in-the-house
 
Ladewig said:
We live in a post-factual and post-shame world.

Surely I can’t be alone in thinking that before 2027 someone is going to try to
pull a Congressional “Weekend at Bernie’s”
Click to expand...

That was funny :)

A more likely scenario is a person convicted of a felony, but hasn't had their civil rights restored, could be elected.
 
Stacyhs said:
Georgie claimed in a Brazilian podcast that he was the victim of an assassination attempt, a mugging, and that his home in Florida was vandalized because he's a Republican. None of it has been confirmed by any evidence:
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I believe it! People should hate him, he's a piece of **** and a Republican. What's not to believe? Brazilians are no strangers to corrupt politicians by any stretch. :D
 
George's donors don't exist.
The Regor and Berger contributions are among more than a dozen major donations to the 2020 Santos campaign for which the name or the address of the donor cannot be confirmed, a Mother Jones investigation found. A separate $2,800 donation was attributed in Santos’ reports filed with the Federal Election Commission to a friend of Santos who says he did not give the money.

Under federal campaign finance law, it is illegal to donate money using a false name or the name of someone else. “It’s called a contribution in the name of another,” says Saurav Ghosh, the director for federal campaign finance reform at the Campaign Legal Center, a nonpartisan watchdog group. “It’s something that is explicitly prohibited under federal law.”
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https://www.motherjones.com/politic...santos-2020-campaign-many-dont-seem-to-exist/
 
Santos has removed himself from all committee assignments.

I guess he hears the bell tolling.
 
smartcooky said:
[aside]
One of those was Apollo 13 astronaut Jack Swigert; elected to the House from Colorado's 6th district in November 1982, but died from respiratory failure related to his cancer on December 27, seven days before the beginning of his congressional term.
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before people ask, he was played by Kevin Bacon in the movie.
 
people with no shame

“The thing we have to be careful of, and I always caution myself on this, and I ran into this trouble with Trump, is we cannot mistake absurdity for lack of danger, because it takes people with no shame to do shameful things,” Stewart said on the latest episode of his podcast, “The Problem With Jon Stewart.”
“In absurdity is where the real danger always is,” he added. Huffpost
 
Chris_Halkides said:
“The thing we have to be careful of, and I always caution myself on this, and I ran into this trouble with Trump, is we cannot mistake absurdity for lack of danger, because it takes people with no shame to do shameful things,” Stewart said on the latest episode of his podcast, “The Problem With Jon Stewart.”
“In absurdity is where the real danger always is,” he added. Huffpost
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In 2016, I thought that there was no way this country would vote a clown like Trump into the WH. He was just such a blatant liar and narcissist. Did I ever get a dose of reality.
 
Stacyhs said:
In 2016, I thought that there was no way this country would vote a clown like Trump into the WH. He was just such a blatant liar and narcissist. Did I ever get a dose of reality.
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I thought in 2008 the Republicans would Reject the Libertarian Constitutionalist crazies, I didn't change my mind on that until one of them tried putting a 6 inch Buck Hunting Knife Blade in my back.
Be glad it was just the election of the Grifting King that Woke you up.
 
Norman Alexander said:
I don't think his fellow GOP members can offer or guarantee him that. Charges would appear to be up to the ... DoJ? Electoral Commission (whatever it is called in the USA)?
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Someone with deal making authority for the feds would have to sign off on it, and it would be wise for Santos to try to bring the New York authorities in the room as well. Also any other US jurisdiction he's been effing around in.
 
Norman Alexander said:
I don't think his fellow GOP members can offer or guarantee him that. Charges would appear to be up to the ... DoJ? Electoral Commission (whatever it is called in the USA)?
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Actually, he is in trouble with the New York State Election Commision..and it;s them he will be talking to.
 
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