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[Continuation] General UK Politics V Suella Strikes Back

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Mojo said:
What evidence caused you to form this opinion?
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I gave my reasoning (please refer back).

As you know, I did not agree with the timing of the Pro-Palestinian March (see earlier reasoning). However, that did not mean that I approved of the incitement by Suella Braverman and the tabloids, together with the hypocrisy of having encouraged angry fightback then pretended to be outraged by the violence they themselves had stirred up. Surprise, surprise, up popped Irishman 'Tommy Robinson', said to have become a millionaire via his lucrative far right enterprises to provide the required 'Eng-er-land' hooligans, only to promptly piss off in a taxi when informed that riot police were on their way. <fx Brummie accent> Yes mate. Then there is the despicable false reasoning of Prime Minister Rish! Sunk drawing a disproportionate stated conclusion that the violence on both sides were of the same mettle, as though 126 arrested out of 800,000 was comparable with 92 out of a few hundred.

But no, you are right, Mojo. I am wrong.

If some young insolent pup is going to stick out their foot and trip up a gallant war hero in a purple beret whilst he is selling poppies...swinging on the gate and eating cheese and onion crisps...whilst our war hero was landing with his parachute at Arnhem in Operation Market Garden or Overlord at Normandy in 1944...<fx pause to go purple with rage> ...I say, OI NO-OWWWW!!! Have some respect! PROTECT OUR VETERANS <fx burst blood vessels collapses in apoplexy>.




Bloody bastards.
 
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Vixen said:
I gave my reasoning (please refer back).
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I did. Your reasoning was based on the false premise that the word "veteran" exclusively refers to those who fought in WWII.

As you know, I did not agree with the timing of the Pro-Palestinian March (see earlier reasoning). However, that did not mean that I approved of the incitement by Suella Braverman and the tabloids, together with the hypocrisy of having encouraged angry fightback then pretended to be outraged by the violence they themselves had stirred up. Surprise, surprise, up popped Irishman 'Tommy Robinson', said to have become a millionaire via his lucrative far right enterprises to provide the required 'Eng-er-land' hooligans, only to promptly piss off in a taxi when informed that riot police were on their way. <fx Brummie accent> Yes mate. Then there is the despicable false reasoning of Prime Minister Rish! Sunk drawing a disproportionate stated conclusion that the violence on both sides were of the same mettle, as though 126 arrested out of 800,000 was comparable with 92 out of a few hundred.
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None of that explains why you thought the Sun was portraying the poppy seller as a WWII veteran.

But no, you are right, Mojo. I am wrong.

If some young insolent pup is going to stick out their foot and trip up a gallant war hero in a purple beret whilst he is selling poppies...swinging on the gate and eating crisps...whilst our war here was landing with his parachute at Arnhem in Operation Market Garden or Overlord at Normandy in 1944...<fx pause to go purple with rage> ...I say, OI NO-OWWWW!!! Have some respect! PROTECT OUR VETERANS <fx burst blood vessels collapses in apoplexy>.
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Did the Sun story say that he had parachuted into Arnhem or was involved in Operation Market Garden or Operation Overlord?

If the Sun story actually said he was a WWII veteran, why didn't you just say so instead of trying to justify your misunderstanding by claiming that "veteran" is synonymous with "WWII veteran"?
 
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Mojo said:
I did. Your reasoning was based on the false premise that the word "veteran" exclusively refers to those who fought in WWII.




None of that explains why you thought the Sun was portraying the poppy seller as a WWII veteran.




Did the Sun story say that he had parachuted into Arnhem or was involved in Operation Market Garden or Operation Overlord?

If the Sun story actually said he was a WWII veteran, why didn't you just say so instead of trying to justify your misunderstanding by claiming that "veteran" is synonymous with "WWII veteran"?
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Rubbish. Darat called me a moron and zooterkin used the sexist terminology 'wittering' because they either wittingly or unwittingly, failed to understand the context of my post was the SUN newspaper article, frothing at the mouth and demanding protection for this 78-year-old beret-wearing poppy seller. Why do you think it made so much about his OLD AGE and assumed frailty, pictured in his poxy beret and army surplus gear, other than to make its readers assume this old guy was an elite war hero?

The SUN must have known all along that the Parachute Regiment/Signallers 78-year-old veteran's story was not verified as there was a journalist with him at the time and this accredited journalist stated clearly that there was no attack whilst he was with him. You can read Jim Orr's account here:

https://x.com/MrJimOrr/status/1722285996778443003?s=20

"Jim Orr
@MrJimOrr
·
Nov 8
A short thread on Jim Henderson, the veteran who was reportedly assaulted by anti-war/Pro-Palestine protesters at Waverley station on Saturday 4th November. In the photo below, Jim (purple beret) can be seen standing next to me (black baseball cap with a bright red brim). 1/8

Post
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Conversation
Jim Orr
@MrJimOrr

Jim Orr
@MrJimOrr
I was right there while the march arrived and stayed till Mr Henderson and his colleagues packed up and left which I’d guess was about 15 minutes later. There was no trouble. Some protesters held a huge Free Palestine banner in front of Mr Henderson’s table. 2/8

<snip>

According to STV, Mr Henderson later reported that he had been assaulted as he was packing up to leave. https://news.stv.tv/east-central/ve...lestinian-demonstration-at-edinburgh-waverley 5/8

<snip>


Jim Orr
@MrJimOrr
·
Nov 8
But that’s not consistent with the video (which is freely available to anyone) I posted at the time. In it, the group can clearly be seen packing up with lots of space. The crowd is clearly well behaved and focussed only on the Gaza bombing protest. 6/8
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So carry on pretending the SUN were referring to all ex-armed forces personnel.


I will continue to stand by my opinion.


End of.
 
Vixen said:
Rubbish. Darat called me a moron and zooterkin used the sexist terminology 'wittering' because they either wittingly or unwittingly, failed to understand the context of my post was the SUN newspaper article, frothing at the mouth and demanding protection for this 78-year-old beret-wearing poppy seller. Why do you think it made so much about his OLD AGE and assumed frailty, pictured in his poxy beret and army surplus gear, other than to make its readers assume this old guy was an elite war hero?

The SUN must have known all along that the Parachute Regiment/Signallers 78-year-old veteran's story was not verified as there was a journalist with him at the time and this accredited journalist stated clearly that there was no attack whilst he was with him. You can read Jim Orr's account here:

https://x.com/MrJimOrr/status/1722285996778443003?s=20



So carry on pretending the SUN were referring to all ex-armed forces personnel.


I will continue to stand by my opinion.


End of.
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It's not sexist. Anybody can witter.
 
Do stop lying, Vixen.
Vixen said:
Rubbish. Darat called me a moron
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No, he didn't.
and zooterkin used the sexist terminology 'wittering'
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No, it isn't.

because they either wittingly or unwittingly, failed to understand the context of my post was the SUN newspaper article, frothing at the mouth and demanding protection for this 78-year-old beret-wearing poppy seller. Why do you think it made so much about his OLD AGE and assumed frailty, pictured in his poxy beret and army surplus gear, other than to make its readers assume this old guy was an elite war hero?
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Maybe simply because 78 is actually quite old? I can't explain why you should have leapt to the conclusion he was meant to be an elite war hero (where did that come from?).
The SUN must have known all along that the Parachute Regiment/Signallers 78-year-old veteran's story was not verified as there was a journalist with him at the time and this accredited journalist stated clearly that there was no attack whilst he was with him.
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Whether the report of an attack was accurate has no bearing on your assertion that a veteran must have been in WWII.
 
Vixen said:
Rubbish. Darat called me a moron...
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He didn't.

...and zooterkin used the sexist terminology 'wittering'...
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Porkie. It isn't, and this has already been pointed out to you.

...because they either wittingly or unwittingly, failed to understand the context of my post was the SUN newspaper article, frothing at the mouth and demanding protection for this 78-year-old beret-wearing poppy seller. Why do you think it made so much about his OLD AGE and assumed frailty, pictured in his poxy beret and army surplus gear, other than to make its readers assume this old guy was an elite war hero?

The SUN must have known all along that the Parachute Regiment/Signallers 78-year-old veteran's story was not verified as there was a journalist with him at the time and this accredited journalist stated clearly that there was no attack whilst he was with him. You can read Jim Orr's account here:

https://x.com/MrJimOrr/status/1722285996778443003?s=20



So carry on pretending the SUN were referring to all ex-armed forces personnel.


I will continue to stand by my opinion.


End of.
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Did the Sun story say he was a WWII veteran? Nothing you have posted here supports that.
 
zooterkin said:
Do stop lying, Vixen.

No, he didn't.

No, it isn't.


Maybe simply because 78 is actually quite old? I can't explain why you should have leapt to the conclusion he was meant to be an elite war hero (where did that come from?).

Whether the report of an attack was accurate has no bearing on your assertion that a veteran must have been in WWII.
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The term 'Veteran' is not a protected title (such as 'Police Officer', for example). So, therefore you DO have to look at context. I explained my reference to context earlier so shan't repeat it.
 
Vixen said:
The term 'Veteran' is not a protected title (such as 'Police Officer', for example).
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Indeed, so its use is not restricted to WWII veterans.

So, therefore you DO have to look at context. I explained my reference to context earlier so shan't repeat it.
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Did the context include a statement that he was a WWII veteran?
 
Vixen said:
The term 'Veteran' is not a protected title (such as 'Police Officer', for example). So, therefore you DO have to look at context. I explained my reference to context earlier so shan't repeat it.
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He is a veteran. Just not a world war 2 veteran.

ETA: Provide evidence of darat calling you a moron and evidence of wittering being sexist, or indeed genderen at all. Hint, he didn't and it isn't, you're just lying to try to shame the people pointing out your errors again.
 
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Vixen said:
The term 'Veteran' is not a protected title (such as 'Police Officer', for example). So, therefore you DO have to look at context. I explained my reference to context earlier so shan't repeat it.
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The context being anyone that has served in H.M. Forces.



I think we've flogged this enough now.

Time to let it go folks.
 
Mojo said:
Indeed, so its use is not restricted to WWII veterans.




Did the context include a statement that he was a WWII veteran?
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For crying out loud, the whole story was fake. Without the freaking real-life strawman in his Parachute Regiment* outfit telling fibs about being kicked and punched, THERE WAS NO STORY. It was just an excuse to wind up the masses.


Prime minister Rishi Sunak even intervened. He told the Sun: “I am appalled that some poppy sellers – many veterans who are the heart of our collective remembrance each year – have experienced intimidation and abuses when volunteering at train stations.”

The British Transport Police criticised “misleading” information in the media, and said there was no evidence of poppy sellers being targeted.

The Royal British Legion said there was no shortage of poppy sellers, with numbers up on last year, and poppy sales at all mainline stations. It said there had been no increase in reports about sellers being intimidated, abused or punched, and no volunteer had been asked by the charity to wear a body camera for their protection.
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/11/police-misleading-reports-attacks-on-poppy-sellers

So he could just as well identify as a cat as a para. But carry on. 'The SUN was right'.

*If this guy really was a Signaller who did periodical stints with the Parachute Regiment, claiming to have served in 'the troubles' in Northern Ireland, then he was likely involved the 1971 Ballymurphy massacre of unarmed civilian demonstrators. Yes, comparisons are odious, and there is no doubt those who served in NI were immensely courageous in the face of hidden dangers, but it is arguable that this service was of the same heroic magnitude as those who died in the muddy trenches of the Somme, alone and far away from home.
 
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Vixen said:
*If this guy really was a Signaller who did periodical stints with the Parachute Regiment, claiming to have served in 'the troubles' in Northern Ireland, then he was likely involved the 1971 Ballymurphy massacre of unarmed civilian demonstrators. Yes, comparisons are odious, and there is no doubt those who served in NI were immensely courageous in the face of hidden dangers, but it is arguable that this service was of the same heroic magnitude as those who died in the muddy trenches of the Somme, alone and far away from home.
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They wouldn't fall within your definition of "veteran" either.
 
Vixen said:
*If this guy really was a Signaller who did periodical stints with the Parachute Regiment, claiming to have served in 'the troubles' in Northern Ireland, then he was likely involved the 1971 Ballymurphy massacre of unarmed civilian demonstrators. Yes, comparisons are odious, and there is no doubt those who served in NI were immensely courageous in the face of hidden dangers, but it is arguable that this service was of the same heroic magnitude as those who died in the muddy trenches of the Somme, alone and far away from home.
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What bollocks you spout.

He would have been attached to the Air Assault Brigade, he was not part of the Parachute Regiment and wouldn't have served anywhere with them.
 
Andy_Ross said:
GB News official verdict from Darren Grimes on the Saturday At 5 news show. is that

"Suella Braverman must have had her crystal ball polished to perfection because she predicted the chaos we've seen unfold"

Apparently she warned us about two-tier policing and the pro-Palestine protests taking place on Armistice Day.
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There was no chaos. There were some minor disturbances, a small amount of arrests, a few police were injured and there was a lot of shouting. That is not chaos.
 
Nessie said:
There was no chaos. There were some minor disturbances, a small amount of arrests, a few police were injured and there was a lot of shouting. That is not chaos.
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If that constituted chaos and serious disorder then every football match in the UK should played in an empty stadium because the risk there dwarfs that at the march.
 
Good video by Sangita Myska on LBC







Absolutely evisceration of Braverman
 
Andy_Ross said:
<snip invective>

He would have been attached to the Air Assault Brigade, he was not part of the Parachute Regiment and wouldn't have served anywhere with them.
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Citation? The 16 unit Air Assault Brigade was formed in 1999, when Henderson would have been 53.

He claims to have served in Northern Ireland 'during the troubles' and this was from 1969 - 1998. If he had any connection to the Parachute Regiment as he claims, then this was the regiment involved in the Ballymurphy massacre in 1971. He would have been 25-ish.
 
Nessie said:
There was no chaos. There were some minor disturbances, a small amount of arrests, a few police were injured and there was a lot of shouting. That is not chaos.
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It was well-policed. However, I have to disagree somewhat that there 'were some minor disturbances'. The breach past the police by demonstrators to get to the Cenotaph was a serious one IMV. The police were supposed to have prevented this, so something seriously went wrong, in that respect. Training gap there.
 
Vixen said:
It was well-policed. However, I have to disagree somewhat that there 'were some minor disturbances'. The breach past the police by demonstrators to get to the Cenotaph was a serious one IMV. The police were supposed to have prevented this, so something seriously went wrong, in that respect. Training gap there.
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You mean the breach by the EDL thugs who were only there because the Home Secretary whipped them up? They had nothing to do with the march which went nowhere near the Cenotaph.
 
Vixen said:
Citation? The 16 unit Air Assault Brigade was formed in 1999, when Henderson would have been 53.

He claims to have served in Northern Ireland 'during the troubles' and this was from 1969 - 1998. If he had any connection to the Parachute Regiment as he claims, then this was the regiment involved in the Ballymurphy massacre in 1971. He would have been 25-ish.
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Air Assault Brigades were first formed in WW2.
Signals units have been attached to air assault brigades since they were formed.

Obviously by his age he served in the 1970s.
There were signals units attached to Air Assault Brigades in the 1970s.
He was obviously not part of a unit formed in 1999.

One regimental battalion of the Parachute regiment served in Northern Ireland.

There was never an Air Assault Brigade deployed in Northern Ireland.

If he served in Northern Ireland it was not with the parachute regiment, it would have been as part of a separate signals unit.
 
junkshop said:
What are you prattling on about?

Your blithering about some imagined gender-specific aspect to the word 'wittering' is just ignorant blather.
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And Darat didn't call her a moron. The only times that word occurs in this thread is in her complaint and denials by others.

eta: And it hasn't been shunted to AAH either.
 
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Nigel Farage has just landed in Australia after signing a £1.5 million deal to appear on I'm A Celeb, the highest fee ever paid.
 
Andy_Ross said:
Nigel Farage has just landed in Australia after signing a £1.5 million deal to appear on I'm A Celeb, the highest fee ever paid.
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Can someone slip a funnelweb spider in his sleeping bag, please?
 
Andy_Ross said:
Nigel Farage has just landed in Australia after signing a £1.5 million deal to appear on I'm A Celeb, the highest fee ever paid.
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Ugh. I didn't think I could want to watch that program any less than I already do, but here we are.
 
Looks like the Conservatives are once again reverting to type by proposing to cut benefits for people who cannot work due to ill health :mad:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67385385

There's already been an unprecedented rise in the number of people in poverty, why not give it an extra push, take billions from those who can afford it least, hamstring the economy, and give the very richest some unneeded tax breaks ?
 
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