Cont: General UK Politics III - Dumb and Dumber

[The Don]

According to an article in the Daily Telegraph, the UK's economic problems aren't due to woeful mismanagement of the economy, the economic self-harm of Brexit, the billions of pounds squandered by the government during Covid or Austerity - but because people like me are retiring early.

Apparently according to the head of the Bank of England, interest rates have had to rise because the workforce is marginally smaller than it was - and not because of rampant inflation.

A closer examination of the article beyond the headline actually shows that all of those other things are a major factor and early retirements are a minor effect but I guess Torygraph readers prefer to fulminate over people who retire early.

 

[The Don]

He pretends to be from Yeerksheer too

IIRC it's Nottinghamshire.

 

[Norman Alexander]

According to an article in the Daily Telegraph, the UK's economic problems aren't due to woeful mismanagement of the economy, the economic self-harm of Brexit, the billions of pounds squandered by the government during Covid or Austerity - but because people like me are retiring early.

Apparently according to the head of the Bank of England, interest rates have had to rise because the workforce is marginally smaller than it was - and not because of rampant inflation.

A closer examination of the article beyond the headline actually shows that all of those other things are a major factor and early retirements are a minor effect but I guess Torygraph readers prefer to fulminate over people who retire early.

People who have never worked for years fulminating over people who have worked for years and would like to stop now. Sometimes I really do think a good boot to their testicles is needed just to bring them back to reality.

 

[Darat]

NHS hospitals told to share patient data with US ‘spy-tech’ firm

Palantir, whose owner claimed the NHS ‘makes people sick’, will ‘collect and process confidential patient information’

...snip....

The instruction came despite a government pledge, made after openDemocracy sued the Department of Health and Social Care in 2021, to consult the public before agreeing to work with Palantir again.

...snip....

Lawyers for three patient advocacy groups said that NHS England had not addressed vital legal and privacy concerns. “Slapping a sticker over your NHS number doesn’t suddenly mean your health record needs no protection,” said Cori Crider, a lawyer at Foxglove Legal. “People are very easy to re-identify from pseudonymised data.”

The news also raises fresh concerns that Palantir is being lined up to win a contentious £480m contract to process unprecedented amounts of NHS data without patient consent.

...snip...

 

[Carrot Flower King]

NHS hospitals told to share patient data with US ‘spy-tech’ firm

Makes a nonsense of the concept of informed consent.

Really most of these NHS IT and data collection schemes are far from transparent about how information is "pseudonymised" or otherwise has identity covered.

The sometime IT trainer and payroll bod across the table from me mutters very darkly about how easy it can be to cross-reference a handful of data points, not to mention how lax some parts of the NHS already are about data security.

 

[Filippo Lippi]

IIRC it's Nottinghamshire.

Yes, as I pointed out up thread

 

[Darat]

According to an article in the Daily Telegraph, the UK's economic problems aren't due to woeful mismanagement of the economy, the economic self-harm of Brexit, the billions of pounds squandered by the government during Covid or Austerity - but because people like me are retiring early.

Apparently according to the head of the Bank of England, interest rates have had to rise because the workforce is marginally smaller than it was - and not because of rampant inflation.

A closer examination of the article beyond the headline actually shows that all of those other things are a major factor and early retirements are a minor effect but I guess Torygraph readers prefer to fulminate over people who retire early.

People who have never worked for years fulminating over people who have worked for years and would like to stop now. Sometimes I really do think a good boot to their testicles is needed just to bring them back to reality.

It's one of the few problems that the Tory policies have tackled and for which their policies are working.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/northern-england-life-expectancy-decline-b1937537.html

....For men, the gap was around 27 years. A man living in Kensington and Chelsea, also in London, was expected to live until 95.

In one part of Blackpool life expectancy for men was 68....​

So only need pensions to pay out for a couple of years at the most for those that couldn't put aside the odd £100,000 a year....

And how do we know it is the Tory policies working? "...The study found that between 2002 and 2010 the vast majority of communities saw their life expectancy increase but declines started after 2010...."

 

[jimbob]

Royal politics as reported in yesterday's i paper and pointed out to me by my daughter.

[IMGw=640]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1447&pictureid=13382[/IMGw]

 

[Carrot Flower King]

According to an article in the Daily Telegraph, the UK's economic problems aren't due to woeful mismanagement of the economy, the economic self-harm of Brexit, the billions of pounds squandered by the government during Covid or Austerity - but because people like me are retiring early.

Apparently according to the head of the Bank of England, interest rates have had to rise because the workforce is marginally smaller than it was - and not because of rampant inflation.

A closer examination of the article beyond the headline actually shows that all of those other things are a major factor and early retirements are a minor effect but I guess Torygraph readers prefer to fulminate over people who retire early.

And we suddenly stop spending money when we retire?

My disposable income only fell slightly (it's amazing how much standard rate income tax, NI, pension contributions and a lease car take out of your salary - near as damn it 50%) on retiring as all my off takes bar one vanished. Which means that I still spend as much on food and all the rest, can have holidays, spend more on books as I'm reading more, but less on petrol as I don't drive over a thousand work miles each month.

It's almost like someone doesn't know what they are talking about and have some socio-political axe to grind.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

According to an article in the Daily Telegraph, the UK's economic problems aren't due to woeful mismanagement of the economy, the economic self-harm of Brexit, the billions of pounds squandered by the government during Covid or Austerity - but because people like me are retiring early.

Apparently according to the head of the Bank of England, interest rates have had to rise because the workforce is marginally smaller than it was - and not because of rampant inflation.

A closer examination of the article beyond the headline actually shows that all of those other things are a major factor and early retirements are a minor effect but I guess Torygraph readers prefer to fulminate over people who retire early.

Of course. By giving yourself more time to go round spending your money at local businesses and go off to different parts of the country on breaks, you are making it harder for businesses to survivev due to all the extra spend... er, wait, by taking your highly priced expertise* off the market after an adult life working you are hurting businesses by allowing them to hire younger people at lower... no, that's not this either, by taking early retirement you are costing the exchequer by drawing down your private pension earlier and paying taxes on same... oh this thinking stuff is hard; because the tories really hate people under a certain wealth bracket enjoying any leisure time, yes that works!

*Yes I know knowlege is important to long term economic wellbeing, but that's not the route the current govt. and many businesses are travelling.

 

[jeremyp]

According to an article in the Daily Telegraph, the UK's economic problems aren't due to woeful mismanagement of the economy, the economic self-harm of Brexit, the billions of pounds squandered by the government during Covid or Austerity - but because people like me are retiring early.

Apparently according to the head of the Bank of England, interest rates have had to rise because the workforce is marginally smaller than it was - and not because of rampant inflation.

A closer examination of the article beyond the headline actually shows that all of those other things are a major factor and early retirements are a minor effect but I guess Torygraph readers prefer to fulminate over people who retire early.

I'm getting close to retirement. The irony is that the interest rate rise likely won't affect me too badly. My mortgage is paid off and I have savings. My pension is quite well diversified and doesn't seem to have been too badly affected by the current economic woes. If GBP rises, it might be a problem though.

 

[Darat]

British grocery inflation rose again in March to a record 17.5%, inflicting yet more pain on consumers battling a cost-of-living crisis, industry data showed on Tuesday.

Market researcher Kantar said prices were rising fastest in markets such as eggs, milk and cheese.

 

[Vixen]

IIRC it's Nottinghamshire.

Well, he's from up North, anyway.

 

[The Don]

Of course. By giving yourself more time to go round spending your money at local businesses and go off to different parts of the country on breaks, you are making it harder for businesses to survivev due to all the extra spend... er, wait, by taking your highly priced expertise* off the market after an adult life working you are hurting businesses by allowing them to hire younger people at lower... no, that's not this either, by taking early retirement you are costing the exchequer by drawing down your private pension earlier and paying taxes on same... oh this thinking stuff is hard; because the tories really hate people under a certain wealth bracket enjoying any leisure time, yes that works!

*Yes I know knowlege is important to long term economic wellbeing, but that's not the route the current govt. and many businesses are travelling.

I sort of get the thinking, a shrinking labour force leads to increases in wages which leads to inflation which leads to interest rate rises.

The trouble is that the thinking is completely backwards in this case. External factors have led to inflation which has necessitated both an increase in interest rates and increases in wages.

Blaming early retirees is like not having the morning after fry-up to prevent a hangover rather than not drinking far too much.

 

[Lothian]

Market researcher Kantar said prices were rising fastest in markets such as eggs, milk and cheese.[/URL]

The cheese crisis is down to local shortages as a result of us now selling 95% of domestic production to Japan. At least that is what I read in a paper by a L.Truss.

 

[Nessie]

According to an article in the Daily Telegraph, the UK's economic problems aren't due to woeful mismanagement of the economy, the economic self-harm of Brexit, the billions of pounds squandered by the government during Covid or Austerity - but because people like me are retiring early.

Apparently according to the head of the Bank of England, interest rates have had to rise because the workforce is marginally smaller than it was - and not because of rampant inflation.

A closer examination of the article beyond the headline actually shows that all of those other things are a major factor and early retirements are a minor effect but I guess Torygraph readers prefer to fulminate over people who retire early.

I probably show up on stats as an early retirer, but I have another job as well as my pension. Just because someone gets a pension, does not mean they have actually retried from work, much of which is often voluntary.

 

[Nessie]

And we suddenly stop spending money when we retire?

My disposable income only fell slightly (it's amazing how much standard rate income tax, NI, pension contributions and a lease car take out of your salary - near as damn it 50%) on retiring as all my off takes bar one vanished. Which means that I still spend as much on food and all the rest, can have holidays, spend more on books as I'm reading more, but less on petrol as I don't drive over a thousand work miles each month.

It's almost like someone doesn't know what they are talking about and have some socio-political axe to grind.

Early retirement is like universal basic income, where people spend, putting that money back into the economy.

 

[catsmate]

https://twitter.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1640219054702034945

Tweet from Lee Anderson MP

"I was in London & was when approached by a man who appeared to be down on his luck. He asked for money but I had no cash. He then whipped out a chip and pin machine & told me I could use a card. I will not give money out ever again on the streets.
Help yes, cash no!"

I'm somewhat sceptical if his story.

 

[catsmate]

Lee Anderson may of course be fibbing

Or the person was using a smartphone app. It is possible that Anderson isn't lying. This time.

 

[jimbob]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...dose-of-popularity?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

A minister who has admitted to using cocaine being sent out to announce a clampdown on laughing gas. Totally normal. A home secretary who can’t be trusted to stay on message. Totally normal. A government prepared to break international law by deporting refugees. Totally normal. An environment secretary permanently at war with herself and the farming community. Totally normal. A chancellor unbothered by a 4% hit to GDP from Brexit. Totally normal. A prime minister who finds all the above totally normal. Totally normal.

The rest is worth reading too

 

[Nessie]

Or the person was using a smartphone app. It is possible that Anderson isn't lying. This time.

Card readers are now very cheap, less than £20 for a basic one, with an app and they take a few pence for each transaction. It is entirely possible this is true.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Makes a nonsense of the concept of informed consent.

Really most of these NHS IT and data collection schemes are far from transparent about how information is "pseudonymised" or otherwise has identity covered.

The sometime IT trainer and payroll bod across the table from me mutters very darkly about how easy it can be to cross-reference a handful of data points, not to mention how lax some parts of the NHS already are about data security.

As someone involved in managing similar systems...

The only way to prevent patient data from being used to identify people is to NOT GIVE IT OUT. The default position on all patient data should be "Locked unless specific permission is given to reveal it, and which parts, and who to".

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

I sort of get the thinking, a shrinking labour force leads to increases in wages which leads to inflation which leads to interest rate rises.

The trouble is that the thinking is completely backwards in this case. External factors have led to inflation which has necessitated both an increase in interest rates and increases in wages.

Blaming early retirees is like not having the morning after fry-up to prevent a hangover rather than not drinking far too much.

Wages very rarely cause inflation because they are a following, not a leading indicator. But they are a convenient scapegoat to kick for governments who want not to blame the actual causes.

 

[Ian Osborne]

I'm somewhat sceptical if his story.

You're behind with the times. Only yesterday, a beggar in a top hat and tails approached me and said, "Would you mind awfully giving me any spare banknotes you might have on your person, eh what?"

I got out a twenty, and he said, "Give it to my butler. Jolly good show."

 

[Planigale]

As someone involved in managing similar systems...

The only way to prevent patient data from being used to identify people is to NOT GIVE IT OUT. The default position on all patient data should be "Locked unless specific permission is given to reveal it, and which parts, and who to".

This is the other side of FOI requests. The health service are inundated by requests for data (this is not a real request but is representative) could you give the numbers of people with covid vaccinations admitted to ICU by age and gender and number of deaths by age and gender on ICU. Number of pregnant women admitted by vaccination status and if vaccinated in pregnancy, which trimester and pregnancy outcome). What people making many of these FOI requests forget is that this is personal data. In general the people dealing with the requsts have a balance between their requirement to release information, but making sure that the information they give out is sufficiently general it does not result in patient identifiable data.

 

[Planigale]

You're behind with the times. Only yesterday, a beggar in a top hat and tails approached me and said, "Would you mind awfully giving me any spare banknotes you might have on your person, eh what?"

I got out a twenty, and he said, "Give it to my butler. Jolly good show."

Probably landed on a hotel in Mayfair. That usually puts you out of the game.

 

[jimbob]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-cyberbullying-former-minister-nadine-dorries

SNP MP John Nicolson cleared of cyberbullying Nadine Dorries

John Nicolson, the SNP’s culture secretary, is understood to have been cleared after parliament’s Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme (ICGS) assessed a series of tweets he made about Dorries while she was culture secretary in Boris Johnson’s cabinet.

He criticised Dorries, calling her “a horrible disgusting woman”, “a “mendacious, vacuous Tory goon” and “thick as two short planks”.

Presumably truth is a defence

 

[Mojo]

You're behind with the times. Only yesterday, a beggar in a top hat and tails approached me and said, "Would you mind awfully giving me any spare banknotes you might have on your person, eh what?"

I got out a twenty, and he said, "Give it to my butler. Jolly good show."

I know Rees-Mogg is no longer in the cabinet, but I didn't realise things were that bad.

 

[Mojo]

This is the other side of FOI requests. The health service are inundated by requests for data (this is not a real request but is representative) could you give the numbers of people with covid vaccinations admitted to ICU by age and gender and number of deaths by age and gender on ICU. Number of pregnant women admitted by vaccination status and if vaccinated in pregnancy, which trimester and pregnancy outcome). What people making many of these FOI requests forget is that this is personal data. In general the people dealing with the requsts have a balance between their requirement to release information, but making sure that the information they give out is sufficiently general it does not result in patient identifiable data.

Might the amount of work needed to guarantee confidentiality take it over the cost threshold?

 

[Vixen]

Makes a nonsense of the concept of informed consent.

Really most of these NHS IT and data collection schemes are far from transparent about how information is "pseudonymised" or otherwise has identity covered.

The sometime IT trainer and payroll bod across the table from me mutters very darkly about how easy it can be to cross-reference a handful of data points, not to mention how lax some parts of the NHS already are about data security.

My kid was a former NHS data scientist head who used anonymised patient data all the time for the big data analysis. He told me they don't get to know patient ID, and anyway, they are not interested in Mr. Smith's ingrowing toenails or Mrs. Jones' bunion, although the nature of some of the medical conditions were quite sensitive in nature. The aim was to improve overall services and for this they really do need the statistical and demographical data.

 

[Planigale]

My kid was a former NHS data scientist head who used anonymised patient data all the time for the big data analysis. He told me they don't get to know patient ID, and anyway, they are not interested in Mr. Smith's ingrowing toenails or Mrs. Jones' bunion, although the nature of some of the medical conditions were quite sensitive in nature. The aim was to improve overall services and for this they really do need the statistical and demographical data.

But as you say this was internal to NHS. It is exporting data that is of concern.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I know Rees-Mogg is no longer in the cabinet, but I didn't realise things were that bad.

No, the that would be "Give it to Nanny"

 

[Worm]

But as you say this was internal to NHS. It is exporting data that is of concern.

Hopefully without going off-topic - not only export. It is the unnecessary processing of data that is of concern. If they have collated lots of information for one (or more) purposes, they can't simply start using it for other purposes without considering the ramifications.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

My kid was a former NHS data scientist head who used anonymised patient data all the time for the big data analysis. He told me they don't get to know patient ID, and anyway, they are not interested in Mr. Smith's ingrowing toenails or Mrs. Jones' bunion, although the nature of some of the medical conditions were quite sensitive in nature. The aim was to improve overall services and for this they really do need the statistical and demographical data.

As Planigale has already pointed out, that is not what is being discussed here.

I am well familar with the sort of data use you describe, having, as part of my service development remit, suggested using the wealth of data our service had on prevalence of disorders, location of patients, access to socio-demographic information and the like to help plan services better - my eejit management did not bother listening.

Exporting data to foreign third parties of dubious reputation and unknown intent is something which goes waaaaaaay beyond any existing or realistic notion of informed consent.

 

[Mongrel]

Exporting data to foreign third parties of dubious reputation and unknown intent is something which goes waaaaaaay beyond any existing or realistic notion of informed consent.

Not forgetting that the data you have the easier it is to start linking it together and break anonymity.

 

[KDLarsen]

Jesus wept, a tory MP claims she heard some horrific stories from anonymous parents about what goes on in school sex ed classes, so now the DfE has to spend time and resources reviewing them.

 

[The Atheist]

NHS hospitals told to share patient data with US ‘spy-tech’ firm

Jesus H Christ.

And people worry about the Chinese spying on UK.

Palantir is pure evil.

 

[dudalb]

I know Rees-Mogg is no longer in the cabinet, but I didn't realise things were that bad.

Rees-Mogg : to this Yank he comes off like every negative streotype of the snotty ,obnoxious British Upper Class Snob every done by Hollywood.

 

[dudalb]

God, don't these morons understand they are setting themsleves up for a massive wipe out next election?

 

[Carrot Flower King]

God, don't these morons understand they are setting themsleves up for a massive wipe out next election?

That's what some of us are hoping for.

However, we've met the UK, especially English, electorate and heard and read multiple vox pops and it doesn't fill us with confidence.

FFS, just before BlowJob's performance in front of the privileges committee the Beeb did a vox pop in Uxbridge about him and managed to find one woman who was supporting him because "I've always had a thing for a bad boy". Which is fine for a knee trembler behind the bus station, but not for a MP and sometime cabinet member and PM.