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Gay Teachers

No, hate speech leads to action. Action hurts. Teaching people to hate is harmful. The actual words of course don't shoot you, but people who hate others do. Slander is not allowed, and hate speech is a form of slander.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
No, hate speech leads to action.
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No it doesnt, very few people who hear "hate" speech resort to action.

Action hurts.

Then punish the action.

Slander is not allowed

Evidence?

Slander is not against the law, but you can be sued for it if it is proven that the person you slandered has been hurt financially.

I cite the Jerry Fallwell vs. Larry Flynt case as an example.

hate speech is a form of slander.

Who is being slandered by "hate" speech?
 
Gay people are accused of having a 'gay agenda' in hate speach. If that isn't slander, then it should be. People get discriminated against. That can cost people jobs and any other number of 'priviledges'.

Lots of people who hear hate speech take action when they believe it. If they can't hear the lies, then how can they hate?


An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I don't want to have action to punish.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
Gay people are accused of having a 'gay agenda' in hate speach.
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Gimme a break, there most definitely is a gay agenda.

You're just a coward and sniveling crybaby that can’t handle it when someone dares insults you or your lifestyle.

If that isn't slander, then it should be.

And I guess saying that conservatives have a conservative agenda should be slander too?

People get discriminated against. That can cost people jobs and any other number of 'priviledges'.

Then punish the discrimination.

Lots of people who hear hate speech take action when they believe it.

Evidence?

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I don't want to have action to punish.

So you want to sacrifice freedoms for security? John Ashcroft would love you, you guys think the same way.
 
Evidence. The KKK and it's members are evidence of those who hear drivel and then sign up to propogate more drivel and actions to put minorities in their place.

What is the gay agenda? Acceptance. That's not an agenda, that's a human right to exist without prejudice.

I don't know of any 'conservative agenda' either. In fact I hate the word agenda. It's not a specific description.

Like I said. Hate speech shouldn't be a 'freedom'. Not being able to say you wish someone was dead in a public forum is a 'freedom' I would not like to have, so yeah, sacrifice the freedom to hurt others. We get jailed for hurting people physically. You are also wrong to hurt others with lies and idiotic hate speech. If someone can prove that the crap you are saying is untrue, then it shouldn't be allowed to be presented in a public forum like a newspaper or a speech to a group.

Freedom of speech is fine as long as it doesn't put down someone for just having a different skin color or religion. Calling someone a thief when they aren't shouldn't allowed either. That is why the word 'allegedly' is used until someone is convicted.

You can't convict someone for being gay or for having a different amount of pigment in their skin. Hurting others should never be a freedom. I don't care if it's physically or not.

Sure you can punish discriminating against someone by not giving them a job. We should also be able to punish discrimination by hate speech as well. Then the KKK would finally be stopped. Organized hate is ridiculous, and it's ridiculous to keep allowing it. It's not allowed in schools. It shouldn't be allowed in society either.

We are not talking about infringing on people's rights here. We are talking about allowing people to live their lives without having a group of people saying they are evil and should leave the country. Harrassing others is not a right that anyone needs to have.

It's like the cigarrette issue. What about my right not to have that crap around me. I'm allergic to cigarrette smoke and had to quit jobs to get away from it.

What if I organize a group of people that hate people that think hate speech should be a right? Then we put out pamphlets and such. We make up web sites. Then you'd have millions of people that want to lynch Tony. You get snide comments insulting you from people you don't even know. You never did anything to them. You find that you have a much harder time getting a job or renting a place to live. That doesn't matter. We all hate you. You deserve the resulting hardships.

How nice would that be? I think you'd want some way to get people off your back. Your views are fine. Saying you want the right to hate others and let them know it is fine. It's not fine to actually start saying you hate someone for being different than you and start trying to get others to hate them too by organizing a group to speak your ignorant hate to. That's a line that shouldn't be crossed.

What if someone organized a group against single moms? They wirte ignorant things like "they are all sluts" and "we don't want them influencing our kids". I don't think they have a right to start printing up pamphlets and recruiting others to spread the words.

I'm saying people have a right not to be harrassed like that. I don't care if you don't agree. Just don't go around saying I should die because of my viewpoint.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
I'm saying people have a right not to be harrassed like that. I don't care if you don't agree. Just don't go around saying I should die because of my viewpoint.
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I consider your motives laudable but your views on free speech dangerously naive. What's to stop, say, an extreme right wing government from using these ideas to protect them? What if Bill O'Reilly can sue me for hurting his feelings? What if Fox could sue me for calling them a group of right-wing zealots?

Let your imagination roam free for a moment and think about how these seemingly-innocent alterations to free speech could be abused by those in power.

Free speech is not without its price, and it's a high one. Anything else is even pricier. You need to think about just how awful a place this would become if your ideas were the norm.
 
I'm trying to think of that. I'm just trying to say People shouldn't not have the right to say something that is untrue and try to say others are evil for that untruth.

You only pulled a snippet of my whole post. I don't think anyone can protect themselves from actual truth. What would an extreme right gov't say to protect themselves from an actual truth? I shouldn't be able to call even them evil for wearing blue uniforms or having short hair. I'm sure a line can be drawn between truth and something that isn't true.

I can't say "all people with short hair are evil" and then therefore say "all conservative right wing members should be killed because they have short and that makes them evil". Blatant mistruth there.

I'm finding that hate speech being called free speech comes at too high a price.
 
Eos of the Eons said:

We are not talking about infringing on people's rights here.
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That’s exactly what you are talking about, you want to infringe on the right of free speech and people's right to hate and their right to voice that hate.

What if I organize a group of people that hate people that think hate speech should be a right? Then we put out pamphlets and such. We make up web sites. Then you'd have millions of people that want to lynch Tony.

Why do you think I have an arsenal of guns? Precisely to protect my rights from authoritarian idiots like you.

You get snide comments insulting you from people you don't even know. You never did anything to them. You find that you have a much harder time getting a job or renting a place to live. That doesn't matter. We all hate you. You deserve the resulting hardships.

You are obviously too emotional about this issue to look at it objectivly. Drop the baggage.

What if someone organized a group against single moms? They wirte ignorant things like "they are all sluts" and "we don't want them influencing our kids". I don't think they have a right to start printing up pamphlets and recruiting others to spread the words.

Well, they do have that right, and there is really nothing you could do about it.
 
Naw, I'm not emotional. I just thought I needed to get my point across more. Name calling is stupid, and makes name callers look like idiots. Like you said though, if it bothers me that's my problem.

Any ways, one point is that I would rather know the bad things people were thinking so that maybe something can be done about it.

But I do have the freedom to say that I wish people didn't have the right to call people idiots. :p
 
Eos of the Eons said:


But I do have the freedom to say that I wish people didn't have the right to call people idiots. :p
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And I have the freedom to call the people that wish people didnt have the right to call people idiots, idiots. :D :p
 
Tony said:



And I have the freedom to call the people that wish people didnt have the right to call people idiots, idiots. :D :p
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Umm, I guess this discussion couldn't get any more idiotic :D

Can anyone get us back on topic?
 
When I was in 5th grade, we had a gay English teacher. He wasn't openly gay (this was in 1976), but everyone (students and parents) knew it by his mannerisms. And nobody cared, he was one of the best teachers in the school and everyone liked him. He would read Roald Dahl's "Danny, Champion of the World" to us in a perfect English accent. Too bad all the teachers there weren't as good. And I'm not aware of any student "turning gay" because of him.
 
In grade school, one of my male science teachers was very effeminate, and he was something of a laughingstock because of it. I never saw him act inappropriately with any students, neither was i aware of any rumors that he did so. Nevertheless, students outside his class mocked him because of his mannerisms.

Fast forward ahead by fifteen years. I was coaching a group of junior high schoolers, and I overhear them mentioning one of their science teachers of the same name. Could it be the same guy? Unlikely, I thought. The kids attended a strictly Catholic school (not the same school I attended), and it seemed unlikely to me that this school would hire someone who was so flagrantly effeminate. Besides, the kids were discussing the content of the course, not the mannerisms of the teacher.

But I asked the kids anyway.

"You know, I had a science teacher named Mr. ____ when I was your age," I said. "But I don't think that your teacher and my teacher are the same guy. The teacher I had, well, he acted... you know.. like he was gay."

All of the students' faces lit up and they broke into laughter. "That's him!" they all said. They were apparently not permitted to speculate openly about his sexual orientation, but it was quite clear that they did so in private.
 
I dont think I had any gay teachers, but I think my sophmore biology teacher was a lesbian.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
Only in your fantasies
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I didnt want to say this at the risk of sounding "insensitive", but this woman was a fat butch dike. Not very attractive at all.
 
Looking back now, I can think of at least three of my teachers that may very well have been gay.
However, having grown up in a small redneck prairie town, I didn't really believed gay people existed. They were sort of like leprechauns.
 
Tony said:



I didnt want to say this at the risk of sounding "insensitive", but this woman was a fat butch dike. Not very attractive at all.
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LOL! I was just kidding, sorta, anyway. Most guys like the thought of two women together. I guess even her and another girl together would still be unappealing.
 
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