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Future of the Forum

Here's the official word:

After considering all the comments and proposals from forum members, JREF has decided to transfer operation of the forums to TribeTech AB, a Swedish company founded by forum member icerat which specialises in hosting and developing internet communities. Icerat, together with the current forum admins (Darat, Locknar, Lash_L, and Lisa_Simpson) have developed a transition plan which JREF believes protects the privacy and interests of all forum members, as well as the ongoing existence of the forum community. All of the current admins are supportive of the transition plan and will continue their roles at the forum’s new home.

The transition team will post a message outlining the procedure in the next few days.

Will we be provided with a list of people to sue if we get all butthurt about the transition?***


***Post is for entertainment purposes only. Does not represent a threat, expressed or implied, to sue the JREF. Your mileage may vary. Professional driver on closed course. Do not attempt at home. Contact your physician if rash lasts longer than 4 days. Adults only.
 
Here's the official word:

After considering all the comments and proposals from forum members, JREF has decided to transfer operation of the forums to TribeTech AB, a Swedish company founded by forum member icerat which specialises in hosting and developing internet communities. Icerat, together with the current forum admins (Darat, Locknar, Lash_L, and Lisa_Simpson) have developed a transition plan which JREF believes protects the privacy and interests of all forum members, as well as the ongoing existence of the forum community. All of the current admins are supportive of the transition plan and will continue their roles at the forum’s new home.

The transition team will post a message outlining the procedure in the next few days.
Sharon, that sounds like a good beginning of a plan to me.
 
Will we be provided with a list of people to sue if we get all butthurt about the transition?***


***Post is for entertainment purposes only. Does not represent a threat, expressed or implied, to sue the JREF. Your mileage may vary. Professional driver on closed course. Do not attempt at home. Contact your physician if rash lasts longer than 4 days. Adults only.
Anyone who gets a lot of butthurt out of this should just sue their own butt for pain and suffering ;)
 
Here's the official word:

After considering all the comments and proposals from forum members, JREF has decided to transfer operation of the forums to TribeTech AB, a Swedish company founded by forum member icerat which specialises in hosting and developing internet communities. Icerat, together with the current forum admins (Darat, Locknar, Lash_L, and Lisa_Simpson) have developed a transition plan which JREF believes protects the privacy and interests of all forum members, as well as the ongoing existence of the forum community. All of the current admins are supportive of the transition plan and will continue their roles at the forum’s new home.

The transition team will post a message outlining the procedure in the next few days.

When future historians look back on this, for they surely will, they will mark this day as THE day that it all changed.
 
Let's turn the whole new forum into a video game.
We land on a dark, nasty planet. We don't know what colour shirt we have on. We have to find a spooky, dark spaceship. CO2 vapour pours out of chill egg things on the floor. One bursts open and out comes...frozen yogurt!

In cyberspace, nobody can eat ice cream.
 
Let's turn the whole new forum into a video game.
We land on a dark, nasty planet. We don't know what colour shirt we have on. We have to find a spooky, dark spaceship. CO2 vapour pours out of chill egg things on the floor. One bursts open and out comes...frozen yogurt!

In cyberspace, nobody can eat ice cream.

Enter the room. Turn to your left. Pick up the book of matches...
 
Now we just need a new name. The name threads do not seem to have come up with consensus for one.
Do you really think a consensus would/could ever be achieved?

From the poll conducted there's a clear preference that I assume will become the new name. . .

...Annnd...

There you have it.

Top 4:

International Skeptics Forum, 29 votes
The Amazing Forum, 16 votes
unCommon Sense, 16 votes
Planet X, 15 votes.
 
I'm not keen on the entire forum being under the control of one person. I think we should form some kind of council with functional authority.
 
Aren't they called 'moderators and admins'?
Kind of. Previously, moderators and admins had to follow the rules that were set down by the JREF. Are they now going to take on policy responsibilities as well as the practical day-to-day work (which, as I recall, is considerable)? Someone's got to decide whether to keep the smut rule, what to do with any donations in excess of requirements, etc.
 
What we need is to take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week with all the decisions of that officer having to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major decisions.
 
RemieV said:
I'm not keen on the entire forum being under the control of one person. I think we should form some kind of council with functional authority.

Aren't they called 'moderators and admins'?
If Icerat does this properly, he would continue to have his regular forum accounts without any elevation, and deliberately keep himself out of the Admin and Mod pools. In theory, since he has access to the database he can dump it and read the tables containing the Moderator and Deep Storage areas, but he's indicated he's a professional and will abide by a code of ethics.

I'm in sort of the same bind at work. I'm the system administrator, looking after, among others, the mail and file servers. I have the ability to read all the emails in the IMAP accounts. I can access even the most closed areas of the file server, a private area for the company president and the operations manager that includes very private things like employee performance assessments and payroll data. But I simply do not do this. Were it discovered I was, the company's trust in me would be destroyed and I'd probably be fired. Not a very fun prospect at my age, with about a decade to go before retirement.

Icerat's said as much himself:
Well I'll make a statement. I don't want the forum transferred to me with the personal information included. Even outside of the ethics of it, it puts my company and I at legal risk. As I noted in the other thread, as a consultant with JREF working on the challenges I can technically get access to the information now (though it would not be easy). Don't want it. ... As you likely know, JREF has a contract that forum admins are required to sign that I'm told includes privacy clauses. If it's decided I need admin access to the forum before the transfer (it would be useful in troubleshooting the problems, but I'd rather avoid this), I too will need to sign that contract.
I realize for him being fired as the sysadmin of a small but active web forum wouldn't destroy his reputation, but it's something he probably doesn't want in his background.
 
Kind of. Previously, moderators and admins had to follow the rules that were set down by the JREF. Are they now going to take on policy responsibilities as well as the practical day-to-day work (which, as I recall, is considerable)? Someone's got to decide whether to keep the smut rule, what to do with any donations in excess of requirements, etc.

If you're creating a board and taking donations, your first order of business should probably be incorporating. ;)

But really - that sounds flippin' horrendous to me. I'm in the "ain't broke, don't fix" category of thinking. The reasons Randi installed the no smut rule are still valid. All those people insisting that this forum is an educational tool should be the most interested in keeping that rule in place.

Plus, sorry, but I can't think of anyone I actually want to represent my interests. I mean, it's a forum, not Congress. I liked Jeff being at the wheel not because he would represent me or anyone else, but because I trust in one thing about him - he is exceedingly fair.

What we need is to take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week with all the decisions of that officer having to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major decisions.

Yup. That's exactly what it sounds like.
 
If Icerat does this properly, he would continue to have his regular forum accounts without any elevation, and deliberately keep himself out of the Admin and Mod pools. In theory, since he has access to the database he can dump it and read the tables containing the Moderator and Deep Storage areas, but he's indicated he's a professional and will abide by a code of ethics.

I'm in sort of the same bind at work. I'm the system administrator, looking after, among others, the mail and file servers. I have the ability to read all the emails in the IMAP accounts. I can access even the most closed areas of the file server, a private area for the company president and the operations manager that includes very private things like employee performance assessments and payroll data. But I simply do not do this. Were it discovered I was, the company's trust in me would be destroyed and I'd probably be fired. Not a very fun prospect at my age, with about a decade to go before retirement.
Pretty much this. I'm okay with the Admins and Mods taking on policy in addition to their regular role, but it's something that we need to think about now, while we're still in creative mode.
 
Pretty much this. I'm okay with the Admins and Mods taking on policy in addition to their regular role, but it's something that we need to think about now, while we're still in creative mode.

Dare I even ask - what is it you want changed so badly?
 
I want to know who it is that is going to be making the policy decisions, now that the JREF is out of the picture.

Seeing as he owns the forum, I'm gonna say that would be icerat and there's nothing anyone can do about it should they happen to want to.
 
Seeing as he owns the forum, I'm gonna say that would be icerat and there's nothing anyone can do about it should they happen to want to.
Yes, and that's fine - I support that - but icerat has said that he doesn't want to be the sole person in charge. I'm good with him being the main tech support guru, but I don't know that the forum policy should be in his hands alone.

I'm talking about whether the Membership Agreement ought to be changed, whether we will still require peoples' real names before they sign up, and yes, even whether we want to retain the smut rule. Those things that were decided by the JREF in years past are now open questions again. Who decides those?
 
Yes, and that's fine - I support that - but icerat has said that he doesn't want to be the sole person in charge. I'm good with him being the main tech support guru, but I don't know that the forum policy should be in his hands alone.

I'm talking about whether the Membership Agreement ought to be changed, whether we will still require peoples' real names before they sign up, and yes, even whether we want to retain the smut rule. Those things that were decided by the JREF in years past are now open questions again. Who decides those?
If the forum is handed over to a newly-formed organization, said organization would be responsible for policy using whatever mechanisms are in their main bylaw. Problem is, having been involved in drafting bylaws on more than one occasion, it's a task I do not envy the people trying to set up the organization.
 
Has anyone asked Randi if he would mind if the new forum keeps his namesake: JREF Forum? It could have a banner stating in clear boilerplate language his disavowing any connection with the JREF.org.

I'd feel much more sanguine about all of these changes if Sharon's "official word" took the form of quotes attributable to someone in charge. But if the main admins who have been here for so long are buying into this plan, that's good enough for me.

... JREF has decided to transfer operation .....a transition plan which JREF believes...

Who is JREF these days?
 
Yes, and that's fine - I support that - but icerat has said that he doesn't want to be the sole person in charge. I'm good with him being the main tech support guru, but I don't know that the forum policy should be in his hands alone.

I'm talking about whether the Membership Agreement ought to be changed, whether we will still require peoples' real names before they sign up, and yes, even whether we want to retain the smut rule. Those things that were decided by the JREF in years past are now open questions again. Who decides those?

Icerat and the forum admins, obviously. They're the ones that have the passwords and the access.

It remains to be seen if the forum that brought them together is the forum they wish to retain.

The good thing is, you're no more powerless now than you were before.
 
Yes, and that's fine - I support that - but icerat has said that he doesn't want to be the sole person in charge. I'm good with him being the main tech support guru, but I don't know that the forum policy should be in his hands alone.

I'm talking about whether the Membership Agreement ought to be changed, whether we will still require peoples' real names before they sign up, and yes, even whether we want to retain the smut rule. Those things that were decided by the JREF in years past are now open questions again. Who decides those?

*shrug* In the end? Whoever icerat says decides those.

For instance, if Jeff came aboard, it would be because icerat had said so.

If the mods and admins take over, it will be because icerat says so.

If there is a new random board congress council, it will be because icerat says so.

And in all those cases, at any moment icerat can say "Nope, don't want it that way" and do whatever because icerat owns the forum.

You can gloss over that however you want and say "I don't want one person in control of the forum", but you're a bit late there. ;) There already is one person in control of the forum.

So, if you want there to be a board/council/congress whatever, you'd probably do better to message the person who owns the forum...

Icerat and the forum admins, obviously. They're the ones that have the passwords and the access.

It remains to be seen if the forum that brought them together is the forum they wish to retain.

The good thing is, you're no more powerless now than you were before.

Yep.
 
You should have asked Brian Dunning for some advice :D


Ouch!!!


What we need is to take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week with all the decisions of that officer having to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major decisions.


BLOODY PEASANT!!!!
 
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*shrug* In the end? Whoever icerat says decides those.

For instance, if Jeff came aboard, it would be because icerat had said so.

If the mods and admins take over, it will be because icerat says so.

If there is a new random board congress council, it will be because icerat says so.

And in all those cases, at any moment icerat can say "Nope, don't want it that way" and do whatever because icerat owns the forum.

You can gloss over that however you want and say "I don't want one person in control of the forum", but you're a bit late there. ;) There already is one person in control of the forum.

So, if you want there to be a board/council/congress whatever, you'd probably do better to message the person who owns the forum...
All true.

With one qualification. True, icerat can do whatever he wants. But members can also choose if they want to remain in the forum or not. If icerat were to do too many things that members found undesirable or unwanted, they'd leave. And then icerat would be the proud owner of a forum which is practically dead.

icerat's main motivation for doing all of this, so far as I can see, is simply to save the forum. He's personally putting both time and money into that effort. For him then to turn around and make decisions that directly contradict the stated desires of the forum membership seems rather stupid to me...and icerat doesn't seem like a stupid guy.

This idea that "we have no control"?

Nonsense. We can't control what icerat does with the forum, that is true; but we can control whether the forum is successful or not after its transfer. If too many people leave, there won't be much left; and such a situation would likely result in the JREF likewise dropping whatever minimal association it still has with the forum (it's my understanding that the JREF site will still link to the forum...cutting off that link due to undesired changes would hurt the forum significantly).

We've got the same mod team still in charge of the forum. We've got a guy who, by all indications, is firmly invested in making this forum successful (quite arguably moreso than the JREF has been).

So...what incentive or reason would he have for making significant unwanted changes?
 
What we need is to take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week with all the decisions of that officer having to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major decisions.


With special member-restroom-visiting permits votes every Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
 
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All true.

With one qualification. True, icerat can do whatever he wants. But members can also choose if they want to remain in the forum or not. If icerat were to do too many things that members found undesirable or unwanted, they'd leave. And then icerat would be the proud owner of a forum which is practically dead.

icerat's main motivation for doing all of this, so far as I can see, is simply to save the forum. He's personally putting both time and money into that effort. For him then to turn around and make decisions that directly contradict the stated desires of the forum membership seems rather stupid to me...and icerat doesn't seem like a stupid guy.

This idea that "we have no control"?

Nonsense. We can't control what icerat does with the forum, that is true; but we can control whether the forum is successful or not after its transfer. If too many people leave, there won't be much left; and such a situation would likely result in the JREF likewise dropping whatever minimal association it still has with the forum (it's my understanding that the JREF site will still link to the forum...cutting off that link due to undesired changes would hurt the forum significantly).

We've got the same mod team still in charge of the forum. We've got a guy who, by all indications, is firmly invested in making this forum successful (quite arguably moreso than the JREF has been).

So...what incentive or reason would he have for making significant unwanted changes?

I don't know why you read it as though I think he has "incentive or reason" for "making significant unwanted changes". My statements did not have any type of value judgment whatsoever - I was just pointing out to arth that being concerned about the forum being controlled by one person makes no sense, and forming a council without the input of the one person who can decide such things makes no sense.

Of course we can leave if we want - I wasn't really talking about that, either.
 
Here's the official word:

After considering all the comments and proposals from forum members, JREF has decided to transfer operation of the forums to TribeTech AB, a Swedish company founded by forum member icerat which specialises in hosting and developing internet communities. Icerat, together with the current forum admins (Darat, Locknar, Lash_L, and Lisa_Simpson) have developed a transition plan which JREF believes protects the privacy and interests of all forum members, as well as the ongoing existence of the forum community. All of the current admins are supportive of the transition plan and will continue their roles at the forum’s new home.

The transition team will post a message outlining the procedure in the next few days.

Ok, cool!

I for one, welcome our ... oh, sod it.
 
What we need is to take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week with all the decisions of that officer having to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major decisions.

You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship. A self-perpetuating autocracy ...

... and don't get me started on the working classes. :mad:
 
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