eVTOL Air Taxi

Notrump

Muse
Notrump
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
807
Location
USA
Archer Aviation (ACHR) is developing eVTOL (electric vertical takeoff & landing) air taxis for fast, safe and quiet short distance flights. First, they had to prove that if the vertical lifting propellers were damaged, their aircraft can still takeoff and land like a conventional airplane. The YouTube video demonstrating that seen below was released today.

 
Last edited:
This would be useful to get between two nearby airports. And the most expensive way to do so. However this is not vertical take off and landing. If it was it could go between the city and the airport as well.
 
rjh01 said:
This would be useful to get between two nearby airports. And the most expensive way to do so. However this is not vertical take off and landing. If it was it could go between the city and the airport as well.
Click to expand...
It will be used almost exclusively for vertical takeoff and landing, as you describe within a city. However, they wanted to prove it's also capable of conventional takeoff and landing in case the vertical lifting propellers fail. Hence the CTOL test in the video.
 
Last edited:
rjh01 said:
This would be useful to get between two nearby airports. And the most expensive way to do so. However this is not vertical take off and landing. If it was it could go between the city and the airport as well.
Click to expand...

Yep, that was my reaction, as well. I mean, it's cool, sure. And I'm the opposite of an expert in aviation. But that didn't look "vertical" at all. Just how planes usually take off, except with a much shorter and steeper incline: but then again this is a much smaller and lighter aircraft than the ones we use as passengers.
 
Notrump said:
It will be used almost exclusively for vertical takeoff and landing, as you describe within a city. However, they wanted to prove it's also capable of conventional takeoff and landing in case the vertical lifting propellers fail. Hence the CTOL test in the video.
Click to expand...

Ah, so the demo wasn't so much of the vertical take-off thing, as of their additional regular take-off capability. That makes sense, then, sure.
 
I do wish they'd just call it an aeroplane. Hell, I'd even accept 'airplane'
 
For those who jumped into the video without first reading my preliminary description, here is an earlier video of the Archer eVTOL aircraft doing vertical takeoff and landing, albeit while remote controlled.

 
Last edited:
Indeed.
It is hard to think how this could be any more useful or scalable than just helicopters, especially better ones.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Indeed.
It is hard to think how this could be any more useful or scalable than just helicopters, especially better ones.
Click to expand...
Are they claiming it's "electric"? I.e., not powered by liquid aviation fuel.

If so, the usefulness would be that it doesn't produce CO2.

VTOL aircraft can maybe have a longer range and go faster than helicopters in that once they get airborne, they can switch to a fixed wing flight mode, which is both faster and more energy efficient than helicopters.
 
Last edited:
Helicopters are energy wasteful, electric or not.
Electric ones will have a short range only, making them useful just for hopping around a city. And that is only necessary because of congestion caused by lack of public transportation.

This whole concept is meant to fix for the wealthy few what is a problem to everyone that could be fixed with established technology.
 
The Airbus Racer in development is much faster and fuel efficient than standard helicopters, thanks to a set of forward propellers.
 
It hasn't been mentioned that helicopters are quite noisy and eVTOL aircraft are rather quiet.
 
Vertical takeoff and landing makes it useful where there's a wide open space to land in, but no easement for a proper runway.

Fixed-wing flight is more efficient for travel, saving energy when rotary-wing vertical lift isn't necessary.

This might make sense as a more efficient replacement for puddle-jumpers between airports in the same region. Fly into the local hub, hop into one of these for the last hundred(?) miles of your trip.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Indeed.
It is hard to think how this could be any more useful or scalable than just helicopters, especially better ones.
Click to expand...
Once it lifts off vertically, it transitions to forward movement and lift from its wings like an airplane. That makes it faster and more energy efficient than a helicopter. Its electric motors and small propellers make it much quieter than a helicopter.
 
Last edited:
And yet it needs the same infrastructure as any helicopter.
Nothing is gained from such a "taxi".

If they are twice as efficient and three times as available, the cost to the environment will be the greater than reserving VTOL for emergencies.
 
Last edited:
The Great Zaganza said:
The Airbus Racer in development is much faster and fuel efficient than standard helicopters, thanks to a set of forward propellers.
Click to expand...
No. This is exactly the opposite. Forward propellers mean more efficient horizontal flight. It mitigates the huge tradeoff between efficiency and convenience that conventional helicopters impose.
 
theprestige said:
This is not necessarily true.
Click to expand...
You may be implying that the generation of electricity generally requires oil or coal. Much of that has long been true, but over time it has been changing as alternative energy advances. I've had a Tesla EV for three years. All recharging had been done in my home garage. My quite young town is entirely powered by its own huge solar farm.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
And yet it needs the same infrastructure as any helicopter.
Nothing is gained from such a "taxi".

If they are twice as efficient and three times as available, the cost to the environment will be the greater than reserving VTOL for emergencies.
Click to expand...

I think they also tend to have a greater range than an equivalent helicopter.

Vaguely related is the V280, which is about 100mph faster and has about double the range of the Black Hawk it replaces. I imagine US special forces units are very excited.
 
Notrump said:
You may be implying that the generation of electricity generally requires oil or coal. Much of that has long been true, but over time it has been changing as alternative energy advances. I've had a Tesla EV for three years. All recharging had been done in my home garage. My quite young town is entirely powered by its own huge solar farm.
Click to expand...
There's also the heavy reliance on rare minerals that require lots of energy and generate lots of pollution to mine and refine.

Plus, "good for the environment" is a much bigger leap than "less bad for the environment".

Personally I find VTOL so generally inefficient that it should never be used outside of pressing need - life flights, military expediency, etc.

Zoom meetings are even better for the environment than EV helicopters.
 
theprestige said:
...Personally I find VTOL so generally inefficient that it should never be used outside of pressing need - life flights, military expediency, etc...
Click to expand...
Archer perceives the need is for moving faster and safer above road traffic within a metropolitan area while remaining relatively quiet.
 
Last edited:
Notrump said:
Archer perceives the need is for moving faster and safer above road traffic within a metropolitan area while remaining relatively quiet.
Click to expand...
Archer is hoping to peddle a solution in search of a problem.

The actual solution to helicopter taxis is to deprecate helicopter taxis.

The actual solution to road traffic within a metropolitan area is more mass transit and fewer easements for private vehicles.

The actual solution for getting from one side of a metro to the other, quickly and safely and without road traffic, is a zoom meeting.

An EV VTOL life flight makes sense. An EV VTOL police air unit makes sense. An EV VTOL air taxi is a wart.
 
Electric flight won't really happen until we have batteries of higher energy density.
MIT is getting closer:
news.mit.edu

New fuel cell could enable electric aviation

MIT engineers developed a fuel cell that offers more than three times as much energy per pound compared to lithium-ion batteries. Powered by a reaction between sodium metal and air, the device could be lightweight enough to enable the electrification of airplanes, trucks, or ships.
news.mit.edu news.mit.edu

But until you can build an electric transatlantic/pacific passenger plane, electric flight won't really be anything but an oddity.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Electric flight won't really happen until we have batteries of higher energy density.
MIT is getting closer:
news.mit.edu

New fuel cell could enable electric aviation

MIT engineers developed a fuel cell that offers more than three times as much energy per pound compared to lithium-ion batteries. Powered by a reaction between sodium metal and air, the device could be lightweight enough to enable the electrification of airplanes, trucks, or ships.
news.mit.edu news.mit.edu

But until you can build an electric transatlantic/pacific passenger plane, electric flight won't really be anything but an oddity.
Click to expand...
Electric flight is already far more than an oddity, in the low-weight/high-value niche. It's absolutely revolutionizing warfare, for example.

One of my quibbles is that it's not particularly good for mundane people/cargo transport.
 
I've been subscribing to Aviation Week magazine since I started working at Boeing. In recent years there've been articles about various companies trying to produce these in pretty much every issue. I'll believe it when I see them in commercial service.
 
Fine for niche or military use. In the hands of trust fund brats, expect it to start raining champagne bottles, beer cans and condoms. Fun!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom