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Evolution in Canadian Schools

X

Slide Rulez 4 Life
X
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Oct 17, 2007
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TL/DR version: skip to highlighted line
A few days ago I got into a slightly heated discussion with my sister. We were talking about what is, is not, can and can not be taught in schools here in Canada. For background, she will soon graduate with an education degree (English major) to complement her phys. ed. degree. She mentioned that even evolution can not be taught in schools in Canada (excepting Quebec). Not only can't it be taught, it can't even be mentioned.

I've done some background checking (ongoing), and this appear to be the case throughout most of Canada. Especially the prairies, where we live.

When she mentioned that it can't be taught, I was amazed, and proclaimed that to be ridiculous, and an excuse for ignorance. It was at that point that things got odd.

My sister proclaimed that:

1) Evolution was just a theory, and so is creationism, so they are both valid science. She got this information from one of her profs, but was unable to actually articulate the "theory" of creationism, other than to insist it was a valid scientific theory. Apparently, that's the party line teachers are taught.

2) They still haven't found "the" missing link between ape and man. She said they have a very complete hominid line, but they still hadn't found the one missing link (they know what geologic layer is must lie at, but can't find it) that would connect the chain to man.

3) Evolution is only a theory (again), and has not been proven.

4) That I would never be able to teach in a classroom, because I am incapable of being unbiased about the issue (granted, but my objection to it is that creationism doesn't warrant an unbiased approach).

5) Evolution isn't that important. Certainly not important enough to teach in high school or earlier. If students want to learn about it, they can go to university and take biology.

6) It might be offensive to some kid's religious beliefs, and therefore shouldn't be taught.

7) Even mentioning it would get a teacher fired probably before the end of the class.

8) Evolution can't explain how life began.

9) Evolution is just my "opinion". Some people "believe evolution", other "believe creation", and both are valid science.


Throughout this discussion, I confirmed a few things I'd suspected about my sister and learned a few new things.

Among the confirmed is that she really doesn't understand logical fallacies. I doubt she knows about them as a concept, as her arguments were rife with arguments from authority, arguments from ignorance, and ad hominem attacks.

Among the learned was that she doesn't actually know what "theory" means in scientific terms, that she doesn't know what the theory of evolution states (other than the broadest terms of animals changing), that she has never heard of ring species (and that they "don't matter"), and that she doesn't know what creationism (or ID) actually states.

Now, this isn't the first time I've gotten into an argument with her only to discover she doesn't even understand the position she's supporting. Last time it was after the Climategate" letters; a situation in which she knew only of "some e-mails proving global warming was a hoax", but not what the letters said or meant. As if happened, I knew far more about those e-mails than she did, but as I'm "not a scientist", my opinion didn't matter".

That aside, I was genuinely astonished to learn that evolution is not taught in Canadian schools. I swear we covered the gist of it in Junior High (Gr 7 & 8) at the Catholic school I attended at the time. Apparently not. We covered pre-historic species and the Cambrian explosion, but evolution was never mentioned. I didn't take biology in high school, so I had no idea what topics it covered.

Frankly, this is doing the children of Canada a disservice. Kids in the U.S. learn more about than we do! Shameful! (No offense intended to Americans).


So, long story aside, here's my quandary:
This is an issue I would like to become involved in. Teaching science and critical thinking are important to me. Seeing the school system bow before religious sensitivities by removing valid science from the classroom and encouraging the belief that it's all opinion and unproven, bothers me.

But if I do, and my name becomes known, what are the chances of that affecting my sister's ability to find work as a teacher after she graduates?

I should point out that Canada does not have an official separation of church and state.
 
X said:
TL/DR version: skip to highlighted line
A few days ago I got into a slightly heated discussion with my sister. We were talking about what is, is not, can and can not be taught in schools here in Canada. For background, she will soon graduate with an education degree (English major) to complement her phys. ed. degree. She mentioned that even evolution can not be taught in schools in Canada (excepting Quebec). Not only can't it be taught, it can't even be mentioned.

I've done some background checking (ongoing), and this appear to be the case throughout most of Canada. Especially the prairies, where we live.

When she mentioned that it can't be taught, I was amazed, and proclaimed that to be ridiculous, and an excuse for ignorance. It was at that point that things got odd.

My sister proclaimed that:

1) Evolution was just a theory, and so is creationism, so they are both valid science. She got this information from one of her profs, but was unable to actually articulate the "theory" of creationism, other than to insist it was a valid scientific theory. Apparently, that's the party line teachers are taught.

2) They still haven't found "the" missing link between ape and man. She said they have a very complete hominid line, but they still hadn't found the one missing link (they know what geologic layer is must lie at, but can't find it) that would connect the chain to man.

3) Evolution is only a theory (again), and has not been proven.

4) That I would never be able to teach in a classroom, because I am incapable of being unbiased about the issue (granted, but my objection to it is that creationism doesn't warrant an unbiased approach).

5) Evolution isn't that important. Certainly not important enough to teach in high school or earlier. If students want to learn about it, they can go to university and take biology.

6) It might be offensive to some kid's religious beliefs, and therefore shouldn't be taught.

7) Even mentioning it would get a teacher fired probably before the end of the class.

8) Evolution can't explain how life began.

9) Evolution is just my "opinion". Some people "believe evolution", other "believe creation", and both are valid science.


Throughout this discussion, I confirmed a few things I'd suspected about my sister and learned a few new things.

Among the confirmed is that she really doesn't understand logical fallacies. I doubt she knows about them as a concept, as her arguments were rife with arguments from authority, arguments from ignorance, and ad hominem attacks.

Among the learned was that she doesn't actually know what "theory" means in scientific terms, that she doesn't know what the theory of evolution states (other than the broadest terms of animals changing), that she has never heard of ring species (and that they "don't matter"), and that she doesn't know what creationism (or ID) actually states.

Now, this isn't the first time I've gotten into an argument with her only to discover she doesn't even understand the position she's supporting. Last time it was after the Climategate" letters; a situation in which she knew only of "some e-mails proving global warming was a hoax", but not what the letters said or meant. As if happened, I knew far more about those e-mails than she did, but as I'm "not a scientist", my opinion didn't matter".

That aside, I was genuinely astonished to learn that evolution is not taught in Canadian schools. I swear we covered the gist of it in Junior High (Gr 7 & 8) at the Catholic school I attended at the time. Apparently not. We covered pre-historic species and the Cambrian explosion, but evolution was never mentioned. I didn't take biology in high school, so I had no idea what topics it covered.

Frankly, this is doing the children of Canada a disservice. Kids in the U.S. learn more about than we do! Shameful! (No offense intended to Americans).


So, long story aside, here's my quandary:
This is an issue I would like to become involved in. Teaching science and critical thinking are important to me. Seeing the school system bow before religious sensitivities by removing valid science from the classroom and encouraging the belief that it's all opinion and unproven, bothers me.

But if I do, and my name becomes known, what are the chances of that affecting my sister's ability to find work as a teacher after she graduates?

I should point out that Canada does not have an official separation of church and state.
Click to expand...

I think you sister might just be wrong or maybe its a prairies thing. I thought/hoped creationism in schools was largely an american problem.

My personal experience from Catholic Elementary school in British Columbia was they taught about the Big Bang theory and evolution but they added it was because of God. When I attended public high school (still in BC), evolution was discussed matter of factly in science class though not in depth. We covered the scopes trial in english class. A couple of my friends and family who took Bio 11 and 12 were instructed in evolutionary theory. AFAIK in BC, evolution is a fact for most people. BC does have its fair amount of woo beliefs though and a couple strongholds of ignorance. Oddly enough, I think creationism might have a better chance of flourishing in Canada due to our dogmatic political correctness. After all some people are offended by evolutionary theory and FSM forbid somebody has their feelings hurt in the modern age.

I'm pretty sure we have separation of church and state in Canada, it's more implicit then explicit though.
 
Here in BC, it's the third subject studied in Grade 11 biology, right behind "Processes of Science" and "Taxonomy."

X, I think your sister was orating from her nether orifice.
 
I haven't looked at this issue for a few years now, but the last time I did, I recall that evolution was required to be taught in Ontario public schools as part of the science curriculum, and even in publicly funded Catholic schools as part of the science curriculum. Creationism, on the other hand, was not permitted to be discussed in science classes or in any other part of the public school curriculum. (Although it was permitted to be discussed in religious studies classes in publicly funded Catholic schools, but even then, publicly funded Catholic schools were still required to teach evolution in science classes and could not get around that).

That was a few years ago (when John Tory put his foot in it during the 2007 election campaign by saying that the conservatives would provide an additional $400 million dollars in funding to faith-based schools and permit them to teach Creationism since "evolution is only a theory" etc., and suggesting that these faith-based schools would not have to conform to the Ontario school curriculum), but so far as I know, the curriculum viz evolution and creationism remains the same. No teaching creationism in public schools, period; no teaching creationism in publicly funded Catholic schools except in religious studies classes, and publicly funded Catholic schools are still required to teach evolution in science classes.

My eldest nephew is a fairly new high school teacher in the public school system, so perhaps I'll ask him for an update, just to be sure.
 
I was taught evolution in grade 9 science class in Calgary, AB.

That was something like 15 years ago, but just thought I'd throw it out there.
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
A quick Google shows that evolution by natural selection is part of the high school education curriculum in the Province of Ontario:

http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/curriculum/secondary/environ9to12curr.pdf

I did not do a search on the K-8 curriculum or for "intelligent design". Others may wish to do either or both and report their results.
Click to expand...


Thanks for that. Never occurred to me that the curriculum might be available online. Don't know why I missed such an obvious idea.

It turns out that in my province, evolution is part of the 12 grade curricula.


And thanks to everyone who replied.
 
X said:
Thanks for that. Never occurred to me that the curriculum might be available online. Don't know why I missed such an obvious idea.

It turns out that in my province, evolution is part of the 12 grade curricula.


And thanks to everyone who replied.
Click to expand...

Now take this information and rub it in your sister's face!
 
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Evolution was just a theory, and so is creationism, so they are both valid science. She got this information from one of her profs, but was unable to actually articulate the "theory" of creationism, other than to insist it was a valid scientific theory. Apparently, that's the party line teachers are taught.
Click to expand...
That's the problem with the "PC" world we live in today. Any lunatic idea gets "equal time" with accepted science.
 
Robrob said:
That's the problem with the "PC" world we live in today. Any lunatic idea gets "equal time" with accepted science.
Click to expand...

Not really, if schools teach about the theory of evolution but not the theory of intelligent design.

It always seemed to me that at the K-12 level there are obvious workarounds. In science class you learn about the history of science, so why not just state that "Darwin theorized that species developed through a process of natural selection"? That's a fact, even if kids aren't explicitly told, "Darwin was right."

I don't even mind a curriculum saying that "many people disagreed with Darwin, based on their religion, but instead put forth a theory of 'intelligent design' saying species were tailored by a creator." It becomes pretty clear that ID doesn't suggest further lines of inquiry, while Darwinism does.

I got a great high school education but can't really remember getting too much into Darwin's theories. You didn't need them to dissect a frog.

Do high school kids still dissect frogs?
 
Minoosh said:
Not really, if schools teach about the theory of evolution but not the theory of intelligent design.

It always seemed to me that at the K-12 level there are obvious workarounds. In science class you learn about the history of science, so why not just state that "Darwin theorized that species developed through a process of natural selection"? That's a fact, even if kids aren't explicitly told, "Darwin was right."

I don't even mind a curriculum saying that "many people disagreed with Darwin, based on their religion, but instead put forth a theory of 'intelligent design' saying species were tailored by a creator." It becomes pretty clear that ID doesn't suggest further lines of inquiry, while Darwinism does.

I got a great high school education but can't really remember getting too much into Darwin's theories. You didn't need them to dissect a frog.

Do high school kids still dissect frogs?
Click to expand...

When I was in high school we dissected a sheep's eye instead.
 
X said:
2) They still haven't found "the" missing link between ape and man. She said they have a very complete hominid line, but they still hadn't found the one missing link (they know what geologic layer is must lie at, but can't find it) that would connect the chain to man.
Click to expand...

Huh? So she admits evolution happens, but denies humans evolved?
 
I looked this up when I saw it. I couldn't see anything to indicate that teaching evolution is completely prohibited, but it seems to be limited to a single elective class in 12th grade.
 
epepke said:
I looked this up when I saw it. I couldn't see anything to indicate that teaching evolution is completely prohibited, but it seems to be limited to a single elective class in 12th grade.
Click to expand...

Where did you look? :confused:
 
X said:
TL/DR version: skip to highlighted line
A few days ago I got into a slightly heated discussion with my sister. We were talking about what is, is not, can and can not be taught in schools here in Canada. For background, she will soon graduate with an education degree (English major) to complement her phys. ed. degree. She mentioned that even evolution can not be taught in schools in Canada (excepting Quebec). Not only can't it be taught, it can't even be mentioned.

I've done some background checking (ongoing), and this appear to be the case throughout most of Canada. Especially the prairies, where we live.

When she mentioned that it can't be taught, I was amazed, and proclaimed that to be ridiculous, and an excuse for ignorance. It was at that point that things got odd.

My sister proclaimed that:

1) Evolution was just a theory, and so is creationism, so they are both valid science. She got this information from one of her profs, but was unable to actually articulate the "theory" of creationism, other than to insist it was a valid scientific theory. Apparently, that's the party line teachers are taught.

2) They still haven't found "the" missing link between ape and man. She said they have a very complete hominid line, but they still hadn't found the one missing link (they know what geologic layer is must lie at, but can't find it) that would connect the chain to man.

3) Evolution is only a theory (again), and has not been proven.

4) That I would never be able to teach in a classroom, because I am incapable of being unbiased about the issue (granted, but my objection to it is that creationism doesn't warrant an unbiased approach).

5) Evolution isn't that important. Certainly not important enough to teach in high school or earlier. If students want to learn about it, they can go to university and take biology.

6) It might be offensive to some kid's religious beliefs, and therefore shouldn't be taught.

7) Even mentioning it would get a teacher fired probably before the end of the class.

8) Evolution can't explain how life began.

9) Evolution is just my "opinion". Some people "believe evolution", other "believe creation", and both are valid science.


Throughout this discussion, I confirmed a few things I'd suspected about my sister and learned a few new things.

Among the confirmed is that she really doesn't understand logical fallacies. I doubt she knows about them as a concept, as her arguments were rife with arguments from authority, arguments from ignorance, and ad hominem attacks.

Among the learned was that she doesn't actually know what "theory" means in scientific terms, that she doesn't know what the theory of evolution states (other than the broadest terms of animals changing), that she has never heard of ring species (and that they "don't matter"), and that she doesn't know what creationism (or ID) actually states.

Now, this isn't the first time I've gotten into an argument with her only to discover she doesn't even understand the position she's supporting. Last time it was after the Climategate" letters; a situation in which she knew only of "some e-mails proving global warming was a hoax", but not what the letters said or meant. As if happened, I knew far more about those e-mails than she did, but as I'm "not a scientist", my opinion didn't matter".

That aside, I was genuinely astonished to learn that evolution is not taught in Canadian schools. I swear we covered the gist of it in Junior High (Gr 7 & 8) at the Catholic school I attended at the time. Apparently not. We covered pre-historic species and the Cambrian explosion, but evolution was never mentioned. I didn't take biology in high school, so I had no idea what topics it covered.

Frankly, this is doing the children of Canada a disservice. Kids in the U.S. learn more about than we do! Shameful! (No offense intended to Americans).


So, long story aside, here's my quandary:
This is an issue I would like to become involved in. Teaching science and critical thinking are important to me. Seeing the school system bow before religious sensitivities by removing valid science from the classroom and encouraging the belief that it's all opinion and unproven, bothers me.

But if I do, and my name becomes known, what are the chances of that affecting my sister's ability to find work as a teacher after she graduates?

I should point out that Canada does not have an official separation of church and state.
Click to expand...

utter nonsense.
i taught high school in alberta for many years.
evolution is part of biology curriculum.
your sister does not have a clue what she is talking about.......sorry.
 
X said:
8) Evolution can't explain how life began.
Click to expand...

Hey look, she had a stopped clock moment... though technically it would be "doesn't" instead of "can't".

X said:
But if I do, and my name becomes known, what are the chances of that affecting my sister's ability to find work as a teacher after she graduates?
Click to expand...

To be honest, after reading your OP, I don't think the things you say and do are going to be the problem.
 
Minoosh said:
Not really, if schools teach about the theory of evolution but not the theory of intelligent design.

It always seemed to me that at the K-12 level there are obvious workarounds. In science class you learn about the history of science, so why not just state that "Darwin theorized that species developed through a process of natural selection"? That's a fact, even if kids aren't explicitly told, "Darwin was right."

I don't even mind a curriculum saying that "many people disagreed with Darwin, based on their religion, but instead put forth a theory of 'intelligent design' saying species were tailored by a creator." It becomes pretty clear that ID doesn't suggest further lines of inquiry, while Darwinism does.
Click to expand...

Why do they need to be taught that? Is it necessary to understanding the science? If not, why include it in a science class?

Sometimes "history of science" is valuable for making the science more interesting, or putting it into a more accessible context, but I don't see how that applies here.

I mean, when we teach the theory of relativity do we need to point out that Anders Lindman thinks it's a conspiracy by shadow powers to hide knowledge of free energy from the public while scaring them with what he thinks is a non-existent nuclear bomb? Personally I think high school science classes are there to teach science, in whatever way they can most efficiently do that.
 
I'm Canadian and I'm pretty sure we studied evolution in school. An I'm sure god wasn't mentioned in class.
 
Another Albertan here who was taught evolution in Biology class with no mention of God.
 
bikerdruid said:
i went to a catholic high school in calgary from 69 to 72.
althought there was prayer, and religion class, biology was strictly science, complete with evolution.
Click to expand...
85 to 88 for me in the St. Albert protestant system. I've been in Ontario for 7 years now and I constantly encounter people who can't shake the conviction that life in Alberta is like a scene from Deliverance. Oh Ontario...you so crazy.
 
I had never heard about Creationism or Intelligent Design until the late 90's.
 
D'rok said:
85 to 88 for me in the St. Albert protestant system. I've been in Ontario for 7 years now and I constantly encounter people who can't shake the conviction that life in Alberta is like a scene from Deliverance. Oh Ontario...you so crazy.
Click to expand...

Just remind them which provinces are the "have" provinces :) usually makes them reconsider the west.
 
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I don't think she was touting Creationism. At least, not the Creationism that most people mean by the term. In fact, I'm not sure she even knew what position she was arguing. Just that one of her profs, who's studying the subject, said creationism was valid science and therefore, being a prof, must be right.

However, it's good to know I was worried over nothing.
 
D'rok said:
85 to 88 for me in the St. Albert protestant system. I've been in Ontario for 7 years now and I constantly encounter people who can't shake the conviction that life in Alberta is like a scene from Deliverance. Oh Ontario...you so crazy.
Click to expand...


I'd wager there are folks in Alberta who have strange views of what goes on in Ontario.
 
Evolution can't explain how life began.

Additionally, history cannot explain the formation of oxbow lakes, and english literature can't explain the political impact of the Louisiana Purchase.

Mathematics is silent on the use of irregular verbs in French.
 
In high school (and probably junior high school, but I don't recall specifics), there was definitely mention of Darwin, ToE, natural selection, genetics, etc. In my world history class, we discussed differing beliefs on the matter (creationism, theistic evolutionism, etc.), and looked at the various human ancestors up to Cro Magnon, if memory serves. That was about 18 to 20 years ago, in Nova Scotia. I'm assuming things haven't changed that much since then.
 
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