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Cont: Electric Vehicles II

These must be recent installations because the last time I scoped out Norton Canes there was nothing worth stopping for. I did see something useful at a nearby McDonald's but never needed to charge there. Tebay wasn't that bad, the queue wasn't that long and it didn't interfere with anyone else. I think it was just a very busy day at a very busy time. By the time I went back to the chargers about 3.30 the queue had more or less cleared. I've charged there before several times, recently, and had no trouble.

I suppose I should have done what I did last year and gone to Booth's supermarket or the Rheged Centre, which people seem to have been ignoring this year in favour of Tebay. But the Tebay chargers are faster and with there being 16 of them it seemed more attractive. To everybody.
 
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I believe the MG4 is only rated to tow 500 kg, so that's probably not going to be enough for some people.
The car trailer weighs in at 600kg empty, and the horse float is a hefty 980kg empty- so the MG wouldn't be able to drop them off or pick them up- where the Atto could... (hell, I could even chuck 600kg on the car trailer, ie sheets of plywood or the like if I need some from the hardware store...)
 
I travelled on the M6 Toll on Sunday and Monday. I usually stop at the toll road services as there is a "country walk" for the dog there - we also get a McDonalds each - our guilty pleasure. I turned off for the services and on both days there was a standstill queue on the slip road into it. On Monday at the roundabout there was a couple of employees and I asked them what was the matter - they said the whole place was log jammed as people tried to use the electric car charging points, been like it for almost a week. I went around the roundabout and straight back onto the motorway both days. The dog was most upset. Plan your M6 excursions carefully. Had to look the name up - it's called Norton Canes.
We used the chargers there for the first time just over a year ago on our trip to Manchester for QEDCon, with no problems (and in fact the cost was less than the charger we had planned to use in the car park in Manchester). On the way up this year, there was a queue, though we eventually got to use one after about 30 minutes. There are only 2 chargers there, each with two cables, though one of them has a Type 2 and a Chademo, and very few cars use Chademo so effectively only 3 working charging points. They really should have installed more chargers at such a busy service station by now. On the way home we stopped somewhere further on where there were many more chargers.
 
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We used the chargers there for the first time just over a year ago on our trip to Manchester for QEDCon, with no problems (and in fact the cost was less than the charger we had planned to use in the car park in Manchester). On the way up this year, there was a queue, though we eventually got to use one after about 30 minutes. There are only 2 chargers there, each with two cables, though one of them has a Type 2 and a Chademo, and very few cars use Chademo so effectively only 3 working charging points. They really should have installed more chargers at such a busy service station by now. On the way home we stopped somewhere further on where there were many more chargers.
Surprised there are still any CHAdeMO chargers still around, its restricted to a small handful of older vehicles (basically only the early Leaf here in Australia) and even they now use CCs2 Combo here... (as does the Tesla lol)
As usual, the US has gone its own way and used the proprietary Tesla 'cloverleaf' charge port, where 'TROTW' is basically CCS2...
 
We used the chargers there for the first time just over a year ago on our trip to Manchester for QEDCon, with no problems (and in fact the cost was less than the charger we had planned to use in the car park in Manchester). On the way up this year, there was a queue, though we eventually got to use one after about 30 minutes. There are only 2 chargers there, each with two cables, though one of them has a Type 2 and a Chademo, and very few cars use Chademo so effectively only 3 working charging points. They really should have installed more chargers at such a busy service station by now. On the way home we stopped somewhere further on where there were many more chargers.

That sounds like the old Electric Highway set-up, which is what I said wasn't worth going there for. If that's still all they have, and people were trying to use them, no wonder there was a problem. You'd get about 22 kw per car. [Rolfe checks ZapMap.] Sure enough, that's still all that's there. Oh dear. You'd have to be very inexperienced even to consider charging there. 22 kw. I do feel sorry for anyone who went there.

Gridserve have pledged to keep these old units maintained, because they're quite adequate for older cars. But there is a programme of adding higher power chargers to these sites as well. (Some of them have CHAdeMO too.) They don't seem to have done Norton Canes yet. What a mess.
 
Our 2nd gen Leaf* has Chademo, but we don't use it for long journeys, so we won't need that extra charging power any time soon

*seven years old in March. Not bad service
 
Apart from the infotainment system going nuts, which meant it had to go back to the Netherlands, and the inevitable flat 12v battery, it's been plain sailing. I see a few 1st gen Leafs still running
 
I remember scoping out Norton Canes last May, as a possible backstop in case I was doubtful of making the Tesla supercharger site in Solihull. I quickly decided the service station itself was a complete bust, but saw a nearby McDonald's with a couple of useful-looking Instavolts. There's also the NEC charging hub, but their BP Pulse chargers have a poor reputation.

In fact I didn't need to worry because I made Solihull quite easily and spent half an hour looking at high-end Teslas in the showroom. But there's no way I'd have gone to Norton Canes services even midweek in May when there was no holiday traffic. Absolutely inadequate.

There are quite a lot of decent options around, close to the motorway, but you need to know how to find what's there, avoid the dud sites (like motorway service stations with nothing but the old Electric Highway installation) and choose the good ones. One day it will be possible simply to drive into any motorway service station and find plenty ultra-rapids waiting for you. That day, however, has not yet come.

I do feel sorry for people who have recently got an EV and who not only don't have the experience to find the good chargers, but don't even know they need to know this stuff. It's not good for anyone because it perpetuates all the horror stories about bad charging experiences.

Even in my own case, seeing that the Electric Highway site at the Rheged Centre was free as I passed, maybe I should just have gone there as I did last year. It's part of the same outfit as Tebay services and I'd have got the same food and been able to use my loyalty card. But I thought, if I end up on a shared plug (which I didn't last year) and get 22 kw I'll be there for ages. Tebay has 16 150 kw chargers, why wouldn't I? I just didn't anticipate it would be quite so busy, and then getting the broken charger. But at least I'm used to it and know that's the exception not the rule. Not a lot of fun if it's your first long trip in your shiny new car.
 
I just didn't anticipate it would be quite so busy, and then getting the broken charger.
The free charger will always be the broken one. That's why it's not in use!

What surprises me is how often people say they got a 'broken' charger. The technology isn't that complicated, so why do they 'break'? Seems like a problem that should be easy to solve.
 
The free charger will always be the broken one. That's why it's not in use!

What surprises me is how often people say they got a 'broken' charger. The technology isn't that complicated, so why do they 'break'? Seems like a problem that should be easy to solve.

If you'd read my earlier post, you'd have seen that there were no free chargers, there was an efficiently-marshalled queue with actual tickets, and an engineer from Swarco on-site to attend to any mechanical problems with the chargers. It was just my bad luck that the one I was waved into was one that had just been "repaired", but obviously still had a problem as it broke down again while I was on it.

Nevertheless after I was moved to another charger and returned to my car after finishing my coffee, the one I had been on was working again and charging another car.

These DC chargers are quite complicated things, I think. It was very foresighted of them to have an engineer physically on-site on such a busy afternoon.
 
I went out for a drive this morning and I was taking note of the number of Teslas and BYDs about. It was like every third or fourth car was one or the other, in about equal numbers.
 
I went out for a drive this morning and I was taking note of the number of Teslas and BYDs about. It was like every third or fourth car was one or the other, in about equal numbers.
Teslas seem to be more prevalent in the more affluent suburbs, but out in the rural areas, BYD is king...
(locally, we got 4 BYD, 1 MG and zero Teslas, with another BYD (T3) arriving in Jan...)
Not bad for a tiny rural town of only 1500 people!!!
:-O
 
That sounds like the old Electric Highway set-up, which is what I said wasn't worth going there for. If that's still all they have, and people were trying to use them, no wonder there was a problem. You'd get about 22 kw per car. [Rolfe checks ZapMap.] Sure enough, that's still all that's there. Oh dear. You'd have to be very inexperienced even to consider charging there. 22 kw. I do feel sorry for anyone who went there.

Gridserve have pledged to keep these old units maintained, because they're quite adequate for older cars. But there is a programme of adding higher power chargers to these sites as well. (Some of them have CHAdeMO too.) They don't seem to have done Norton Canes yet. What a mess.
Well, thank you for your concern. As I said, we'd had no problem on the identical journey the year before, when we just wanted to charge for a bit while we had a rest stop and a bite to eat, and hadn't considered the possible increase in EV ownership in the meantime, and lack of expansion in the facilities. We rarely need to charge away from home, so clearly don't have our fingers on the pulse as you do.
 
Unfortunately you need to have your finger on the pulse to some extent, given the wildly varying charger provision out there. All charging sites are not equal, by a very long way.
 
Exact same with me (Renault Zoe purchased March 2022).
I got my Kia Niro not long after that, and I've done about 44,000 miles in it since then. Since free charging stopped being available at car parks and supermarkets, I've only charged at public chargers a handful of times (trips to Manchester and Wales). We used a granny charger for a long time, until we got an Ohme installed through Octopus.
 
I live in the US. Washington State to be exact. I don't have an EV, but eventually expect to purchase one

I see a lot of Teslas, a few Nissan Leafs, a few Chevy Bolts and little else. I know that Ford sells the Lightning, but I've read that Ford stopped production. There seem to be few charging stations other than Tesla charging stations. I do see a few 1 or two car chargers at various store parking lots. I don't think we have the variety of EV options that appear to be available in Europe. When there is a relatively inexpensive EV available I expect to buy one. And at the same time add about 10KW more of solar panels.

My problem is that I refuse to buy a Tesla even though it makes the most sense. I think Musk is one of the most dangerous people on earth. I see him as a threat to humanity.
 
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Teslas are a luxury car over here. I live in a very affluent area and Teslas are very common, when I go to visit my mother - who lives in a less affluent area but certainly not a poor area and you don't see many at all.
 
I see a marked decrease in the big power gas cars like the Mustang and Charger, a marked increase in new top line not-Tesla EV cars on the road. All the luxury options in what appear to be a cookie cutter Chinese model. Home changing is very important here as charging stations aren't appearing anywhere.

As India and China pull away from mototaxis and the cargo versions México seems to be bringing more in for the po'boy market that needs a car but smog tests took out the cheap options. A few are EV types but they are pretty poor long term. Gasoline still rules the low end market.
 
Teslas are a luxury car over here. I live in a very affluent area and Teslas are very common, when I go to visit my mother - who lives in a less affluent area but certainly not a poor area and you don't see many at all.
They are here too.
 
I used to see a lot of Teslas around here but not recently; it's more Merc EQ*s, a few big Skodas like mine, and ID4s and 5s. I like the look of the Merc EQB and might look at that for my next car.
 
I used to see a lot of Teslas around here but not recently; it's more Merc EQ*s, a few big Skodas like mine, and ID4s and 5s. I like the look of the Merc EQB and might look at that for my next car.
The Mercs here cost 3 times more than I paid for my 40 acre property!!!!
:jaw-dropp
The cheapest secondhand one I found was a eyewatering $70k Au for a 2020 model!!!
You could literally buy two new MG4's for the same price, or a brand new Shark hybrid (an actual 4wd hybrid ute) and have enough left over for a holiday in the UK from Australia...
1735244425148.png

As for the price of a new one...
The CHEAPEST was a hair under $180k!!!!
Double :jaw-dropp
1735244046466.png

For the price, you could buy120 acres of bushland here, or you could buy enough MG4's that you could drive a different one to work every day of the week!!!!
1735244285679.png
1735244326913.png
(the cheapest Tesla starts at $54k for the base package RWD Model 3... so effectively almost double the price of a MG4)
 
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Prices for EV models Washington State
The average price for a new EV is around $55,353. Cadillac OPTIQ Luxury 2: MSRP of $55,095 with a range of 300 miles
Audi e-tron GT Prestige: MSRP of $114,500 with a range of 249 miles
Hyundai IONIQ 5 SEL AWD: MSRP of $53,000 with a range of 260 miles
Toyota bZ4X Limited FWD: MSRP of $47,180 with a range of 236 miles
Kia EV9 GT-Line AWD: MSRP of $73,900 with a range of 270 miles
Genesis GV60 Performance AWD: MSRP of $69,900 with a range of 235 miles
Genesis GV60 Advanced AWD: MSRP of $60,900 with a range of 248 miles
Tesla Y MSRP of $42,610 with a range of 330 miles
There are substantial government rebates.
 
Prices for EV models Washington State
The average price for a new EV is around $55,353. Cadillac OPTIQ Luxury 2: MSRP of $55,095 with a range of 300 miles
Audi e-tron GT Prestige: MSRP of $114,500 with a range of 249 miles
Hyundai IONIQ 5 SEL AWD: MSRP of $53,000 with a range of 260 miles
Toyota bZ4X Limited FWD: MSRP of $47,180 with a range of 236 miles
Kia EV9 GT-Line AWD: MSRP of $73,900 with a range of 270 miles
Genesis GV60 Performance AWD: MSRP of $69,900 with a range of 235 miles
Genesis GV60 Advanced AWD: MSRP of $60,900 with a range of 248 miles
Tesla Y MSRP of $42,610 with a range of 330 miles
There are substantial government rebates.
No BYD models? Now the biggest manufacturer of EV's in the world. Unless they are sold under a different brand name?
 
Teslas are pretty marmite. If you don't want one for whatever reason, there are plenty decent options.

The MG4 is great value for money and I love mine to bits, but it's not available in America. Maybe BYD isn't either.
 
My problem is that I refuse to buy a Tesla even though it makes the most sense. I think Musk is one of the most dangerous people on earth. I see him as a threat to humanity.
More proof that humans, even the best of us, are more ruled by emotion than logic.

Musk is dangerous for sure, but not as dangerous as apathy in the face of an existential threat (global warming). Right now we need people who aren't afraid to be disruptive. If only 'the left' hadn't pushed him away for emotional reasons we could have harnessed that power. Your attitude isn't helping.
 
Teslas are pretty marmite. If you don't want one for whatever reason, there are plenty decent options.

The MG4 is great value for money and I love mine to bits, but it's not available in America. Maybe BYD isn't either.
Marmite? I have never heard that word.
I don't think either BYD or the MG is available here.

In theory the Tesla Model Y is the cheapest EV selling in the US today. I say in theory because options etc jack the price up. My experience with car shopping is you can never get the base model of any vehicle. Companies say they are available, but never actually are. There are also Federal and Washington State government rebates that could subtract as much as $16,500 from the price. If you qualify for them.
 
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Prices for EV models Washington State
The average price for a new EV is around $55,353. Cadillac OPTIQ Luxury 2: MSRP of $55,095 with a range of 300 miles
Audi e-tron GT Prestige: MSRP of $114,500 with a range of 249 miles
Hyundai IONIQ 5 SEL AWD: MSRP of $53,000 with a range of 260 miles
Toyota bZ4X Limited FWD: MSRP of $47,180 with a range of 236 miles
Kia EV9 GT-Line AWD: MSRP of $73,900 with a range of 270 miles
Genesis GV60 Performance AWD: MSRP of $69,900 with a range of 235 miles
Genesis GV60 Advanced AWD: MSRP of $60,900 with a range of 248 miles
Tesla Y MSRP of $42,610 with a range of 330 miles
There are substantial government rebates.
Interesting. Tesla Model Y seems to be the clear winner. I wouldn't touch any of the others on your list.

Some prices in New Zealand (US$ at exchange rate of 0.56, including 15% GST, no rebates!):-
GWM Ora 192 miles $17,354 (-11.4%)
KGM Torres EVX 287 miles $25,194 (-25%)
Toyota bZ4X Pure 274 miles $32,474 (-20%)
Tesla Model Y 282 miles $36,904
Kia EV9 GT-Line 314 miles $55,994
Hyundai IONIQ 5 77 Limited 282 miles $66,074
Audi e-tron GT quattro 305 miles $116,250

Discounts of up to 25% in the last 2 months reflect the poor market here since the new National government started putting the boot into EVs as promised. Good news for anyone wanting to buy an EV in New Zealand right now - take advantage of stupid public sentiment! The GWM Ora is a bargain. I don't know much about the KGM Torres EVX, but it looks like a bargain too. Unfortunately all the half-price Nissan Leafs have now gone.
 
Marmite? I have never heard that word.
I don't think either BYD or the MG is available here.

In theory the Tesla Model Y is the cheapest EV selling in the US today. I say in theory because options etc jack the price up. My experience with car shopping is you can never get the base model of any vehicle. Companies say they are available, but never actually are. There are also Federal and Washington State government rebates that could subtract as much as $17,500 from the price. If you qualify for them.

Marmite is a sort of meat extract that people, legendarily, either love or hate.

My base model MG4 cost £26,950 new in April 2023. You can get them cheaper now. No way could I possibly have afforded a Model Y.
 
Interesting. Tesla Model Y seems to be the clear winner. I wouldn't touch any of the others on your list.

Some prices in New Zealand (US$ at exchange rate of 0.56, including 15% GST, no rebates!):-
GWM Ora 192 miles $17,354 (-11.4%)
KGM Torres EVX 287 miles $25,194 (-25%)
Toyota bZ4X Pure 274 miles $32,474 (-20%)
Tesla Model Y 282 miles $36,904
Kia EV9 GT-Line 314 miles $55,994
Hyundai IONIQ 5 77 Limited 282 miles $66,074
Audi e-tron GT quattro 305 miles $116,250

Discounts of up to 25% in the last 2 months reflect the poor market here since the new National government started putting the boot into EVs as promised. Good news for anyone wanting to buy an EV in New Zealand right now - take advantage of stupid public sentiment! The GWM Ora is a bargain. I don't know much about the KGM Torres EVX, but it looks like a bargain too. Unfortunately all the half-price Nissan Leafs have now gone.
I can't get myself to buy a Tesla. But when I read the following I found it tempting.
model-y-wa-rebate.jpg


But that jpg subtracts the Washington State sales tax instead of adding it. So the price would actually be $28,667 not $23,550 if you qualify for both rebates in full. But an EV makes a lot of sense because I could do probably 70 to 80% of my driving with zero fuel costs. I have surplus electricity 6 months of the year. And am tempted to add 10KW of more solar.
 
Marmite is a sort of meat extract that people, legendarily, either love or hate.

My base model MG4 cost £26,950 new in April 2023. You can get them cheaper now. No way could I possibly have afforded a Model Y.
Sounds kind of like SPAM. I hope it's a good car. When I owned an MG it was manufactured in the UK and obviously with a gas engine.
 
BYD 'WERE' in the US (mostly concentrating on their heavy vehicles ie buses/trucks at the time), but the US is extremely EV unfriendly (despite claims to the contrary) and doubly so for Chinese companies, so when BYD started expanding outside of China, they simply ignored the US market altogether for their cars... understandably so..

(the 100th BYD EV semi sold in the US... back in 2020)
1735267242324.png

Even under Biden, there was a strong anti-Chinese sentiment and trade policies, and under trump previously (and undoubtedly will again) the anti Chinese rhetoric (and tactics) were extreme, turned up to 11...

And so BYD at the time said they had little to no interest in what to them was a relatively small market, that would cause them no end of grief with protectionist policies and the like (and that was under Biden!!!)

So you are unlikely to see BYD, MG or any other Chinese EV brand in the US in the next decade or two lol, so you guys will be stuck with the overpriced US made Teslas...

Funnily enough- BYD supply the battery packs for the Model 3's made in Europe and China- so even if you are buying a 'Tesla'- its being powered by BYD lol

BYD has been building BEV cars since 2009 with the release of the E6 and trucks and buses since 2012 and produce more than Tesla sells worldwide, so they aren't exactly a small or 'new' company, despite their lack of recognition in the west, and their annual battery production is higher in GWH a year produced than Teslas as well :-O

E6
1735268293049.png

Having eaten both Vegemite and Marmite, Vegemite is definitely the better of the two...
If you have never tried it, a Vegemite and cheese toastie is 'drools'
1735268587678.png
Yum....
 
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