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Cont: Electric Vehicles II

I will be doing my first trip long enough to need to use a public charger on Friday (380ish miles; my car has an advertised range of 358 miles but my wheelchair adds to the weight, plus it will be mostly motorway and cold weather). Looking at the route on google maps, there are lots of options.

Right now it feels like a bit scary - mostly if the chargers will be properly accessible for me and if not, whether I can get help from other people. I think once I've done this for the first time, it will feel less intimidating.

Next year I'm hoping to go the south of France in the car on holiday, so I'll need a lot of public chargers! France seems reasonably well served for charging options and - as Rolfe says - chargers are being added all the time.
 
I have owned an EV since September, this one: BYD Dolphin Premium


BYD-Dolphin-other-one.jpg

It's a smaller car than I had previously (Mazda CX-5). So it has some limitations, particularly like not fitting as much lumber and building materials in it as I sometimes need. But the size is good because it actually fits in my old garage! There I can power it up by simply plugging an adapter into a standard 240V 10A wall socket. It might take many hours to fully charge that way (about 1.5 kW/h), but overnight it gets more than I use it for during most days. And the cost is minimal - about $24.00 to charge fully. In future, we will have a solar battery installed for charging the car. So the cost of "fuel" will be zero (or more accurately, the amortised cost of the solar system). Compared to the Mazda, at over $100 per tankful of diesel to go about 700 kms, that is a big change.

The Dolphin Premium model has a nominal full-charge range of 480kms (300 miles), but EV's are slightly different to ICE vehicles. The power used is far more closely tied to the power needed to get somewhere, not so much the range. There is regenerative braking power too, which helps maintain power levels leading to extended range. I live up the mountain range outside Sydney. If I drive down the mountain to Sydney, I can easily have as much battery power in the car when I get there as when I started! But going back up the mountain, the power required goes up. So, on average, the power consumption matches level driving that distance. I need to be aware that my range gauge on the dash is power level, not distance.

Just confirmed also that I can use the older Type 2 Tesla public chargers, which can do about 6.5-8 kW/h (would take about 8 hours to charge the Dolphin). Plenty of places have these chargers available for free now, as the newer expensive superchargers become available. So we can go shopping some distance away for a few hours, leave the car on a free charger, and get more than enough power to drive home later. Some of our bigger malls are also installing solar batteries for EV charging.
 
LiteBright said:
So I'm apparently going to get an electric vehicle as my next company supplied car! I am beyond excited for it.

I work for a division of a fortune 200 company that employs over 100,000 people worldwide. Back in April, they tweeted out a message saying "Happy Earth Day everyone!" which to me at least, seemed a little tone deaf. Their corporate accountability group is always soliciting for ideas so I wrote them a little note. I said that although the message was nice, it was not really in keeping with the purpose of earth day. Like Memorial Day, earth day is not meant to be a celebration. Rather, its a reminder of the damage we are doing to our home and the need to do better. And along those lines, it would be nice to see our company making more of an effort to combat climate change and to publicize those efforts. I never heard back.

Then 2 weeks ago my Trump-loving manager called me up and asked me if I had written something to our parent company about climate change. I thought I was about to get disciplined or even let go but instead he said they wanted me to be a tester for a roll out of electric vehicles across their fleet.
He hates the concept of EVs for no apparent reasonso I think he thought this would be some sort of punishment for me but to his surprise I said "ABSOLUTELY!"

So I will be receiving an EV sometime early next year. The company will pay to have a level 2 charger installed at my home and also pay for electricity the car uses for charging. I have no idea of the make or model yet but I did insist that it not be a Tesla. Nothing political but the nearest Tesla service centre is a 45 minute drive from me so it could be a major hassle to get service. In return I will be reporting monthly on my experience and the suitability of an EV for my job. Our parent company has over 15000 company vehicles in its fleet so my feedback could have a major impact. I personally drive about 45,000km per year for work and its not uncommon for me to have to go upwards of 300km in a day visiting clients. The overall impact could be huge!

Then this week the lobbying began. My boss let it slip (likely intentionally) that the company is investigating EVs and that I would be testing the concept and reporting on it. In the few days since, I have been deluged with phone calls and emails from colleagues all over the continent, all basically saying the same thing... "I DON'T WANT AN EV! YOU HAVE TO GET US OUT OF THIS MESS!! Tell them there's no way this will work" Its been a bit of a nightmare but I am hoping the furor dies down in the coming weeks.

In the meantime, I'm pretty proud that my little note and my coming testing could play an outsize role in the fight against climate change. I plan to be rigidly objective and fair in my reporting.
Click to expand...
For the life of me don't understand what difference it should make to anyone what type of fuel propels their vehicle. Only the convenience, the cost and how the vehicle runs makes a difference to me.

I mean seriously, why should a consumer feel the only way to power a car is by exploding gas or diesel fuel? Do they own stock in Exxon or British Petroleum? I can appreciate not being interested in driving or owning one in the 1990s when EVs were grossly underpowered. When they were basically glorified golf carts. But that was a long time ago. Today, the fastest cars with the quickest acceleration are EVs. I also understand that range might be a major concern for individuals that do a lot of long distance driving. But even that concern isn't what it use to be.

I look forward to a post about your experiences driving an EV.
 
For potential EV owners in Australia, range is the biggest fear. We have long distances, usually.

Hybrids of various models and configurations are becoming very common here. They turn a small ICE car into a longer range vehicle using less fuel, and also run on electrons around the shopping mall parking. Generally, they don't need external charging. They range from big ICE with electric assist to small ICE as a charging plant for electric driving.
 
Norman Alexander said:
For potential EV owners in Australia, range is the biggest fear. We have long distances, usually.

Hybrids of various models and configurations are becoming very common here. They turn a small ICE car into a longer range vehicle using less fuel, and also run on electrons around the shopping mall parking. Generally, they don't need external charging. They range from big ICE with electric assist to small ICE as a charging plant for electric driving.
Click to expand...
It's surprising that where I live (rural Qld) in a tiny town of only 1500 people, we already have FIVE EV's- and not one of them has any 'range anxiety' at all- they all can do 350km per charge at least (the local delivery van is a BYD T3), and even in our tiny little town, there's already a EV public charger, its an hours drive to the next 'big town' (or indeed anything at all except bush /farms) and there you have FOUR different public fast chargers available!!! but all charge 'at home' instead...

I suspect that range anxiety is solely felt only by 'non EV owners' in regards to the majority of actual EV owners...

I got to drive one of the locals Atto3's, met him at the supermarket and asked if I could get a look at it in person, as i was interested in buying one... asked what they were like to drive, and he asked me if I wanted to take it for a drive with him...
I was all in for it, expecting a 'quick spin around the block'- he asked me if I had a couple of hours to spare, as he wanted to go to our 'local Bunnings' (a quick 100km plus trip each way!!!) as he needed some screws and a couple of hinges for a door...

So my first 'quick spin around the block' was me driving a 200km plus round trip to pick up literally less than $10 of stuff from Bunnings...

How many ICE owners would even consider doing that (with our fuel at over $2/L and my Hilux using 10L/100km???)

First driving impressions...

VERY quiet (tiny amount of wind noise in the 110kmh areas- the A/C fan was louder than the wind noise lol), VERY zippy (yes the BYD was considerably slower than a Tesla- but still, equal to the old XR6 Turbo Falcon!!!, not exactly a slug lol) had ample overtaking acceleration when I overtook a double roadtrain (in fact considerably better than either my Hilux or even the Corolla has!!!)

:jaw-dropp


His is recharged solely from solar at his house (offgrid, 10kw of panels which can do a full 'empty to full' recharge in a single day, just- my 18kw array should have no issues lol) and even after doing a round trip, it could have easily done it again and STILL had a 'bit left in the tank' (4 hours of driving!!!) and even then, a less than 1/2hr on the fast charger would see it back at 80%/350km full again!!! (the Atto has a 400km plus range) or a full 'day' (8hr) on the home charger instead...

Even in the worst overcast weather, my array could still manage a full charge (just) but leave little for the house left over- in practice I only need to get enough in it to get 10km to the public charger in town...

It certainly feels very nice to drive, stable, and not at all 'heavy' (in fact equal to the Corolla in 'being nimble/zippy', and FAR better than the old (non turbo) Hilux lol) and as its actually cheaper to buy than a new Hilux, yeah, hands down which one would be my first choice lol

1734925161813.png
That's from my town to the nearest Bunnings lol
 
Range is still an occasional concern here, although as a multi-car family I don't think it would be an issue for both cars. I just today finished a trip of well over 500 miles in a day (530 plus side trips for meals, etc.)*, which obviously would have been difficult in an EV, especially with a lot of it in the dark, and very very cold. But that's rare. I'm still seriously considering making whatever I replace my current local-only Hyundai with an EV. The main obstacle there is my antiquated electric service at home. Slow charging only.
 
LOL- I'm completely offgrid (solar only) and I'm still looking at one, the guy that owns the one I took to Bunnings for a test drive, he's the same (10kw of solar, offgrid)- slow charging is fine for 99% of home charging...

In fact its actually better for the battery pack than fast charging (so they will last longer...)

Even the Atto (420km range per charge)- leave home with 100% charge, drive for 4 hours, stop with 20% left in the battery, in under 1/2 hour, its back up to 80% charge (375km)- drive for another 3 1/2 hours, stop for another under 1/2 hour and get another 375km of range... rinse and repeat...

Hardly an arduous trip lol...

(dunno about you, but after 4 hours in the car, by the time I been to the loo, grabbed a drink and a sanga or whatever and had a snack and a walk around, the car is basically up to that 80% charge again...)

You don't WANT to charge to 100% each time- because that last 20% takes as long again as the first 60%!!! (that applies to all batteries, regardless of chemistry) so it really isn't worth waiting for it- the 80% will get you almost as far for far less time charging...
 
Me, I hardly ever make a drive of more than about 100k at a time, mostly around the city. Sometimes I go for long drives. I have an internal garage with a power supply, and rooftop solar. I'm basically the perfect customer for an EV.
 
arthwollipot said:
Me, I hardly ever make a drive of more than about 100k at a time, mostly around the city. Sometimes I go for long drives. I have an internal garage with a power supply, and rooftop solar. I'm basically the perfect customer for an EV.
Click to expand...
You could go almost a full working week between charges with that profile lol...
:eye-poppi

The fact that a tiny (very) rural town in Qld already has FIVE EV's (with only 1500 people in the whole town!!!) and the next nearest town is literally an hours drive away, shows that 'range' is far less of an issue than many make it out to be...
(It's that small, we have our 'main street' is literally a single block long of shops!!!)

1734930122376.png

Sure there are always some 'edge' cases that an EV would be definitely out, but for 99% of the population, they could be used even in their existing state of development...
 
Dabop said:
You could go almost a full working week between charges with that profile lol...
:eye-poppi

The fact that a tiny (very) rural town in Qld already has FIVE EV's (with only 1500 people in the whole town!!!) and the next nearest town is literally an hours drive away, shows that 'range' is far less of an issue than many make it out to be...
(It's that small, we have our 'main street' is literally a single block long of shops!!!)

View attachment 58214

Sure there are always some 'edge' cases that an EV would be definitely out, but for 99% of the population, they could be used even in their existing state of development...
Click to expand...
The insane anti-climate change, coal power politics and the EV is snapped up in the heart of conservative country Australia.
 
One major driving factor for the switch to EV is the operating cost, i.e. fuel. As I said above, my CX-5 cost over $100 to brim the tank, and it got me 700 kms. That's good going for a diesel, and what we needed for long interstate trips. But the EV costs me roughly $20 per 400 kms. Simple maths says for $100, I go 2000 kms in the EV, nearly three times further. But if I use no-cost solar power to charge it (and I can score the freebie type 2 Tesla chargers off-site ;) ), I can drive it pretty much all the time for zero dollars.

This is what the oil companies fear. They are losing more and more income. I have been to our local servo a number of times in the last four months, but that was only to buy milk for the house, and also the occasional lunchtime sanga and choccy milk.
 
My Skoda Octavia does about 900k county driving on a tank. The trip computer thinks I'm going to get 1,000k.

It's a lot more slippery and lighter than my wife's Karoq. She doesn't get much more than 750 on the same engine.
 
I'm a moderator on the MG EV forum and we have a lot of members from Australia. They all seem very happy with their cars and vie with each other to describe the trips they've done. It's obvious the charging infrastructure is lagging behind that in Britain (which itself lags behind that in the continent), and they need to plan more, but it's getting there.

Given the amount of solar available in Australia it should be a no-brainer. Just make sure you choose the right car for your driving requirements both as regards range and charging speed and you'll be fine. Range anxiety is a scare dreamed up by Toyota so as to persuade people to go on buying combustion engine cars.

Which includes hybrids. The worst of both worlds. Seriously, don't.
 
I'm surprised that Australia's EV charging network is considered lagging- between my place and my sisters (a 3 hr drive, which the Atto3 LR I am looking at could do in a single charge with '1/4 of a tank left') I literally have to drive past over THIRTY chargers (including the one in my town of only 1500!!!) and thats including over an hours drive of nothing but bush (national park) and farmland...
You can drive right across Australia in any EV on the market here (including across the Nullabor lol)
https://www.plugshare.com/
Not only long range EVs like the Tesla, but even Leafs have done the 'cross country' trip...
https://reneweconomy.com.au/driving-electric-vehicle-across-nullarbor-now-routine-58197/
 
Maybe I've got the wrong impression, or maybe the sparsely-served areas I've seen the Aussies talking about are unrepresentative.
 
Mrs Don is increasingly happy with her Fiat 500e. Due to cheap running costs it's now our primary vehicle unless we have to carry more than two people or anything bulky. Even if paying for fast charging out in the wild it's no more expensive than our efficient Skoda Octavia per mile and almost all of our charging is done at home.

Because we have solar panels about half of our EV electricity is free and the rest is at a cheap overnight rate.
 
I have an export tariff which means that it's more beneficial to me to export the solar generation during the day and only charge the car at the overnight cheap rate. But before the paperwork for that came through I was able to run the car (and the house of course) exclusively on solar and I was still exporting (for nothing) a lot that I couldn't use.

It was midsummer at the time, but it was also Scotland.
 
Rolfe said:
I have an export tariff which means that it's more beneficial to me to export the solar generation during the day and only charge the car at the overnight cheap rate. But before the paperwork for that came through I was able to run the car (and the house of course) exclusively on solar and I was still exporting (for nothing) a lot that I couldn't use.

It was midsummer at the time, but it was also Scotland.
Click to expand...
We've only got a 4kw array and about 20kwh is about the most we ever generate in a day so it's only at the height of summer that we're in that happy position - unless of course we have our inflatable hot tub running in which case we hardly ever cover our usage completely.

In the winter, we rarely get more than 5kwh and Don Towers uses about 6-10 kwh per day depending on how long the heating is on (the pump uses a surprising amount of power) and how, and how long we're cooking.
 
I have 18 panels and I think on a really good day at midsummer they might do 45 kwh. Right now I'm getting very little - the home battery often doesn't get back to 100% during the day even though it's full at 5.30 am. There have been several days with less than 500 watt-hours. The battery is 9.5 kwh though, and does me all day. I think I may use some peak-time mains electricity on Ne'erday but that's more because I'll exceed the battery's maximum discharged speed with all the cooking, than that I'd actually run out of battery. I think.
 
Dabop said:
Ironic that Qld just elected a Liberal government, whose Energy minister is very antirenewables...
:mad:
Click to expand...
It's kind of a technology and science pick
Rolfe said:
Maybe I've got the wrong impression, or maybe the sparsely-served areas I've seen the Aussies talking about are unrepresentative.
Click to expand...
There's a lot of area. If the sign says 500k till the next petrol, believe it. People get petrol anxiety too.
 
Rolfe said:
Maybe I've got the wrong impression, or maybe the sparsely-served areas I've seen the Aussies talking about are unrepresentative.
Click to expand...
Oh sure there ARE areas that currently have few public chargers, but I am in a TINY country town (well about 10km out from it lol) and even we have a charge point here!!!
Have a look around at the 'EVshare' map, there's that many that they literally cover each others symbols up along the east coast (where most of the Australian population lives)
https://www.evchargingmap.com.au/ (click on the link and start zooming in- and more and more keep popping up lol)
eg
1734952520639.png
I can see my local charger in there lol, and look at the mileage scale bottom right...
1734952707876.png
This is my block of land... its literally in the middle of that last map...
1734952782039.png

EV- no wuckas LOL, I'm getting one, that will be the sixth in my town!!!
:jaw-dropp
 
Rolfe said:
I have 18 panels and I think on a really good day at midsummer they might do 45 kwh. Right now I'm getting very little - the home battery often doesn't get back to 100% during the day even though it's full at 5.30 am. There have been several days with less than 500 watt-hours. The battery is 9.5 kwh though, and does me all day. I think I may use some peak-time mains electricity on Ne'erday but that's more because I'll exceed the battery's maximum discharged speed with all the cooking, than that I'd actually run out of battery. I think.
Click to expand...
My offgrid system has (some) of my 18kw of panels (72x 250w ex gridtie panels) already up feeding a LYP (LiFeYPO4) 20kwh battery bank... (most of the panels are still sitting in the shed lol)
Even on my 'temporary' little 1.5kw array (6 panels- 3 facing north, 3 facing west) they are happy running the caravan...
1734953232977.png
The rest are sitting waiting to go on the roof of the house (once it has a roof to go on lol)
1734953205333.png
Feeds the 20kwh battery bank...
1734953295159.png

Totally offgrid (like the Atto3 owner I got to test drive in) except I got nearly double his 10kw array...
(picked upthe entire 18kw of panels for less than $2000 Au!!! secondhand from a gridtie installer...)

Took out $2k in cash, put $40 of diesel in the tilt-tray, and the rest went to him...
1734953582297.png
 
I'm currently sitting in a well organised queue at the northbound Tebay services. There are 12 charges and apparently I was 8th in the queue when I joined so hopefully not too long. The place is just mobbed, ICE cars parking on the grass, but they have an excellent queuing system and I'll be called when it's my turn. Ironically I saw from Google maps as I passed Penrith that the 50 kw chargers I was scrambling for this time last year were actually free, probably every EV driver on the M6 has made a beeline here. But this is actually a lot more civilised and it's no hardship to sit in the car with the heating on. I currently have 8% battery so plenty in hand to stay cosy.
 
Didn't the queues happen last Christmas too? I guess people have to move long distances at this time of year
 
Met a guy with a new MG EV , quite a nice looking car. He really liked it. But it looks like a BYD or similar, put two unbadged side by side, I couldn't say which is which.
Oddly he still thinks the brand or car have anything to do with the British MG brand of old.
 
Filippo Lippi said:
Didn't the queues happen last Christmas too? I guess people have to move long distances at this time of year
Click to expand...

These chargers weren't there last Christmas. I was scratching around Penrith for a 50 kw unit. Ironically I could have had one of these for the asking today, as everyone made a beeline for Tebay.

Tebay was the site of the infamous queueing Teslas incident at New Year two years ago. I suspect they're trying to avoid a repeat performance.
 
8enotto said:
Met a guy with a new MG EV , quite a nice looking car. He really liked it. But it looks like a BYD or similar, put two unbadged side by side, I couldn't say which is which.
Oddly he still thinks the brand or car have anything to do with the British MG brand of old.
Click to expand...

I knew perfectly well it was a Chinese car, that SAIC had bought the brand. The badge still did it for me! (That and the price.)
 
Rolfe said:
I knew perfectly well it was a Chinese car, that SAIC had bought the brand. The badge still did it for me! (That and the price.)
Click to expand...
Not saying anything is bad about the car itself, I have no data either way.
I liked how it looked too. It always catches me a bit when someone has no idea thier ítem has little to do with the legacy of the name on it.
My wife bought a Kodak TV. She didn't think it odd for a camera company. I did.
I use Chinese stuff daily but not a car, maybe one day?

BYD is supposedly building a factory in Mexico as I type this. Maybe soon we will have domestic/Chinese ev cars here.
 
8enotto said:
Not saying anything is bad about the car itself, I have no data either way.
I liked how it looked too. It always catches me a bit when someone has no idea thier ítem has little to do with the legacy of the name on it.
My wife bought a Kodak TV. She didn't think it odd for a camera company. I did.
I use Chinese stuff daily but not a car, maybe one day?

BYD is supposedly building a factory in Mexico as I type this. Maybe soon we will have domestic/Chinese ev cars here.
Click to expand...
I owned an MG in the early 80s. Sorry to say it was disappointing. I had a lot of mechanical problems. But it was fun to drive.
 
8enotto said:
Not saying anything is bad about the car itself, I have no data either way.
I liked how it looked too. It always catches me a bit when someone has no idea thier ítem has little to do with the legacy of the name on it.
My wife bought a Kodak TV. She didn't think it odd for a camera company. I did.
I use Chinese stuff daily but not a car, maybe one day?

BYD is supposedly building a factory in Mexico as I type this. Maybe soon we will have domestic/Chinese ev cars here.
Click to expand...
The MG has quite a good rep here in Australia (although BYD is outselling them by a huge margin- hell they are outselling Teslas even lol) the only reason they weren't on my list was atm, they have no tow package, and as I rent out trailers, thats a 'no-deal' for me, the ones I am looking at must have a legal tow package available (the Atto can tow up to 1200kg on a braked trailer here, which means it can handle any of my trailers if I need to pick up/drop off one lol)

Funnily enough, the Teslas have taken a huge hit since Musk outed himself lol- who'd a thunk that being a far right trumper would have consequences when the majority of your buyers detest him??? (plus Teslas don't exactly have the best reputation for damage repair etc, here it can take months if not a year or more to get parts to fix one if it get crash damaged!!!) where one of the Attos here hit a roo, it was fixed within two weeks (quicker than a mates Hilux lol)

The Chinese actually build quite good kit- sure, there's cheap crap, but but cheap, get cheap- buy the better quality stuff (which they make a LOT of) and its as good as anything made anywhere else...
 
acbytesla said:
Mine was a 1978 MGB. A two seater convertible. One hell of a lot of fun. I have some great memories of that car. I don't think MGs havet been sold in the US (at least in any numbers) since the early 1980s. Hard to get parts. And they were overpriced if you could get them.
Click to expand...
 
I believe the MG4 is only rated to tow 500 kg, so that's probably not going to be enough for some people.
 
Rolfe said:
I'm currently sitting in a well organised queue at the northbound Tebay services. There are 12 charges and apparently I was 8th in the queue when I joined so hopefully not too long. The place is just mobbed, ICE cars parking on the grass, but they have an excellent queuing system and I'll be called when it's my turn. Ironically I saw from Google maps as I passed Penrith that the 50 kw chargers I was scrambling for this time last year were actually free, probably every EV driver on the M6 has made a beeline here. But this is actually a lot more civilised and it's no hardship to sit in the car with the heating on. I currently have 8% battery so plenty in hand to stay cosy.
Click to expand...

I actually spoke a bit too soon about this charging stop. I probably waited about 45 minutes, which was longer than I expected, then I was told that one of the chargers had just been repaired and carry on with that one. I got connected and the charge started no trouble, and went to the restaurant for coffee and a scone. I checked my app and the car didn't seem to be filling up as fast as I expected but I just went on eating. Then, when it was at 51%, I realised the charge had stopped. Leaving my jacket on the chair to guard my half-eaten scone, I ran back to the charger to try to get it going again, but it wouldn't accept my card. I was faffing around trying to pay online but that wasn't working either, when the charger suddenly posted an out of order sign.

One of the marshals immediately directed me to another charger - the queue seemed to have more or less caught up by then - and I again managed to connect and get the charge started immediately. Coincidentally, I was sharing the unit with an identical car (except, when I talked to the driver it turned out it was the longer range model that charges nearly twice as fast.)

20241223_154605.jpg

I went back to the restaurant to find that a waitress had moved my jacket for safe-keeping as I had been away for so long, but she promptly brought it back and gave me a free refill of fresh coffee. I realised the car was now charging at its usual speed, and it was at 80% before I knew it. 85% by the time I got back to the charger. Of course the other blue MG4 was long gone, he probably only needed 20 minutes tops for a full charge, on a normally-working machine.

So all in all my half-hour stop at Tebay turned into two hours, which I wasn't really expecting. I got to my destination at 6.15 in plenty of time for dinner though, so it wasn't really a problem. But, the best-laid plans and all that.
 
I do use battery garden tools. Depending on the job run times and charge times have become a real issue.

I understand the dilemma of battery management. Since those jobs I have more than doubled our stock of batteries to "fix" the problems.
It's not cheap in mid/low end yard tools, I can only imagine the numbers car owners face to get that range.
 
I travelled on the M6 Toll on Sunday and Monday. I usually stop at the toll road services as there is a "country walk" for the dog there - we also get a McDonalds each - our guilty pleasure. I turned off for the services and on both days there was a standstill queue on the slip road into it. On Monday at the roundabout there was a couple of employees and I asked them what was the matter - they said the whole place was log jammed as people tried to use the electric car charging points, been like it for almost a week. I went around the roundabout and straight back onto the motorway both days. The dog was most upset. Plan your M6 excursions carefully. Had to look the name up - it's called Norton Canes.
 
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