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Cont: Electric universe theories here (2)

I did the calculations on this forum a few years ago. Yeah, it was about 20 orders of magnitude too small.

Large magnetic fields aren't simply not observed, they are observed to not exist. A subtle but important distinction, though it will probably be lost on Sol88.

And a sufficiently large charge on the sun to do what EU folks need wouldn't simply mess with the solar wind. That's really under-selling it. A sufficiently large charge to do what they need would make the surface of the sun explode at relativistic speeds. I ran the numbers on that too.

I'd be interested in seeing them have a valid alternative explanation for anything. Anything at all. But they don't.
 
Well there is your problem.
What, that I can do math?

Yeah, that's not a problem. That's how you do science. I know that's a foreign concept to you, but it's people who can do math that put a man on the moon and a computer in your pocket. The people who can't do math, including you and all the EUtards, haven't achieved anything in science.
 
Well there is your problem.
Not a problem, and is in keeping with an older calculation by Prof. Emory 'Ted' Bunn on a newsgroup some years previously in response to Lerner's nonsense.



And neither Lerner, nor anyone else, has shown any calculations that contradict Bunn's claim of; "In short, the idea that electromagnetic forces are responsible for the dynamics of stars in galaxies is not just a little bit implausible; it's ruled out by many, many orders of magnitude."
 
Sol88 thinks that if EU magic is up against mathematics, then magic always wins.
I saw a post some years ago from Tim Thompson, either here or on Cosmoquest, where he said that Thornhill had claimed that if his mythology-based beliefs contradicted physics, then it is the physics that must be wrong!
 
I saw a post some years ago from Tim Thompson, either here or on Cosmoquest, where he said that Thornhill had claimed that if his mythology-based beliefs contradicted physics, then it is the physics that must be wrong!
Exactly! Sol88 is simply following the doctrine.

Strangely, it doesn’t really matter for them that they can’t even calculate an orbit with their “theory”.
 
Not a problem, and is in keeping with an older calculation by Prof. Emory 'Ted' Bunn on a newsgroup some years previously in response to Lerner's nonsense.



And neither Lerner, nor anyone else, has shown any calculations that contradict Bunn's claim of; "In short, the idea that electromagnetic forces are responsible for the dynamics of stars in galaxies is not just a little bit implausible; it's ruled out by many, many orders of magnitude."
Ted makes two calculations here. First, he calculates the force a galactic magnetic field gradient applies to the magnetic dipole moment of the sun. Second, he calculates the force of an electric field on a charged sun.

There's actually a third source of force to calculate, which is the Lorenz force of a charged sun moving through the galactic magnetic field. Ted neglected to calculate this force, but that's OK, I did the calculations, and the results are still the same. Much, much too small to make any difference.
 
Hint....

Theoretical astrophysicist proposes solution to enigma of Crab Nebula's 'zebra' pattern


Using data from the Crab Pulsar, Medvedev established a method using wave optics to gauge the density of the pulsar's plasma—the "gas" of charged particles (electrons and positrons)—using a fringe pattern found in the electromagnetic pulses.

further

It takes very special conditions to create the bizarre stellar spectacle known as R Aquarii


The hydrogen accumulates on the white dwarf until the star can't take it anymore. Then the hydrogen explodes in nuclear fusion on the surface of the small, dense star.

The nova explosion ejects the material into space in gaseous filaments. But the region around white dwarfs is dominated by the star's powerful magnetic fields, which can be millions of times stronger than Earth's. The force of the nuclear explosion and the magnetic fields twist the gaseous hydrogen filaments into trails and streamers, and eventually, they loop back on themselves and form spiral patterns.


We can only see this nebula of gaseous filaments because the radiation from both stars strips electrons from the hydrogen, turning it into ionized gas. The ionized hydrogen glows brightly and creates a beautiful natural display.

PLASMA not GAS...


See...The rotation curve of a disc galaxy (also called a velocity curve) is a plot of the orbital speeds of visible stars or gas in that galaxy versus their radial distance from that galaxy's centre.

Fixed!
 

Simulations reveal black holes inherit magnetic fields from parent stars

For such a spectacular event to occur, a black hole needs to carry a powerful magnetic field. Where this magnetism comes from, however, has been a long-standing mystery.

Long standing? Why?

Implications across the cosmos​


"This study changes the way we think about what types of systems can support jet formation because if we know that accretion disks imply magnetism, then in theory, all you need is an early disk formation to power jets," he says. "I think it would be interesting for us to rethink all of the connections between populations of stars and jet formation now that we know this."

Magnetisim only?

Where is the ELECTRO?

Oh, look the ELECTROMAGNETIC force is dominate.

"And so, the idea is that maybe an accretion disk can save the magnetic field of the neutron star. This way, a black hole will form with the same magnetic field lines that threaded the neutron star."

How did the neutron star (yeah right) get it's magnetic field from?
 

Egg-shaped galaxies may be aligned to the black holes at their hearts, astronomers find

Under the right circumstances, dust and gas falling into these galactic cores can form a disk of hot material around the black hole. This "accretion disk" in turn generates a super-heated jet of charged particles that are ejected from the black hole at mind-boggling velocities, close to the speed of light.

GAS?

Connection to the host galaxy


What about the host galaxies? A galaxy is a three-dimensional object, formed of hundreds of billions of stars

It is surprising that such a relatively small object can affect, or be affected by, the environment on such large scales. We might expect to see a correlation between the jet and the local environment, but not with the whole galaxy.

PLASMA!
 
Hint....

Theoretical astrophysicist proposes solution to enigma of Crab Nebula's 'zebra' pattern




further

It takes very special conditions to create the bizarre stellar spectacle known as R Aquarii






PLASMA not GAS...


See...The rotation curve of a disc galaxy (also called a velocity curve) is a plot of the orbital speeds of visible stars or gas in that galaxy versus their radial distance from that galaxy's centre.

Fixed!
Well, real scientists also have heard about plasma. Who’d have thought?

Can you explain how that solves the rotation curves of galaxies without dark matter? It will be interesting to hear, particularly because your mathless fantasy is not able to calculate rotation curves of anything.
 
Well, real scientists also have heard about plasma. Who’d have thought?

Can you explain how that solves the rotation curves of galaxies without dark matter? It will be interesting to hear, particularly because your mathless fantasy is not able to calculate rotation curves of anything.

How are you getting the EM force to act on GAS?

The rotation curve of a disc galaxy (also called a velocity curve) is a plot of the orbital speeds of visible stars or gas in that galaxy versus their radial distance from that galaxy's centre.

I'll wait?

but you can always just add more mass...
 
The rotational/orbital speeds of galaxies/stars do not follow the rules found in other orbital systems such as stars/planets and planets/moons that have most of their mass at the centre.
 
So how strong are they?

You don't know, do you?
Very strong, just look at their effects! Jet's for one.

Why use gravity to accelerate particles (PLASMA) away from the center of mass?

"This study changes the way we think about what types of systems can support jet formation because if we know that accretion disks imply magnetism, then in theory, all you need is an early disk formation to power jets,"

Magnetism by the mainstream is implied...

In the ELECTRIC UNIVERSE... this is not the case. The Universe is in the PLASMA state. Not sure why you mainstream mob are trying to reionise ionised matter?

Seems daft ;)
 
Very strong, just look at their effects! Jet's for one.
You said electric fields, not magnetic fields. The jets aren't driven by electric fields. Even an idiot should know why plasmas don't permit large electric fields to persist.
 
You said electric fields, not magnetic fields. The jets aren't driven by electric fields. Even an idiot should know why plasmas don't permit large electric fields to persist.


Are you saying ELECTRIC FIELDS are not involved in particle acceleration, wrt astrophysical "jets"?

:confused:
 
Are you saying ELECTRIC FIELDS are not involved in particle acceleration, wrt astrophysical "jets"?

:confused:
Not in the way you think they are.

Again, do you have any idea why it’s hard to get large electric fields in a plasma?
 
Not in the way you think they are.

Again, do you have any idea why it’s hard to get large electric fields in a plasma?

I think they are??

:dl:


Relativistic jets are beams of ionised matter accelerated close to the speed of light.

Why would it NOT be electric fields in PLASMA doing the accelerating of PLASMA?
 
Are you still thinking super conducting, frozen in magnetic field and the electrons as a neutralising fluid type plasma, is preventing the formation of ELECTRIC FIELDS?
 
Are you still thinking super conducting, frozen in magnetic field and the electrons as a neutralising fluid type plasma, is preventing the formation of ELECTRIC FIELDS?
Who said anything about superconductors? Not me. But do you even know what conduction means? Do you even know how electrons respond to electric fields? Do you know how that response changes the field?
 
Who said anything about superconductors? Not me. But do you even know what conduction means? Do you even know how electrons respond to electric fields? Do you know how that response changes the field?
We can test this in a lab on Earth...oh wait... :unsure:
 
We can test this in a lab on Earth...oh wait... :unsure:
Yes. Yes we can. And we have. That's why we know a lot about electromagnetism.

But you know what that knowledge involves? Do you know how we can turn those tests into models that can make quantifiable predictions?

Math.
 
Yes. Yes we can. And we have. That's why we know a lot about electromagnetism.

But you know what that knowledge involves? Do you know how we can turn those tests into models that can make quantifiable predictions?

Math.

Aaaaaannd?

How does YOUR math prove that LARGE ELECTRIC FIELDS are "hard to get" in space plasma? as per your "Again, do you have any idea why it’s hard to get large electric fields in a plasma?"

 
Aaaaaannd?

How does YOUR math prove that LARGE ELECTRIC FIELDS are "hard to get" in space plasma? as per your "Again, do you have any idea why it’s hard to get large electric fields in a plasma?"
I don't think you even know what an electric field is. Or why it would arise. Or the strengths required to maintain quasi-neutrality. I think you are just making ◊◊◊◊ up. As usual. Because you cannot deal with science, and you cannot deal with maths. And plasma physics is possibly (check with Tusesnfem) the most mathematically intense science out there. See some of Alfven's early papers. All those Greek letters? Way beyond you!
 
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I don't think you even know what an electric field is. Or why it would arise. Or the strengths required to maintain quasi-neutrality. I think you are just making ◊◊◊◊ up. As usual. Because you cannot deal with science, and you cannot deal with maths. And plasma physics is possibly (check with Tusesnfem) the most mathematically intense science out there. See some of Alfven's early papers. All those Greek letters? Way beyond you!

Indeed, the maths is too hard to compute!

Similarly, electric fields are observed in some stellar astrophysical phenomena, but they are inconsequential in very low-density gaseous media.
WIKI

The ELECTRIC UNIVERSE says the electric fields are not inconsequential.

An astrophysical jet is an astronomical phenomenon where outflows of ionised matter are emitted as extended beams along the axis of rotation

Quite powerful ELECTRIC FIELDS accelerating matter in the PLASMA state. Still, I like your explanation for accelerating GAS to relativistic velocities...using gravity and then invoking magnetism!

One explanation is that tangled magnetic fields are organised to aim two diametrically opposing beams away from the central source by angles only several degrees wide (c. > 1%).
 
Aaaaaannd?

How does YOUR math prove that LARGE ELECTRIC FIELDS are "hard to get" in space plasma? as per your "Again, do you have any idea why it’s hard to get large electric fields in a plasma?"
Because plasma is a conductor, that's why. It's hard to get large fields in a conductor because those fields induce currents which move charges to cancel those fields.

This is really basic electromagnetism, and you don't have the slightest clue how any of it works. That's just sad, to belong to a cult and not even understand your own god.
 
Because plasma is a conductor,

How good a conductor? Close enough to perfect almost like a superconductor in your math?

Can you see YOUR problem yet? I can help you keep digging.

How's your magnetic fields in this conductive plasma... :dl:
 
What if just by absolute coincidence there are indeed large and powerful electric fields in space plasmas?

Hardcastle said. "The other is that, since these sources can reach these large sizes, they pollute the void between the galaxies with magnetic fields and energetic particles — that could have important implications for the study of the history of magnetic fields in the universe."

The team's next steps will be to investigate how these gigantic black hole jets influence their surrounding galaxies. Oei is particularly interested in the magnetic influence of these jets.

"The magnetism on our planet allows life to thrive, so we want to understand how it came to be," he said. "We know magnetism pervades the cosmic web, then makes its way into galaxies and stars, and eventually to planets, but the question is: Where does it start? Have these giant jets spread magnetism through the cosmos?"

Electric currents spreading magnetism!
 
Because plasma is a conductor, that's why. It's hard to get large fields in a conductor because those fields induce currents which move charges to cancel those fields.

This is really basic electromagnetism, and you don't have the slightest clue how any of it works. That's just sad, to belong to a cult and not even understand your own god.

Sounds like this plasma stuff has the experts stumped...

The simulations show that the energy flowing out of the hole is higher than the energy contained in the matter that falls in. This is possible if the hole's rotational energy is being extracted in the process due to enormous magnetic forces that are optimized by the Blandford-Znajek mechanism. Additional effects seen in the modeling are helping to resolve some of the other outstanding issues related to the shape and intensities of the magnetic fields and energy jets.


GRMHD simulations are yet another example of the profound interdependence between astrophysics and high energy physics, as the simulations combine the study of relativistic plasmas, cutting-edge computing, gravity at extreme energies, nature's largest particle accelerators, and some of the most spectacular and enigmatic phenomena pervading the Universe.

Computational Astrophysics


Looks like you are going to need a bigger computer!
 
How good a conductor? Close enough to perfect almost like a superconductor in your math?

For your information, in Appendix A of this paper you can find out how to calculate the resistivity of a magnetized plasma (in the actual calculated situation, that of an accretion disk) in s/cm.
 
Sounds like this plasma stuff has the experts stumped...
You're bad at reading comprehension. What part of "This is possible if the hole's rotational energy is being extracted in the process" did you not understand? They aren't stumped, they already have the answer.

Black holes have a lot of angular momentum. That angular momentum produces something called frame dragging, a general relativistic effect that we have measured experimentally. And frame dragging can transfer angular momentum (and thus energy) from the black hole to material in the accretion disk. This hasn't stumped anyone but you. Because it involves math, and you're allergic.
 
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