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Cont: Electric universe theories here (2)

Also jd116….

Field aligned force free electron currents better for you then?

Birkeland Currents: A Force-Free Field-Aligned Model
Donald E. Scott

Nope, the paper is gibberish. That is why it only exists in a non-peer-reviewed, predatory, pseudoscience rag.
The clown even claims that the M2-9 planetary nebula is a z-pinch! Proving that he doesn't even know what a z-pinch is!

Here is a little help for the hard of thinking;

Z-pinch:

>>>>>>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>>>>>

Where > is the current and its direction of travel, and * is the pinch.

M2-9 nebula in Doppler;

<<<<<<<<<<<<< * >>>>>>>>>>>>

Where < & > are the gas and its direction of travel, and * is the central star.

You are going to need someone with a clue about plasma physics. Scott is not that person.
 
At half rat power? Or what?

:rolleyes:

It isn't drifting back to the Sun! It is drifting in that direction in the frame of reference of the protons! In the frame of reference of the Sun, it is heading outwards. As it must.
 
Imagine if that sunward drift of electrons to maintain quasi neutrality, included “borrowing” some electrons from the interstellar plasma.

Interstellar plasma cannot enter the heliosphere. Magnetic field is going the wrong way, and then piling up at the heliopause! The only charged particles you are getting in from without the heliosphere are those with relativistic energies. Cosmic rays, that is. And we know the flux of them.
 
THORNHILL
Wallace William (Wal)

Wallace William (Wal) Thornhill
2 May 1942 – 7 February 2023

Passed away peacefully in Canberra,
surrounded by family.

Much loved and devoted husband of 57 years of Faye. Loving father of Nikki, Tanya and Bronwyn and their partners Gal and Brian. Proud Pop of Hannah, Laura, Joel, Joshua, Jordan, Ela, Zohar, Sean and Tara. Proud Grand Pop of Ainsley.

Physicist - Cosmologist
Natural Philosopher
Independent Thinker

Wal was a world leading theorist of
Electric Universe cosmology; the chief
science advisor to The Thunderbolts Project; a science consultant for the Safire Project.

A celebration of Wal's life will be held at The Chapel, Gold Creek on Friday
17th February at 2pm.

Gone too soon - in our hearts forever

so long and thank ya mother for the rabbits…
 
found that battery you've been looking for...

FluxRopes%28BatteryInSpace%29.jpg
WIKI
 
When did that happen? He must have written the obit himself! Lying 'til the end, eh!

Let's hope he ends up in his paradise of an Earth orbiting inside the atmosphere of a brown dwarf. Most people would call that 'Hell'!

https://www.holoscience.com/wp/wal-thornhill-jwst-l-type-brown-dwarf-stars-thunderbolts/

"Life may be possible inside the glow of a brown dwarf—far more likely than on a planet orbiting outside a star—since the radiant energy arriving on a planet orbiting inside a glowing sphere is evenly distributed over its entire surface."

This betrays a fundamental ignorance of thermodynamics. Life doesn't just need energy to exist. That doesn't suffice, not by a long shot. Life is an entropy-decreasing process, and so it needs to increase entropy in its environment. And the best way to do that is with energy gradients. It's basically the same reason that you need both a heat source and a cold sink to run a heat engine. Having a planet surrounded on all sides by heat is actually far worse for life than having light only illuminate part of the planet at once. The energy gradient between the influx of light from the sun (our heat source) and the darkness of night (our cold sink) is what allows life to flourish. Local entropy can decrease because we can still increase global entropy. You can't do that if you're surrounded on all sides by your heat source, with no cold sink available.

I used to teach a thermodynamics class, and one of my favorite test questions was whether or not a chicken egg with a growing chick inside absorbs heat or gives off heat. It's a great question because it doesn't require any calculations, it doesn't require any detailed knowledge of biology, but it does require understanding some fundamental concepts of thermodynamics. It's not a hard question, but it's easy to screw up if you don't think about it in terms of entropy. A lot of students answer that the egg absorbs heat, because they think of the chicken having to sit on the egg to keep it warm, and so conclude that the chicken is transferring heat to the egg.

But this is wrong. The egg gives off heat. When transforming from an egg to a chicken, the entropy is decreasing. You're going from an arrangement with lots of disorder (the yolk and the white are basically undifferentiated masses) to a very ordered arrangement. But in order for the egg to decrease its entropy, it must increase the entropy of its surroundings. And it can only do that by giving off heat. The chicken incubating the egg isn't necessary to provide heat, but merely to make sure that heat isn't lost too fast so that the chick gets too cold and dies. It's the same reason we wear jackets on a cold day.

My point here is that basic thermodynamic considerations are fundamental to life. It's pretty clear that Thornhill would have flunked my class, because he obviously doesn't understand thermodynamics or how it applies to life.
 
"Life may be possible inside the glow of a brown dwarf—far more likely than on a planet orbiting outside a star—since the radiant energy arriving on a planet orbiting inside a glowing sphere is evenly distributed over its entire surface."

This betrays a fundamental ignorance of thermodynamics.

Not to mention orbital mechanics! Artificial satellite orbits decay due to atmospheric drag, encountering atmospheric atoms even at the extremely low densities up there.
A planet within a brown dwarf atmosphere? How long before it spirals into the dwarf, even if it isn't fried beforehand? Not long, methinks.


ETA:

Even ignoring the above, what about the Roche limit around a brown dwarf for an Earth-sized planet? A lot further out than its atmosphere, would be my guess. I did a calculation years ago re Velikovsky's idiotic claims about Venus getting up close and personal with Earth and Mars. I'll have to dig into the formula again. I suspect it will end as badly for Thornhill as it did for V.

ETA Part deux:

OK, a very rough calculation using Roche limit = 2.4 R (rho M/rho m)^1/3;

where R = the radius of the primary (the BD) in kms, rho M is the density of the primary in g/cm^3, and rho m is the density of the satellite in g/cm^3;

Gives ~ 450 000 km assuming a Jupiter radius for the BD, and a density of 100g/cm^3. The latter can evidently vary quite a bit, from 10 - 1000 g/cm^3. Higher densities would make the problem worse for Thornhill. Using the lower value would still put it well outside the atmosphere. Case closed. This is what happens when one is scientifically illiterate, and allergic to maths.
 
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The Thread That Will Not Die!

Models which abandon the cosmological principle do exist and make predictions. They are simply less studied than standard cosmology. The European Space Agency's Euclid satellite will be launched this year. Will Euclid reveal that on average space is not Euclidean? If so, then a fundamental revolution in physics might be around the corner.
Cosmological models are built on a simple, century-old idea, but new observations demand a radical rethink

Ideas about matter have evolved, but not geometry

We now have amazingly detailed models of the physics of stars and galaxies embedded in the evolving universe. We can trace the astrophysics of "stuff" from tiny seed ripples in the primordial fireball all the way to complex structures today.

Our telescopes are wonderful time machines. They look back all the way to when the first atoms formed, and the universe first became transparent.

Beyond is the primordial plasma, opaque like the interior and surface of the sun. The light that left the universe's "surface of last scattering" was very hot back then, about 2,700℃.

Most probably, yes a fundamental revolution in physics might be around the corner. plasma physics again, whoda thunkit!

:thumbsup:
 
Well, a little bit…

Collaborative research detects nanojets with machine learning algorithms


What’s a jet, in the astrophysical sense?

Is a nano jet using the same mechanism as a kilo parsec jet?

Electric Universe say, YES.

MAINSTREAM, what’s a jet?
 
Simple central idea, over 100 yrs old.

How was their plasma physics back then?
 
Well, a little bit…

Collaborative research detects nanojets with machine learning algorithms


What’s a jet, in the astrophysical sense?

Is a nano jet using the same mechanism as a kilo parsec jet?

Electric Universe say, YES.

MAINSTREAM, what’s a jet?

Wow, nanojets are produced by nanaflares, very mainstream, which clearly knows what a jet is.
For those interested here is the link to ADS to the paper by Antolin et al. (2021)

So, very mainstream, no electric universe to be seen anywhere.
 
Wow, nanojets are produced by nanaflares, very mainstream, which clearly knows what a jet is.
For those interested here is the link to ADS to the paper by Antolin et al. (2021)

So, very mainstream, no electric universe to be seen anywhere.

Odd that Sol88 didn't mention magnetic reconnection, since that paper describes magnetic reconnection as the driving force for this proposed mechanism.

I kid, of course he didn't mention it, because the EU nut jobs have been denying the possibility of magnetic reconnection for decades.
 
Odd that Sol88 didn't mention magnetic reconnection, since that paper describes magnetic reconnection as the driving force for this proposed mechanism.

I kid, of course he didn't mention it, because the EU nut jobs have been denying the possibility of magnetic reconnection for decades.

We have never, as far as I know, said that at all! nice confabulation.

The fact that "magnetic reconection" is a PLASMA INSTABILITY in a current carrying plasma ( The very premise of the ELECTRIC UNIVERSE) is of no surprise to the crackpot loons of the ELECTRIC UNIVERSE.

But...
 
We have never, as far as I know, said that at all! nice confabulation.

Never listened to, or read, anything by the clown Don Scott, have you?

The fact that "magnetic reconection" is a PLASMA INSTABILITY in a current carrying plasma ( The very premise of the ELECTRIC UNIVERSE) is of no surprise to the crackpot loons of the ELECTRIC UNIVERSE.

Not as I understand it. Nothing to do with an 'instability'. In its simplest form it is just oppositely directed magnetic fields (which may or may not contain plasma) which come together, therefore creating a current sheet between them. As they must. See comet tails, the cross-tail current sheet in the magnetosphere, and the heliospheric current sheet, for example.

https://mrx.pppl.gov/Physics/physics.html
 
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Never listened to, or read, anything by the clown Don Scott, have you?



Not as I understand it. Nothing to do with an 'instability'. In its simplest form it is just oppositely directed magnetic fields (which may or may not contain plasma) which come together, therefore creating a current sheet between them. As they must. See comet tails, the cross-tail current sheet in the magnetosphere, and the heliospheric current sheet, for example.

https://mrx.pppl.gov/Physics/physics.html

Well, you don't understand it obviously.

Solving a Plasma Physics Mystery: Magnetic Reconnection

Like Sweet-Parker, the plasmoid instability model starts with a stretched-out, thin sheet of electrical current with an accompanying magnetic field. Like the two-fluid model, it assumes the electrons and ions that flow along the magnetic field lines break away at different times.

Basic stuff
 
Never listened to, or read, anything by the clown Don Scott, have you?



Not as I understand it. Nothing to do with an 'instability'. In its simplest form it is just oppositely directed magnetic fields (which may or may not contain plasma) which come together, therefore creating a current sheet between them. As they must. See comet tails, the cross-tail current sheet in the magnetosphere, and the heliospheric current sheet, for example.

https://mrx.pppl.gov/Physics/physics.html

Instability of current sheets and formation of plasmoid chains

So... :D
 
We have never, as far as I know, said that at all! nice confabulation.

Bwahahahahahaha!

The Myth of Magnetic Reconnection

They've been denying magnetic reconnection for decades. But we don't even need to go that far back, and we don't even need to talk about what other people have said. You yourself have been denying magnetic reconnection in a thread specifically dedicated to that topic this year. Have you already forgotten?

MHD is wrong.

Though they (mainstream) cling desperately to the notion of reconnecting field lines because MATH!

Ahh, DOUBLE LAYERS (an electric field).
 
Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. It's still magnetic reconnection. You still claimed that was wrong. We have the receipts.
 
Is is indeed NOT magnetic field lines reconnecting, they are just another plasma instability mainstream have finally accepted.

Ahhh, I guess that is why they say in the abstract:

Current sheets formed in magnetic reconnection events ....

but I am sure Sol will explain this paper to us uninitiated.
 
Bwahahahahahaha!

The Myth of Magnetic Reconnection

They've been denying magnetic reconnection for decades. But we don't even need to go that far back, and we don't even need to talk about what other people have said. You yourself have been denying magnetic reconnection in a thread specifically dedicated to that topic this year. Have you already forgotten?

It is quite amusing. but not at all surprising, to see the amount of disinformation in that Thunderdolts article;

Electrical engineers and plasma cosmologists..........

Who cares what engineers think? They mean the clueless oaf Don Scott. No other EE is saying anything about the subject, which they are not qualified to comment on in the first place.

If you ask a plasma cosmologist about these, he'll tell you that the astronomers don't know what they're talking about. They're looking at well-understood plasma phenomena, exploding double layers and electric discharge, not magnetic reconnection.

And which plasma cosmologists would they be? Peratt? Nope. Never denied MR. Fälthammar? Nope, he was a big fan of MR. Lerner? Wouldn't understand it anyway, and has never said anything about it, to my knowledge. So, what they are really saying is that unqualified EUists, who don't have the first clue about plasma physics, don't agree with it because.................... reasons. Even though it is detected and observed.

Which side will triumph?

There is only one side. And it has long since been decided that MR is real. The only people who disagree with it are the unqualified mythologists of EU. The battle, if such there was, was decided before their cult was even a thing.

Or will history remember that plasma researchers like Jacobson and Carlqvist were explaining solar flares as exploded double layers 50 years ago?

And observations almost 30 years ago were already showing Carlqvist to be likely wrong. More recent observations show that he was definitely wrong, and he went quiet on the subject a long time ago. Which is why nobody is following that model anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNsSQjSzLv0
 

Didn't read it, did you? Rhetorical;

Magnetic reconnection is a plasma phenomenon in which oppositely directed magnetic field lines are driven together, break, and rejoin in a topologically different configuration. It is an essential element in our understanding of the solar flares and the magnetotail, where it is directly observed, as well as of other astrophysical plasmas.

Strange! That sounds eerily similar to what I already said! Always best to read papers before linking them. Saves you ending up with a metaphorical bullet hole in your foot.
 
Well, you don't understand it obviously.

Solving a Plasma Physics Mystery: Magnetic Reconnection



Basic stuff

And what did they say in the article?

Magnetic fields are made up of field lines. Electrons and ions flow along these invisible lines. When two sets of lines that have magnetic fields pointing in opposite directions get too close, they collide. As the field lines cross and form an X, they break and then reconnect to the other set of lines coming from the opposite direction. Forming U-shapes that push away from each other, they rearrange the magnetic field. By heating up and accelerating the particles in the plasma, that rearrangement transforms magnetic energy into particle energy. This tumultuous process is magnetic reconnection.

Which, again, is basically what I said.

Later in the article, it says;

In 2007, Nuno Loureiro, then a postdoctoral researcher at PPPL and a participant of the DOE Center for Multiscale Plasma Dynamics at the University of Maryland, developed what might be the final piece of the map. It was a new theory that became known as the plasmoid instability.

Which links to the paper you have already linked to by Loureiro, et al. Which you didn't read.
 
Astronomers capture formation of a powerful cosmic jet

The jet travels at nearly the speed of light and shows complex, twisted patterns near its source. These patterns challenge the standard theory that has been used for 40 years to explain how these jets form and change over time.

About 10% of active galactic nuclei, classified as quasars, produce relativistic plasma jets.

The jets of plasma coming from blazars are not really straight and uniform. They show twists and turns that show how the plasma is affected by the forces around the black hole. The astronomers studying these twists in 3C 279, called helical filaments, found that they were caused by instabilities developing in the jet plasma.

In the process, they also realized that the old theory they had used to explain how the jets changed over time no longer worked.

Hence, new theoretical models are needed that can explain how such helical filaments form and evolve so close to the jet origin. This is a great challenge, but also a great opportunity to learn more about these amazing cosmic phenomena.

Never heard of Don Scott or Birkeland Currents?


Amazing cosmic phenomena, indeed!
 
Unscientific crackpot tries to take credit for work of actual scientists. And dog bites man. Same as it ever was.
 
Never heard of Don Scott or Birkeland Currents?

Birkeland currents are an induced phenomena that exist in planetary magnetospheres. I do not see the word 'Birkeland' mentioned in the preprint;

The filamentary internal structure of the 3C279 blazar jet
Fuentes, A. et al
https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-1449452/v1_covered.pdf?c=1648053798

Currents are mentioned, as in;

Current-driven kink or Kelvin-Helmholtz (KH) instabilities are the most plausible mechanisms capable of developing such helical structures.

And we know what is driving these jets- supermassive black holes. How is Scott forming Birkeland currents in the middle of nowhere? What is the mechanism?

And his Fig. 10 is a joke! He shows the M2-9 'Butterfly' nebula. And claims that its morphology is due to a pinch! I'm sure I've pointed this out before, but here is a simplified sketch of what happens in a z-pinch;

>>>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>>>

where > is the current and its direction of travel. * is the pinch.

And here is what we see when we look at M2-9 using Doppler;

<<<<<<<<<< * >>>>>>>>>>

where < & > are the gas and its direction of travel. * is the central object. A star!

'M2-9: A Planetary Nebula with an Eruptive Nucleus?'
Balick, B. (1989)
Astronomical Journal
https://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1989AJ.....97..476B

See Fig. 2.

There is no reason to take any notice of a retired EE when it comes to plasma physics, at which he is atrocious. He still thinks the solar wind is a current! Among other nonsense.
 
Birkeland currents are an induced phenomena that exist in planetary magnetospheres. I do not see the word 'Birkeland' mentioned in the preprint;

The filamentary internal structure of the 3C279 blazar jet
Fuentes, A. et al
https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-1449452/v1_covered.pdf?c=1648053798

Currents are mentioned, as in;



And we know what is driving these jets- supermassive black holes. How is Scott forming Birkeland currents in the middle of nowhere? What is the mechanism?

And his Fig. 10 is a joke! He shows the M2-9 'Butterfly' nebula. And claims that its morphology is due to a pinch! I'm sure I've pointed this out before, but here is a simplified sketch of what happens in a z-pinch;

>>>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>>>

where > is the current and its direction of travel. * is the pinch.

And here is what we see when we look at M2-9 using Doppler;

<<<<<<<<<< * >>>>>>>>>>

where < & > are the gas and its direction of travel. * is the central object. A star!

'M2-9: A Planetary Nebula with an Eruptive Nucleus?'
Balick, B. (1989)
Astronomical Journal
https://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1989AJ.....97..476B

See Fig. 2.

There is no reason to take any notice of a retired EE when it comes to plasma physics, at which he is atrocious. He still thinks the solar wind is a current! Among other nonsense.

What is the mechanism? you ask, well...standard mainstream plasma physics, of course! :rolleyes:

Now using your garden variety plasma physics, the 'ol Z-pinch is a prime candidate within Kelvin-Helmholtz (KH) diocotron instabilities and Kruskal–Shafranov (kink) instabilities.

So we agree on the behavoiur of a z pinch in the lab, tested, rinsed and repeated?

Common behavior

Pinches may become unstable.[22] They radiate energy across the whole electromagnetic spectrum including radio waves, microwaves, infrared, x-rays,[23] gamma rays,[24] synchrotron radiation,[25] and visible light. They also produce neutrons, as a product of fusion.[26]
wiki

Your (mainstream) problem is confabulating the KH instability for the Kruskal–Shafranov (kink) instability,
Current driven kink

or Kelvin-Helmholtz (KH) instabilities are the most plausible mechanisms capable of developing such helical structures25,26,27. Current-driven instabilities dominate in Poynting-flux regimes with strong helical magnetic fields, that is, in the jet’s acceleration and collimation region.
YOUR LIKED PAPER

So the the Kelvin-Helmholtz fluid dynamical shear instability is driven by the black holes gravity?? That's the best you can do?

:eek:

Meantime, over in the plasma physics world, no mystery. Just plasma doing plasma stuff!
 
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Just for a laugh

Astronomers observe supermassive black hole feeding and feedback on sub-parsec scales

No wonder you mob are confused!

The gas that gathers very close to supermassive black holes is accelerated at high speeds due to the gravity of the black hole. As a consequence of intense friction between gas particles, this gas heats up to temperatures reaching several million degrees and emits brilliant light. This phenomenon is known as an active galactic nucleus (AGN), and its brightness can at times surpass the combined light of all the stars in the galaxy. Interestingly, a portion of the gas that falls towards the black hole (accretion flow) is thought to be blown away by the immense energy of this active galactic nucleus, leading to outflows.

whoo boy friction!
 
Physicist explains X-rays that shouldn't exist in 'cold' plasma

"The ripples choke the jet's 100-kiloamp electric current, much like putting your thumb over a water hose restricts the flow and creates a pressure gradient that accelerates water," Bellan says. "Choking the jet current creates an electric field strong enough to accelerate electrons to high energy."

When Bellan tweaked his simulation, a few high-energy electrons capable of creating X-rays appeared. "The lucky few that never come close enough to an ion to excite it never lose energy," he adds. "These electrons are continuously accelerated in the electric field and ultimately attain sufficient energy to produce the X-rays."

Bellan says that if this behavior occurs in the plasma jet in his Caltech lab, it probably happens in solar flares and astrophysical situations as well. This may also explain why unexpectedly high-energy X-rays are sometimes seen during fusion-energy experiments.

This might be explaining what was going on. That's not what people want, but it is probably what happens.

Just say'n jd116!
 
What is the mechanism? you ask, well...standard mainstream plasma physics, of course! :rolleyes:

Now using your garden variety plasma physics, the 'ol Z-pinch is a prime candidate within Kelvin-Helmholtz (KH) diocotron instabilities and Kruskal–Shafranov (kink) instabilities.

So we agree on the behavoiur of a z pinch in the lab, tested, rinsed and repeated?

wiki

Your (mainstream) problem is confabulating the KH instability for the Kruskal–Shafranov (kink) instability, YOUR LIKED PAPER

So the the Kelvin-Helmholtz fluid dynamical shear instability is driven by the black holes gravity?? That's the best you can do?

:eek:

Meantime, over in the plasma physics world, no mystery. Just plasma doing plasma stuff!

Word salad. I'll repeat - what mechanism is Scott using to create Birkeland currents (which only exist in planetary magnetospheres) from an extremely sparse, quasi-neutral plasma in the middle of nowhere?

Meantime, over in the plasma physics world

But your cult has no plasma physicists, and no plasma physicists agree with your nonsense. So, it is nothing to do with plasma physics, is it? Rhetorical.
 
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