Early Education and Emancipation

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Hi folks. It's good to be back at the world premier homeschool site. The place of open minds to high achievement at young ages.

Today I'd like to talk about a problem faced by those not ruled by the state educational system, and who are capable of finishing their education years earlier than the dumbed-down state system. The problem is child labor laws.

I started construction at 13 years old. It is now illegal until age 18 in the state I worked. If you finished high school at 12 years old, which I believe anyone with an average IQ is capable of - it would still be illegal to work even if it were a desk job in a perfect climate controlled environment or even remotely at home. (The exception is family businesses, which is why our kids have over $80k between them already)

This is part of the objective for child labor laws - to make adolescents slaves of the educational industry until they are legal adults and can vote against politicians that oppress them in this way. Another objective is by older workers who do not want the competition from younger workers. So they protect the younger workers by denying them the right to work.

Our kids will be done with their college educations soon enough. Both started at age 13. The 14 year old is in his 5th semester of aerospace engineering and the 13 year old is just finishing his first semester.

The 13 year old faces a tougher employment problem because his program is only 2 years. We'll have him do additional certificates that will push his graduation off until age 16.

And at 16 both of them will get court granted "emancipation". That makes them legal adults in almost every respect, but most importantly with employment. The stupid child labor laws do not apply to an emancipated person.

There are five criteria in our state, all of them easy to exceed. They have to live on their own and support themselves, basically. The law is a catch-22 in that they are not allowed to legally work but are required to support themselves in order to get emancipated and work, lol. I do acknowledge you and your employer can get a permit on a case by case basis, for example a 16 year old can work in a grocery store here with a permit.

But the bureaucrats do not look kindly on oilfield work which our 13 year old is qualifying for. We met with the oil company recruiter that we are most interested in, and gave him the Alaska state labor handbook with the provisions for emancipated teens. He was very encouraging and wrote us back after submitting it to his legal department.

When we met the recruiter he explained that if you do their internship from the program he is enrolled in, it is basically a lead pipe cinch for permanent employment. They start at $85K and average $135k after five years. We were blown away by the bonus program he informed us of: every five years, the employees get a $100,000 bonus if the company meets its production goals, and they always have.

That means while our son is still a teenager he will have a $200,000 + year. That's what early education and emancipation can do for you.

 

[Thermal]

"Stupid Child Labor Laws" exist because of how open child labor is to exploitation, especially among the poor who are desperate for income.

If half of what you are saying about your kids' situation is true, the problems would resolve themselves quickly.

Alternatively, is there any reason you can't just let them enjoy adolescence for a bit before feeding them into the Machine? Let them date the boys or girls of their choice and go to prom and stuff before sticking them in a working environment where even dating would be literally illegal?

 

[Darat]

There was nothing wrong with 8 year olds running between the looms grabbing the fluff for 8 hours a day I mean a few did lose fingers and hands but hey they weren’t under the rule of stupid child labour laws. Or at 13 being in service starting the day at 5am and finishing whenever they were allowed to at nighttime, 6 1/2 days a week.

Those are two real examples from my family’s living memory, one was a great Uncle and he only ever lost the tip of one finger, the service at 13 was my grandmother.

 

[junkshop]

Why speedrun life?

Slow down a bit, enjoy the scenery. Waste time having fun with friends (or on your own, whatever floats your boat). Point is that the time before you have to work, and can explore who you are, and what you might want to do or be is short and precious.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that you've denied your kids a ton of important social, personal and interpersonal experiences and lessons in order to make them into efficient capital production units.

I don't like it. Maybe it's a failure of communication, but it comes across (to me, at least) that you are far more invested in getting one over on the system, in finding loopholes in child labour laws, in getting your kids into the workforce ASAP, no matter if doing so denies them the opportunity to grow up with, and share their adolescence with their peers, than you are in their personal, social and emotional development.

I hope that they won't come to resent you for denying them their adolescence.

 

[Thermal]

Hi folks. It's good to be back at the world premier homeschool site. The place of open minds to high achievement at young ages.

Today I'd like to talk about a problem...

Not really, though, considering you posted the thread and vanished.

..faced by those not ruled by the state educational system, and who are capable of finishing their education years earlier than the dumbed-down state system. The problem is child labor laws.

I started construction at 13 years old. It is now illegal until age 18 in the state I worked. If you finished high school at 12 years old, which I believe anyone with an average IQ is capable of - it would still be illegal to work even if it were a desk job in a perfect climate controlled environment or even remotely at home. (The exception is family businesses, which is why our kids have over $80k between them already)

This is part of the objective for child labor laws - to make adolescents slaves of the educational industry until they are legal adults and can vote against politicians that oppress them in this way. Another objective is by older workers who do not want the competition from younger workers. So they protect the younger workers by denying them the right to work.

Our kids will be done with their college educations soon enough. Both started at age 13. The 14 year old is in his 5th semester of aerospace engineering and the 13 year old is just finishing his first semester.

The 13 year old faces a tougher employment problem because his program is only 2 years. We'll have him do additional certificates that will push his graduation off until age 16.

And at 16 both of them will get court granted "emancipation". That makes them legal adults in almost every respect, but most importantly with employment. The stupid child labor laws do not apply to an emancipated person.

The Child labor laws do not apply even if the kid is not emancipated. A 16yo can go work his tail off like an adult, if you give consent on a work permit.

There are five criteria in our state, all of them easy to exceed. They have to live on their own and support themselves, basically. The law is a catch-22 in that they are not allowed to legally work but are required to support themselves in order to get emancipated and work, lol. I do acknowledge you and your employer can get a permit on a case by case basis, for example a 16 year old can work in a grocery store here with a permit.

Or anywhere else. Alaska allows even 14 yr olds to work a 9 hour day, and 23 hrs a week even while still in school. At 16, you have to get a permit but there are no significant restrictions that an independent adult wouldn't face.

{Eta: a quick Google search also shows an Alaskan can get a GED at the age of 16 (although 18 is the common age) or simply drop out of school, so no hour restrictions based on school being in session}

But the bureaucrats do not look kindly on oilfield work which our 13 year old is qualifying for. We met with the oil company recruiter that we are most interested in, and gave him the Alaska state labor handbook with the provisions for emancipated teens. He was very encouraging and wrote us back after submitting it to his legal department.

Dude, I hate to be the one to break this to you, but it sounds like you are being played for a sucker. The only thing that really changes if you go the emancipation route is that you will lose rights to advocate for him. The way you describe this, it sounds more like they are trying to get this kid on his own, without parents having legal input, and you will have limited recourse when he finds out the work promises made were largely empty.

When we met the recruiter he explained that if you do their internship from the program he is enrolled in, it is basically a lead pipe cinch for permanent employment. They start at $85K and average $135k after five years. We were blown away by the bonus program he informed us of: every five years, the employees get a $100,000 bonus if the company meets its production goals, and they always have.

Ok, this one sounds like pure bull ◊◊◊◊, so I looked into it. Ye Olde internet is only aware of one such occurrence, and it is vastly different from what you describe.

An Alaskan outfit called Hilltop, way back in 2010, gave their oil rig employees a $35,000 cash, or $50,000 towards a new car bonus (seems they were involved with the car distributors so had some leverage there). In 2015, workers doubled the production goals, and Hilltop very generously kicked a full $100k to the workers. They did not repeat this offer "every five years" as you claim, and it was not for meeting production goals, but for doubling them.

Sauce: https://www.forbes.com/sites/christ...billionaire-gives-each-worker-a-100000-bonus/

I'll stand corrected if wrong, but I can't find any reference at all to what you are claiming.

That means while our son is still a teenager he will have a $200,000 + year. That's what early education and emancipation can do for you.

Two points, here. One is that if your son started working there at age 16, then he would be 21 when he received the "$200k+" year. Maybe homeschool math is different, but 21 years old is not a teenager.

Second, I don't see any starting or 5 year salaries as high as you are claiming anywhere in the Alaskan oil industry.

But let's take your claims as a given. Surely you would realize that you are in a highly unusual bubble economy, where everyone is apparently a millionaire and employers can't get workers, so have to cough up extraordinarily high pay to coax people in? That doesn't exist virtually anywhere else in the States, where the opposite is true: plenty of workers, so lower pay. Elementary level supply and demand.

Out here in the real world, ain't no "morons" as you described welders, getting a couple hundred an hour. Or mechanics, or firewood cutters, or any of the other jobs you mentioned. It just doesnt exist, and if in your economy, it did, then rates would quickly drop when better candidates swarmed in willing to work for much less.

 

[Thermal]

Ok, we are at one week and the subject that OP wanted to talk about... he seems to not want to talk about. He was just kidding, I guess?

 

[LiteBright]

Great idea emancipating your children so they can work. Perhaps you can put up a sign over your doorway that says Arbeit Marcht Frei "work sets you free"

 

[Thermal]

I think if we offered emancipation earlier, we could homeschool these lazy whelps to be surgeons by age 9 and operating before puberty, making several hundred dollars a year in bonuses. It's just math. And reality.

 

[junkshop]

A possible plus side: children, once legally emancipated, are free from having to comply with their parents' ideology.
.

 

[ahhell]

Ok, we are at one week and the subject that OP wanted to talk about... he seems to not want to talk about. He was just kidding, I guess?

It pretty much reads like an attempt at veiled trolling. That being said, I do think there are some benefits to "child" labor. Easing kids into to the work force via safe entry level after school jobs isn't so bad. I did ok as a paper delivery boy and seasonal farm worker.

 

[Thermal]

It pretty much reads like an attempt at veiled trolling. That being said, I do think there are some benefits to "child" labor. Easing kids into to the work force via safe entry level after school jobs isn't so bad. I did ok as a paper delivery boy and seasonal farm worker.

Oh hell ya, agreed. I had what they used to call "working papers" at age 14. Each of my kids, a generation later, also earned their own pocket jingle working jobs they chose on their own. I think that's an indispensable part of growing up.

But it's equally important to have Child Labor Laws, to make sure they don't end up in a coal mine or massage parlor.

 

[novaphile]

It pretty much reads like an attempt at veiled trolling. That being said, I do think there are some benefits to "child" labor. Easing kids into to the work force via safe entry level after school jobs isn't so bad. I did ok as a paper delivery boy and seasonal farm worker.

I think so too.

For me it was paper rounds as a child, and Pizza Hut towards the end of High School.

One of the awkward factors of multi-generational unemployment is that youngsters have no 'model' of people preparing for work, going to work, etc. Youth jobs can help address that. (i.e. you start with having to work one or two two and a half hour shifts per week, and gradually build up from there.)

Every job for me, was another rung on the ladder, until I'd earned enough money to do my first degree.

 

[The Man]

Same here, got my working papers at 16 and worked gas stations, car washes and a video/pinball arcade till HS graduation. Then worked my way through college mopping floors and cleaning bathrooms. At times in the same buildings I'd work (off and on) as a field engineering supplement through a program with the college.

 

[Olmstead]

Instructions unclear. Child has developed severe inferiority complex and depression.

So, do I just take them out back with a shotgun ...

 

[Thermal]

Wrapping up week two of our intrepid "jk didn't really want to talk about this" OP's absence, as we move boldly into week three of not wanting to talk about the thread he started. Apparently he sees himself as the idea guy, not much on actual discussion.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Whenever someone suggests removing a regulation, they should first have to give a presentation on why it was put in in the first place and why it is no longer necessary.

 

[ahhell]

Whenever someone suggests removing a regulation, they should first have to give a presentation on why it was put in in the first place and why it is no longer necessary.

Not a bad Idea, they should probably include metric of success for both new regulation and repealing regulation.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

This thread reminds me of https://www.salon.com/2011/04/05/my_father_the_objectivist/

 

[Thermal]

This thread reminds me of a seagull dropping a deuce and flying away.

Moving into month two of OP wanting to talk about this without talking about this. An exercise in telepathy, I guess.