Merged Due process in the US

Yes, you did:

That really ought to get you the 20 points for item 23.
What's really funny is that what he's *explicitly* denying what he himself said. I wrote that the film showed "no such thing", referring exactly to whatever Hercules56 had written. And he responds "Never said it did". He's actually saying: "I never said the thing I said" in as many words.
 
Evidence is not presented at an arraignment hearing. At the next stage - a preliminary hearing is the first time evidence will be put before a judge.

ETA: Remember we are talking about a federal court, not a state court.
As part of the normal arraignment procedures, yes. What's been said that is if a Judge chooses to allow such, generally under a reasonably trustworthy claim that it is an extremely open and shut frivolous case, they may exercise their discretion to see some evidence to see if that's the case. It's very uncommon for this to actually happen, of course, but uncommon is not never.

When it comes to the Garcia case, specifically, though, raising the potential for such to happen is a red herring, at best. The nationally public and highly politicized nature of the Garcia case effectively guarantees that that wouldn't happen, regardless of whether it is an extremely open and shut frivolous case. The most likely reasons for Hercules56 to try to pretend that the possibility is in any way meaningful to this case are either that he's trolling us or that he's grasping at straws because what he's been pushing is cult level stupid and, like a cultist, he's trying to reached a desired end without actually caring about how nonsensical the means invoked are.
 
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As I said the DoJ refutes your claim.
So? Judges preside over courts. Not the DOJ. I gave you a link where a Judge has often dismissed cases during an arraignment because of a lack of probable cause. Where he has watched police videos that show that the charges were false. This is called precedent.
 
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As part of the normal arraignment procedures, yes. What's been said that is if a Judge chooses to allow such, generally under a reasonably trustworthy claim that it is an extremely open and shut frivolous case, they may exercise their discretion to see some evidence to see if that's the case. It's very uncommon for this to actually happen, of course, but uncommon is not never.

When it comes to the Garcia case, specifically, though, raising the potential for such to happen is a red herring, at best. The nationally public and highly politicized nature of the Garcia case effectively guarantees that that wouldn't happen, regardless of whether it is an extremely open and shut frivolous case. The most likely reasons for Hercules56 to try to pretend that the possibility is in any way meaningful to this case are either that he's trolling us or that he's grasping at straws because what he's been pushing is cult level stupid and, like a cultist, he's trying to reached a desired end without actually caring about how nonsensical the means invoked are.
It's a federal court so probable cause has already been established - that's what the grand jury does so unless there is a legal defect it is a straightforward charges, rights and plea hearing.

You are correct at the grasping of straws approach, anyone who believes in due process will not say any part of a trial establishes any kind of legal guilt until either the judge or jury makes such a judgement. You'd almost think that "innocent unless guilty" should only apply to certain classes of folk listening to some arguments about him; folks such as Trump and Bondi.

(Of course, as lay folk we are all able to come to a conclusion about guilt regardless of due process.)
 
So? Judges preside over courts. Not the DOJ. I gave you a link where a Judge has often dismissed cases during an arraignment because of a lack of probable cause. Where he has watched police videos that show that the charges were false. This is called precedent.
That is not a federal court. "Probable cause" has already been established by the grand jury, which is its purpose. So there are no grounds for a judge to look at the evidence at this stage and declare there is no probable cause, only a legal defect of some sort could get it thrown out at the arraignment.
 
What's really funny is that what he's *explicitly* denying what he himself said. I wrote that the film showed "no such thing", referring exactly to whatever Hercules56 had written. And he responds "Never said it did". He's actually saying: "I never said the thing I said" in as many words.
Well, I was thinking, "do I need to link to the post he said it in", but then I realised that it was actually quoted in the post he was replying to.

Where's the "facepalm" smiley?
 
That is not a federal court. "Probable cause" has already been established by the grand jury, which is its purpose. So there are no grounds for a judge to look at the evidence at this stage and declare there is no probable cause, only a legal defect of some sort could get it thrown out at the arraignment.
I didn't say it was.
 
WTF is this?

New York City Comptroller Brad Lander was detained inside a Lower Manhattan immigration court building Tuesday morning by masked federal agents as he attempted to escort a man from his court appearance there.

Moments ahead of his detention, Lander had linked arms with the man leaving an immigration courtroom on the 12th floor, refusing to let go as masked federal agents pushed into the crowd attempting to pull the man away.

In the chaotic scene at around noon, Lander asked the agents repeatedly to show a judicial warrant.

“You do not have the authority to arrest U.S. citizens,” Lander repeated, as the officers tightened handcuffs to his wrists.

The federal agents escorted him into an elevator, with one member of his NYPD security detail alongside him.
 
This is the problem. Trump has law enforcement do a great, many things without regard to legality. Democrats cry foul.
If Biden did this, Republicans would cry foul..........and so would Democrats. This is the difference between parties.
 
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I'd actually like to know more details.

This was a hearing in immigration court. Presumably, immigration court is there to consider immigration cases and make judgements as to the disposition of the defendant. ICE should be bound by the decisions of the immigration court. What determination, if any, did the court make?

If the court decided he should be deported, then ICE should detain and deport him.

If the court decided he should not be deported, then ICE should not have arrested him.

If the court had not reached a verdict, meaning the case is still in process and under consideration, ICE should not have arrested him.

If the latter two are the case, then what ICE was doing seems like it should be illegal. Is it illegal to interfere with law enforcement doing illegal things?
If the first scenario is true, then the comptroller did, in fact commit a crime and was subject to arrest.

Overall, however, I find the idea of using immigration courts as flypaper problematic.
 
They just don't give a ◊◊◊◊.

US immigration raids continued to target southern California communities in recent days, including at a popular flea market and in a Los Angeles suburb where US citizens were detained.

On Saturday, as mass protests swept the nation, including tens of thousands demonstrating in LA, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (Ice) agents descended on a swap meet in Santa Fe Springs in southeast LA county. Video showed dozens of heavily armed, masked officers carrying out the raid before a scheduled concert at the long-running event that features vendors, food and entertainment every weekend


Witnesses told the Los Angeles Times that agents appeared to be going after people who “looked Hispanic in any way”, sparking widespread fear. Also over the weekend, video emerged of immigration actions in Montebello, a suburb east of the city of LA. Last Thursday, armed border patrol agents, who drove in an unmarked car, ended up detaining Jason Brian Gavidia and pressing him against a fence by an auto body shop he runs, the New York Times reported.

An agent interrogated Gavidia, a US citizen, asking, “What hospital were you born at?” Gavidia, 29, was born down the street, and video shows agents twisting his arm, as he said, “I’m American! … I’ll show you my ID. I was born here.” A witness filming the encounter is heard saying: “Literally based off skin color.”
Gavidia was released, but Javier Ramirez, another US citizen who is Gadivia’s friend and coworker, was detained by two agents, forced facedown on the ground and taken to federal detention, where he has remained in custody, the New York Times reported.

Salvador Melendez, the mayor of Montebello, a city that is 79% Latino, told the Guardian on Monday that the videos and reports of Ice in his community had caused widespread anxiety.

“This is racial profiling. They’re stopping folks because of the way they look,” said Melendez. “Ice agents are terrorizing our community. They are taking actions and asking questions later. There is absolutely no due process.”
 
This is the problem. Trump has law enforcement do a great, many things without regard to legality. Democrats cry foul.
If Biden did this, Republicans would cry foul..........and so would Democrats. This is the difference between parties.

Reminds me of a simple observation. For all the complaints that can be made about the Democratic Party, aiding and abetting rampant corruption and lawlessness among their ranks is not one of them. The same cannot be said of the Republican Party.

Overall, however, I find the idea of using immigration courts as flypaper problematic.
About the kindest one can reasonably be about that idea is calling it lazy and short-sighted. It undermines the courts and the legal system more broadly. If you want to make things worse, this is the kind of thing you do. Unfortunately, Republican strategy too often is all about making things worse for America and creating problems that they then seek to exploit for some advantage.
 
Reminds me of a simple observation. For all the complaints that can be made about the Democratic Party, aiding and abetting rampant corruption and lawlessness among their ranks is not one of them. The same cannot be said of the Republican Party.


About the kindest one can reasonably be about that idea is calling it lazy and short-sighted. It undermines the courts and the legal system more broadly. If you want to make things worse, this is the kind of thing you do. Unfortunately, Republican strategy too often is all about making things worse for America and creating problems that they then seek to exploit for some advantage.
Exactly. They create a problem and then claim that only they can solve that problem. Republicans are the reason government programs don't work well. In this instance, they want to create an immigration problem so big that it motivates the racist base to desire the creation concentration camps and or deporting people do their deaths.
 
I'm legitimately shocked it hasn't happened yet.
Especially since you don't know if the masked people are really ICE things or, say, human traffickers.

Then again, of course, even if they are ICE that still could mean a lifetime stay at a Black Site, so what's the difference in the first place.
 
I'd actually like to know more details.

This was a hearing in immigration court. Presumably, immigration court is there to consider immigration cases and make judgements as to the disposition of the defendant. ICE should be bound by the decisions of the immigration court. What determination, if any, did the court make?

If the court decided he should be deported, then ICE should detain and deport him.

If the court decided he should not be deported, then ICE should not have arrested him.

If the court had not reached a verdict, meaning the case is still in process and under consideration, ICE should not have arrested him.

If the latter two are the case, then what ICE was doing seems like it should be illegal. Is it illegal to interfere with law enforcement doing illegal things?
If the first scenario is true, then the comptroller did, in fact commit a crime and was subject to arrest.

Overall, however, I find the idea of using immigration courts as flypaper problematic.


DO ICE have the authority to arrest a citizen?

Where was their warrant?
 
DO ICE have the authority to arrest a citizen?

Where was their warrant?
They probably have the authority to arrest anyone if there is Probable Cause that they have committed a crime. In this case the crime is obstruction of government administration.

Plus he's another Northeast schmuck running for office who got involved in an immigration incident so as to increase his poll numbers.

Sigh.
 
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They probably have the authority to arrest anyone if there is Probable Cause that they have committed a crime. In this case the crime is obstruction of government administration.

Plus he's another Northeast schmuck running for office who got involved in an immigration incident so as to increase his poll numbers.

Sigh.
Your MAGA is showing. How embarrassing for you.
 
i feel like that probably should be more of a maybe. being that immigration is more of a civil matter than criminal one, i’m not so sure they need to arrest anyone. especially people here legally. perhaps they can refer criminals over to agencies with that authority and they can stick to enforcing immigration laws
 

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