Dominique Pélicot and others

Matthew Best

Penultimate Amazing
Matthew Best
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I mentioned this case in the "Rape Culture" thread, but it got no response, so perhaps there will be more interest here.

It's one of the most shocking and disturbing things I think I have ever heard and I assume it's big news in America as well as the UK, although it happened in France.

Here's today's update from day 3 of the trial on BBC News:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd9dwxexp77o
 
I just read the BBC report on it, and then thought that maybe going on past the trigger warning hadn't been such a good idea. Nevertheless there doesn't seem to be a lot of doubt about guilt here.
 
Rolfe said:
I just read the BBC report on it, and then thought that maybe going on past the trigger warning hadn't been such a good idea. Nevertheless there doesn't seem to be a lot of doubt about guilt here.
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I think the only question, and the only grounds for a defense, are whether all those involved knew the acts were non-consensual. Certainly that seems to be line being taken.
 
catsmate said:
I think the only question, and the only grounds for a defense, are whether all those involved knew the acts were non-consensual. Certainly that seems to be line being taken.
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Even if they establish that, it's still disturbing that Pelicot was apparently easily able to find literally dozens of men within easy reach of his small town who were perfectly willing to have sex with an unconscious woman.

If I were a woman (I'm not - I don't even identify as one for the purpose of winning Olympic medals) I think I'd be pretty disgusted with men in general right now.
 
It's big news here, and we're 20,000 km from the action.

Matthew Best said:
Even if they establish that, it's still disturbing that Pelicot was apparently easily able to find literally dozens of men within easy reach of his small town who were perfectly willing to have sex with an unconscious woman.
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Disturbed is fine; surprised would be naive.

Matthew Best said:
If I were a woman (I'm not - I don't even identify as one for the purpose of winning Olympic medals) I think I'd be pretty disgusted with men in general right now.
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You don't even need to be female - I'm disgusted with my gender on a daily basis.
 
Matthew Best said:
OK, what percentage are we talking about here?
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I need some maths to get this as close as possible. My gut reaction was 20%, so I'll see how that turns out.

According to the National Sexual Violence Resource Center, 20% of women experience sexual assault during their lifetime.

We know that sexual assault is under-reported for a variety of reasons, and I don't think it's drawing a long bow to suggest that a woman raped while unconscious is less likely to report being raped.

So, let's say that around a quarter of all women are victims of sexual assault at some time.

Those are cases where there is clear criminal intent and an obvious chance of the perpetrator being sent to jail.

In the case of a drunken or unconscious woman being raped, the chances of being sent to jail all but disappear, so much so that I am certain there will be far more men who would do that than drag a girl into the bushes.

Given that most sexual predators commit more than one offence, I think it's reasonable to say 5% of men would commit an offence regardless of being caught, and that for every one of them, there are three who would if they were sure of not being caught, hence my 20% looks ok on a post-hoc analysis.
 
The Atheist said:
Coincidentally, this was posted elsewhere today: A third of male university students say they would rape a woman if there no were no consequences

My 20% might be light.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...if-there-no-were-no-consequences-9978052.html
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I just can't wrap my head around this at all. Probably because of upbringing or genetics, it's not something that would cross my mind to even be an option.

In addition, what fun is an unconscious and unresponsive partner? Maybe that's a kink I just don't have. And I don't begrudge anyone their kinks between consenting adults. Ropes, handcuffs, gags, whips, chains, CNC, do what you like, but it's literally no fun at all if the other person isn't into it.
 
3point14 said:
I just can't wrap my head around this at all. Probably because of upbringing or genetics, it's not something that would cross my mind to even be an option.
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Well, you've had two Prime Ministers who felt it was ok to simulate sex with a dead pig, so maybe it's local colour.

3point14 said:
In addition, what fun is an unconscious and unresponsive partner?
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Reminds me of the old French joke.

A bloke in Paris calls the police. "Alors, a man at the next building is having sex with a corpse!"

Police come over to him later. "Monsieur, you were mistaken, she is English."

Some people get a kick out of lots of things, and clearly, sex with an unconscious woman is one of them.
 
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