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Does a college degree lead to desired employment?

wasapi

Penultimate Amazing
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
16,463
Of course not, I know.

A year ago, my grandson graduated with honors from UC Davis. He started his major in Biochemistry, but changed course and got his BA in Cinema and Digital media. He also did a 3 year internship with the Davis Athletics in marketing, events and operations.

Since graduating, he has scraped by mostly doing call-center, low paying jobs, and is frustrated. I believe part of his problem has been because he is so introverted and lacks confidence.

Anyway, this leads me to question if the is common, and what the statistics show. Any information, or just thoughts about the issue of finding work after the degree, would be appreciated.

Thanks.
 
Best thing he can do for experience and contacts and job interviews is this:

https://s2018.siggraph.org/

It is in Vancouver in August, he should strongly consider volunteering to work part time (and attend/do stuff the rest of the time). They have local chapters around the US and world and joining if one is near him is also good. My wife got to do presentations and take students to it (as volunteers) and was a member for many years until we retired. The students loved the experience and picked up much good info and saw a lot of programs and devices they got to play with on the show floor. PM me if you need more information or have questions not in the flyer here: https://s2018.siggraph.org/
 
Does a college degree lead to desired employment?

Depends on the degree and the desired employment.
 
Note: I have no financial interest in SIGGRAPH but had a lot of fun at them!!! And she and I got a local chapter started at a University near us (in Orlando). That was many years ago!!!
 
Once upon a time, there were so few people getting college degrees that any old college degree was a big deal. Those days were over by the time I was a kid, and I am not young. Sorry, no statistics here, but you have to have a marketable skill to land a job that you want.

It sounds like he is smart, since he graduated with honors, so he can probably develop a marketable skill, but he is at a stage in his life where he needs to convince someone that he can actually do something for someone, and having a college diploma is no longer convincing all by itself.
 
In Australia graduates have high employment rates on above average wages. However those who complete vocational courses (trades and traineeships) have higher employment and higher wages than graduates.

ETA the real losers are those without any post-school education or training. In Australia at least, but I'm sure elsewhere
 
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Of course not, I know.

A year ago, my grandson graduated with honors from UC Davis. He started his major in Biochemistry, but changed course and got his BA in Cinema and Digital media. He also did a 3 year internship with the Davis Athletics in marketing, events and operations.

Since graduating, he has scraped by mostly doing call-center, low paying jobs, and is frustrated. I believe part of his problem has been because he is so introverted and lacks confidence.

Anyway, this leads me to question if the is common, and what the statistics show. Any information, or just thoughts about the issue of finding work after the degree, would be appreciated.

Thanks.

The big question is what does he want to do? A BA in cinema and digital media isn't going to break him into TV and film; for that you probably need to get an MFA, and even after that the competition is pretty fierce. The sports marketing/events might be an option, although of course to continue there he'd need to be looking at a sports franchise, and long term that would almost certainly mean moving to the big city.

In short, it is hard to steer a course when you don't know where you want to go.
 
he is so introverted and lacks confidence.

In that case he's going to struggle to be accepted pretty much anywhere. It's not right, I know, but that how society is.

Degrees are now much less impressive than they used to be (anecdote: I had to have a Masters to get a lousy 'phone tech support job). Fuelair's suggestion, I think, is right on the money. He should try to show people what he can do. Does he have a web presence where he showcases his work?
 
As previously stated. Depends on the degree, depends on the chosen field. Some fields sound fun. So fun, that a lot of people get degrees in them when in reality there are few opportunities. How many children's book illustrators do we really need? Other fields, simply getting into and making it through the program virtually guarantees you a good, high paying job in the field. But not many qualify for the programs and not all of those who qualify are capable of finishing them.

Other fields, the degree alone won't get you the opportunities. The degree just qualifies you to sit for the professional certification exam, but you have to pass that too in order to work in your chosen field. It's a shame, but some make it through a degree program, but can't or won't complete the certification requirement. Thinking of somebody to stops their education with a bachelors in accounting. You need additional credits among other requirements to sit for the CPA exam. Then you need to pass the CPA. A degree in accounting does not an accountant make.

Opportunities also may not be exactly what you want. Maybe there aren't opportunities in the town you grew up in, but you are unwilling to move out of state where the opportunities are. Or you want to work in a certain professional setting, but to start out, you have to take a job in a less glamorous setting. That's not the fault of the degree or the profession. That's the fault of the applicant.
 
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Of course not, I know.

A year ago, my grandson graduated with honors from UC Davis. He started his major in Biochemistry, but changed course and got his BA in Cinema and Digital media. He also did a 3 year internship with the Davis Athletics in marketing, events and operations.

Since graduating, he has scraped by mostly doing call-center, low paying jobs, and is frustrated. I believe part of his problem has been because he is so introverted and lacks confidence.

Anyway, this leads me to question if the is common, and what the statistics show. Any information, or just thoughts about the issue of finding work after the degree, would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Sometimes 'yes' but most of the time 'no'.

The fact is that most people (whether they are college graduates or not) are not working at the jobs that they want to work at. Therefore, one often sees some amount of depression which is caused by one working at job that they really do not want to do.

As for myself, I have been rather fortunate. I have liked every job that I have since I graduated college and I needed that college degree to get these jobs; so college worked out quite well for me.

But of course, not everyone is so fortunate.
 
As others have said, it depends. I got a BS in engineering because I knew there were jobs in the field, even though other subjects would have been more interesting. Had a nice 40+ year career and retired financially secure.
My brother got a BA in psychology and spent his life doing customer service for the phone company. He'd be broke if not for an inheritance from my parents.
 
Of course not, I know.

A year ago, my grandson graduated with honors from UC Davis. He started his major in Biochemistry, but changed course and got his BA in Cinema and Digital media. He also did a 3 year internship with the Davis Athletics in marketing, events and operations.

Since graduating, he has scraped by mostly doing call-center, low paying jobs, and is frustrated. I believe part of his problem has been because he is so introverted and lacks confidence.

Anyway, this leads me to question if the is common, and what the statistics show. Any information, or just thoughts about the issue of finding work after the degree, would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Depends on the degree, if your nephew had stuck with the biochem degree, he'd probably be able to find a job using his biochem degree.
 
Purely my subjective impression: Skill sets and knowledge sets are two different things. Over the years, I've come to perceive that most real-world jobs require both, and that skill sets are the more valuable commodity.

I've also come to perceive that college degrees generally provide a body of knowledge, but not usually a marketable skill set related to that body of knowledge. In my field--DevOps--it might be nice to have a software developer with a degree in computer programming theory. But what you really want is a software developer who:
  • Has experience with industry-standard development tools and processes
  • Has experience with agile project management methodologies
  • Has a portfolio of actual working code that they have written

Or again, I'm in DevOps, but I'm not a software developer. I'm on the operations side. I think it might be nice if systems operators had degrees in cybernetics, but none of them do. And what I really want, from someone joining my team, is this:
  • Hands-on experience in systems operations
  • Demonstrated troubleshooting competency
  • Familiarity with industry-standard tools and processes
  • Familiarity with agile project management

These are not skills that are much taught by universities. Nor are they skills that are much informed by computer science theory.

If I were going to hire a fresh college grad for my team, I'd rather hire an English Lit major who had a part time job in the college IT department (and good work references), than a Computer Science major who had a part time job waiting tables.

In my ideal world, the progression would go something like this:

Get the entry-level skills -> Get the entry-level job -> Grow the skills -> Grow the career -> Get the degree -> Advance the career into higher-level conceptual and theoretical domains -- Systems architecture, project management, etc.

That said, there are some jobs where a theory-heavy computer science degree is in high demand, even at the entry level. If you can find one of those, and want to make a career of it, then by all means get the degree first, and then go job hunting.
 
Of course not, I know.

A year ago, my grandson graduated with honors from UC Davis. He started his major in Biochemistry, but changed course and got his BA in Cinema and Digital media. He also did a 3 year internship with the Davis Athletics in marketing, events and operations.

Since graduating, he has scraped by mostly doing call-center, low paying jobs, and is frustrated. I believe part of his problem has been because he is so introverted and lacks confidence.

Anyway, this leads me to question if the is common, and what the statistics show. Any information, or just thoughts about the issue of finding work after the degree, would be appreciated.

Thanks.
I presume that when he changed majors he recognized it would be more difficult to find a job with a degree in Cinema and Digital Media rather than completing one in Biochemistry? Don't get me wrong: it is wonderful that he was able to pursue his interests in college! In my view college is primarily the opportunity to learn more about what excites you. For four years you can immerse yourself in what thrills you.

In some cases, biochemistry or computer science for example, one is extra lucky- what interests you also gives you training and experience in vocations that have fair to good job markets. Now-a-days even those majors do not assure a job, but they improve your chances. But other majors represent a more pure pursuit of one's dream rather than a vocational advantage.

So yes, a college degree can lead to a much better chance of obtaining desired employment. But it depends on the degree. Still worth noting is that many employers do favor (modestly) applicants with college degrees even if they are not directly linked to the particular job opening as evidence of having good learning skills and some level of responsibility and dedication.

More specifically in terms of Cinema and Digital Media. Did your grandson do any internships during college- either with a faculty member or an outside organization/business? My understanding is that these types of internships significantly improve one's chances of obtaining a job in these areas after graduation: they represent real-world experience and they allow the student to begin to make the contacts that are so critical in these areas. If not, and your grandson really wishes to find a job in these areas, I think he needs to try to find an internship now (although it will be more difficult now post degree). Plus, of course, internships are likely to be unpaid, so he will need an independent source of income. A caution- I suspect that there are "workshops" and "internships" in these areas that are ripoffs. Sorry, I don't know how to find the right ones.

I guess that your grandson being introverted and insecure is a particular problem in the areas that interest him most. My friends in these areas exude confidence, are very chatty, and are able to make prospective employers (and clients) immediately like them. There are programs to help build self-confidence and your grandson might consider one. It is a tough issue. Self-confidence and being at ease with other people are big pluses in any form of employment.
 
Harold E. Varmus, co-recipient of the 1989 Nobel Prize of Medicine and ex-Director of the National Institutes of Health and National Cancer Institute, began with a B.A. in English Literature from Amherst and a Masters in English from Harvard. He changed his mind, went to medical school, focused on virology and cancer research, and became a professor, with the ultimate measures of success noted in my first line. So even liberal arts degrees can be the beginning of amazing job opportunities. But of course that was a different time (do medical schools accept English majors at all any more?) and, to be frank, Dr. Varmus is a freaking genus (and I do not use the term lightly).

I bring this up just as an extreme and as point of interest- I am not recommending embarking on this type of path for anyone just beginning college unless they too are a freaking genus.
 
Purely my subjective impression: Skill sets and knowledge sets are two different things. Over the years, I've come to perceive that most real-world jobs require both, and that skill sets are the more valuable commodity.

I've also come to perceive that college degrees generally provide a body of knowledge, but not usually a marketable skill set related to that body of knowledge. In my field--DevOps--it might be nice to have a software developer with a degree in computer programming theory. But what you really want is a software developer who:
  • Has experience with industry-standard development tools and processes
  • Has experience with agile project management methodologies
  • Has a portfolio of actual working code that they have written

Or again, I'm in DevOps, but I'm not a software developer. I'm on the operations side. I think it might be nice if systems operators had degrees in cybernetics, but none of them do. And what I really want, from someone joining my team, is this:
  • Hands-on experience in systems operations
  • Demonstrated troubleshooting competency
  • Familiarity with industry-standard tools and processes
  • Familiarity with agile project management

These are not skills that are much taught by universities. Nor are they skills that are much informed by computer science theory.

If I were going to hire a fresh college grad for my team, I'd rather hire an English Lit major who had a part time job in the college IT department (and good work references), than a Computer Science major who had a part time job waiting tables.

In my ideal world, the progression would go something like this:

Get the entry-level skills -> Get the entry-level job -> Grow the skills -> Grow the career -> Get the degree -> Advance the career into higher-level conceptual and theoretical domains -- Systems architecture, project management, etc.

That said, there are some jobs where a theory-heavy computer science degree is in high demand, even at the entry level. If you can find one of those, and want to make a career of it, then by all means get the degree first, and then go job hunting.

Well said!!!!:thumbsup:
 
A year ago, my grandson graduated with honors from UC Davis. He started his major in Biochemistry, but changed course and got his BA in Cinema and Digital media. He also did a 3 year internship with the Davis Athletics in marketing, events and operations.

Since graduating, he has scraped by mostly doing call-center, low paying jobs, and is frustrated. I believe part of his problem has been because he is so introverted and lacks confidence.
I'm an introvert with a B.A. in creative writing, and managed to get hired by a newspaper - as a clerk/typist. I was shy, didn't really like walking up to strangers and starting conversations, but with practice I got better. Your nephew needs motivation.

Video production IMO is going to be a growth industry. Those YouTube ads that say "You can skip to video in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1" seconds rely on getting the product name and a hook out in the first 5 seconds. Not everyone is cut out for advertising - I certainly wasn't - and my workaround was getting similar skills by following up on things I found genuinely interesting. Your nephew might try doing work (for free) around a cause or topic that interests him. There are nonprofit agencies that would love a helping hand. Like, if he was very into rescuing homeless dogs and cats there would be an opportunity for a 5-second hook followed by a little feature about a rescue animal. He might hate animals - I'm just using it as an example. As a clerk I was responsible for compiling a weekly list of church events and since no one was really covering religion I stumbled on some interesting stories about the local faith community.

I ended up having a long and satisfying media career, but it started with typing. From there I had to carve a niche for myself.

Second career, education - but not in English; there were plenty of English teachers. Education is still largely a protected field. Most states require a B.A. (in anything) for substitute teachers. The pay is terrible, but not having a teaching degree may not be a major hurdle for even a full-time teacher. Charter schools in my state do not have to hire certified teachers, as long as applicants can pass a content exam.

I found in myself a surprising interest in American adolescents. They have amazing stories. I can't *tell* those stories without waivers of privacy law, but I still think I might stumble upon the kind of story that demands to be told. It's no good producing content unless you have something to say. Those folks at the call center, are they busting their butts for $11 an hour and no benefits? Are there overlaps between biochemistry and video product?

He has to find his own way, and maybe none of this applies to his case. I'm just throwing out ideas. If he wants to get a job producing content he's got to produce content and for that he needs to have something to say.
 
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A year ago, my grandson graduated with honors from UC Davis. He started his major in Biochemistry, but changed course and got his BA in Cinema and Digital media. He also did a 3 year internship with the Davis Athletics in marketing, events and operations.

Since graduating, he has scraped by mostly doing call-center, low paying jobs, and is frustrated. I believe part of his problem has been because he is so introverted and lacks confidence.
I'm an introvert with a B.A. in creative writing, and managed to get hired by a newspaper - as a clerk/typist. I was shy, didn't really like walking up to strangers and starting conversations, but with practice I got better. Your nephew needs motivation.

Video production IMO is going to be a growth industry. Those YouTube ads that say "You can skip to video in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1" seconds rely on getting the product name and a hook out in the first 5 seconds. Not everyone is cut out for advertising - I certainly wasn't - and my workaround was getting similar skills by following up on things I found genuinely interesting. Your nephew might try doing work (for free) around a cause or topic that interests him. There are nonprofit agencies that would love a helping hand. Like, if he was very into rescuing homeless dogs and cats there would be an opportunity for a 5-second hook followed by a little feature about a rescue animal. He might hate animals - I'm just using it as an example. As a clerk I was responsible for compiling a weekly list of church events and since no one was really covering religion I stumbled on some interesting stories about the local faith community.

I ended up having a long and satisfying media career, but it started with typing. From there I had to carve a niche for myself.

Second career, education - but not in English; there were plenty of English teachers. Education is still largely a protected field. Most states require a B.A. (in anything) for substitute teachers. The pay is terrible, but not having a teaching degree may not be a major hurdle for even a full-time teacher. Charter schools in my state do not have to hire certified teachers, as long as applicants can pass a content exam.

But - and again this is anecdotal - I found in myself a surprising interest in American adolescents. Their stories fascinate me. I can't *tell* those stories now, but I still think I might stumble upon the kind of story that demands to be told. (For example, DACA matters to me and I have ended up serving dozens of these young people who are stuck in limbo due to no fault of their own.)

It's no good working in video if you don't have anything to say. So, what does he want to say? How about those folks at the call center? Are any of them busting their butts for $10.50 an hour with no benefits, trying to raise a family on "working poor" wages and hoping they don't get sick? How about, where does video production also relate to biochemistry?

He has to find his own way, and maybe none of this applies to his case. I'm just throwing out ideas. If he wants to get a job producing content he's got to produce content and for that he needs to have something to say.
 
A year ago, my grandson graduated with honors from UC Davis. He started his major in Biochemistry, but changed course and got his BA in Cinema and Digital media. He also did a 3 year internship with the Davis Athletics in marketing, events and operations.

First, he needs to get some experience in the field he is looking to work in. There is definitely an over reliance on degrees by those that have them, but as was expressed by another poster, hands on direct experience in a field far outweighs a general education in said field.

I don't believe he is relegated to the jobs he has settled for, given his education and internship. Introvert or not, it will take experience for him to get the opportunities in the field he is interested in. Maybe he should get some advice on interviewing and how to properly followup afterwards. Unfortunately this is not something that I've seen taught to people coming into the job market enough.

It is well and good to apply for jobs you are qualified for. Even nailing an interview doesn't guarantee you a position. I get that. But what followup is he doing beyond that. Is he in constant contact with jobs he has a passion to be employed in? Not just email, personally showing up. Making his name known for a future openings to be considered for. Maintaining contact with those in a position to hire. Stuff like this matters, and is often not pursued due to lack of guidance.

Or even more relevant, taking a position in a company that is entry level or not directly in the field he is interested in. But in a company that actually does said work. Sometimes getting your foot in the door and showing your ability and work ethic goes a long way.

A degree is only a foot in the door for most positions. How to excel beyond other applicants is something that is severely lacking for newcomers in the job market, and is not something that is taught in school.
 
Thanks so much everyone. I just checked and was surprised by all the replies.

I'm going to share this thread with my grandson because there are perfect ideas and thought for him to benefit from.

Yes, I'm a little sad his deep talent and interest in physics and biochemistry. He was my little skeptic. When he was little he told me his mom liked Sylvia Brown on Montell and believed her. While he, 9 year old Tristan, confided in me SB was a fraud and he didn't know why anyone would believe her!
 
Thanks so much everyone. I just checked and was surprised by all the replies.

I'm going to share this thread with my grandson because there are perfect ideas and thought for him to benefit from.

Yes, I'm a little sad his deep talent and interest in physics and biochemistry. He was my little skeptic. When he was little he told me his mom liked Sylvia Brown on Montell and believed her. While he, 9 year old Tristan, confided in me SB was a fraud and he didn't know why anyone would believe her!

Definitely bright, then!!!!!
 
That blows my mind. My company has trouble finding stem candidates at 20k more than that.
Those numbers really gloss over the great variety in STEM and non-Stem Degrees.

AG/food science majors are STEM fields but have starting salaries similar to the average liberal arts degree.

Then there's locations and even specialization within a field. A company in San Francisco is likely to pay a premium vs a company in Sacramento for instance.
 
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