ContraPoints video about Conspiracy Theories

Puppycow

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I recently finished watching a video on the topic of conspiracy theories, and I thought it was excellent, so I have decided to share it here.

I’ll try to give a brief explanation of what is in the video and why it might be worth your time to watch it. It is very long. I’ll concede that right up front. A little over 2 and a half hours, so about the same as a feature length movie. I think it is very well done though, and the person who made it clearly put a lot of time and effort into the production, including background research. The Youtuber in question is Natalie Wynn, and the channel is called ContraPoints. There is a Wikipedia article about her if you want more information on her background.

As I mentioned earlier the topic of this video is conspiracy theories and how they are shaping politics and culture today. I’d say that the role that conspiracy theories are playing at least in US politics is a very large role these days, and therefore it is important to understand why conspiracy theories exist, why so many people believe them, and how they can actually affect our lives and politics. They aren’t just a harmless sideshow or curiosity anymore. You could say that the Holocaust was based on conspiracy theories about Jews, so that is one of the more extreme examples of why it is important to take conspiracy theories seriously. The topics include the history of conspiracy theories, some examples, and a framework for understanding how conspiracy theorists think about the world.

For me, it took three sittings to get through the entire video. About 50 minutes each.

 
I think it's a pretty good video. In particular, she talks about the way in which people are often driven in their conspiracy theorizing by some psychological need for rooting out some very depraved people and punishing them, where it might be a case of the same people recognizing that depravity in themselves. I have often wondered about people who seem a little too much into the whole Epstein thing. There is something a little off also in the extremely strongly held convictions that Hillary Clinton is some kind of gangland killer who bathes in blood, etc...

It is also interesting in the way she points out that a lot of the conspiracy theories about 9/11 might be a kind of feeling of guilt about the war in Iraq, and that they only really got going at around 2006.

This is partly true, but I think she may have missed the point that for many people conspiracy theories are the losers' version of history. Many of those who believed that Pearl Harbor was LIHOP did so because they opposed America's entry into WWII and needed some way of still maintaining their opposition to FDR even as the Japanese and Hitler proved FDR's point that they were threat and made the America First people look stupid.

That said, I haven't finished this, so maybe she addresses that later.
 
There is something a little off also in the extremely strongly held convictions that Hillary Clinton is some kind of gangland killer who bathes in blood, etc...
Yeah, just a little bit. I never really got why so many people hated her in such an intense way. I don't know if you got to the part yet about Intentionalism, Dualism and Symbolism (part 3 according to the timestamps). But when you realize that these are the lenses that those people view the world through, it at least becomes understandable. It's sort of like how some Christian sects explain everything as part of a struggle between good and evil (God vs. Satan). And once you've pegged someone as being on the side of Satan, well, naturally you might suppose that all of the other things that we associate with "evil" go along with that.

The same human tendencies that make a lot of people believe in the organized religions are those that make those same people sympathetic to conspiracy theories. There tends to be an entire worldview that goes along with it, not just an isolated idea about a particular conspiracy theory.
 
Yeah, just a little bit. I never really got why so many people hated her in such an intense way. I don't know if you got to the part yet about Intentionalism, Dualism and Symbolism (part 3 according to the timestamps). But when you realize that these are the lenses that those people view the world through, it at least becomes understandable. It's sort of like how some Christian sects explain everything as part of a struggle between good and evil (God vs. Satan). And once you've pegged someone as being on the side of Satan, well, naturally you might suppose that all of the other things that we associate with "evil" go along with that.

The same human tendencies that make a lot of people believe in the organized religions are those that make those same people sympathetic to conspiracy theories. There tends to be an entire worldview that goes along with it, not just an isolated idea about a particular conspiracy theory.

imo it's because a huge chunk of the online skeptic community went anti-sjw around gamer gate, which was essentially a deliberate pipeline into the alt right and contrapoints is a trans breadtuber. i mean, check the first response to the thread.
 
imo it's because a huge chunk of the online skeptic community went anti-sjw around gamer gate, which was essentially a deliberate pipeline into the alt right and contrapoints is a trans breadtuber. i mean, check the first response to the thread.
I had a little trouble parsing what you're saying, but If by "it" you mean "why so many people hate Hillary Clinton in such an intense way" I think there's more to it than just the online skeptic community, which is a pretty small community in the grand scheme of things.
People are fairly tribal about their political parties, and she has said a few things that didn't seem like a big deal to me at the time, but I later realized probably felt alienating to some people. I agree that definitely a segment of "the online skeptic community" went alt-right (or maybe they already were mostly there anyway and just needed a little nudge to go all the way) around the time of gamer gate. Anti-feminism and anti-"woke" (which used to be called "political correctness") was a big theme.
But then with Hillary it went beyond that into conspiracy theories about people she had snuffed and so on.
 
Okay, I've watched the whole thing, 2:40:02, and I've seen far worse. Wynn makes some good points along the way, but as so often before when I'm watching videos, listening to podcasts or reading texts about conspiracy theories and the people addicted to them, it makes me think of this:
Why democrats fail at the criticism of fascism! (Ruthless Criticism)
Don't get me wrong; I'll give her credit for the effort, for trying, but let me start at the point where it becomes apparent that she, more or less explicitly, gives up her attempt to explain conspiracism. It's towards the end of part 5:
00:00 Part 0: Diagrams
06:15 Part 1: Just Asking Questions
21:25 Part 2: The Rabbit Pill
45:45 Part 3: Conspiracism
50:37 –Intentionalism
1:05:56 –Dualism
1:15:45 –Symbolism
1:29:01 Part 4: The Ritual
1:59:07 Part 5: It's a Big Club and You Ain't In It 2:20:24 Part 6: ?????

What makes her give up is a social-media post from someone who has asked an AI to translate some of Hitler's stuff into English and now thinks that it's brilliant, which makes her say:
It's just so stupid! How can you be this stupid? (...) It boggles my mind how susceptible to propaganda you are. It's not like someone tricked you by giving you a transcript without telling you who wrote it. They told you it was Hitler! And when you agreed with it anyway, did you question your own judgment? (...) I cannot believe how goddamn dumb you are.
I don't find it difficult at all to believe how dumb this fascist is because most people don't know much about fascism in general or Hitler's version of it in particular, and most people in democracies share several fascist ideas with Hitler because their democratic ideas aren't that different from fascism, which is what makes the transition from one to the other occur so frequently and so easily.
What she is having to cope with intellectually is a fascist who suddenly (if the story about the AI translation is true) finds out how much he has in common with a long-gone German fascist. And all she has as an argument against this happening is that he should know better than this, that it's not comme il faut for democrats to agree with Hitler.
In fact, her contemporary fascist feels betrayed because nobody ever told him how great Hitlers's ideas were! That's how little he claims to have known in advance! And he is not entirely wrong: When democrats confront fascism, they prefer to ignore the ideas of fascism. Instead, the confrontation is a psychologization: Hitler and his henchmen were bad people. (Another thing democrats have in common with fascists, cf. Trump's bad hombres.)

It's a great example of how portraying somebody as a monster without seriously criticizing his ideas does nothing whatsoever to immunize people against those ideas. It's like when Democrats/democrats portray themselves as the better alternative to the fascist Trump by pointing out that their version of deporting immigrants would make deportations run much smoother, without glitches, and in accordance with the current laws and regulations - which appear to be about to change.
The mere mention of the name 'Hitler' is supposed to make the fascist exclaim, 'Get thee hence, Satan!' However, he doesn't, and It's not at all difficult to understand why: He's a fascist! Why would he?!

It's a little like when she declares that "Anti-Semitism is the socialism of fools."
No, it isn't. It's got nothing to do with socialism. And calling anti-Semites fools is as unconvincing as calling conspiracy nuts stupid or dumb (or nuts). It doesn't make it clear why anti-Semitism is foolish.

Wynn has an example of somebody else, who also doesn't know how to handle fascists. It appears to be from a social-media post:
Losing my husband/best friend
He is the only one who can see the truth and all the rest of us are brainwashed, stupid, being controlled by the media (who are controlled by China).
There is that word stupid again, but this time it's from a fascist conspiracy nut targeting a democrat (I assume).
It would have been interesting to hear if or how the woman had tried to argue against her husband's conspiracy theories, but the post is about the loss.

Wynn has a hypothesis about what makes celebrities become conspiracy theorists. Her idea is that it is caused by incidents of public humiliation. Her examples are Naomi Klein, Candace Owens and David Icke. I am not sure that it is true. In the case of David Icke, he had obviously gone insane before he was humiliated in public. As Wynn's clip shows, people started laughing at him when he claimed that he was the son of God!

Her idea makes more sense in the case of Klein and Owens, but I am still not sure that it is correct. Judging by the (much fewer) cases I know of Danish celebrities who became conspiracy theorists, I get the impression that it has more to do with narcissistic opportunism: Celebrities tend to hunger for an audience, and if they feel let down by the audience they used to cater to, catering to another is more like a career choice, and in order to attract the attention of that other audience, it often requires being more outrageous than anybody else.
Anyway, Wynn mentions celebrity conspiracy nuts as an introduction to the more ordinary kind:
Of course, for everyday non-celebrity conspiracists, the source of that humiliation might be more subtle: It could be a divorce, losing a job, or just a feeling that your life didn't turn out the way you wanted it to. You miss being young and full of hope, and you're, like, 'Who took that from me?' (...) A lot of men, in particular, feel humiliated by modernity itself. Like in Fight Club, these middle-class men feel emasculated by their white-collar jobs. Cucked! And conspiracy investigation can be a way to reclaim heroic masculinity from the comfort of your desk chair. And it is a traditionally masculine activity, though recently that's changed. A lot of women get into conspiracism via alternative health and wellness, often after frustrating or humiliating experiences with mainstream medicine, which can still be quite misogynistic. A lot of women got into QAnon because of its MeToo-adjacent themes of exposing powerful sex criminals and the sort of heroic femininity of saving children.
I think Wynn is on to something here, and yet she misses it. And I think she misses it because of her own dualism, which is ironic because she already warned against that: See the video's table of contents!
The dualism she operates with is, the idea of sensible, 'normal', sane vs. the delusional thinking of conspiracy theorists. For this reason, she doesn't really delve into where exactly the conspiracy nuts come from before they went down the rabbit hole. It's like when Christians think of themselves as sensible, normal and sane, and describe other believers as infidels when, in reality, the Christianity, Islam and Judaism are very similar in most respects.

The most important aspect of becoming a conspiracy believer is what they used to believe before they went the conspiracy way. In the case of women, alternative health and wellness is not exactly free of delusions, neither is the ideal of heroic masculinity or femininity. Wynn makes the mistake of focussing on the disappointment, which is probably the trigger that makes people go down the conspiracy rabbit hole, but she tends to leave out the contents of the previous delusions, what people believed before they were disappointed, disillusioned - but not enough to let go of the delusions. The new delusions, the conspiracy ideas, are not the opposite of the ones they already had. They are the radicalization of those delusions, which makes the old delusions look almost sane in comparison.

I'll explain this in more detail when I have the time.
 
I had a little trouble parsing what you're saying, but If by "it" you mean "why so many people hate Hillary Clinton in such an intense way" I think there's more to it than just the online skeptic community, which is a pretty small community in the grand scheme of things.
People are fairly tribal about their political parties, and she has said a few things that didn't seem like a big deal to me at the time, but I later realized probably felt alienating to some people. I agree that definitely a segment of "the online skeptic community" went alt-right (or maybe they already were mostly there anyway and just needed a little nudge to go all the way) around the time of gamer gate. Anti-feminism and anti-"woke" (which used to be called "political correctness") was a big theme.
But then with Hillary it went beyond that into conspiracy theories about people she had snuffed and so on.

i thought you were talking about contrapoints when i quoted you so i wasn't reading closely enough, so i apologize for that.

but i think the point applies to the alt right hatred of contrapoints element of the skeptic movement and the alt right movement in general towards hillary, it's the same reason why they hate all of that stuff. there's a fanatical devotion to hate anything have to do with the left in any way from the alt right, it's the members of the alt right being manipulated by their handlers into making that a part of their identity and they use things like feminism and woke to fixate on. it was steve bannon who did this on a much smaller scale with gamergate, and then again on a much larger one through his involvement with the trump admin. the manipulation methods were the same, and so was the response, and thus their behavior, was the same.

but that's my thoughts on it
 

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