Axxman300
Philosopher
Split Thread Conspiracy theories around the Russian invasion of Ukraine
- Thread starter Clutch Cargo
- Start date
I Am The Scum
Philosopher
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Reminds me of the old joke: My grandfather downed twelve German bombers in World War 2. He was the worst mechanic in the Luftwaffe.
Safe-Keeper
My avatar is not a Drumpf hat
It has a long and proud (bless their hearts) tradition. The Germans tried to portray the invasion of Poland as a quick police action.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
You were ordered to use a euphemism for the purposes of propaganda.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
No he wasn't*. And no such propaganda campaign ever existed.
*Nor was any real soldier.
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
In the light of this post:
...I would like to know where "here" is, that "completely censors" Moscow media? If you served in Vietnam, then presumably you are American. Is Russian media censored in your part of the States? Or do you live outside America now, in some non-Western, anti-Russian country, like....erm...dunno. Where is "here", if it's a country?
Alternatively, if by "here", you mean this forum, this is the first I've heard of it. What leads you to conclude that Russian media is censored on this forum?
JimOfAllTrades
Graduate Poster
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He won't be able to answer, he doesn't speak Polish.
Andy_Ross
Penultimate Amazing
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He could be Australian.
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Funny, I served a short, unheroic hitch in the armies of Lyndon Johnson in 66-67, and all I heard about was "the Korean conflict." WW2 and Nam were wars right enough.
When Clutch gets out of the stockade, he'll have a chance to straighten us all up about it.
When Clutch gets out of the stockade, he'll have a chance to straighten us all up about it.
a cat that has somehow lost 2 of its paws and a couple teeth that mouse. I mean, I basically agree, Ukraine is the mouse to the tiger that was Russia, but we've found out that its a bit of a paper tiger haven't we. It's basically the equivalent of the US invading Canada losing more a few hundred thousand soldiers in 3 years. Shocking and heroic resistance from the Ukrainians.
ETA, Putin is absolutely like everyone else in thinking he'd would have been done with his special military operation in a few weeks at most.
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Axxman300
Philosopher
Or ROK
catsmate
No longer the 1
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Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
Is Russian media censored in Australia? I lived in Seoul for 2 years, and I'm pretty sure it isn't censored there.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
I can access Russia Today International.
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
OK, so there don't seem to be any countries where Russian media is censored.
Is it possible that claim was total bunk? Just maybe?
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
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I can remember as a kid watching MASH, they made ironic reference to the Korean war being a "police action" rather than a war.
If Putin hasn't "invaded Ukraine", how would you describe it?
"Reclaimed parts of Ukraine"?
Or maybe you believe Putin's army first attacked parts of Ukraine in 2022 without Putin's orders?
Clutch Cargo
Muse
Putin isn't interested in taking Ukraine. Hitler claimed he only wanted to "liberate" the ethnic Germans in Sudetenland but then he promptly took all of Czechoslovakia. Putin made the same claim about the ethnic Russians in Donbas and that is all he did until the Nazi Azov (backed by the Fascist political coup government) made it necessary for the Russians to temporality increase the zone of liberation. If you call it an ”invasion” you are free to do that and I am not bothered. But when the general spin calls it ”a full scale invasion” of the whole of Ukraine then that is what I call a bold faced lie.
Thank you for clarifying.
Clutch Cargo
Muse
Any time.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
The Azov Brigade were indeed neo-nazi paramilitaries. You do realise that they were wiped out in the first few months of the war?
Clutch Cargo
Muse
Yes.
No, I don't realize that and I doubt it. But link me up to find out.
Dispersed, not wiped out at all.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Azov Brigade - Wikipedia
Siege of Mariupol - Wikipedia
It's not too hard to find out what happened to them.
The survivors of the Siege of Mariupol surrendered to Russian troops and were captured.
After the siege ended, a couple of units of the SSO formed up called "Azov SSO" but they were incorporated into the Ukrainian Ground Forces in 2023. A few veterans have joined or formed new volunteer units, but the Azov Brigade that Putin used as an excuse to invade essentially no longer exists.
And again, the alleged US-backed "nazi coup" is direct propaganda via an article in a German newspaper written by Putin himself. It has no basis in fact.
Azov Brigade - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Siege of Mariupol - Wikipedia
It's not too hard to find out what happened to them.
The survivors of the Siege of Mariupol surrendered to Russian troops and were captured.
After the siege ended, a couple of units of the SSO formed up called "Azov SSO" but they were incorporated into the Ukrainian Ground Forces in 2023. A few veterans have joined or formed new volunteer units, but the Azov Brigade that Putin used as an excuse to invade essentially no longer exists.
And again, the alleged US-backed "nazi coup" is direct propaganda via an article in a German newspaper written by Putin himself. It has no basis in fact.
So we agree that they were dispersed.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Okay, let's say "all but" wiped out.
Maybe. It's a convenient narrative, and pretty hard to prove either way. They were an uncomfortable reality for Zelensky.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
And like I said, Putin's excuse for invading. But however you cut it, the Azov Brigade did not survive Mariupol. Are there survivors of the siege still alive? Yes, a few. But Putin's so-called "special military operation" was specifically in order to counter neo-nazi paramilitary groups in Donbas, of which there was, essentially, exactly one. What has Russia been doing for the last three years?
I'm not attempting to defend or justify Putin's motives. Azov were not the only openly Nazi brigade at all. They were just the most visible.
I have no dog in this fight mate. I think staunchly supporting either side is irrational.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
You think it's irrational to staunchly support a country that is invaded by its neighbour and fighting for its survival against a foreign aggressor?
Slava Ukraini!
A country that committed genocide against its own citizens for a decade? A country that was infiltrated and manipulated by US and NATO skulduggery? A country who celebrated it's Nazism?
Yes, I think it's irrational to unconditionally support them.
This is in no way an endorsement of Putin's invasion.
Are you aware of how the LGBT community are treated by the Ukrainian government?
Wokeism is a religion. Suspension of rational thinking appears to be a prerequisite. Gays for Palestine much?
Yes, I think it's irrational to unconditionally support them.
This is in no way an endorsement of Putin's invasion.
Are you aware of how the LGBT community are treated by the Ukrainian government?
Wokeism is a religion. Suspension of rational thinking appears to be a prerequisite. Gays for Palestine much?
It's "Strava"Slava Ukraini!
Clutch Cargo
Muse
Maybe.
OK.
OK.
OK.
How is your English? How are you using the term "an excuse"? It is clear to me that you are contradicting yourslf ..... your very own words.
Take it up with Victoria Nuland.
The Ukraine Mess That Nuland Made
Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences.
truthout.org
Clutch Cargo
Muse
That is - and has been - Putin's stance from the very start of his Special Military Operation. Personally, I think calling it a Special Military Operation is a side-step but Putin didn't concoct it. The US invented it and they got away with it. "Follow the leader"? The development of the war (or is that only a "conflict"?) supports Putin's goal/intentions. There is no reason or example of his performance so far that contradicts his word.
You need to supplement your MSM diet with something more realistic. If you do that you can begin to ask yourself many questions and find answers that will be based in logic and (hopefull) fact, and .......... you can come to the next debate with something more insightful than "Putin bad - Zoolinsky good".
.gif "What was that? :wwt")
Clutch Cargo
Muse
Yes, making the referendums of Donetsk and Luhansk a necessity.
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
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Trying to cope with a Russian inspired and driven insurgency is not a genocide. Calling it a genocide is just swallowing Russian propaganda whole.
Clutch Cargo
Muse
I can teach you a few lessons about both Sweden and Denmark but your post/contribution is much more balanced and non-biased than most of the crap I've seen in decades so I'll just take my hat off to you and say, "A very good effort from you."
plague311
Great minds think...
Jesus ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ Christ with this "Wokeism" nonsense.
Anyway, all of this would make a difference if Russia was any better, but they're not. You think ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ Russia wants to take over Ukraine to treat the LGBT community better? You think that's why Russia invaded the Ukraine? lol. "Russia's track record with the LGBT community is so great that we're invading Ukraine to make sure they get treated better!" and you've got the gull to talk to others about "rational thinking"? Come on, buddy.
The beginning of this is just basic Russia propaganda with the lame caveat that "I'm not endorsing".
"Putin didn't want to hit Ukraine. He's just doing it to make them better people."
