Dumb All Over
A Little Ugly on the Side
Connie Sonne Accuses Banachek of cheating her
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rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
If you want to know where I am coming from and why I am paranoid about the subject look at these links
DAVID KOENIG, Electronic Voice Phenomenon
Threads Tagged with david koenig
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=152&start=17
There is plenty more of his postings on that site. (Warning, woo is strong on that site) He behaved badly on jref forum and so was banned then went to other sites (more than one) and said things like the above. Yet he never made any claim of paranormal ability, beyond the fact that he could do stage magic and talk.
DAVID KOENIG, Electronic Voice Phenomenon
Threads Tagged with david koenig
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=152&start=17
There is plenty more of his postings on that site. (Warning, woo is strong on that site) He behaved badly on jref forum and so was banned then went to other sites (more than one) and said things like the above. Yet he never made any claim of paranormal ability, beyond the fact that he could do stage magic and talk.
Best part is that all I did on that show was sit outside in front of CCTV monitors. I don't even know what he's talking about with the EVP thing.
Sean84
Muse
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Dave "I'm a demonstrably retarded blowhard" Koenig is a demonstrably retarded blowhard. He never made any claims because he wanted to exploit the MDC for publicity. It has nothing whatsoever to do with this thread.
ETA: Does anyone know where that remarkable idiot is currently spouting off? I haven't heard about him in years.
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Can anyone else appreciate the irony in this statement?
I would have to agree with rjh01. As long as no rules are broken - bending them however hard does not count as broken, right? - let people say whatever they want. (That Koenig fella knew how to press my cider, oh did he ever.)
Think of the JREF as an elephant. Could a little pecker really hurt it? Of course not. Let them peck already. Peck, peck, peck, tweet, tweet, tweet, bark, bark, bark.
The process exposes their motive perfectly and documents it for others to see. That seems a long way to go for the E in education but they are doing it.
And here, Sean84, is the parallel between Koenig and Connie Sonne. Their motives may be different but the modus operandi is all too similar: Look at me, look at me, look at me, ...
Dumb All Over
A Little Ugly on the Side
rjh01 was arguing from a position of paranoia. In agreeing with his position, are you paranoid, too? Are you paranoid that Connie Sonne is more dangerous to the JREF as an ex-forum member than she is as a member? Has Koenig become more of a threat since his banning?
The E in education needs to be forcibly applied to Connie herself. She needs to be educated in the ways of politeness and proper etiquette. For she believes it is perfectly ok to enter someone's house, drink their coffee and eat their scones, call the host a cheater and threaten to sue him, and then demand more coffee and scones. A banning might educate Connie and others that you don't treat your host with such contempt without appropriate consequences.
People, there is nothing to fear from the likes of Connie Sonne and Koenig, whether they are members here or not.
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
This is the one part of your post I agree with. Since there is nothing to fear from
Connie Sonne let her remain a member. She is doing no damage.
Czarcasm
Groovy Groovy Guru
Wrong.
She serves as an example to others that you can get away with threatening to sue this board and/or JREF. Consistency in Moderation is a strength that shouldn't be ignored in cases like this.
Tricky
Briefly immortal
The consistency, in this case, is that every potential violation is examined in context. My personal (not as mod) feeling is that this is not a credible threat and does no damage to the JREF. Indeed, I think it enhances their image as an organization that is not afraid of the rantings of a silly person.
Sean84
Muse
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So far not yet.
Dumb All Over
A Little Ugly on the Side
Yesterday, Connie was banned from the forums for threatening legal action against the JREF. Bye bye, Connie.
The Central Scrutinizer
Penultimate Amazing
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Hopefully, someday she'll get the help she needs.
JoeTheJuggler
Penultimate Amazing
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Yep.. . and my understanding is that delay in the banning was just to check the legal ramifications since she was a MDC applicant.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
He hasn't been charged with anything, but he has been "named as a formal suspect" (in Portuguese, "arguido").
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...d-as-formal-suspect-by-portuguese-authorities
I wonder what Connie Sonne thinks of all this.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...d-as-formal-suspect-by-portuguese-authorities
I wonder what Connie Sonne thinks of all this.
Yeah was reading how it works, as was getting a bit conflicting depending on sources.
Personally think this arguido thing is a stupid concept. It seems to basically be be the police announcing their investigations and suspected people before actually having any decent evidence for a case.
You might as well just say. Hey we have nothing, but are looking at you and we ae letting everyone in the world know. You might what to cover your tracks more in the interim.
Purely a Cullennz guess thing. but it smells to me, given the dude is currently in jail for rape it is a prison boasting and leaked by the other dude thing. Probably wrong though
We haven't seen anything from or about her in years.
Connie Sonne should never have been exposed to the ridicule of the Million Dollar Challenge.
I said so at the time.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4365115#post4365115
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4365340#post4365340
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4365352#post4365352
And I tried to warn her against going:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4348223#post4348223
I was told to mind my own business by both Connie and people on the forum who were eagerly anticipating her failure.
The attitude seemed to be, 'If we can't get Sylvia Browne, we can at least have fun with somebody who is more in need of therapy than of a million dollars.'
Not one of JREF's proudest moments, in my opinion!
The reason why she was a retired police officer was not that she had found a more lucrative way of making money. And she had never made a name for herself as a psychic.
Again: She was never a European version of Sylvia Browne.
If JREF were still around, they would owe her an apology for exposing her to the ridicule.
I hope that she is better and no longer "thinks of all this."
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MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
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Hopefully, she doesn't. However, she did expose herself to the ridicule. As you mention against several warnings.
And hopefully she has stopped cheating gullible people. That may have been traumatic, but had she continued, she would, over time, have traumatized a lot of people, and taken their money for the privilege.
Hans
Most of my warnings were to the JREF, but they didn't heed them.
What was the point of testing somebody whose claims were due to mental illness?
Who were the gullible people she cheated? Whose money did she take?
She was a former police officer, retired after a knife attack, which rendered her mentally ill. She wasn't Sylvia Browne. She wasn't Marion Dampier-Jeans or any of the many other Danish psychics promoted by TV2 and commercial broadcasters and still out there making morey. She wasn't even Martin Hulbæk. Why do you think she never appeared as a psychic on TV, promoting her alleged business?
If you know anything about attempts to make money off of her delusions (other than the Million Dollar Challenge, which I am not even sure was mainly about the money in her case), feel free to tell us about them.
She was the one who was gullible. She believed that the voices in her head were real.
The point of the Million Dollar Challenge was never to prove that psychotics don't have paranormal powers. The point was to get professional psychics, people who had made a name for themselves in the media as psychics, to take the test. Connie wasn't one of them, not even in Denmark. There is a reason why this article is called Press briefing with poor Connie: Pressekonference med stakkes Connie (Skepticisme.dk)
But maybe that discussion should be moved to another thread, one of those from 2009. She was on the fringe of the Madeleine Mccann case and is never mentioned in that context nowadays - except for the ISF.
Hovedmistænkt udpeget efter 15 år: ’Madeleine McCann-sagen indeholder alle krimifiktionens ingredienser’ (DR.dk, April 22, 2022).
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
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Highlighted part: I don't remember details, but if she hadn't been tested (and, I presume failed) she quite probably might have made some kind of business from it. Or, at least given false hopes to some people even if she didn't personally profit from it.
It was not the purpose, or responsibility, of the JREF in the days of the million dollar challenge, to diagnose contestants and decide what drove them. It was the purpose to test their claims. If the lady in question was mentally ill (and as you may have noticed from the interactions at the time, that was certainly my impression), what she got was a dose of reality. She might use that as she was able, but any reasonable treatment or possible cure would certainly have to include exactly such a dose of reality.
I understand that you pity her, probably with good reason, but it would not have been a favor to her to indulge, or even ignore her illusions.
Hans
You know very well what the purpose of the challenge was: to debunk the real paranormal fraudsters who are all still out there. (Well, Sylvia Browne has died, obviously.) There are even a couple of Danish psychics called Sonne. I just googled clairvoyance+Sonne.
The purpose of the challenge wasn't to heal the mentally ill by providing them with a stage. That Connie "might have made some kind of business from it" is not at all 'quite probable'. Your saying so doesn't make it so.
Diagnosing the mentally ill also wasn't the purpose of the Million Dollar Challenge. However, refraining from giving one of them a stage would have been the ethical thing to do. Your idea that "any reasonable treatment or possible cure would certainly have to include exactly such a dose of reality only shows how little you know about psychiatric treatment. You don't give people suffering from delusions of grandeur a stage in order to prove to them that they aren't Jesus or Napoleon. (Consider how awfully wrong that experiment went in November, 2016!)
There is a big difference between indulging or ignoring her delusions and providing her with a stage to make a fool of her. You know the difference.
Connie should never have been given that stage. And giving it to her proved absolutely nothing. Or maybe you can tell us about all the believers in clairvoyance who were convinced by her example that there is no such thing. Can you?
Pretending that it was for her own good is pathetic.
The purpose of the challenge wasn't to heal the mentally ill by providing them with a stage. That Connie "might have made some kind of business from it" is not at all 'quite probable'. Your saying so doesn't make it so.
Diagnosing the mentally ill also wasn't the purpose of the Million Dollar Challenge. However, refraining from giving one of them a stage would have been the ethical thing to do. Your idea that "any reasonable treatment or possible cure would certainly have to include exactly such a dose of reality only shows how little you know about psychiatric treatment. You don't give people suffering from delusions of grandeur a stage in order to prove to them that they aren't Jesus or Napoleon. (Consider how awfully wrong that experiment went in November, 2016!)
There is a big difference between indulging or ignoring her delusions and providing her with a stage to make a fool of her. You know the difference.
Connie should never have been given that stage. And giving it to her proved absolutely nothing. Or maybe you can tell us about all the believers in clairvoyance who were convinced by her example that there is no such thing. Can you?
Pretending that it was for her own good is pathetic.
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Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
The fundamental problem with challenges like the MDC, whose aim was to expose the likes of Geller and Browne as frauds, is that such con artists won't touch it with a bargepole. Yes, you can attempt to use their refusal to take the challenge as evidence that they're frauds, but they're clever enough to convince the gullible people who believe in them that those running it are nefarious.
The only people who are actually going to apply are those who genuinely believe they have paranormal abilities, and a good percentage of them are going to be mentally ill. As long as they meet the entry requirements you have to test them; refusing on the grounds of their apparent mental health problems would be taken by both them and other believers in the paranormal as an attempt to weasel out of the challenge because you know it will cost you the million.
In the last years of the MDC an attempt was made to address this problem by adding requirements for academic references and/or press coverage. I'm not sure how successful that was in weeding them out - was Connie Sonne's application before or after it?
The only people who are actually going to apply are those who genuinely believe they have paranormal abilities, and a good percentage of them are going to be mentally ill. As long as they meet the entry requirements you have to test them; refusing on the grounds of their apparent mental health problems would be taken by both them and other believers in the paranormal as an attempt to weasel out of the challenge because you know it will cost you the million.
In the last years of the MDC an attempt was made to address this problem by adding requirements for academic references and/or press coverage. I'm not sure how successful that was in weeding them out - was Connie Sonne's application before or after it?
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
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