• Due to ongoing issues caused by Search, it has been temporarily disabled
  • Please excuse the mess, we're moving the furniture and restructuring the forum categories
  • You may need to edit your signatures.

    When we moved to Xenfora some of the signature options didn't come over. In the old software signatures were limited by a character limit, on Xenfora there are more options and there is a character number and number of lines limit. I've set maximum number of lines to 4 and unlimited characters.

[Closed]Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center

Status
Not open for further replies.

Galileo

Illuminator
Galileo
Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Messages
3,368
Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe

pp.7-31 (25)

Authors: Niels H. Harrit, Jeffrey Farrer, Steven E. Jones, Kevin R. Ryan, Frank M. Legge, Daniel Farnsworth, Gregg Roberts, James R. Gourley, Bradley R. Larsen

doi: 10.2174/1874412500902010007

Abstract

We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic.

Keywords: JScanning electron microscopy, X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy, Differential scanning calorimetry, DSC analysis, World Trade Center, WTC dust, 9/11, Iron-rich microspheres, Thermite, Super-thermite, Energetic nanocomposites, Nano-thermite
Affiliation: Department of Chemistry, University of Copenhagen, Copenhagen, DK-2100, Denmark.

http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM

MORE DETAILS:

"Formally published in a peer-reviewed Chemical Physics journal, today:"

http://www.911blogger.com/node/19761

The end is near for the archie debunkers.
 
Galileo said:
You fail. They published in a legitimate scientific journal. They found proof of explosives. You lose.
Click to expand...

If that's true, why aren't you taking this groundbreaking new evidence to the authorities?
 
1337m4n said:
If that's true, why aren't you taking this groundbreaking new evidence to the authorities?
Click to expand...

That is a stupid question. I am not going to call you stupid, but your question is stupid.

Which authority shall I bring it to, the JREF police?
 
Galileo said:
You fail. They published in a legitimate scientific journal. They found proof of explosives. You lose.
Click to expand...

They do not have a legitimate peer review process. Ryan Mackey uncovered this last year. You lose. Go do a search.

Besides, what you fail to understand is that peer review is merely the first step in validation. If you had had a proper education in scientific research, you'd understand this. Refereeing only guarantees that method was followed, not that accuracy of results is achieved. That is only accomplished when results of other independent studies lend weight to the conclusions of a given paper.

Learn, Galileo. You too often fire off posts without thought or understanding.
 
ElMondoHummus said:
They do not have a legitimate peer review process. Ryan Mackey uncovered this last year. You lose. Go do a search.

Besides, what you fail to understand is that peer review is merely the first step in validation. If you had had a proper education in scientific research, you'd understand this. Refereeing only guarantees that method was followed, not that accuracy of results is achieved. That is only accomplished when results of other independent studies lend weight to the conclusions of a given paper.

Learn, Galileo. You too often fire off posts without thought or understanding.
Click to expand...

You fail to understand that these scientists found thermite. You lose.
 
I think I am going to have to cry myself to sleep because of this Earth shattering absolute proof of an inside jobby job.
 
Found it.

R.Mackey said:
I received a reply from Mr. Alam to my reminder today, and it is not promising.

He decided to forward my complaints ... to the author of the paper.

I have informed him that, since the authors of dubious papers do not set the standards for journals, that his response is entirely inappropriate, and have reminded him that it is the editors who should be responding.

Thus far, only Mr. Alam has responded to anything, and it appears that he has no idea how real journals operate.

At this point, I am about 80 percent convinced that the Bentham Open Access Journals are merely a vanity publication. I do still have some doubt because there are a great many -- too many! -- professionals listed on their editorial board, and the few I've checked up on appear to be legitimate. I will be taking this discussion to them with or without Mr. Alam, and we will get to the bottom of this.
Click to expand...

R.Mackey said:
For what it's worth, I've had no further response from Dr. Jeng. So it stands where it was -- the publisher is operating without oversight, the publisher has no idea what he's doing, and the publisher has yet to provide the reviewers' comments (or even their names) to their own editor-in-chief.

I suppose I could turn up the heat and let their respective universities' steering committees know about this little tale of academic fraud, but I'm not sure we need to. We know what we wanted to know -- Dr. Jones got published because he found a disreputable journal, and his paper was never properly reviewed. Game, set, match, and he's still out a few hundred bucks.

If this happens again, though, the responsible parties have been duly reminded of their responsibility.
Click to expand...

This has been covered before. Jones et. al. publishing in vanity publications is nowhere near the equivalent of publishing in established, legitimate scientific journals. On the contrary, it's an admittance of failure to be taken seriously by the academic community. On top of that, Jones's research has to date been shoddy. This is a poor stab of legitimacy on Jones et. al.'s part, and yet another demonstration of Galileo's inability to comprehend the reality of how research knowledge is generated and validated.
 
Omigosh! I knew it! They finally found rust and traces of aluminum in structural steel. Please, dear lord, don't let them come to Pittsburgh. We've got piles and piles of conspiracy evidence.
 
Jesus H... I'm only at the abstract, and they're trying to legitimize their "thermite chips" thesis...

This is a loser, folks. I'll read it through, but it simply looks like this is just a writeup of some spectroscopic work done on those chips. How that proves deliberate destruction of the towers in the absence of effects found on the structural steel, I don't know, but I doubt they'll even try to make that argument in this paper.
 
ElMondoHummus said:
Found it.





This has been covered before. Jones et. al. publishing in vanity publications is nowhere near the equivalent of publishing in established, legitimate scientific journals. On the contrary, it's an admittance of failure to be taken seriously by the academic community. On top of that, Jones's research has to date been shoddy. This is a poor stab of legitimacy on Jones et. al.'s part, and yet another demonstration of Galileo's inability to comprehend the reality of how research knowledge is generated and validated.
Click to expand...

The scientists found thermite. Let's see you and your authorities debunk that. You are unable to think for yourself, and merely rely on what others tell you. That is the mentality at JREF. Your "conspriracy" forum is going down. We have proven that thermite was found.

Argue the evidence or shut up.
 
Galileo said:
You fail. They published in a legitimate scientific journal. They found proof of explosives. You lose.
Click to expand...


No, its a pay to play vanity journal. Its already been debunked. The only condition you must meet to publish in it is to send in your check. The owners of the journal cannot even provide a who-is of the peer reviewers. They are not even aware of the content they allow to be published. They just cash the checks. Its a boiler room operation out of India. The fact that they had to resort to publishing outside of recognized scientific journals in an attempt to hide their folly means epic fail. Sorry you lose.
 
Last edited:
Galileo said:
You fail. They published in a legitimate scientific journal. They found proof of explosives. You lose.
Click to expand...

Galileo said:
You fail to understand that these scientists found thermite. You lose.
Click to expand...

So which is it, genius? They found thermite, or they found an explosive? Those are two different things.

Cripes... all this time on the forum and you still don't realize that...
 
Galileo said:
The scientists found thermite. Let's see you and your authorities debunk that. You are unable to think for yourself, and merely rely on what others tell you. That is the mentality at JREF. Your "conspriracy" forum is going down. We have proven that thermite was found.

Argue the evidence or shut up.
Click to expand...

http://www.changetowin.org/connect/images/fail.jpg

Edited by prewitt81: 
Edited to remove hotlinked image.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A W Smith said:
No, its a pay to play vanity journal. Its already been debunked. The only condition you must meet to publish in it is to send in your check. The owners of the journal cannot even provide a who-is of the peer reviewers. They are not even aware of the content they allow to be published. They just cash the checks. Its a boiler room operation out of India. Sorry you lose.
Click to expand...

It was just approved and not debunked. That is why it was just published.

If you want to debunk it, go ahead and be a hero. Argue the evidence.
 
Galileo said:
The scientists found thermite. Let's see you and your authorities debunk that. You are unable to think for yourself, and merely rely on what others tell you. That is the mentality at JREF. Your "conspriracy" forum is going down. We have proven that thermite was found.

Argue the evidence or shut up.
Click to expand...

Finding Iron oxide and aluminum in a tower built from steel with an aluminum facade is not unexpected, Galileo. On top of that, there's nothing in this paper that's not been restated before in previous threads. This is a total recycle.

If you want evidence, reconcile the fact that there was no thermite severance of the steel columns. Also reconcile the fact that, if you continue to mistakenly think thermite is an "explosive", why there's no evidence of such explosions left i.e. broken windows for blocks around, barotrauma, etc. Regardless of what Jones and his misled gang find, the fact remains that there was no sign of thermite or explosive severance on the recovered steel, nor was there any other evidence of it's emplacement. This argument has been made over and over before; go do a search for it. It's the conspiracy peddling side that's yet to actually deal with the real evidence.
 
Galileo said:
It was just approved and not debunked. That is why it was just published.

If you want to debunk it, go ahead and be a hero. Argue the evidence.
Click to expand...


Where have you been? Its been debunked months ago. Its paint. Also where the chain of custody? Did scientists collect and map collection points and protect the samples from contamination or did some lady swipe some from her lower Manhattan condo windowsill on a swiffer pad?
 
Sunstealer, if you happen to read this thread, perhaps you can speak towards the spectroscopy Jones embedded in that report (obtainable here: http://www.bentham.org/open/tocpj/openaccess2.htm). To me, it looks like a rehash of his "microspheres" work, but this is supposedly on different substances. I simply don't have the spectroscopic knowledge to see whether it's a rehash or something new.

Regardless, finding iron oxide and aluminum from the Twin Towers is like finding water in the ocean i.e. fully expected. So I'm not about to cede an iota of legitimacy to their allegations of incendiaries use; it's a long step from finding those two substances and saying that an incendiary was used to topple the towers. In spite of that, it still might be instructive for lurkers and others to know what an experienced hand at reading X-EDS results has to say about his work.
 
A W Smith said:
No, its a pay to play vanity journal. Its already been debunked. The only condition you must meet to publish in it is to send in your check. The owners of the journal cannot even provide a who-is of the peer reviewers. They are not even aware of the content they allow to be published. They just cash the checks. Its a boiler room operation out of India. The fact that they had to resort to publishing outside of recognized scientific journals in an attempt to hide their folly means epic fail. Sorry you lose.
Click to expand...

Wrong!

This was not published in Vanity Fair. This was published in a peer reviewed scientific journal.

I feel your vain.
 
ElMondoHummus said:
Finding Iron oxide and aluminum in a tower built from steel with an aluminum facade is not unexpected, Galileo. On top of that, there's nothing in this paper that's not been restated before in previous threads. This is a total recycle.

If you want evidence, reconcile the fact that there was no thermite severance of the steel columns. Also reconcile the fact that, if you continue to mistakenly think thermite is an "explosive", why there's no evidence of such explosions left i.e. broken windows for blocks around, barotrauma, etc. Regardless of what Jones and his misled gang find, the fact remains that there was no sign of thermite or explosive severance on the recovered steel, nor was there any other evidence of it's emplacement. This argument has been made over and over before; go do a search for it. It's the conspiracy peddling side that's yet to actually deal with the real evidence.
Click to expand...

Thermite was already discovered before, I agree with that.
 
Galileo said:
It has been argued, by scientists and referees, and they found thermite.
Click to expand...

Actually, no, they did not. They found Iron oxide and Aluminum. As already noted, all elements were present in large quantities in the WTC buildings.
 
A W Smith said:
Where have you been? Its been debunked months ago. Its paint. Also where the chain of custody? Did scientists collect and map collection points and protect the samples from contamination or did some lady swipe some from her lower Manhattan condo windowsill on a swiffer pad?
Click to expand...

Chain of custody can be tested. Just compare these results to other independent samples preserved by authorities from the crime scene.
 
Doctor Evil said:
Actually, no, they did not. They found Iron oxide and Aluminum. As already noted, all elements were present in large quantities in the WTC buildings.
Click to expand...

It says in the report thay found unreacted thermite. You are wrong.
 
Mods:

Please move this to the mental pygmies section.

The people here have no interest in rational or scientific discussion.

I am very disappointed in the quality of the James Randi forum.
 
Galileo said:
No, you are the liar and you did not study the forensic evidence.
Click to expand...

What evidence? Some rust and aluminum? OH MY GOD!!!!! RUST AND ALUMINUM WAS FOUND AT THE SITE THEREFORE THERMITE DESTROYED THE WORLD TRADE CENTER OMG!!1111!!!111ELEVENTY11111!!111!1!!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom