Brilliant Light Power Going To Market - Free Energy Generator

[bruto]

So according to this, they have a cell that works, and we know they have a video camera that works, but instead of showing the cell working they show blurry pictures of melting metal. If they can't get a working cell "ready for prime time" in 25 years maybe they're just incompetent.

 

[ferd burfle]

Mills has had cells since the 1990s that have been producing excess power. They just weren't ready for prime time.

Oh, horse hockey! A public demo of any such thing, if genuine, would bring eternal scientific fame and incredible riches even if it wasn't yet commercially viable. Only a fool would believe excuses for not unveiling it.

 

[Aepervius]

An anecdote: One 3rd year pure math course was a research project - pick a topic of mathematical interest and write a paper on it. My paper was on the Dirac equation. It was interesting how just deriving a relativistic counterpart to the Schrödinger equation introduced spin.

Interesting. In my university they did the same, and on the 5th year (yes it was at the epoch where there was no master , Baccalaureat -> DEUG B 2years -> License Physic 1 year-> Maitrise Physic 1 year -> DEA 1 year - pre doc). We had 1 paper out of the 3 which was to be on a pure math subject.

In my case it was chaos theory and chemical equations, mostly what can be learned and how to find attractors.
/off topic

 

[Red Baron Farms]

No, quite visible to those with eyes to see. Try this on for size:

http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GernertNnascenthyd.pdf

a blank page?

 

[Aepervius]

a blank page?

You might have script turned off, it links to a pdf.

 

[Darat]

AFAIK, Mills still has the CIHT prototype cell(s) - that was producing multiple times electrical output than electrical input power some years ago - on the premises. At least, it is still mentioned at the website. He may still have plans for it for certain applications. However it's power density was relatively low, and if I recall it suffered from oxidative issues.

Whose talking about prototypes? I'm talking about the commercial product that was released based on Mills words... Are you saying he was lying when he said we'd see commercial models within 18 months, the last but 2 times he said it?

 

[Darat]

That's interesting. Makes me want to invest in this company, HydroCatalysis Power Corporation.

As do I, but I am struggling to find information about this company, can't find a stock market listing in any of the major stock markets - anyone help me out?

 

[Darat]

Oh, horse hockey! A public demo of any such thing, if genuine, would bring eternal scientific fame and incredible riches even if it wasn't yet commercially viable. Only a fool would believe excuses for not unveiling it.

And the idea that the "power density" is too low for it to be commercially viable is obviously a load of blarney, there are many many area where a low maintenance, pretty much zero input costs, low "power density" generator would be snatched up. ETA: This is again a typical excuse from the woo handbook, it is akin to Benz saying in 1886 "I've a working engine but until I can produce a vehicle that includes computer controlled traction it will never be commercially viable so I'm going to carry on development and never put the engine into a vehicle".

 

[Aepervius]

As do I, but I am struggling to find information about this company, can't find a stock market listing in any of the major stock markets - anyone help me out?

Funnily enough it was the original name of mills's corp (nearly : HydroCatalysis Inc). The only data I can find is some firm in Pennsylvania , which issued patents on a toy vehicule in 1982 ? (http://www.patentbuddy.com/Company/Profile/HYDROCATALYSIS-POWER-CORPORATION-A-CORP.-OF-DE/421709 it may not be the same as https://www.plainsite.org/profiles/hydrocatalysis-power-corporation/).

But the lack of information from the usual business registry makes me think it might not even exists at all (or at least not anymore).

ETA: yep : it was the old name of mills corp before black light pwoer and other renaming. Here is the patent this corp hold : http://www.ipaustralia.com.au/applicant/hydrocatalysis-power-corporation/patents/AU1994071356/ you can see the author and here the firm http://www.ipaustralia.com.au/applicant/hydrocatalysis-power-corporation/patents/. So it is simply mills' firm.

 

[ViewsofMars]

William R. Good has been studying hydrogen emission by catalytic thermal electronic relaxation. He is currently research director at HydroCatalysis Power Corporation. It seems to me that it has something to do with dihydrino molecule identification.

 

[Red Baron Farms]

Electric Water Heater Market size was USD 17.5 billion in 2015
Underfloor Heating Market worth 7.90 Billion USD by 2020
The global space heater market is so huge it costs 1,000 dollars to download a market report! So I wasn't even able to figure out how huge that market was. That's not even getting into central heating.

And your PDF say's it works, but he couldn't even get a licensing deal with one of the major players?

Hell that market doesn't even need to produce energy! Just produce heat enough to increase efficiency over other standard heating elements!

Sorry. You may be convinced Mark, but everyone else is laughing as you stand there naked.

 

[halleyscomet]

Hey, perhaps Thermacore would be willing to sell their patent of Mill's potassium carbonate cell. You could build it and see what happens for yourself.



http://www.google.com/patents/US5273635

That patent is for a heater that uses electrolysis. I didn't see any mention of Hydrinos in the description.

Besides, a device doesn't need to work to be patented.

It's kind of sad how desperate you've become in your efforts to give Mills a shred of credibility after his nearly 30 years of consistent failure.

 

[halleyscomet]

Electric Water Heater Market size was USD 17.5 billion in 2015
Underfloor Heating Market worth 7.90 Billion USD by 2020
The global space heater market is so huge it costs 1,000 dollars to download a market report! So I wasn't even able to figure out how huge that market was. That's not even getting into central heating.

And your PDF say's it works, but he couldn't even get a licensing deal with one of the major players?

Hell that market doesn't even need to produce energy! Just produce heat enough to increase efficiency over other standard heating elements!

Sorry. You may be convinced Mark, but everyone else is laughing as you stand there naked.

So far as I know. The ONLY thing Mills and company have ever successfully released to the public are excuses, and not very good ones at that.

 

[markie]

Ladies and gentlemen, the point is, the prototype was Thermacore's. They have the patent. Thermacore has brought a lot of products to market. Despite that, and despite several years of improvement and proven excess energy generation, it still wasn't enough, and it wasn't economically feasible to bring it to market.

 

[markie]

That patent is for a heater that uses electrolysis. I didn't see any mention of Hydrinos in the description.

Besides, a device doesn't need to work to be patented.

It's kind of sad how desperate you've become in your efforts to give Mills a shred of credibility after his nearly 30 years of consistent failure.

It doesn't mention controversial physics in the patent because they wanted the patent granted.

It's in the internal Thermacore document that one sees that there is anomalous, excess energy generated, with claimed and somewhat substantiated unconventional chemistry going on.

 

[Darat]

Ladies and gentlemen, the point is, the prototype was Thermacore's. They have the patent. Thermacore has brought a lot of products to market. Despite that, and despite several years of improvement and proven excess energy generation, it still wasn't enough, and it wasn't economically feasible to bring it to market.

True, if you define economically feasible to mean "doesn't work"!

 

[halleyscomet]

Ladies and gentlemen, the point is, the prototype was Thermacore's. They have the patent. Thermacore has brought a lot of products to market. Despite that, and despite several years of improvement and proven excess energy generation, it still wasn't enough, and it wasn't economically feasible to bring it to market.

So what?

ONE patent from ONE company didn't pan out and that somehow excuses the monumental incompetence of Mills spending close to 30 years and tens of MILLIONS of investor dollars to produce one failure after another, all while REFUSING to do the work needed to actually PROVE his theories to the larger scientific community?

If anything, your example highlights just HOW grotesquely incompetent Mills and his team are. Thermacore as been in business since the 1970's. When a technology fails to pan out they move on to something else. They haven't spent close to 30 years banging their heads against a failed idea, taking increasingly less efficient and more ridiculous approaches to it over time.

It doesn't mention controversial physics in the patent because they wanted the patent granted.

It's in the internal Thermacore document that one sees that there is anomalous, excess energy generated, with claimed and somewhat substantiated unconventional chemistry going on.

Citation needed. I need more than the assurance of someone who is backing a serial failure.

 

[Horatius]

That patent is for a heater that uses electrolysis. I didn't see any mention of Hydrinos in the description.

That one is a pretty good example of how people get patents on these sorts of ******** devices. It's described and claimed in such a vague manner that it's quite difficult to even determine what exactly it is that they think is happening.

Here's claim 1, which defines the legal scope of their patent protection:

1. A heat generating electrolyte cell comprising:
a tank constructed of corrosion resistant material, the tank being constructed to be able to contain a liquid electrolyte and including a sealed access cover which prevents the escape of gases from the tank;
at least one anode electrode within the tank and located so that it contacts electrolyte when contained within the tank;
an electrical connection attached to each anode electrode which supplies each anode electrode with a positive voltage;
at least one cathode electrode within the tank and located so that it contacts electrolyte when contained within the tank;
an electrical connection attached to each cathode electrode which supplies each cathode electrode with a negative voltage;
a heat transfer means located so that it is in thermal contact with liquid electrolyte when contained within the tank and functioning to transfer heat generated within the electrolytic cell to a location outside the cell; and
heat insulation covering the outside surfaces of the tank.

From that, can anyone determine where the "heat generated within the electrolytic cell" actually comes from?


Also, note how the patent is classified http://www.google.com/patents/US5273635#classifications

The general class is

CLASS 204, CHEMISTRY: ELECTRICAL AND WAVE ENERGY,

with the subclass

241 With heater or cooler:
This subclass is indented under subclass 232. Apparatus in which the additional electrolyte treatment means includes a heater or cooler.
(1) Note. Search also this class, subclasses 236 and 239.
(2) Note. For electrolytic cells having heating or cooling means, see this class, subclasses 262 and 274.

So they expect certain types of electrolytic cells to have heating elements built into them (as temperature is a known factor in chemical reactions), and as such, it might not have appeared to the examiner that they were claiming any kind of new energy source. This kind of thing is incredibly common among these types of patent applications.

The other classes are even less relevant.

 

[Horatius]

It doesn't mention controversial physics in the patent because they wanted the patent granted.

It's in the internal Thermacore document that one sees that there is anomalous, excess energy generated, with claimed and somewhat substantiated unconventional chemistry going on.

So, you admit that Thermacore deliberately violated the required standards* for a valid patent application, in hopes of being granted a patent that they would have known was non-functional on the face of it? And we're supposed to trust those lying bastards?



*Essentially every patent statute in the world requires an "enabling disclosure" that would permit anyone of ordinary skill in the art to practice the claimed invention without recourse to undue experimentation, using only the information presented in the patent document itself. Failing to even mention that they're using a allegedly new source of energy, that violates almost all currently known laws of physics and chemistry would almost certainly be considered a violation of this principle. And that's true even if they really do have new physics to back them up.

 

[halleyscomet]

So, you admit that Thermacore deliberately violated the required standards* for a valid patent application, in hopes of being granted a patent that they would have known was non-functional on the face of it? And we're supposed to trust those lying bastards?



*Essentially every patent statute in the world requires an "enabling disclosure" that would permit anyone of ordinary skill in the art to practice the claimed invention without recourse to undue experimentation, using only the information presented in the patent document itself. Failing to even mention that they're using a allegedly new source of energy, that violates almost all currently known laws of physics and chemistry would almost certainly be considered a violation of this principle. And that's true even if they really do have new physics to back them up.

The more I learn about Mills and his associates the skeevier they all sound.

 

[Horatius]

The more I learn about Mills and his associates the skeevier they all sound.

Yep. As I mentioned earlier, I've studied the patent applications of many of these types of devices, and found several common techniques needed to intentionally get a patent that the applicant knows is likely to be invalid, by exploiting weaknesses in the patent system. We see several of these techniques in use in this example.

1) Write it so as to be mis-classified. The hope is to get an examiner who may not be familiar with the typical free-energy scams

2) Over-describe and under-claim. It is the claims of the patent that are under the most scrutiny because they define the legal monopoly, so they only mention the questionable bits in the description, restricting the claims to only that which can plausibly be defended.

3) As much as possible, avoid any keywords that might indicate what the applicant thinks is "really" going on. So, no mention of hydrinos, no mention of cold fusion, no mention of anomalous energy production*.

One of these things might have happened by accident, but three in a row? Deliberate deception.



*If you look at the text of the whole patent, here's what they say is going on in the cell:

The electrolytic cell of the preferred embodiment has a nickel cathode, an anode constructed of platinum coated titanium, and an electrolyte of potassium carbonate. Recent studies indicate that this combination of materials produces heat within the cell with extremely high efficiency, so that all the electrical power input into the cell is converted to usable heat. (column 1, lines 45-51)

Out of the entire patent, that's the only part that even alludes to the physics of what is supposed to be happening, and even there, they make it look like it's merely converting electricity into heat. There's not even a suggestion that there might be more heat output than electrical input.

 

[Aepervius]

The more I learn about Mills and his associates the skeevier they all sound.

Every time I looked at BLP/Steorn/Denis klein and others, I found nothing of redeeming value, on the contrary, they present nearly all the hallmark of scams. People like Markie , Michaelsuede come and go, but in the very end nothing , absolutely nothing comes from the aforementioned outfits.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Yep. As I mentioned earlier, I've studied the patent applications of many of these types of devices, and found several common techniques needed to intentionally get a patent that the applicant knows is likely to be invalid, by exploiting weaknesses in the patent system. We see several of these techniques in use in this example.

1) Write it so as to be mis-classified. The hope is to get an examiner who may not be familiar with the typical free-energy scams

2) Over-describe and under-claim. It is the claims of the patent that are under the most scrutiny because they define the legal monopoly, so they only mention the questionable bits in the description, restricting the claims to only that which can plausibly be defended.

3) As much as possible, avoid any keywords that might indicate what the applicant thinks is "really" going on. So, no mention of hydrinos, no mention of cold fusion, no mention of anomalous energy production*.

One of these things might have happened by accident, but three in a row? Deliberate deception.



*If you look at the text of the whole patent, here's what they say is going on in the cell:


Quote:
The electrolytic cell of the preferred embodiment has a nickel cathode, an anode constructed of platinum coated titanium, and an electrolyte of potassium carbonate. Recent studies indicate that this combination of materials produces heat within the cell with extremely high efficiency, so that all the electrical power input into the cell is converted to usable heat. (column 1, lines 45-51)

Out of the entire patent, that's the only part that even alludes to the physics of what is supposed to be happening, and even there, they make it look like it's merely converting electricity into heat. There's not even a suggestion that there might be more heat output than electrical input.

Hmmm, letting chemistry happen here. If you add a current the potassium carbonate will act as a conductor allowing the current to run.
Neither potassium nor carbonate are good in redox reactions, so the reactant will be water producing hydrogen gas and oxygen gas.
The container is 'sealed to prevent gasses from escaping' meaning pressure will quickly build.
An alternative name for this reactor would be a grenade or bomb depending on the size and strength of the container. I know I wouldn't want to be near it once it starts running.

 

[halleyscomet]

Hmmm, letting chemistry happen here. If you add a current the potassium carbonate will act as a conductor allowing the current to run.
Neither potassium nor carbonate are good in redox reactions, so the reactant will be water producing hydrogen gas and oxygen gas.
The container is 'sealed to prevent gasses from escaping' meaning pressure will quickly build.
An alternative name for this reactor would be a grenade or bomb depending on the size and strength of the container. I know I wouldn't want to be near it once it starts running.

No wonder the poor rubes who bought the patent never made a commercial device out of it! There are far more efficient explosives out there.

 

[Horatius]

Hmmm, letting chemistry happen here. If you add a current the potassium carbonate will act as a conductor allowing the current to run.
Neither potassium nor carbonate are good in redox reactions, so the reactant will be water producing hydrogen gas and oxygen gas.
The container is 'sealed to prevent gasses from escaping' meaning pressure will quickly build.
An alternative name for this reactor would be a grenade or bomb depending on the size and strength of the container. I know I wouldn't want to be near it once it starts running.

Well, they do have that covered:

The electrolytic cell also includes a conventional hydrogen recombiner to prevent hydrogen gas build up, and since this hydrogen combiner also generates some heat, the water it produces is drained back into the electrolyte to conserve that heat within the cell. (Column 2 lines 22-26)

Of course, to those of us who've followed free energy scams before, this sounds more like the typical water-to-hydrogen-to-water perpetual motion cycle than anything actually useful. But, again, it's just vague enough for them to weasel out of that if called on it.

 

[jrhowell]

No, quite visible to those with eyes to see. Try this on for size:

http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GernertNnascenthyd.pdf

Abstract: "Anomalous...25 watts of heat...predicted by the theory of Mills".

Watts of heat?

Since Mills created his "theory" to explain this sort of anomalous result it is not surprising that there is some consistency there.

Apparently the reaction doesn't continue indefinitely so something must be consumed that isn't being accounted for.

Given a small anomaly, the next step should be to refine the experiment to determine the true cause of it, not move on to commercial generator production.

 

[halleyscomet]

Abstract: "Anomalous...25 watts of heat...predicted by the theory of Mills".

Watts of heat?

Since Mills created his "theory" to explain this sort of anomalous result it is not surprising that there is some consistency there.

Apparently the reaction doesn't continue indefinitely so something must be consumed that isn't being accounted for.

Given a small anomaly, the next step should be to refine the experiment to determine the true cause of it, not move on to commercial generator production.

Well, in defense of Mills, they HAVEN'T successfully moved on to commercial generator production.

 

[JeanTate]

Thanks for sharing. You would know then that the Schrodinger equation have a counterpart that is relativistic without spin ; also have spin without being relativistic. Math can do wonders can't it. And sure, the Dirac equation seemed to get both right, even entailing the prediction of the position, but at what expense? The Dirac Sea, where the 'vacuum' has to have essentially infinite charge density and energy density. As I say, skepticism should run both ways.

For some reason that I cannot explain the words "stop", "hole", and "dig" popped into my head as I read this.

 

[JeanTate]

Mills has had cells since the 1990s that have been producing excess power. They just weren't ready for prime time.

Maybe there's something wrong with my brain ... again the words stop, hole digging ...

 

[LTC8K6]

It's been 30 years since "working", and nothing in the stores yet?

 

[JeanTate]

No, quite visible to those with eyes to see. Try this on for size:

http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GernertNnascenthyd.pdf

Weird.

I was sure that markie was/is a Mills booster. Yet, over the past week or so, a most unusual thought has been popping into my head ... what's happening is a somewhat uncommon form of whistleblowing ... and rather than holes being dug, it's the nakedness of the Emperor that's being revealed, in 3D, technicolor, and slowmo...

Has this weird thought happened to anyone else?

 

[JeanTate]

The more I learn about Mills and his associates the skeevier they all sound.

And for this, um, sharper focus, we should give thanks to several ISF members, LS, Horatius, Aevpervius, ...* and markie!

* yes, there are many more

 

[Myriad]

Pretty much all electrical devices are extremely close to 100% efficient at converting electrical energy into heat. Electric fans, electric clocks, blenders, air conditioners, computers, even short circuits. (The most common exceptions would be power conditioning devices (voltage converters, transformers, rectifiers, etc.), battery chargers, pumps and motors when used to lift things, and devices that transmit or radiate electromagnetic energy away, such as lights aimed at the sky.)

Whether the heat thus generated is "usable" or not depends on what you'd want to use it for.

 

[Myriad]

So according to this, they have a cell that works, and we know they have a video camera that works, but instead of showing the cell working they show blurry pictures of melting metal. If they can't get a working cell "ready for prime time" in 25 years maybe they're just incompetent.

By "prime time" markie seems to mean turnkey commercial application, but it could also mean sending one to a major University physics department to verify that its novel physical processes generating excess energy are indeed taking place. Such verification would result in a revolution in chemistry and physics, with Einstein-level fame, Nobel Prizes, genius grants and massive subsidies for the discoverers.

Why was the supposedly working cell, supposedly producing excess energy decades ago, never ready for that prime time?

 

[Horatius]

The electrolytic cell of the preferred embodiment has a nickel cathode, an anode constructed of platinum coated titanium, and an electrolyte of potassium carbonate. Recent studies indicate that this combination of materials produces heat within the cell with extremely high efficiency, so that all the electrical power input into the cell is converted to usable heat. (column 1, lines 45-51)

Following up on this, I just noticed another technique in use: Make the examiner do extra work.

They mention "recent studies", but nowhere in the patent do they mention what these studies are, who conducted them, or where they might be found. Nothing. Thus, if the examiner wants to find out what what these studies are, they would have to track them down by themselves. And in looking at the cited prior art on the cover page of the patent, it would appear that the examiner didn't find them.

Of course, the examiner has a job to do, and only so much time to do it. Absent some other reason to suspect a scam, they might forgo such a search and just assume the applicant is being honest, that being a fundamental assumption by the Patent Office. I'm sure we can all see the flaw in that.

 

[markie]

Every time I looked at BLP/Steorn/Denis klein and others, I found nothing of redeeming value, on the contrary, they present nearly all the hallmark of scams. People like Markie , Michaelsuede come and go, but in the very end nothing , absolutely nothing comes from the aforementioned outfits.

Every time I looked at BLP/Steorn/Denis klein and others, I found nothing of redeeming value, on the contrary, they present nearly all the hallmark of scams. People like Markie , Michaelsuede come and go, but in the very end nothing , absolutely nothing comes from the aforementioned outfits.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes" Obi Wan Kenobi

"So certain are you. Always with you what cannot be done." Yoda

 

[Dancing David]

Ladies and gentlemen, the point is, the prototype was Thermacore's. They have the patent. Thermacore has brought a lot of products to market. Despite that, and despite several years of improvement and proven excess energy generation, it still wasn't enough, and it wasn't economically feasible to bring it to market.

No dice eh, some excess energy there...

 

[halleyscomet]

By "prime time" markie seems to mean turnkey commercial application, but it could also mean sending one to a major University physics department to verify that its novel physical processes generating excess energy are indeed taking place. Such verification would result in a revolution in chemistry and physics, with Einstein-level fame, Nobel Prizes, genius grants and massive subsidies for the discoverers.

Why was the supposedly working cell, supposedly producing excess energy decades ago, never ready for that prime time?

I see two possible explanations:

1. Hydrinos are fictional.

2. Mills is an incompetent oaf whose lunch will be eaten by the first person willing to go out and pursue the proof on their own.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes" Obi Wan Kenobi

"So certain are you. Always with you what cannot be done." Yoda

Seriously?

You're reduced to defending Mills with Star Wars quotes?

 

[Red Baron Farms]

Weird.

I was sure that markie was/is a Mills booster. Yet, over the past week or so, a most unusual thought has been popping into my head ... what's happening is a somewhat uncommon form of whistleblowing ... and rather than holes being dug, it's the nakedness of the Emperor that's being revealed, in 3D, technicolor, and slowmo...

Has this weird thought happened to anyone else?

Many many years ago I used to sell investments in wildcatting oil wells.

There are 2 types of companies that do this:
1) By far the most common business model is the wildcatter that never actually hits any oil wells. They buy leases, drill the well once funded, then have a whole dialogue with the investors about how the next lease might be the big payoff. They actually make their money not by selling oil, but by selling the dream. The technical business being: (PURCHASE OF OIL AND GAS LEASE POSITIONS, DRILLING, SELLING SECURITIES IN THE FORM OF LIMITED PARTNERSHIPS)
2) The company I worked for had basically the same exact business model and sales pitch, except once in awhile they actually did hit a well and did pump and sell oil. (out of business now)

The ironic thing about how the owner of the company I worked for actually got into the business was they started as an investor(mark) in the first type above. When that company actually accidently hit a big oil well (2000 barrels a day gusher) they had absolutely no idea how to actually sell the oil. They didn't even know how to cap the well! They had never actually even hit oil before! So the investors sued the company and took over control of the well and all their drilling equipment. Then they hired some real oil men to turn it into a producing well. Then the owner of the company I worked for started their own company. (type 2 above)

There are a whole lot of parallels between Mills and the scam artists that wildcat for oil. Even assuming this so called success (doubtful) Markie talks about that only produces extra heat were true, the fact that it hasn't ever reached market shows that Mills has no clue how to actually produce a product and generate income from a product. All the business plan includes is selling shares to investors. Even if by accident Mills ever got anything usable from all his experiments, nothing would come of it. It's not in his business plan to actually make something! He is selling the dream! That's it. And the "working prototypes" from the first version of Mill's work is the evidence of that.

 

[Hans]

Many many years ago I used to sell investments in wildcatting oil wells.

There are 2 types of companies that do this:
1) By far the most common business model is the wildcatter that never actually hits any oil wells. They buy leases, drill the well once funded, then have a whole dialogue with the investors about how the next lease might be the big payoff. They actually make their money not by selling oil, but by selling the dream.
2) The company I worked for has basically the same exact business model and sales pitch, except once in a while they actually do hit a well and do pump oil.

The ironic thing about how the owner of the company I worked for actually got into the business was they started as an investor in the first type above. When that company actually accidently hit a big oil well (2000 barrels a day gusher) they had absolutely no idea how to actually sell the oil. They didn't even know how to cap the well! They had never actually even hit oil before! So the investors sued the company and took over control of the well and all their drilling equipment. Then they hired some real oil men to turn it into a producing well. Then the owner of the company I worked for started their own company. (type 2 above)

There are a whole lot of parallels between Mills and the scam artists that wildcat for oil. Even assuming this so called success (doubtful) Markie talks about that only produces extra heat were true, the fact that it hasn't ever reached market shows that Mills has no clue how to actually produce a product and generate income from a product. All the business plan includes is selling shares to investors. Even if by accident Mills ever got anything usable from all his experiments, nothing would come of it. It's not in his business plan to actually make something! He is selling the dream! That's it.

Good points; I can see that markie is supporting a type 1 situations. If Mills really could produce a product all of our nay saying would be immediately silenced if a product was produced. There would be no need for 'markie' to be trying to cover for him, however if the intent is only to suck in more investors then markie is necessary as said product will never show up but the pretense and 'show' must be kept up.