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[Merged] Bitcoin - Part 3

that’s not true. the transactions can be reversed or the payment stopped. particularly if it was sent by mistake.
 
psionl0 said:
Why are you constantly arguing in circles? How many times do I have to tell you that it depends on how the legal system deals with crypto compared with other assets/property?

Where property could be recovered from the scammer, the legal system would generally order its return. If the scammer fails to comply with such an order, the legal system would generally have remedies for that situation depending on whether the property could be forcibly removed from the scammer or not.
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I feel like I'm arguing in circles because my point isn't ever being addressed. What is there for when it's easy to prevent the property being forcibly removed from the scammer, as is the case with crypto?
 
gnome said:
I feel like I'm arguing in circles because my point isn't ever being addressed. What is there for when it's easy to prevent the property being forcibly removed from the scammer, as is the case with crypto?
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Well if that was an attempt to clarify a question, I failed miserably at understanding it.
 
Well if that was an attempt to clarify a question, I failed miserably at understanding it
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Because it is hard to compel people to give up their ill gotten gains and there is nothing physical some armed men can forcibly take away.

I get scammed on my credit card I call my bank and tell them that and they reverse the transaction, I am not dependant of forcing the scammer to reverse the transaction.
 
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ponderingturtle said:
Because it is hard to compel people to give up their ill gotten gains and there is nothing physical some armed men can forcibly take away.

I get scammed on my credit card I call my bank and tell them that and they reverse the transaction, I am not dependant of forcing the scammer to reverse the transaction.
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Thank you, yes, that is what I meant.
 
gnome said:
I feel like I'm arguing in circles because my point isn't ever being addressed. What is there for when it's easy to prevent the property being forcibly removed from the scammer, as is the case with crypto?
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Why read the answer to a question then ask the very same question again?

ponderingturtle said:
I get scammed on my credit card I call my bank and tell them that and they reverse the transaction, I am not dependant of forcing the scammer to reverse the transaction.
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That is not necessarily guaranteed otherwise phishing scams would not be at an all time high. Where reversibility is a possiblility, GOTO 3759.
 
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psionl0 said:
Why read the answer to a question then ask the very same question again?
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Because I think the answer didn't resolve my question.

That is not necessarily guaranteed otherwise phishing scams would not be at an all time high. Where reversibility is a possiblility, GOTO 3759.
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My bank can refund me a fraudulent charge even if the scammer took their money overseas.
 
gnome said:
Because I think the answer didn't resolve my question.
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You didn't say that. You just re-asked the question as though it was never answered at all.

If you think that there has never been a situation where fraudulently obtained property can't be recovered from the scammer prior to cryptos then you are living in la la land.

gnome said:
My bank can refund me a fraudulent charge even if the scammer took their money overseas.
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Only if the money is still there and only if you can convince your bank that this was a fraudulent transaction. In many cases the money is long gone and your bank can't do anything about it.
 
but that’s different than with crypto where they literally cannot reverse the transaction under any circumstances without access to the wallet. like if crypto was mistakenly sent to a dead wallet it’s simply forever gone.
 
dirtywick said:
but that’s different than with crypto where they literally cannot reverse the transaction under any circumstances without access to the wallet. like if crypto was mistakenly sent to a dead wallet it’s simply forever gone.
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Dealt with comprehensively 10 years ago.
 
14k is the maximum target now.
Tulip bulbs are still sold at farmers markets.

The problem with crypto is you can't hold them in your hand.
The most miserable brand in history.
 
Dr.Sid said:
Samson's predictions are basically an art form now ..
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Yes I appreciate your discernment.
I will always work on the theme psion ignores because it is so ancient.
Like bitcoin is so entrenched after 13 years of human energy squandering and deception.

I say again, the most gorgeous construct of nature is the periodic table.
Messiahs in the world of Michael Saylor declare:

Bitcoin supercedes the periodic table.

May the best element win!!
 
Samson said:
14k is the maximum target now.
Tulip bulbs are still sold at farmers markets.

The problem with crypto is you can't hold them in your hand.
The most miserable brand in history.
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I hadn't noticed BTC price levels in a while, and given the thing keeps yoyoing like crazy, I thought, when I saw this post, that maybe it had tanked to the twenties level or something, wouldn't be surprised if it did, and that you expect it to fall further. But no, I checked just now, and it's still at ~55k. Are you saying you expect it do plummet from that level to 14k in the short term?


eta: That is, I was wondering whether you're basing your rather bold prediction off of your technical analysis thingie, or something else. And it's cool, my question's just idle curiosity, I don't have money invested in BTC, so it's cool if you're completely wrong, and also cool if you're on the mark, as far as I am concerned. Just wondering what you're basing this target on.
 
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Samson said:
14k is the maximum target now.
Tulip bulbs are still sold at farmers markets.

The problem with crypto is you can't hold them in your hand.
The most miserable brand in history.
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Is there an expiration on this "prediction", or is it in-perpetuity?
 
trustbutverify said:
Is there an expiration on this "prediction", or is it in-perpetuity?
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I watch Michael Saylor.
Somehow he managed to buy 18000 bitcoin at 64650 on September 3, which is higher than the market traded, lifting his average price to 38k. A year ago it was less than 30k.
He predicts 10 million per "coin" in 20 years, when he would be a sprightly mid 70s.
He always talks limited supply, but never addresses the 20k other coins, or that anyone can clone bitcoin for infinite supply. Give me a gold adjacent element on the periodic table with your own brand spanking new big bang I would suggest to him.

The above numbers are from memory, but roughly true I think..
 
Samson said:
I watch Michael Saylor.
Somehow he managed to buy 18000 bitcoin at 64650 on September 3, which is higher than the market traded, lifting his average price to 38k. A year ago it was less than 30k.
He predicts 10 million per "coin" in 20 years, when he would be a sprightly mid 70s.
He always talks limited supply, but never addresses the 20k other coins, or that anyone can clone bitcoin for infinite supply. Give me a gold adjacent element on the periodic table with your own brand spanking new big bang I would suggest to him.

The above numbers are from memory, but roughly true I think..
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he bought over a billion dollar's worth?
 
gabeygoat said:
he bought over a billion dollar's worth?
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Yep
Microstrategy holdings are over 200,000 coins.
Current profit around 4 billion, but that could disappear. He has a personal account holding a billion dollars worth, so no tears need flow yet.
 
FBI's Cryptocurrency fraud report for 2023 just came out:

https://www.ic3.gov/Media/PDF/AnnualReport/2023_IC3CryptocurrencyReport.pdf

As the use of cryptocurrency in the global financial system continues to grow, so too does its use by criminal actors. In 2023, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) received more than 69,000 complaints from the public regarding financial fraud involving the use of cryptocurrency, such as bitcoin, ether, or tether. Estimated losses with a nexus to cryptocurrency totaled more than $5.6 billion. While the number of cryptocurrency-related complaints represents only about 10 percent of the total number of financial fraud complaints, the losses associated with these complaints account for almost 50 percent of the total losses.
 
marting said:
FBI's Cryptocurrency fraud report for 2023 just came out:

https://www.ic3.gov/Media/PDF/AnnualReport/2023_IC3CryptocurrencyReport.pdf

As the use of cryptocurrency in the global financial system continues to grow, so too does its use by criminal actors. In 2023, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) received more than 69,000 complaints from the public regarding financial fraud involving the use of cryptocurrency, such as bitcoin, ether, or tether. Estimated losses with a nexus to cryptocurrency totaled more than $5.6 billion. While the number of cryptocurrency-related complaints represents only about 10 percent of the total number of financial fraud complaints, the losses associated with these complaints account for almost 50 percent of the total losses.
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The advice to would be crypto investors is the same as it always has been for other would be investors: Anybody who claims that they can consistently beat the market average for returns (or can "guarantee" a fast profit) should be regarded as a scammer.

Remember, You can't cheat an honest man.
 
Saw a headline that bitcoin has surged to a new record above $75 k as crypto investors root for Trump victory.

ETA: basically up $5,000 in a day.
 
Puppycow said:
Saw a headline that bitcoin has surged to a new record above $75 k as crypto investors root for Trump victory.

ETA: basically up $5,000 in a day.
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Yeah, it's an early crypto spring. Here's a short piece:
Moreno’s victory means the Senate will be controlled by Republicans in 2025, spurring optimism that pro-crypto legislation could be possible in Washington, D.C.

Trump has promised to fire Securities and Exchange Commission Chair Gary Gensler, one of the industry’s greatest antagonists. He has also pledged to appoint a crypto presidential advisory council and establish a "strategic national bitcoin stockpile" with the help of Congress.
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If I'd been super cynical I'd have bought some bitcoin as soon as Trump's victory was called, then sell it a little while later.
But I do not consider it ethical to participate in that market.
 
gnome said:
If I'd been super cynical I'd have bought some bitcoin as soon as Trump's victory was called, then sell it a little while later.
But I do not consider it ethical to participate in that market.
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I don't understand this moral objection to gambling on crypto. Do you also consider it unethical to gamble at the casino or bet on horses/sporting events?
 
For me it's not a gambling issue. If you recall I find the technology and process unnecessarily wasteful of energy. The "mining" involved is basically competing to see who can burn the most electricity for longest to zero constructive purpose, and I'm not incentivizing that by becoming part of the demand.
 
gnome said:
For me it's not a gambling issue. If you recall I find the technology and process unnecessarily wasteful of energy. The "mining" involved is basically competing to see who can burn the most electricity for longest to zero constructive purpose, and I'm not incentivizing that by becoming part of the demand.
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Fair enough.
 
plus there's also the fact that when it's not wasting tons of electricity to fuel gambling there's the constant stream of scams
 
dirtywick said:
plus there's also the fact that when it's not wasting tons of electricity to fuel gambling there's the constant stream of scams
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The same is true of internet based scams as a whole. I doubt that btc has increased the number of scams - just increased the variety of scams.
 
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