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Billionaires and Taxes

The Atheist

The Grammar Tyrant
Joined
Jul 3, 2006
Messages
36,189
We're all aware that the capitalist system advantages the uber-rich over the hoi polloi, and now Pro Publica has set out exactly how it all works and who pays what.

Amazon CEO Bezos was already a multibillionaire in 2007 when he did not pay a penny in federal income tax. He repeated the feat again in 2011, on his way to becoming the world’s richest person. In 2018, Tesla founder Musk, now the second-richest person in the world, also paid no federal income taxes. Representatives for Bezos declined to receive detailed questions; Musk responded to an initial query with “?” then did not reply beyond that.

https://www.propublica.org/article/...short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered

There's an awful lot to read, but the short form link will give you the gist.

Sadly, the tax gap between rich and poor is technically easy to close, but governments have zero appetite for doing so, mostly because it's those uber-rich who fund politicians' excesses.

I am by no means against people becoming billionaires through running good businesses, but I am aghast that we allow them to pay minimal taxes getting there.
 
No income tax? Cool cool cool. Now do capital gains tax.

Oh, and don't forget all the taxes paid indirectly on things the government incentivizes by explicitly giving tax breaks for them. Charitable donations, for example. Don't forget to do those.
 
No income tax? Cool cool cool. Now do capital gains tax.

Oh, and don't forget all the taxes paid indirectly on things the government incentivizes by explicitly giving tax breaks for them. Charitable donations, for example. Don't forget to do those.

And piles of payroll taxes, property taxes, fuel taxes... I saw a breakdown once where Bezos and his kin actually individually pay more in various taxes than the GDP of some US states.
 
I do admit I love the image of Jeff Bezos going down to the payroll department, filling out his W-2 and direct deposit forms, and drawing a monthly paycheck. And then casually just not filing an income tax return every year. Maybe ProPublica should call the IRS, let them know they missed something.
 
I get the idea of income not actually being his, but the company's, and therefore not actually personal income. Open to horrific abuses, of course, but makes sense in the abstract.

So how much did Amazon Inc and his various other entities make and pay in taxes, that amounts to de facto income tax on Jeffy boy? I mean, if they are his source of income, and they are paying their share (maybe not fair share, but legal)...?
 
I wonder how Pro Publica got ahold of personal income tax forms without the taxpayers consent? Then publish it? Isn't that illegal?
 
And piles of payroll taxes, property taxes, fuel taxes... I saw a breakdown once where Bezos and his kin actually individually pay more in various taxes than the GDP of some US states.

I use that same response when people cry about how much money banks make.

They make huge profits, but they also pay huge wage bills and vast amounts of tax.
 
I get the idea of income not actually being his, but the company's, and therefore not actually personal income. Open to horrific abuses, of course, but makes sense in the abstract.

So how much did Amazon Inc and his various other entities make and pay in taxes, that amounts to de facto income tax on Jeffy boy? I mean, if they are his source of income, and they are paying their share (maybe not fair share, but legal)...?
This is a question that could apply to anyone whose income is generated by a business. As a stockholder in various corporations, I pay taxes on the dividend income. The business expense is of course deducted from the profit of the company that I share in, but it is not deducted from my income, and while I'd be happy if it were, I don't think that will happen, and I don't think it should.

But to be realistic, if you're a billionaire, and you aren't living in a tent, chances are pretty good that even if huge amounts are tied up in investment and blah blah blah you are getting some actual income - actual money is ending up in some form where it can be spent by you - and if you're the kind of billionaire like Bezos who is buying enormous yachts and bunkers on private islands, you're getting a lot. And if you're somehow not paying taxes, there's something wrong there, and I think that's the case even if there are all sorts of reasons for not taxing investments and not figuring out a way to tax the immense resources that make your investments different not only in amount but in character and function from those of people who are more conventionally wealthy.
 
And if you're somehow not paying taxes, there's something wrong there, and I think that's the case even if there are all sorts of reasons for not taxing investments and not figuring out a way to tax the immense resources that make your investments different not only in amount but in character and function from those of people who are more conventionally wealthy.

Investments are taxed, though. And so are the immense resources you speak of. The use of "income tax" in these articles is intentional weasel-wording. Income tax is a specific category of taxation, distinct from capital gains.
 
Investments are taxed, though. And so are the immense resources you speak of. The use of "income tax" in these articles is intentional weasel-wording. Income tax is a specific category of taxation, distinct from capital gains.
Which I think, in the part of my statement you did not quote, I said. But are you saying, then, that someone like Bezos manages to buy islands and yachts and whatnot with no income?

Maybe you live in a different country from the US, where capital gains are taxed in a different way, but here, the actual tax you pay on capital gains is counted as income, and paid as income tax, albeit with a separate set of rules for generating the taxable amount.

Of course it depends a little on how the reporting is done, but if the upshot is that there's no tax due at the bottom of that 1040, you've managed to dodge the tax on more than ordinary income.
 
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But people like Bezos technically never realize capital gains: they have their portfolio, and borrow for peanuts against that: so the little interest they pay they can use the offset any other income.

Ideally, modern billionaires are billions in debt all the time, which works great as long as the book value of their assets exceeds their liabilities.
 
Let's agree that billionaires should be heavily taxed.
We can talk about the How after that.

Exactly.

Ideally, modern billionaires are billions in debt all the time, which works great as long as the book value of their assets exceeds their liabilities.

And there's living proof even an abject moron can survive on a big enough inheritance. Some orange bloke, I believe.
 
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