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Biden not likely to be charged for mishanding classified documents.

Ranb

Penultimate Amazing
Ranb
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Takeaways from special counsel’s report into Biden’s handling of classified documents.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/08/politics/takeaways-joe-biden-special-counsel-report/index.html
The special counsel report found that Biden willfully retained classified information, including top secret documents, and knew he was in possession of some documents as far back as 2017. He also shared some of that information with the ghostwriter of his 2017 memoir.

The special counsel decided not to charge the president in the case – primarily because he found that nothing proved a willful intent by Biden to illegally hold onto classified information and his cooperation with the investgation.

Yet, in a politically damaging line of reasoning, Hur wrote that one reason Biden wasn’t going to be prosecuted was because he would present to a jury as an elderly man “with a poor memory.” Biden’s lawyers objected to the description – calling it “investigative excess” and accusing Hur of flouting Justice Department rules and norms.
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It's the "elderly poor old man" defense? And still fit to be nominated for president?

******* hell. Am I the only who thinks that "Biden willfully retained classified information" and "nothing proved a willful intent by Biden to illegally hold onto classified information" are two statements that make no sense being used together here?

I'm fairly certain I would be in jail awaiting trial if I had that stuff in my house.

The report; https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/08/politics/robert-hur-report-biden-classified-documents-read/index.html

Ranb

ETA; He also blames his staff. https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/biden-classified-documents-report-02-08-24/index.html
 
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Gord_in_Toronto said:
Without reading the 288 pages, can someone tell me if he lied about having them?
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And hid them from the DoJ when they came asking for them back?

And then lied that they had all been returned?

And then had to be raided by the authorities to recover a big stash of stuff that he had hidden in his crappy toilet room?

And then erased the security footage of him hiding stuff before the raid?

And STILL has a possible stash hidden somewhere in his garage?

And has probably shown/given the documents to foreign nationals, some of whom work for adversaries of the USA?

And has claimed vehemently throughout that "unlimited presidential privilege" permits him to do all this?
 
Ranb said:
Takeaways from special counsel’s report into Biden’s handling of classified documents.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/08/politics/takeaways-joe-biden-special-counsel-report/index.html


It's the "elderly poor old man" defense? And still fit to be nominated for president?

******* hell. Am I the only who thinks that "Biden willfully retained classified information" and "nothing proved a willful intent by Biden to illegally hold onto classified information" are two statements that make no sense being used together here?

I'm fairly certain I would be in jail awaiting trial if I had that stuff in my house.

The report; https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/08/politics/robert-hur-report-biden-classified-documents-read/index.html

Ranb

ETA; He also blames his staff. https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/biden-classified-documents-report-02-08-24/index.html
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I think you're believing what you want to believe and disregarding the facts in the report.

Unlike Trump, Biden selected a Republican as special prosecutor to investigate him. The Republcan special prosecutor coul find no justification to prosecute Biden. But felt the need to include commentary and innuendo why Biden (who willingly allowed himself to be deposed) couldn't recall certain events and the order they happened. Keep in mind he was being asked questions on events that happened years before.
 
acbytesla said:
Keep in mind he was being asked questions on events that happened years before.
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He didn’t know when he was vice president. How long are you going to keep pretending that he’s not in cognitive decline? How many imaginary encounters with dead people is it going to take before you face facts?
 
So, Biden did a press conference where many of the reporters latched onto the description about a "well-meaning elderly man with a poor memory" description.

Biden said he was well-meaning and elderly but said that his memory was fine, and instead blamed his staff for not depositing the documents in the archives. He also claims that one item that he said was classified was actually "private", therefore not a breach.



That said, I do find that when I'm listening to Biden speak that I have to extend some charity to understand what he's saying. He does seem to me to get a bit lost.

In particular, he is about to leave then someone asks him about the Gaza-Isreal war and the hostages.

I'm sorry, but his rambling talk was pretty hard to follow, with him, at one point referring to the president of "Mexico" Sisi. He then said something about how "you'll recall" there were other negotiations like the ones I had just after...er... before the Hamas attack when he talked with the Saudis and the Qataris about them recognizing Israel's right to exist and that it was based on 2 things that I am not going to go into right now but one of them was about the arch-enemy in the north west, I mean the north east....

Huh?!

ETA: But not to pick on Biden alone, here is Trump saying "Viktor Orban, has anyone ever heard of him... he's the leader of Turkey."

Jesus F Christ!
 
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Ziggurat said:
He didn’t know when he was vice president. How long are you going to keep pretending that he’s not in cognitive decline? How many imaginary encounters with dead people is it going to take before you face facts?
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Nonsense. Hell, we're all suffering from Cognitive Decline after say the age of 6. I scored a combine 1450 SAT score out of high school and I know for a fact I'm nowhere near as quick as I was then. I have a lot more knowledge today though.

Maybe Biden isn't as sharp as he was ten or twenty years ago. He still makes Trump sound like a babbling feeble moron.
 
acbytesla said:
Nonsense. Hell, we're all suffering from Cognitive Decline after say the age of 6. I scored a combine 1450 SAT score out of high school and I know for a fact I'm nowhere near as quick as I was then. I have a lot more knowledge today though.

Maybe Biden isn't as sharp as he was ten or twenty years ago. He still makes Trump sound like a babbling feeble moron.
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Dude. He imagines meeting people who are dead. He confused Mexico and Egypt. He isn't just slower, he's losing it. The signs are obvious.
 
acbytesla said:
Nonsense.
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What's nonsense? Are you unaware that those things happened? Or are you seriously claiming they don't mean anything? I can help you correct the former, I can do nothing for you if you suffer the latter.
 
Ziggurat said:
Dude. He imagines meeting people who are dead. He confused Mexico and Egypt. He isn't just slower, he's losing it. The signs are obvious.
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This is all BS, distorting the facts to fit a desired narrative. Nothing suggests he losing it, especially a report that picks mistakes out of context.

Trump OTOH screws up over and over on camera, not as in the case of Biden during one or however many of interviews.
 
Ziggurat said:
What's nonsense? Are you unaware that those things happened? Or are you seriously claiming they don't mean anything? I can help you correct the former, I can do nothing for you if you suffer the latter.
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Some of the things you referred to have already been debunked like mixing up the name of the French Minister.

I'll wait for the dust to shake out before buying into this 'believe an assertion, not your own eyes'.
 
Ziggurat said:
What's nonsense? Are you unaware that those things happened? Or are you seriously claiming they don't mean anything? I can help you correct the former, I can do nothing for you if you suffer the latter.
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I've been reading you peddling this pablum for a couple of years. I've listened to him speak many many times. IMV, he sounds articulate, thoughtful, kind and intelligent. His voice in particular sounds worse than it used to though.

He is not as sharp as he used to be. I give you that. Still, he comes across more intelligent than 90 percent of the population.

And he definitely sounds more intelligent than the whining Dunning Kruger orange moron.
Seriously, have you EVER EVER heard that idiot speak honestly or intelligently about foreign policy or economics?
 
You couldn't ask for a better demonstration of the fact that even his "defenders" know how far gone he is than the fact that they keep falling back to "but Trump".
 
I know, isn't it just so strange that when someone is compared to the accepted greatest rival, they keep getting compared to that rival?
 
Trump appears to be who he is running against. That doesn't make either of them the GOAT. But this isn't an athletic event. I don't need the President to be great. I need him to be wise, have good people around him. Care about others. Biden actually is working on our behalf. Even those who voted for Trump

Trump is a criminal. A straight up con man. A lying, stealing selfish, self centered moron who has damaged this country far worse than I thought a President could. He leads a cult of stupid deluded jerks to what end? To help Trump.

I could compare Biden to the Florida or Texas dictators. But they're not running.
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
Without reading the 288 pages, can someone tell me if he lied about having them?
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The answer seems to be yes but only in public, not under oath or anything.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/09/...handling-of-classified-information/index.html
Mostly easily explained by actually forgetting, which is quite reasonable even if he wasn't in clear cognitive decline.


It seems as though the real legal question is whether he did it on purpose and the report seems to say, "we think so but we can't prove so no charges."

There also seems to be a lot of prejudicial language regarding Biden's memory which seems unnecessary and makes think they team was a tad bit biased.

"But trump" is unfortunately a totally valid defense of Biden. Trum did the same thing but in spades and clearly on purpose and refused to cooperate with the feds. Biden, may have done it on purpose but totally cooperated with handing them over.

ETA: Biden supporters are clearly in denial of his clear decline on the other hand, still better than Trump, less clear decline but coming from a much worse place to start.
 
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Ziggurat said:
What's nonsense? Are you unaware that those things happened? Or are you seriously claiming they don't mean anything? I can help you correct the former, I can do nothing for you if you suffer the latter.
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I’m not too worried about an 81 year-old man being forgetful on occasion. You’ll need to do a lot more heavy lifting than your usual bare assertions to turn that into cognitive decline.

I’ll be over here holding my breath for your detailed analysis complete with cites from relevant authorities.
 
johnny karate said:
I’m not too worried about an 81 year-old man being forgetful on occasion.
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He's forgetful about some pretty important things on a regular basis.

I’ll be over here holding my breath for your detailed analysis complete with cites from relevant authorities.
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I don't need a "relevant authority" to know that when Biden mixes up Egypt and Mexico, that's not a good sign. And it's not a one-off. He does this on the regular. This isn't some esoteric subject requiring arcane knowledge and data analysis to figure out.

The excuses being thrown around here to avoid the obvious are really something.
 
Ziggaraut said:
I don't need a "relevant authority" to know that when Biden mixes up Egypt and Mexico, that's not a good sign. And it's not a one-off. He does this on the regular. This isn't some esoteric subject requiring arcane knowledge and data analysis to figure out.

The excuses being thrown around here to avoid the obvious are really something.
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At least he isn’t a thin-skinned narcissist like Obama, amirite?
 
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Ziggurat said:
Dude. He imagines meeting people who are dead. He confused Mexico and Egypt. He isn't just slower, he's losing it. The signs are obvious.
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Ziggurat said:
He didn’t know when he was vice president. How long are you going to keep pretending that he’s not in cognitive decline? How many imaginary encounters with dead people is it going to take before you face facts?
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Pretty much all of this is actually true but I'm still going to vote for him.

In his press conference on this report he appeared to confuse who was president of Mexico vs Egypt. He has recently claimed to have talked to Francsois Mitterrand and Helmut Kohl, the report seems to say that he at one point forgot that he was VP.

I'm still going to vote for him, but I'm not going to pretend he's large and incharge.
 
Eight years of Eisenhower, during which I grew from a boy to a young man, left a lot of Americans pretty damn blasé about brain-challenged politicians.

Me? I wouldn't trade one dribbling Biden for ten garbling Ikes.

#Zig! Goddammit, be honest and open about your ambitions! Let 'em surge! Announce your candidacy for US Prexy! Vote for the Black Sun Party, everybody! You'll be fairly glad you did!
 
ahhell said:
Pretty much all of this is actually true but I'm still going to vote for him.

In his press conference on this report he appeared to confuse who was president of Mexico vs Egypt. He has recently claimed to have talked to Francsois Mitterrand and Helmut Kohl, the report seems to say that he at one point forgot that he was VP.

I'm still going to vote for him, but I'm not going to pretend he's large and incharge.
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Ditto.

We didn't get dealt a great hand but a nine is still better than a two so we're going to have to play it.
 
There is an important and nuanced discussion to be had regarding Biden's age and physical fitness. Right-wingers aren't part of it.
 
ahhell said:
Pretty much all of this is actually true but I'm still going to vote for him.
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Would you vote for him against another democrat primary candidate?

I can't help but wonder if having Biden do that disastrous press conference last night was a way to try to push him out the door now, before it's too late.
 
Delvo said:
You couldn't ask for a better demonstration of the fact that even his "defenders" know how far gone he is than the fact that they keep falling back to "but Trump".
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Am I one of the "defenders" you speak of? :rolleyes: I've not fallen back on "but Trump".


I'm saying I've seen a lot of Biden in the last few months. He's not the elderly forgetful man described by the Trump supporting hack.


Listen to Biden's response. It was a 5 hour interview with the special council covering stuff from 30 years ago while Biden took time out from handling the acute crisis in Israel.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Am I one of the "defenders" you speak of? :rolleyes: I've not fallen back on "but Trump".


I'm saying I've seen a lot of Biden in the last few months. He's not the elderly forgetful man described by the Trump supporting hack.
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Are you saying that he's not an elderly forgetful man at all?

Because that's the only justification given for not pressing charges.
 
ahhell said:
... ETA: Biden supporters are clearly in denial of his clear decline on the other hand, still better than Trump, less clear decline but coming from a much worse place to start.
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Other than this biased report with gratuitous BS about Biden's supposed significant mental decline do you have any corroborating evidence supporting these few lines of criticism?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Other than this biased report with gratuitous BS about Biden's supposed significant mental decline do you have any corroborating evidence supporting these few lines of criticism?
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You mean aside from all the video examples of him screwing things up? Including in a press conference intended to address the fact that he screws things up?
 
Ziggurat said:
He's forgetful about some pretty important things on a regular basis.
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Example preferably with a citation?

Ziggurat said:
I don't need a "relevant authority" to know that when Biden mixes up Egypt and Mexico, that's not a good sign. And it's not a one-off. He does this on the regular. This isn't some esoteric subject requiring arcane knowledge and data analysis to figure out.
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Other than your absurd claim this happens on a regular basis, got a citation?

Ziggurat said:
The excuses being thrown around here to avoid the obvious are really something.
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Avoid the obvious you cannot corroborate?
 
Ziggurat said:
Would you vote for him against another democrat primary candidate?
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Absolutely. I haven't seen any better candidate so far.

Ziggurat said:
I can't help but wonder if having Biden do that disastrous press conference last night was a way to try to push him out the door now, before it's too late.
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:rolleyes:

How was it disastrous? Did you watch a different one than I did?
 
If Biden were running against anybody else, I probably wouldn’t for him. But he’s running against Trump. It’s an easy choice for me.
 
Donal said:
There is an important and nuanced discussion to be had regarding Biden's age and physical fitness. Right-wingers aren't part of it.
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It's a little late for nuance; a contingent of Democratic leaders needs to let him know that it's time for the pasture.
 
Ziggurat said:
You mean aside from all the video examples of him screwing things up? Including in a press conference intended to address the fact that he screws things up?
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No specifics, no citations? This is all you have?

This is not a memory issue it's an insignificant gaffe:
The US president referenced the ongoing conflict in the Middle East, saying: “The president of Mexico did not want to open up the gate to allow humanitarian material to get in. I talked to him... I talked to Bibi [Benjamin Netanyahu] to open the gate on the Israeli side."
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It's clear he meant Israel given he mentioned Bibi in the next sentence. It's especially clear by the fact there are current ongoing issues with illegal immigration coming from Mexico. It's easy to mix the countries up in a friggin sentence.

Compare that to Trump mixing up Haley with Pelosi over and over and over. And thinking the picture of Carroll was that of Maples? He affirmed it was Maples when asked again.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Example preferably with a citation?
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The special counsel report, for one. But here's a couple recent examples.

Binden mixed up Mexico with Egypt.

Biden thinks he met a dead person.

There are plenty more. Hell, even ignoring the words, just listen to his cadence. It's stumbling, it's uncertain, he mumbles all the time, he has to pause to come up with the right words. This is a dramatic decline from how he used to speak.

And everyone can see it, even if not everyone can acknowledge it.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
It's clear he meant Israel given he mentioned Bibi in the next sentence.
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No. He meant Egypt. Watch the clip I posted above.

It's especially clear by the fact there are current ongoing issues with illegal immigration coming from Mexico. It's easy to mix the countries up in a friggin sentence.
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It's easy to confuse Mexico with Egypt? When talking about the situation in Gaza?

Compare that to Trump
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This thread isn't about Trump, it's about Biden. Start your own Trump thread if you want to talk about Trump's mental state, or use one of the existing ones.
 
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