Automatic Writing
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Chanakya
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Sorry, I'd originally just baldly put that link there. See my edit, for the context of it.
The point is just to explore this thing, get to know what it is, including people's personal experience of it.
I never seriously attempted automatic writing, and never did it by accident. But I did have an analogous experience once, of seeming to merely watch as my hands carried out a wiring task without my consciously directing them. The task was conceptually simple (adding small battery-powered "glowing eyes" to a friend's Nazgul costume headpiece at an SF con) but involved many different steps and tools (stripping wires, soldering connections, heat shrink insulation, securing the lights and batteries in place and so forth). Due to other things of great importance (to me) going on at the con, I'd gone without sleep for several days. Fortunately the task was one I could (almost) literally do in my sleep!
I interpret the experience as a state of dissociation between the observing-and-recording and the doing-wiring-with-my-hands portions of my sleep-deprived brain. I suspect "automatic driving" (not in the sense of the vehicle's transmission) is far more common, but I avoid that as it seems unacceptably dangerous.
I interpret the experience as a state of dissociation between the observing-and-recording and the doing-wiring-with-my-hands portions of my sleep-deprived brain. I suspect "automatic driving" (not in the sense of the vehicle's transmission) is far more common, but I avoid that as it seems unacceptably dangerous.
The Great Zaganza
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I love the videos of people speaking in tongues and clearly getting bored or forgetting the text.
I assume this is pretty much the same
I assume this is pretty much the same
Ryan O'Dine
OD’ing on Damitol
All my posts are automatically written. If they make sense to you, you're probably having a medical emergency.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Stand by...
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Okay. These are from somewhere between August 1989 and January 1990 (I didn't date my entries). See what you make of them.
The Surrealists and Dadaists liked automatic writing, or automatism.
I'm currently reading an anthropology of art and writings from a magazine published in Paris nearly 100 years ago, and some of it is very random.
Sometimes they used "cut-ups", sheets of writing cut up into smaller pieces of paper, then they'd put them together randomly and make a new article/poem/piece. This is like Navigator's "beyond the ideomotor" experiments.
Sometimes the Dadaists etc wrote randomly, seemingly doing "cut-ups" in their heads, much like arthwollipot's journals.
It all relies on the Forer Effect to "make sense" of the words.
I'm currently reading an anthropology of art and writings from a magazine published in Paris nearly 100 years ago, and some of it is very random.
Sometimes they used "cut-ups", sheets of writing cut up into smaller pieces of paper, then they'd put them together randomly and make a new article/poem/piece. This is like Navigator's "beyond the ideomotor" experiments.
Sometimes the Dadaists etc wrote randomly, seemingly doing "cut-ups" in their heads, much like arthwollipot's journals.
It all relies on the Forer Effect to "make sense" of the words.
Thermal
August Member
Automatic writing is for weenies. Automatic tattooing is where it's at.
Chanakya
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Thanks for sharing.
Not sure, though, that this is equivalent? I mean, I haven't ever done the comic con thing, "automatically" or otherwise, or anything like it. But the the "automatic" driving thing, that, sure. I'm sure most everyone will have done that. And that seems completely straightforward, it's simply getting so used to doing something that you do it without thinking about it, without even registering it even sometimes.
I was under the impression that automatic writing is ...different, more ...weird? (Hazy impresssion, admittedly. Could be that impression was wrong. That's why this thread, to get a better idea about this.)
...I was, frankly, not clear at all how that might even happen, putting your hand down on a sheet of paper and have "automatic" writing flow from it, at all, short of being dead drunk or stoned or something (in which latter case again it's straightforward enough). Regardless of whether or not it adds up to anything, anything deep and profound and so on --- just the doing of it, not sure how that might even happen.
Chanakya
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Ah. This is ...interesting! Very much so!
But what was all of this about? Me, I'm not quite sure how automatic writing might even happen. I take pen in hand, hold it on a sheet of paper or a notebook, and ...what? I'm not quite sure how any writing might follow, profoundly meaningful or otherwise!
It was my impression that this happens when people (imagine/believe they) are moved by Jesus, or God, or some ghost or "spirit", or maybe some chakric Kundalini-rising thing, or whatever, to do this. Some weird woo thing. ...Is that right?
So, how was it with you? How'd you get to doing that? Were you, at that time, moved by Jesus, or something like that? (That is, of course you weren't, but did you, maybe, kind of believe you were, back then, or what? ...I do remember you'd once shared with me that you'd been part of some church long back.)
...Sorry, don't want to go putting words in your mouth! Just, what was that all about, exactly? (Like I said, my idea of automatic writing is kind of hazy. And my impression is it's all woo --- woo as far as not only any deep profound "messages" that might come out of it, but woo even in the very act of just doing it even.)
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As far as "analyzing" it, well, I don't really know what to look for, and how! But my general reaction would be this: Certainly I can make out coherent words there, and coherent phrases as well, and sometimes full coherent sentences. Not just random strings of letters and words. Surely that's remarkable enough? (Depending, obviously, on how we define this automatic writing thing, depending on what it actually consists of!) Like, there's this cliche about monkeys and typewriters and Shakespeare's works, right? So, you don't actually have to actually write Shakespearean stuff, the monkeys simply typing out coherent phrases and sentences, quite at random, and producing something like you have, would be remarkable enough, surely?
...Sorry, don't mean to compare you to monkeys! You know what I mean. If I myself held a pen over paper, and did not actually write deliberately, but just let my hands move as they would: Well, to begin with, I don't know that they'd move at all! But even if they did move, then I'd be very impressed if I got anything as coherent as what you've written there, complete words and phrases and sentences even.
So yeah, that's my take. Sure there's patterns there, and very remarkable patterns, just the fact that there's any (linguistic) coherence there at all.
(I know, I'm probably doing it wrong, the "analyzing" of it! Like I said, I've no clue what to look for, even. I'll actually let others do the posting in this thread, from now on! Certainly the discussing of your experiences, like you've done, and to an extent @Myriad as well above, and whoever else has experienced something like this. And also the analyzing of it, as well. I'll just, like I said originally, just read the thread, and try to understand what on earth this is even about, from now on!)
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...And also, and in addition to the hows and wherefores of how exactly you got around to doing this at all: as far as that last, about others analyzing this thing, how did you yourself analyze this thing, back then? Did you yourself maybe see messages from Jesus in it, or something? (Again, don't mean to go putting words in your mouth. And nor am I laughing at you! I mean that literally, how did you yourself analyze it then, beyond being (rightly) impressed with just getting (linguistically) coherent phrases and sentences? Or if not you yourself, then how did other believers-in-woo analyze it and interpret it, back then?)
Chanakya
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That's interesting, actually, your bringing up the Forer effect in this context. ...I mean, I agree completely, obviously. But I'd generally associate Forer, or Barnum, with deliberately administered cons, like astrology, psychic readings, channeling spirits, whatever. In this case, there's no deliberate, overt scamming happening, no one's engineering it, is there? ...But still, agreed, the principle of it is the same, as far as those who might recognize "messages" in this randomness.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
The trick is that you actually have to start writing. It won't happen without your conscious volition. You can't just sit there and wait for something other than you to move your hand. Just don't think about what you're writing. Don't go into it intending to write anything in particular, just write words. If no words come, write scribbles.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Just writing random words, but meticulously following the lines of the ruled page.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
It seems to me that you're just handing over control of your muscles from your conscious mind to your unconscious mind, the same way a dowser or ouija board user does. Or even, indeed, the way I do when I'm driving down a very familiar road, moving the steering wheel and changing gear whilst thinking about something else entirely. Or staying upright whilst riding my bike.
But are conscious and unconscious actually scientific things?
Theprestige makes a good point about keeping to the lines, even in Arth's reply to that, the sentences follow a readable path, guided by him.
Theprestige makes a good point about keeping to the lines, even in Arth's reply to that, the sentences follow a readable path, guided by him.
The difference is, when you're automatic driving you're not conscious of doing it. If you become aware of doing it, you don't think "oh weird it's like my hands are moving the steering wheel by themselves; let's watch and see how that's going to work out." If you become aware of it, you're not doing it any more. At least, as far as I've experienced or been told. But also from what I've been told, I think automatic writing is more like my SF con experience, being aware it's happening (possibly, even, willing it to continue happening) but not being aware of directing what's being written.
Axxman300
Philosopher
At my worst I was a black-out drunk. The week after an epic night was spent finding out what the hell I did. There was a lot of, "I did what?". IMO, automatic writing is along the same lines. Your lizard brain climbs into the driver's seat and does lizard brain things.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Try reading it.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
The book that I'm taking these photos from is a 240-page exercise book. I have two others, filled with even more "creative" page arrangements. The first book (which I called The Book) has the most... shall we say "normal", more or less structured writing. In the next book (which I called The Next Book) I've cut holes in the paper, folded pieces of the page over, or just doodled. I'm not sure what happened to my third book (Another Book) but I don't seem to still have it. I do still have the fourth (Toccata And Book). This covers a period from late 1989 to the end of 1993. In places it gets more straightforward and traditionally journal-like, in others it gets rather weird.
But also remember that we're talking about automatic writing, not drawing. There are letters and words and sentences. I've also done automatic drawing, where I let the pen just do whatever, but that's not the same thing.
But also remember that we're talking about automatic writing, not drawing. There are letters and words and sentences. I've also done automatic drawing, where I let the pen just do whatever, but that's not the same thing.
And now, a personal question, Arthwollipot, but do you think you were you mentally unwell when writing this stuff?
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
It's pretty clear that I've been neurodivergent all my life, at least. But at this time not more than background mental unwellness. I was smoking some pot, but it was before that became chronic.
Thanks for replying. Was the automatic writing done during your religious fundamentalist phase?
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
No, after. That was around 1986-87 or so.
Those were crazy times, in my experience.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
They were a little weird, yeah.Those were crazy times, in my experience.
Chanakya
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Oh. That's ...kind of different, than how I'd imagined it. Much less extravagant, much more, ...meh? (Which is cool, I'd only had a hazy idea of this. I'd kind of imagined the "automatic" part was a bit more literal. As things stand, this is just giving vent to what's in your mind, trying not to overtly filter it via your thought processes as far as you can. That's ...straightforward enough.)
But in that case: What's even the point of looking for patterns? Let's say we did find patterns in someone's Automatic Writing, beyond Orphia Nay's Forer and Barnum, so what? If you did put in all of Shakespeare, then maybe you've simply got an eidetic memory, or at least your subconscious does. And if you did put in Shakespeare-esque but original work, then that would mean that you're a cool creative guy, and have tapped into a cool technique to unleash your creativity: but beyond that, what? ...That is: I can see how something like this might, perhaps, be useful in therapy, or maybe in creative writing sessions, but I'm at a loss what any pattern we might find there, even if shown to be 'true' patterns, would prove, as far as the paranormal. It all seems straightforward enough, right?
Why go to the trouble of doing all of that, then? If you hadn't been religious at that point in time, that is? (To the extent you might be comfortable sharing on a public forum!)
Chanakya
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That's ...weird? Outside of pot, and the like, I suppose it's explained by the lack of sleep, that you mentioned.
But different, yes. Very different than the more straightforward thing @arthwollipot describes, in his post that I responded to just now.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Myriad is describing "flow" where you do the thing without consciously thinking about it. I often find myself in a flow state while swordfighting, especially against a good opponent.
While I was writing, I was conscious that I was writing and what the words were. I was simply not premeditating the words - they would come spontaneously, without forethought.
And to answer your other question, I was doing it to pass the time. I had a job at the time which consisted of starting a thing going, then waiting several minutes for it to finish, during which I had nothing else to do. And I would be doing this repeatedly throughout the day. While the thing was running, I would pick up the pen and just start writing.
While I was writing, I was conscious that I was writing and what the words were. I was simply not premeditating the words - they would come spontaneously, without forethought.
And to answer your other question, I was doing it to pass the time. I had a job at the time which consisted of starting a thing going, then waiting several minutes for it to finish, during which I had nothing else to do. And I would be doing this repeatedly throughout the day. While the thing was running, I would pick up the pen and just start writing.
Chanakya
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Ah, I don't know. Flow, I'd say, is a third thing, different from both these. Yep, your sword fighting, sure. I'd say I've encountered it when running, when working out, even in the course of something as prosaic as working (on particularly involved research, sometimes); and most often when meditating. I don't know that you can aim for flow, but you know it when you've got it.
And again, the automatic writing, sure, no deliberate premeditation, but given the writing itself was deliberate, again, I don't see what a pattern, even if found beyond Barnum etc, might prove, beyond something completely straightforward. (That is, I'm now unclear why the hoohaa over Automatic Writing. And there is hoohaa, not in your case, but in theistic and woo-ridden circles there is. Might they do it any differently than you, then? I don't know!)
...And cool, your reasons for doing this. Just experimentation, apparently, and passing the time. Was wondering, is all.
And again, the automatic writing, sure, no deliberate premeditation, but given the writing itself was deliberate, again, I don't see what a pattern, even if found beyond Barnum etc, might prove, beyond something completely straightforward. (That is, I'm now unclear why the hoohaa over Automatic Writing. And there is hoohaa, not in your case, but in theistic and woo-ridden circles there is. Might they do it any differently than you, then? I don't know!)
...And cool, your reasons for doing this. Just experimentation, apparently, and passing the time. Was wondering, is all.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Whatever else we can say about automatic writing, we can say it has no practical applications. If it did, we'd have noticed by now.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Depends on whether you call "passing the time while having nothing else to do" a practical application.
P.J. Denyer
Penultimate Amazing
I had an 'automatic driving' incident a couple of weeks ago, I was on a main road (UK so driving on left) with side roads coming up first on the right and a few yards later on the left, both of which I had priority over. A little way ahead of me were two cars driving close, but it wasn't quite tailgating, a cyclist coming toward not quite at the left hand side road and a car waiting to pull out from the right one. The cyclist reached the left hand side road just as the first car got there too and swerved straight between the two cars to turn into it, it was an insane move, I was sure I was going to witness an accident (somehow the cyclist made it through the gap, but he must have cleared by centimeters) but for a second my conscious attention was entirely on the road directly in front of me. At this moment apparently without my knowing violation my hands jerked the steering wheel to the left, and it was only as that manoeuvre prevented me hitting the car which had pulled out of the side road to my right without checking the main road was clear.
