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Assassination of United Healthcare CEO

Maybe, but it does mean there's tremendous pressure on GP's to specialise and make more money, and the US system doesn't have enough GP's as it is leading to more expensive healthcare.

My wife and I are on a bronze plan for which we pay nearly $1800 a month which routinely denies all claims and has a $10,000 deductible besides. It's a disaster in my book.
Ok, that's horrific. I have the good fortune of being at the other end of the spectrum, Horizon BC/BS who can't seem to be happier to provide comprehensive coverage.

I like the idea of single payer, but one (and only one) thing that Rush Limbaugh asked rhetorically that struck a chord with me: "What does government actually run *well*?"

Im.afraid if our bureaucracy gets ahold of it, it'll actually be a worse nightmare
 
Try reading Richard Brooks' Bean Counters...

None of the big accountancy companies look good.

That's very silly. I have worked with bean counters all my working life, being one myself. I can honestly say they are great to work with, good fun, witty; a decent bunch all together. I have come across four who were embezzlers but in general they are just ordinary people, like any other professional group.

I have yet to see anything that shows Brian Thompson to be anything other than an ordinary corporate guy. It's true he might have offloaded $15m of his shares because of insider knowledge of an antitrust investigation not yet publicly known, but it is also quite possible he was simply following market signals - selling because his acquaintances were, without necessarily knowing about the antitrust thing.
 
I'm thinking it was a guy shouting "You're all dead!" or "You're already dead!" while being restrained. But that's pretty close. I may be mis-remembering. I'm pretty sure it's not Sigourney Weaver I'm thinking of.
More like Sarah Connor from T2. She says "You're already dead, Silberman. Everybody dies."

I was joking about the last line in the movie Soylent Green where Charlton Heston shouts "Soylent Green is people" as they are dragging him away.
 
No. Let's get very carried away. These bandaid approaches which allows the wealthy to find workarounds to continue their parasitic drain on Americans and the economy needs to stop.

Where exactly do you live? Because none of that describes the US. Insulin prices when left up to corporate interests were insanely expensive. Biden forced the issue that brought down insulin prices. I would disagree with almost all of what you said. Healthcare in the US is not relatively cheap. It's grotesquely overpriced. We pay the twice the percentage of our income on healthcare than they do in Canada and almost all of Europe. And our life expectancy is lower. If it's so damn good, why is this?
I indeed do not live in US. I have location under my name (on the left, btw. more people should us that function). US has problem with unregulated (or very poorly regulated) healthcare system, where all the components cooperate to maximize prices and profits.

As for bandaid approaches, yes, healthcare in US needs major reset. But I'm afraid under Trump you'll be happy for every little bandaid. Literally.

Well actually .. maybe Elon could help .. he's a bull in a china shop, sure .. but this china shop needs a bull.
 
The doctors basically say "nah". Or more realistically (looking at my wife's statements), they triple their billing, then refuse to come down anymore when they knock off 25% as a good faith bargaining gesture, saying theyve given their fair allowance already

I posted upthread one of my wife's coverage summaries. The doc billed for multiple consultations at over $800 per, in addition tobthe office visit charges and all the routine stuff. He didn't do anything but talk to me wife for about 10 minutes. How do you bill for 6 consultations when you talk to a patient for 10 mins?

The insurers are no angels. But from what I'm looking at, they are often paying out absurd redundant charges, and paying them with no argument. This is more complex than the bad old insurance people pulling too much

Educate more doctors?
 
Ok, that's horrific. I have the good fortune of being at the other end of the spectrum, Horizon BC/BS who can't seem to be happier to provide comprehensive coverage.

I like the idea of single payer, but one (and only one) thing that Rush Limbaugh asked rhetorically that struck a chord with me: "
What does government actually run *well*?"

Off the top of my head:
  • Social Security and other programs to promote financial security in retirement
  • Medicare (the most direct correlation with the present discussion and among the most popular of all government programs) and the VA
  • National highways, air traffic and (locally) public transportation access
  • Safe food and drinking water
  • Reduce workplace discrimination
  • Improve worker safety
  • Reduce disease
  • Expand and protect civil rights and the right to vote
  • The military and foreign aid
Many, many other governments manage a health care system with lower costs and better outcomes than the insurance racket here.
 
I indeed do not live in US. I have location under my name (on the left, btw. more people should us that function). US has problem with unregulated (or very poorly regulated) healthcare system, where all the components cooperate to maximize prices and profits.

As for bandaid approaches, yes, healthcare in US needs major reset. But I'm afraid under Trump you'll be happy for every little bandaid. Literally.

Well actually .. maybe Elon could help .. he's a bull in a china shop, sure .. but this china shop needs a bull.
But I don't trust Elon. I use to. But he's proven himself to be a self centered cretin.
 
Off the top of my head:
  • Social Security and other programs to promote financial security in retirement
  • Medicare (the most direct correlation with the present discussion and among the most popular of all government programs) and the VA
  • National highways, air traffic and (locally) public transportation access
  • Safe food and drinking water
  • Reduce workplace discrimination
  • Improve worker safety
  • Reduce disease
  • Expand and protect civil rights and the right to vote
  • The military and foreign aid
We could run them down in order, starting from social.security as a spitshined Ponzi scheme, to the grossly overfunded military and its highly disputable benefits to most of civilization, but the resulting quagmire of derail would be insufferable.
Many, many other governments manage a health care system with lower costs and better outcomes than the insurance racket here.
They do. Whether they are better, worse, or some of each is again, a long discussion. Convincing American doctors to take a 75% pay cut will be amusing to hear proposed as seriously required to make it happen.
 
The argument for both sid and thermal and vixen would hold more water if they weren't denying coverage at a higher clip than every other health insurance company in the US. When all else fails compare them to their peers. Even in an industry that does everything possible to bleed as much money out of it's "clients" as possible, this company was significantly worse than all of the rest of them.

I'm not in the mood to hear excuse making for healthcare companies and CEOs. He was worse than all the others and now he's in the ground.
First off, what are you basing their rejection percentage on? And does it even purport to consider plan differences? I do not take this stuff as given, so to even concede this common argument I'd like to see what it is based on.

Also for all the conversation on denial rates, the rate of appeals for denials seems to be at .1%. Which matches my experience of doctors prescribing whatever a patient wants, or the most expensive option because the friction lands on insurance, not them. So why not?


They do. Whether they are better, worse, or some of each is again, a long discussion. Convincing American doctors to take a 75% pay cut will be amusing to hear proposed as seriously required to make it happen.
We can all hate insurance. Some will even hate doctors. But are you brave enough to hate nurses, pa's and every other service provider that also is paid extraordinarily more than any other country?

An aside but I get annoyed at doctors because they will consistently paint low payout rates and miraculously it will always be the medicare set rate they refer to. Or they will point to student loan amounts, or low residency pay but conveniently ignore PSLF loan forgiveness and the abundance of non-profit hospitals they could choose. 10 years of payments, nearly half of them at low rates due to residency pay and those loans are completely forgiven.
 
they try, there was a big story about an insurance company trying to do exactly that with anesthesiologist and the doctors won the PR battle with a press statement about evil insurance companies limiting anesthesia. The providers have better PR.
No, it proves that the threat of violence made an evil insurance company shut up and pay for health care:
Early morning, Dec 4, Brian Thompson is killed in the street on his way to an investors meeting
Afternoon, Dec 6, CNN reports: Insurance company halts plan to put time limits on coverage for anesthesia during surgery
 
No, it proves that the threat of violence made an evil insurance company shut up and pay for health care:
Early morning, Dec 4, Brian Thompson is killed in the street on his way to an investors meeting
Afternoon, Dec 6, CNN reports: Insurance company halts plan to put time limits on coverage for anesthesia during surgery
Well...maybe. My money says there will be short term PR stunts, followed by business as usual. Very likely the insurance guys will subtley encourage a redirection of public anger, till the American public is inevitably distracted by something else. Our upcoming presidential admimistration is literally the best thing corporations could ask for, in that sense. Favorable to corps while at the same time distracting from what the corps are up to.
 
Ok, that's horrific. I have the good fortune of being at the other end of the spectrum, Horizon BC/BS who can't seem to be happier to provide comprehensive coverage.

I like the idea of single payer, but one (and only one) thing that Rush Limbaugh asked rhetorically that struck a chord with me: "What does government actually run *well*?"

Im.afraid if our bureaucracy gets ahold of it, it'll actually be a worse nightmare

There's already a bureaucracy ahold of it, and we don't get to vote for who's in charge. I'm not seeing the downside of such a change.

Bear in mind we're not looking for government RUN healthcare, just government paid.
 
Well...maybe. My money says there will be short term PR stunts, followed by business as usual. Very likely the insurance guys will subtley encourage a redirection of public anger, till the American public is inevitably distracted by something else. Our upcoming presidential admimistration is literally the best thing corporations could ask for, in that sense. Favorable to corps while at the same time distracting from what the corps are up to.
Even MAGA voters may notice that Trump is filling his administration with CEOs.
 
No, it proves that the threat of violence made an evil insurance company shut up and pay for health care:
Early morning, Dec 4, Brian Thompson is killed in the street on his way to an investors meeting
Afternoon, Dec 6, CNN reports: Insurance company halts plan to put time limits on coverage for anesthesia during surgery
You are buying the PR. Insurance companies were basically trying to match payment to medicare payment terms. When they try to combat fraud and overpayment, people don't want it.

To put things in perspective, you're from denmark correct? Average salary of anesthesiologist in the USA is just about 4x that of your country. And they still find a way to convince people they are unfairly compensated here.
 
You are buying the PR. Insurance companies were basically trying to match payment to medicare payment terms. When they try to combat fraud and overpayment, people don't want it.

To put things in perspective, you're from denmark correct? Average salary of anesthesiologist in the USA is just about 4x that of your country. And they still find a way to convince people they are unfairly compensated here.
If you believe that crap sandwich, go ahead and consume it.

The health insurance industry is a tapeworm on patient America.
 
Notice that rdwight is pointing out another one of the benefits of single-payer healthcare (Denmark) unlike healthcare for profit (USA)! :)
 
Ridiculous to compare it with the prison camp guards, but strangely, at the Nuremburg trials, that was an accepted excuse for the >eight million card-carrying members of National Socialists Workers Party in WWII Germany. Only two hundred officers (=the
decision makers) were hanged.
And which do you think would be a better analogy for the CEO of a health insurance company that maximizes shareholder profits by denying coverage to those who need it the most ,i.e. people who are dying (or whose family members are dying)- camp guard, or decision maker?

The idea that someone like Brian Thompson was a mere cog in the machine is simply ridiculous.
 
If you believe that crap sandwich, go ahead and consume it.
It's perfectly true that the average American anesthesiologist pulls around $400,000 per year, and the Euros under single payer pull 1/4th or less than that. I mean, you can google that ◊◊◊◊, man.
The health insurance industry is a tapeworm on patient America.
Yes it is, but there's more than one.

The reimbursement companies are milking it like a fat cow. That's because it is a fat ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ cow. Fixing the problem is multifaceted, not just the insurers. Switch to single payer today, and the cost would spiral upwards. Its still a multi trillion per year behemoth. Those bills don't vanish.

We'd have to overhaul our whole society to make it work like the single payer nations. Cut the rates of medical workers, from doctors to nurses, will be freaking half to 75% to get in line with the single payer model. Malpractice insurance is a huge bleed; we'd have to slash attorney fees to be in line with their working model, too. There's a lot of lawyers who would not be happy to hear that. Multi million dollar payouts from juries and settlements for pain and suffering would have to be ended, too (they don't really exist in single payer systems, either).

Nothing about this is just the insurance providers. It's a system overhaul, where the days of Americans making north of $100k per year would be a thing of the past. You want the good parts of their system? You need to absorb the bad, too.

Serious question: how many Americans in the north of a quarter million a year income bracket will be on board with their massive salary cut to make this work?
Supply and demand. More of a thing brings the price down.
Are you vaguely familiar with the US? We do the opposite. Massive medical industry, massive costs.
 
Who cares if most Americans who are in the quarter million a year income bracket are happy or not? If the doctors, nurses, lawyers, etc. don't like it then what are they going to do? Quit? Move to....oh wait all other countries are the same. So they'd, uh, I guess....do ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ nothing? Accept it and move on? That's part of the point.

I agree with you that it would take a major overhaul. I don't agree that the overhaul should be a deterrent but a motivator. Those same 6 digit earners will save in the same way everyone else saves. They might have to change their lifestyles a bit, but I won't shed a tear. Put the money back in the hands of the lower and middle classes.
 
First off, what are you basing their rejection percentage on? And does it even purport to consider plan differences? I do not take this stuff as given, so to even concede this common argument I'd like to see what it is based on.

Also for all the conversation on denial rates, the rate of appeals for denials seems to be at .1%. Which matches my experience of doctors prescribing whatever a patient wants, or the most expensive option because the friction lands on insurance, not them. So why not?

I'm simply not going to engage with this anymore. If you want to simp for the insurance companies, and make excuses for their ridiculous profits and absurd costs and fees then go right ahead but I won't be arguing it with you. You're not changing your mind, and I'm not changing mine. If you're happy with what's happening then you and I have no common ground.
 
Who cares if most Americans who are in the quarter million a year income bracket are happy or not? If the doctors, nurses, lawyers, etc. don't like it then what are they going to do? Quit? Move to....oh wait all other countries are the same. So they'd, uh, I guess....do ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ nothing? Accept it and move on? That's part of the point.

I agree with you that it would take a major overhaul. I don't agree that the overhaul should be a deterrent but a motivator. Those same 6 digit earners will save in the same way everyone else saves. They might have to change their lifestyles a bit, but I won't shed a tear. Put the money back in the hands of the lower and middle classes.
Couldn't agree more, bro. I just like to shine a light on it so everyone gets what we are really talking about. A lot of posters think this can be solved in a vacuum. Just as a contractor, I'd lose a sizable chunk of my client base, who suddenly couldn't afford their beach house anymore. My gross would drop substantially, even though I'm not even in the health care industry.
 
Are you telling me the market doesn't work??!?!?
It works perfectly, just not that simply. When some players stick together (doctors, lawyers, whoever) and basically refuse to lower their prices, we get a bit of a cartel sitch. And that's exactly what they do, unabashedly.

Like, we have an obscene glut of lawyers over here. Staggering. Does that mean they lower their costs? Nope, the opposite. Because they refuse, as a group, to work for a dime less.
 
It works perfectly, just not that simply. When some players stick together (doctors, lawyers, whoever) and basically refuse to lower their prices, we get a bit of a cartel sitch. And that's exactly what they do, unabashedly.

That totally sounds like something functioning working...
 
That totally sounds like something functioning working...
Yup. Your proposal is soooooo twentieth century, relying on ethics in business. Welcome to the 21st.

I was reading recently about Henry Ford putting out his early cars. They started out at the equivalent of about $28,000 in today's dollars. As mass production brought costs down, he kept dropping the costs, to under $10,000 equivalent to today. Our corporate overlords today do the opposite. They keep lowering costs and raising the retail, increasing their bottom line. Brave new world.
 
Yup. Your proposal is soooooo twentieth century, relying on ethics in business. Welcome to the 21st.

I was recommending relying on market forces. Which I'm reliably informed is the only way to achieve the correct result. I'm shocked to find out the invisible hand of the market is not the perfect and reliable process I've been told it is.
 
I was recommending relying on market forces. Which I'm reliably informed is the only way to achieve the correct result. I'm shocked to find out the invisible hand of the market is not the perfect and reliable process I've been told it is.
It is 100% reliable, just not in the outdated model you suggest. Or jokingly mock. Fine line.
 
In Luigi detail news:

The final gavel drop on the gun he used is that it's a 3D print for basically everything but the barrel, slide, and magazine, which are relatively cheap and easy to grab with minimal tracking.

Luigi was said to come from a wealthy family, which is true. Grandpa built a little Maryland empire, and dad took over. Luigi didn't follow in the family businesses. Interestingly, one of the profitable family businesses is Lorien Health Services, providing... you guessed it... insurer reimbursed care.
 
It is 100% reliable, just not in the outdated model you suggest. Or jokingly mock. Fine line.

Except when it fails to account for human nature, you mean? Or a lack of ethics? Or "When some players stick together"?

Sounds bloody marellous. Let's let it dictate everything. What could go wrong..?
 
Except when it fails to account for human nature, you mean? Or a lack of ethics? Or "When some players stick together"?

Sounds bloody marellous. Let's let it dictate everything. What could go wrong..?
It can still work, just needs a bit of regulation and anti-trust/monopoly work done to it. It could stay for-profit, but regulate obscene level profit through progressive taxation. You make more than a quarter mil in the US? Welcome back to 50%+ tax rates. It's actually the simplest solution, and would solve all our sociopathic CEO problems across the board: Fix the tax code and reset the normalcy bar. Easier said than done, but whatever.
 
Couldn't agree more, bro. I just like to shine a light on it so everyone gets what we are really talking about. A lot of posters think this can be solved in a vacuum. Just as a contractor, I'd lose a sizable chunk of my client base, who suddenly couldn't afford their beach house anymore. My gross would drop substantially, even though I'm not even in the health care industry.

But someone would be able to afford those houses, right? They wouldn't just sit vacant and if they did then they'd be torn down and turned into something else. But point taken, you would, as well, have to find ways around something like that. It sucks, it would be tough, but so is 38 million, just over 10% of our country, living in poverty, 650,000 people filing for bankruptcy (more than 60% of all personal bankruptcies) and so on, and so on.

I doubt the effects would end there either. You'd see all sorts of sectors have to change how they operate. As you said, if you're affected then so too would the construction business in general, which would then go to the realty market, etc. etc. Sounds like a damn good time to me.
 
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